Plan to make road signs 'more Irish'

Going Forward

As if our road signs weren't bad enough already, plans are afoot to make them worse:

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/green-light-for-plan-to-make-road-signs-more-irish-29736922.html

The Minister compares the importance of clear road signage on a par with litter such as election posters...........the mind boggles.

We have enough badly placed, incomprehensible road signs without the need for further confusion Leo.

Any thoughts?

bambergbike

TBH I worry more about the text-only warning signs - I'd like to see internationally understood symbols rather than words (in English or Irish) used for safety warnings like "soft margin" or "road flooded ahead" where possible.

Where words are deemed more useful than symbols, I would take the same approach as in these new direction signs and use both languages everywhere. We currently paint GO MALL on the road in the Gaeltacht and SLOW outside of Gaeltacht areas. So people who rarely drive in the Gaeltacht suddenly encounter markings that they have never have seen before when they do. Tourists who are unfamiliar with these roads won't generally have had Irish at school. I did have Irish at school, but I can't say we really covered the finer points of road danger in Connemara. Which is actually the one topic that I later wished we had covered in depth, given that there is no shortage of road danger in Connemara: I've often found myself cycling along knowing that there is a hazard ahead but not quite sure what it might be.

Cookie_Monster

Going Forward wrote: »

Any thoughts?

Just to echo this:

We have enough badly placed, incomprehensible road signs without the need for further confusion Leo.

It seems absurd to me that the minister actually listens to these people. Road signs exist solely to convey information as clearly and simply as possible. The new signs do the opposite of this for 99% of people.

corktina

current signs are fine, we don't have the money to waste on behalf of the promoters of a largely dead language

foggy_lad

If anyone read the article it says that signs would not be replaced immediately but that the new signs coyld be used when required. Also a change in legislation is required before these new signs can be used at all.

I personally think it is a pity and the country's shame that all our road signs are not already bilingual giving the Irish language prominence.

chinwag

Road signs are for conveying vital information to drivers with minimum distraction.

Anything that would make this communication less effective and less clear is not putting road safety as a priority.

Crowding our signposting with two languages, while attempting to give equal prominence to both languages, has to lead to confusion.

Driving can be taxing enough at times, we don't need more distractions.

It's simply not the place to promote the Irish language further.

ProudDUB

chinwag wrote: »

Road signs are for conveying vital information to drivers with minimum distraction.

Anything that would make this communication less effective and less clear is not putting road safety as a priority.

Crowding our signposting with two languages, while attempting to give equal prominence to both languages, has to lead to confusion.

Driving can be taxing enough at times, we don't need more distractions.

It's simply not the place to promote the Irish language further.

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Just to echo this:


It seems absurd to me that the minister actually listens to these people. Road signs exist solely to convey information as clearly and simply as possible. The new signs do the opposite of this for 99% of people.

Would ye two ever shag off with your common sense approach to all this. Reasonableness has no place in an forum discussing Irish transport matters. :P


Utterly ridiculous imo. Conradh na Gaelgie can do all the surveys that they want. It is the Road Safety Authority that the Dept of Transport should be listening to on matters like this and no one else.

Love their line that they are concerned about elderly people not being able to read signs in italics well. But they want to put the safety of the 99% of our population of seniors at risk, just so the one or two percent of them that would read a sign in Irish before they would read it in English, get taken care of? Talk about some seriously effed up logic !


Edit: The line about our seniors was in another article I read on the matter, not the one linked to above. Basically, they were saying that as an old persons eyes deteriorate, they find it harder to read letters with curves in them, like signs in italics, which is how the current Irish signs are written. So they want Irish place names switched the larger regular font and the English ones put in italics.

So the 1% of elderly drivers who speak/read Irish get taken care of, but the other 99% are put in a situ where they will find driving harder. It's madness. Even madder that no one has the balls to stand up to these people & draw a line in the sand when their suggestions are not just impractical, they are down right dangerous ! :mad:

LXFlyer

chinwag wrote: »

Road signs are for conveying vital information to drivers with minimum distraction.

Anything that would make this communication less effective and less clear is not putting road safety as a priority.

Crowding our signposting with two languages, while attempting to give equal prominence to both languages, has to lead to confusion.

Driving can be taxing enough at times, we don't need more distractions.

It's simply not the place to promote the Irish language further.

Bizarrely enough they do seem to manage both in Wales and Scotland without any bother, where both languages get equal prominence.

As long as these signs are rolled out as and when signs fall due for replacement, as opposed to a full scale campaign, I don't see an issue with it.

Days 298

lxflyer wrote: »

Bizarrely enough they do seem to manage both in Wales and S Orlando without any bother, where both languages get equal prominence.

As long as these signs are rolled out as and when signs fall due for replacement, as opposed to a full scale campaign, I don't see an issue with it.

And bizzarely enough we have road signage here that people are used to and we dont care how the Welsh do things, it doesnt mean we must follow suit. I dont even see the Irish when I look at road signs now. Why make it a word search of spot the English. Don't fix what isntt broken.

And if we are replacing them as they fall due, we will have two different road signage types. That makes no sense. Causing confusion where there should be none is a thing only the Government would do.

Irish is dead. This will do nothing to bring it back to life. It will just cause annoyance to most drivers used to the current fonts. There is a standard font for a reason. Drivers get accustomed to them.

When I drive through a Gaeltacht area they have no problem placing having Irish only signage. Even putting Go Mall near bends rather than actually warn the average English only motorist of the actual bend ahead.

Roads should be about driver convenience not language lobbying and publicity.

SparkySpitfire

Come on, have you looked at the signs? You'd want to be a moron to get confused by them. It's just another example of people getting enraged over...well nothing really.

Sheldons Brain

Yet another thread on this started, like we need another one.
There is a lot of nonsense on this issue. There is no more or less Irish or English on these signs than the existing ones.

TBH I worry more about the text-only warning signs - I'd like to see internationally understood symbols rather than words (in English or Irish) used for safety warnings like "soft margin" or "road flooded ahead" where possible.

Absolutely. People are getting confused between placename signs and regulatory signs. The latter should be symbolic in almost every case. Yet they are allowing more text creep in. They've introduced the giant exclamation mark hazard sign and then put plates on these warning of bends and the like that should be addressed by an existing symbolic sign. For regulatory signs the solution to the proper balance between Irish and English is to use a symbol only. In some cases a new symbol is needed, but above all the existing symbols have to be used.

BenShermin

lxflyer wrote: »

Bizarrely enough they do seem to manage both in Wales and Scotland without any bother, where both languages get equal prominence.

As long as these signs are rolled out as and when signs fall due for replacement, as opposed to a full scale campaign, I don't see an issue with it.

Not to mention Belgium! For example if you're driving from Wallonia to Flanders via Brussels, you'd start off encountering road signs in French only, then you'd cross the langauge border and have Dutch only, then you'd get onto a ring road in the Brussels area and have French and Dutch, before going back into Dutch only. How Belgium's motorway system isn't just one big pile up is beyond me

The only problem I have is that English should be alongside Irish on Gaeltacht road signs, if it's going to bilingual across the country then it should be bilingual there too. To suggest that bilingual road signs are dangerous or confusing in any way is just insulting to people's intelligence IMO.

Richard

BenShermin wrote: »

Not to mention Belgium! For example if you're driving from Wallonia to Flanders via Brussels, you'd start off encountering road signs in French only, then you'd cross the langauge border and have Dutch only, then you'd get onto a ring road in the Brussels area and have French and Dutch, before going back into Dutch only. How Belgium's motorway system isn't just one big pile up is beyond me

Especially if you are heading for somewhere with a completely different name like Lille, which is actually Rijsel in Dutch (despite being in France not Belgium).

Jamie2k9

lxflyer wrote: »

Bizarrely enough they do seem to manage both in Wales and Scotland without any bother, where both languages get equal prominence.

As long as these signs are rolled out as and when signs fall due for replacement, as opposed to a full scale campaign, I don't see an issue with it.

In Scotland its just English, on the main primary routes.

I don't think yellow is great for reading at night time, if they do change keep all white names IMO.

That username is already in use.

It's great news, I've been eagerly anticipating this one for a while now. The English names are just poor bastardisations of the original anyway. Bound to raise the blood pressure of a few Little Irelanders here but that's a real bonus.

The new designs will only replace old or damaged signage and will make the English translations easier to read by using mixed case and contrast between colours. They will also greatly reduce the effects of halation that plagues current signage.

Ireland’s dual-language road signs Report and recommendations (PDF)

All and all, a far better design which is safer for motorists and the added bonus of promoting our vibrant and living Irish tongue - the first offical language of the State

spank_inferno

A 'thriving' language at 1.6% of the population in daily usage.

(we say on an english language forum).

n97 mini

I like the new design. I think anglophone monoglots will train themselves to go for the orange text, which I think is a very good idea (i.e. the coloured text).

murphaph

I'm not a fan of bilingual signs. I think they should be in English in predominantly English speaking areas and in Irish in the Gaeltacht. However, this will never happen and to be honest I really like the design shown in the article as it eliminates all caps for English and that awful italic used for Irish. These signs are very similar to the ones in Scotland where they sign bilingually there.

Going Forward

murphaph wrote: »

I'm not a fan of bilingual signs. I think they should be in English in predominantly English speaking areas and in Irish in the Gaeltacht. However, this will never happen and to be honest I really like the design shown in the article as it eliminates all caps for English and that awful italic used for Irish. These signs are very similar to the ones in Scotland where they sign bilingually there.

Have to admit, the one on the left looks worse!

ProudDUB

They both look perfectly fine, when looked at in a picture on an internet forum. But how user friendly and easy to see are they for the person behind the wheel of a car, on a wet/dark/foggy evening in winter?

I'd put money on the yellowish/brown signage on a blue background being used for the town names in English, being A LOT more difficult to read in poor visibility driving conditions, than the white paint on a blue back ground signage.

But who cares about people missing their exits, or swerving to get into the correct lane at the last minute, or causing accidents, as long as the aul cupla focail police are kept happy. That is what REALLY matters on our nations highways and byways, right? :rolleyes:

SparkySpitfire

ProudDUB wrote: »

They both look perfectly fine, when looked at in a picture on an internet forum. But how user friendly and easy to see are they for the person behind the wheel of a car, on a wet/dark/foggy evening in winter?

I'd put money on the yellowish/brown paint on a blue back ground being used for the town names in English, being A LOT more difficult to read a dark, rainy night, than the white paint on a blue back ground.

But who cares about people missing their exits, or swerving to get into the correct lane at the last minute, or causing accidents, as long as the aul cupla focail police are kept happy. That is what REALLY matters on our nations highways and byways, right? :rolleyes:

So you're assuming that they didn't have people test these things out when they were designing the sign?

Cool.

Jamie2k9

ProudDUB wrote: »

They both look perfectly fine, when looked at in a picture on an internet forum. But how user friendly and easy to see are they for the person behind the wheel of a car, on a wet/dark/foggy evening in winter?

I'd put money on the yellowish/brown signage on a blue background being used for the town names in English, being A LOT more difficult to read in poor visibility driving conditions, than the white paint on a blue back ground signage.

But who cares about people missing their exits, or swerving to get into the correct lane at the last minute, or causing accidents, as long as the aul cupla focail police are kept happy. That is what REALLY matters on our nations highways and byways, right? :rolleyes:

My concern exactly.

So you're assuming that they didn't have people test these things out when they were designing the sign?

Cool.

They have not tested them at all, as the article states they have not being out on a public road at night in poor weather conditions.

SparkySpitfire

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

My concern exactly.



They have not tested them at all, as the article states they have not being out on a public road at night in poor weather conditions.

They may have used materials that they know can be seen in the dark, or tested them in a lab environment etc.

Jamie2k9

SparkySpitfire wrote: »

They may have used materials that they know can be seen in the dark, or tested them in a lab environment etc.

If they used a readable material, they wouldn't of picked yellow, where in Europe have yellow motorway signs.....

The NRA didn't come up with the design so hopefully they might cop the problem.

White names are the clearest possible to read in the dark and as safety is supposed to be priority and not satisficing the minority of Irish speakers.

ProudDUB

SparkySpitfire wrote: »

So you're assuming that they didn't have people test these things out when they were designing the sign?

Cool.

Nope. I am not assuming anything. I am going on articles in our national media that this all came about, due to a survey that was done by Conradh na Gaeilge about the importance of having more Irish road signage. Those folks ain't exactly unbiased. Their very own head honcho was going on about our national identity being all tied up in them & making them less British, as if that is all that matters.

If the RSA & the NRA and transport experts don't have a problem with any of this, then neither do I. However, I do have a problem with it, if the safety of our nations roads are compromised due to politics and, politicians falling over themselves to keep a particular voting bloc happy and, to hell with the rest of us.

SparkySpitfire

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

If they used a readable material, they wouldn't of picked yellow, where in Europe have yellow motorway signs.....

The NRA didn't come up with the design so hopefully they might cop the problem.

How do you know if the materials used to make the signs will make the yellow illegible in the dark? Looks like they picked it cos yellow and white were the most contrasted colours to the dark blue.

If you're really concerned you could shoot off an email to voice your concerns, or wait til they (gradually) come out to see if people report problems so they can fix them before they bring out more.

Your concerns might be well founded for sure, but we dunno yet!

SparkySpitfire

ProudDUB wrote: »

Nope. I am not assuming anything. I am going on articles in our national media that this all came about, due to a survey that was done by Conradh na Gaelgie about the importance of having more Irish road signage. Those folks ain't exactly unbiased. Their very own head honcho was going on about our national identity being all tied up in them & making them less British, as if that is all that matters.

If the RSA & the NRA and transport experts don't have a problem with any of this, neither do I. However, I do have a problem with it, if the safety of our nations roads are compromised due to politics and, politicians falling over themselves to keep a particular voting bloc happy and, to hell with the rest of us.

I'd like to give them the benefit of the doubt that they'll be legible. If not, I'll be out with you to get them taken down and replaced!

Jamie2k9

SparkySpitfire wrote: »

How do you know if the materials used to make the signs will make the yellow illegible in the dark? Looks like they picked it cos yellow and white were the most contrasted colours to the dark blue.

If you're really concerned you could shoot off an email to voice your concerns, or wait til they (gradually) come out to see if people report problems so they can fix them before they bring out more.

Your concerns might be well founded for sure, but we dunno yet!

Maybe but it just seems the NRA and RSA had no input at all going by the articles about the signs. Yellow/White names would work on Green backgrounds but can't see it on Blue at all.

SparkySpitfire

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Maybe but it just seems the NRA and RSA had no input at all going by the articles about the signs. Yellow/White names would work on Green backgrounds but can't see it on Blue at all.

Yeah maybe! Sure we'll find out soon enough.

*gets pitchfork ready*

Jamie2k9

SparkySpitfire wrote: »

Yeah maybe! Sure we'll find out soon enough.

*gets pitchfork ready*

Just looking on the roads forum and they have these colours in Cyprus so maybe its workable but they have the yellow in all capitals and its larger than the while signs but of course weather is very different over here.

Sheldons Brain

A 'thriving' language at 1.6% of the population in daily usage.

So it is OK to ignore minorities on a numerical basis. That should save a lot of money not having to run the Gay marriage referendum.

The yellow used here doesn't have to be very yellow, it is just a visual clue as to which one is which.

ahnowbrowncow

That username is already in use. wrote: »

It's great news, I've been eagerly anticipating this one for a while now. The English names are just poor bastardisations of the original anyway. Bound to raise the blood pressure of a few Little Irelanders here but that's a real bonus.

The new designs will only replace old or damaged signage and will make the English translations easier to read by using mixed case and contrast between colours. They will also greatly reduce the effects of halation that plagues current signage.

Ireland’s dual-language road signs Report and recommendations (PDF)

All and all, a far better design which is safer for motorists and the added bonus of promoting our vibrant and living Irish tongue - the first offical language of the State

It's not safer for motorists, more reading means eyes off the road for longer. It's great communicating with you in English, the predominant language of Ireland

That username is already in use.

Not safer for you. When your car careers off a bridge because you were too busy reading the Irish on the new signage, think of me in those last moments.

ahnowbrowncow

That username is already in use. wrote: »

Not safer for you. When your car careers off a bridge because you were too busy reading the Irish on the new signage, think of me in those last moments.

Ah look at you, you're so cute, speaking in your native language

johnmcdnl

bambergbike wrote: »

currently paint GO MALL on the road in the Gaeltacht and SLOW outside of Gaeltacht areas.

Never understood how the law somehow allowed for Irish only signs in the Gaeltacht considering all signs are supposed to give English and Irish equal priority.

There's not much worse than landing in the Gaeltacht when your following only sign posts for somewhere and suddenly getting lost because you don't know the Irish name for the town your heading too. In every English speaking part of the country half the sign is taken up giving the names of places in Irish as well but the same luxury isn't given to us in Gaeltacht areas.

It's always stood out as a double standard that's a stood out to me and no doubt it will be addressed with these new signs.

Richard

johnmcdnl wrote: »

Never understood how the law somehow allowed for Irish only signs in the Gaeltacht considering all signs are supposed to give English and Irish equal priority.

There's not much worse than landing in the Gaeltacht when your following only sign posts for somewhere and suddenly getting lost because you don't know the Irish name for the town your heading too. In every English speaking part of the country half the sign is taken up giving the names of places in Irish as well but the same luxury isn't given to us in Gaeltacht areas.

It's always stood out as a double standard that's a stood out to me and no doubt it will be addressed with these new signs.

Even worse is Irish only warning and information signs. STOP is STOP in most of the world, yet in the Gaeltacht it's "STAD".

murphaph

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

The NRA didn't come up with the design so hopefully they might cop the problem.

Lol. The NRA have been responsible for some of the worst road signage ever unleashed on a public road. I'm not at all even in favour of bilingual signage. I think however that as we have it and it seems here to stay that we should do it as well as it can be done.

If the yellow is a problem then of course that should be established and dealt with before proceeding. The current bilingual signage is in my opinion at least a step back from what we had 20 years ago. The introduction of italics for Irish was a huge mistake done for no apparent reason other than to make the signs look a bit less British.

Scotland by the way is using an almost identical approach even on some A roads where the background is dark green. It can't be that bad or the UK authorities would have put a stop to it. They do actually design and test things there.

What's wrong with our current signs is that they were modified from design classics by people who clearly had no idea about design. The proposed signage is at least part of a holistic approach by a designer who cares.

n97 mini

The eye is most sensitive to yellow/orange, hence it's used so much in road markings already. I'm sure it'll be just as sensitive to it when it's on a road sign.

Richard wrote: »

Even worse is Irish only warning and information signs. STOP is STOP in most of the world, yet in the Gaeltacht it's "STAD".

You managed to figure it out, so I'm sure others did too.

icdg

I'd ask why its necessary to completely re-design our road signage system to achieve the aim. If the aim is, as stated, simply to give Irish equal prominence, well then fine - use mixed case Transport for both Irish and English with one in white and one in yellow (on green and blue backgrounds)/green (on white backgrounds). That's all thats needed to do to give the two languages equal prominence. Leave all other elements of our current signage system alone.

Instead it looks like we're going to go for a complete redesign of our entire directional signage system and to be honest the new signs will look quite incogriguous alongside the current ones. Given that there are plenty of pre-1977 fingerposts still around on rural roads, some of our present signs may be around for the next forty years and its important, in that context, to make the minimum changes, not go for a complete re-design.

Richard wrote: »

Even worse is Irish only warning and information signs. STOP is STOP in most of the world, yet in the Gaeltacht it's "STAD".

The "Stad" version is actually illegal, it is supposed to be "STOP" even in Gaeltacht areas.

Carawaystick

I think there's 2 issues, here: having irish and english place names; and changing the non-text signage.

I think the non-text signage isues are a different issue and outside the scope of the main topic.

So. There seem to be 2 (main) issues re the irish text. The Font and Colour.
The font should be chosen to maximise legibility, and it seems a mixed case font is best for this.
that Colour seems the best method to differentiate different languages in the same alphabet. ( it seems abandoing celtic script was a poor choice)
So colour differentiation at night should be somewhat important, but there are different lightings used, mainly low pressure sodium ( those yellow lights, which are pretty much monochromatic) high pressure sodium, which are less monochromatic.
I'd pick a colour ( if possible) which is clearly visible and different under low pressure sodium.

People get worked up about An Daingean Ui Chuis
and
An Baile Chlar being hard to find for Bearloirs.

These places are in the Gaeltacht and get grants and govt supports for being in the Gaeltacht. They need to decide if they want to hunt with the hounds or run with the hares.... It's not a road signage issue though

foggy_lad

I get really annoyed about these people changing perfectly good Irish place names like "Nás na Ríoch" which was first shortened to "Nás na Rí" at great expense, then totally bastardised and Anglicised by changing it to "An Nás".

these cretins have no faith in the national school system if they think that it is too difficult to teach children placenames like this, They should not be allowed infect the Irish language with any more of their poisonous "easy to learn" Irish. We are not simpletons!

Cookie_Monster

^^does Irish not / should it not evolve and change like any other language?

mackerski

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

^^does Irish not / should it not evolve and change like any other language?

Evolution of place names would happen by people, ideally the people who live in those places, of their own volition, beginning to use different names. This has happened to some extent in the shift to the English names, even if you don't like where those names came from.

The shifts in many Irish names, though, seem to be less a case of evolution and a bit more like Intelligent Design...

foggy_lad

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

^^does Irish not / should it not evolve and change like any other language?

Yes but that happens over hundreds and thousands of years. No language should be interfered with or bastardised just to make place names easier to spell or read and certainly not so that the children don't have to put as much effort into learning the language.

Red Nissan

mackerski wrote: »

The shifts in many Irish names, though, seem to be less a case of evolution and a bit more like Intelligent Design...

That's actually a good subject too. One of my bugs is old Irish names being confused for English names and "Irishized" or basterdized ~ it's also a reason why I think road signs should only be in English.

AND even more importantly, Sat Nav maps only in English too. These systems need to have a high safety value, we are all travelling at speeds that would have taken our licenses away few years ago, safety has to be first.

In suburban areas, tourist areas and areas where traffic is not in high speeds, then by all means have other languages, including Polish which arguably deserves to be the second spoken language of Ireland.

K.Flyer

Sorry if a little off topic, but saying we have no money for Garda stations or money to spend on Health or Education but the government are considering spending money on this idea is in my opinion, an utter joke and insulting to the Irish people who are drastically affected by the severe cuts and taxes imposed over recent years.

Banjoxed

icdg wrote: »

I'd ask why its necessary to completely re-design our road signage system to achieve the aim. If the aim is, as stated, simply to give Irish equal prominence, well then fine - use mixed case Transport for both Irish and English with one in white and one in yellow (on green and blue backgrounds)/green (on white backgrounds). That's all thats needed to do to give the two languages equal prominence. Leave all other elements of our current signage system alone.

Instead it looks like we're going to go for a complete redesign of our entire directional signage system and to be honest the new signs will look quite incogriguous alongside the current ones. Given that there are plenty of pre-1977 fingerposts still around on rural roads, some of our present signs may be around for the next forty years and its important, in that context, to make the minimum changes, not go for a complete re-design.



The "Stad" version is actually illegal, it is supposed to be "STOP" even in Gaeltacht areas.

This is the most sensible comment yet but sure reinventing the wheel is what Official Ireland is all about.

Banjoxed

foggy_lad wrote: »

Yes but that happens over hundreds and thousands of years. No language should be interfered with or bastardised just to make place names easier to spell or read and certainly not so that the children don't have to put as much effort into learning the language.

Yes and hardly anyone of my age group has any fluency in it or indeed love for it because of the heavy handed way it was taught to us. But sure isn't that the way it should be :rolleyes

murphaph

K.Flyer wrote: »

Sorry if a little off topic, but saying we have no money for Garda stations or money to spend on Health or Education but the government are considering spending money on this idea is in my opinion, an utter joke and insulting to the Irish people who are drastically affected by the severe cuts and taxes imposed over recent years.

There is no suggestion by anyone to begin a mass replacement of signage here. Only life expired or brand new signage would be affected. It's just a shame nobody thought of taking a holistic approach to designing a coherent and "Irish" road signage system before we'd embarked on such a massive road building programme. Many signs will not go life expired for 30 years+ at this stage, so it will take a long time for any system to become omnipresent.

Bellview

murphaph wrote: »

There is no suggestion by anyone to begin a mass replacement of signage here. Only life expired or brand new signage would be affected. It's just a shame nobody thought of taking a holistic approach to designing a coherent and "Irish" road signage system before we'd embarked on such a massive road building programme. Many signs will not go life expired for 30 years+ at this stage, so it will take a long time for any system to become omnipresent.

Even though there is no suggestion from here I would not be surprised if CNG did not have a different view. Your point on being forward looking when planning has always been a gap amongst the decision makers in this country and unfortunately is not changing. Logic seems to be absent in these circles a lot of the time
The folks I have pity for are the tourist when around west kerry and signs in irish and when they see 'go mall' they may be expecting a shopping complex around the corner of the next bad bend..

D.L.R.

"Intensive lobbying by Conradh na Gaeilge could result in road signs being changed to give equal prominence to our two official languages."

Who says Irish and English don't get equal treatment - Irish is ABOVE English ffs. Current situation is a good compromise - Irish gets top billing, but English, the language spoken by most, stands out more.

Also, where is the English language on our stamps, coins etc? Where's the "equal prominance" there?