Proposed Changes to Motorway signs

_Kaiser_

From here:

The National Transport Authority is considering a re-design of Ireland's motorway signs to give a greater emphasis to the Irish language.

Sounds like more nonsense to placate the Irish language brigade to me (but then these people are rural, generally older and there's the EU and local elections coming up...)

Personally I think that our current signs are fine for the most part insofar as design - although a lot of the newer ones seem to perform very badly at night, you nearly have to be on top of them to see what they say.

If I was going to redesign them then I'd be removing Irish altogether personally.

biko

However, there will be no extra cost to taxpayers, as the new signs will only go up whenever existing ones need replacing.

I'm all for it as tourists love and take pics of our road/street signs, maybe not the motorway signs mind.


This isn't really a Motors discussion as these threads usually is about the language itself rather than the signs but feck it, let's see where it goes.

bazz26

Another important strategy achieved from Leo the clown.

CiniO

There's hardly any country in EU with such good motorway signage as Ireland.
Congratulations to anyone who intends to mess up perfectly good thing.

_Kaiser_

biko wrote: »

.

Yep, don't buy that either. Someone will no doubt be paid (a fortune) to decide on the colours/fonts to be used. :rolleyes:

flutered

sent the cost of it across the cabinet table to bottler, the hse is about to implode due to lack of cash.

biko

So, is anyone opposed to these signs on any other basis than "I'm English speaking and Irish is a dead/stupid language"?

fenris

They need to leave enough space for a certain pub to add "Glencullen" to the signs

CiniO

biko wrote: »

So, is anyone opposed to these signs on any other basis than "I'm English speaking and Irish is a dead/stupid language"?

Travelling high speeds on motorways, you don't have too much time to read the signs.
Having names in one language is enough.
For me it wouldn't matter if the name is in English or Irish. But putting double names doesn't really make sense to me.

_Kaiser_

biko wrote: »

So, is anyone opposed to these signs on any other basis than "I'm English speaking and Irish is a dead/stupid language"?

How about that adding place names in an (effectively) foreign language AND in different colours is likely to make the sign in general harder to read - especially at motorway speeds and/or where there's multiple destinations indicated.

With something like road signs, clarity is paramount I think

dantastic

I have a pain in my face from reading that and seeing the proposed signs.

They are just cluttered.

_Kaiser_

Here's a mock-up that Varadkar tweeted apparently:



Proves my point IMO as it's FAR too busy, harder to read (font used) and the wrong language is given prominence which is an issue (not because it's a "dead language" etc), but because that's not what most of the places are known by!

Something else just occurred to me too... if these are only to go up as old ones are replaced, would that mean you could have a stretch of road with completely different signs every few hundred metres/kms?

Mycroft H

Can the gaelgoirs not leave well enough alone? Irish Rail in a similar situation had to change their station signage after the gaelgoirs complained that the font wasn't big enough. A monumental waste of money.

ardmacha

These signs seem to have provided an opportunity for the shoneen brigade to try and argue for a bit more cultural extermination. They don't have any more Irish than previous designs, they merely substitute an italic font which is not so easy to read with a different colour. Not a bad idea, but not really worth a lot of effort either.

biko

This is the proposal.


How do the signs in Wales look?

Nm, found one

Mycroft H

I'm just against the spending of public money when the current signage is more than adequate.

There is enough cutbacks to essential public services without us having to replace perfectly good signs across the entire motorway network (and where is this going to stop? It will be on regional roads next...)

biko

BX 19 wrote: »

I'm just against the spending of public money when the current signage is more than adequate.

There is enough cutbacks to essential public services without us having to replace perfectly good signs across the entire motorway network (and where is this going to stop? It will be on regional roads next...)

But there isn't any extra cost?
"However, there will be no extra cost to taxpayers, as the new signs will only go up whenever existing ones need replacing."
Maybe the signs need to be a bit larger and more letters etc (and this will add cost) but they won't throw them up until the old sign needs replacing.

visual

There is only so much space on a sign and driving you only have a short window to read it.

Doesn't make any sence to double the information in a language that most of us can't read and hardly ever use. Even those who are really into the Irish language speak and read english perfectly.

We are only short of putting other European languages on the signs too.

The Real B-man

I Think the Current Ones are Fine IMO The Yellow is abit Harsh and i dont think they would be as Relfective as Current Ones especially Reading in bad Weather.

bear1

To be fair, it does say that they will only be used if signs need to be replaced.

Anjobe

Changing the English place names to use lower case with an initial capital is sensible though. In fact I'm surprised the signs weren't designed like this to begin with - its been known since the fifties that people recognise words much more quickly when they are written like this rather than as all upper case.

djimi

I have absolutely no issue with signage being in both languages, but in fairness what we have now (with the Irish name above the English name and in italics) is perfectly fine.

We cant afford to be wasting money on something as ridiculous as this to be fair. There are 101 other things that could be better served getting whatever amount of money this will cost (and of course its going to cost money; nothing happens for free).

stoneill

I like them.

b318isp

If it ain't broke...

This suggestion is a complete waste of money and time; and of no practical value.

It BeeMee

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

I notice how the "Toll" warning is less conspicious...

H3llR4iser

Nonsense - they're good the way they are. The new ones are too cluttered and it looks like they use a slightly smaller font for the English names. Also, I reckon the density of the writing - as well as the lowercase letters - could make them unreadable until very close at night.

Anan1

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

Sounds like more nonsense to placate the Irish language brigade to me (but then these people are rural, generally older and there's the EU and local elections coming up...)

D'ya think? Most of the ones I know are young and from Dublin.

stimpson

As someone who works in UI design, I think they would be a disaster. Too cluttered, ugly font, using a different colour font for no reason (it's not being used to convey any new info).

The biggest problem is that they will be used in conjunction with existing signage. The most important thing in UI design is consistency.

On the plus side, using J to denote Junction is a good idea, but that could be used with the current signage.

Lissavane

If the samples tweeted by Varadkar are accurate in colour representation, then I think the proposed new version makes the English language name more striking and legible than before. The eye is drawn foremost to the white lettering against a dark blue background, rather than scanning a smorgasbord of letters in the same colour but different fonts.

There's a reason why police forces use white letters on blue for their own signage - easy comprehension.

I agree with an earlier poster who mentioned studies showing that people comprehend words prefaced with a capital letter, better than words entirely capitalised.

Anjobe

H3llR4iser wrote: »

Also, I reckon the density of the writing - as well as the lowercase letters - could make them unreadable until very close at night.

It may seem counter intuitive but the opposite is actually true. Lowercase words have a distinctive shape that allows them to be recognised more quickly than the same word in upper case, which the reader must scan to identify the individual letters.

Cantona's Collars

The average cost of manufacturing & erecting a new motorway sign is about €15k,if they decide to change these signs the cheap way is simply peeling off the old lettering or putting a pre-made patch of reflective with the new lettering over the old writing.Of course we all know which option will be taken.

RandomAccess

It BeeMee wrote: »

I notice how the "Toll" warning is less conspicious...

Noticed that, and also the Junction number is also smaller and harder to read with that atrocious background colour.

If this abomination gets approved its certainly going to cost more money, nothing comes for free! And if they are phased in as has been suggested we will have a horrible mishmash of signage littering our roads for years.

The sad thing is, that there is a ridiculous number of commenters on broadsheet and other media who are clamouring for the new design.
Their argument has nothing to do with readability of a motorway sign, I don't know if they even looked at the images, perhaps they don't even drive, they just read that it puts more emphasis on Irish and nothing else matters.
You can find them pretty easily, they all have their names as Gaeilge!

Lissavane

RandomAccess wrote: »

You can find them pretty easily, they all have their names as Gaeilge!

The Minister seems quite keen on the new signs. I haven't seen him style himself Ó Bhaireadchar in press releases!

Patrickheg

zerks wrote: »

The average cost of manufacturing & erecting a new motorway sign is about €15k,if they decide to change these signs the cheap way is simply peeling off the old lettering or putting a pre-made patch of reflective with the new lettering over the old writing.Of course we all know which option will be taken.

Have a read of the article, no one is suggesting going out and replacing all the signs in the morning, if the new format is to be used it will be on a replacement basis where a sign is due for replacement / s new sign is being erected

swarlb

Anan1 wrote: »

D'ya think? Most of the ones I know are young and from Dublin.

A question from an aul fella, who after 12 odd years in school cannot read or write Irish, to the degree that I'm writing this and understanding what I am typing.
And, who's wife is English, and who cannot read, write or understand Irish, and my 2 small kids, who I am unable to help with their homework.
This is the question....
Do you know of anyone, old or young, who is Irish, who CANNOT read or understand road signs written in English, and who can only navigate the country or city, by following the signs written in IRISH.
I noticed this once, when I was stuck on an motorway off ramp (accident ahead) and I was 'between' the 2 signs that indicate the type of vehicles permitted to use the motorway. I sat there looking at the big blue sign, written only in Irish, and in all honesty, if my life depended on it, I would not be able to understand what it meant.

_Kaiser_

Patrickheg wrote: »

Have a read of the article, no one is suggesting going out and replacing all the signs in the morning, if the new format is to be used it will be on a replacement basis where a sign is due for replacement / s new sign is being erected

Which (as I and others above have also said) will lead to a complete mess with 2 different standards being used on the same stretch of motorway... thus making things even MORE confusing than these new signs alone threaten to do.

It's unnecessary and a complete waste of money (€15k a sign?!! :eek:), and it's not like we don't have other public services (or even motoring ones) that should be a lot higher up the list than indulging someone's fantasies about the Irish language - especially when the current system (like the license plates before it) works just fine as it is.

Andrew_Doran

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Andrew_Doran

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dh0011

There are a lot of you here seem biased against the Irish language. It is also obvious that those of you complaining about the cost of these signs didnt read the article in the OP. It really annoys me when people start attacking the language for no reason. Perhaps these people should go up to the north and join up with Ian Paisley.

challengemaster

dh0011 wrote: »

There are a lot of you here seem biased against the Irish language. It is also obvious that those of you complaining about the cost of these signs didnt read the article in the OP. It really annoys me when people start attacking the language for no reason. Perhaps these people should go up to the north and join up with Ian Paisley.

Or perhaps the gaelgoirs can realise the majority of the country have nor want no interest in the Irish language, and fúck off trying to force it down everyones neck at every chance possible.

dh0011

Well the constitution of this country says Irish is the first official language of the state.This was brought about by a vote of the Irish people. So if you don't like it you can **** off to another country.

challengemaster

Oh and FYI, the whole "I'm more Irish than you because I speak the language" isn't helping your case.

dh0011

At no point did I say I am more Irish than anyone else. Perhaps you are a stupid person and in school were not very good at Irish and this has lead you to resent it but please don't put words in my mouth, which I didn't say.

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime

me arse to the whole irish speaking muck.

if i cant use it in another country to benefit me then i couldn't give a flying shoite.

Try teach people to speak correct English before trying to change anything at all.

as for the motorway signs, all they do for me is "ooooh they look peerdy" the colors look different making them kinda cool but other than that i hate them and think they are a crap idea.

In the UK they use the signs that are here for motorways and in most of the EU too.

and tbh its a waste of time with these signs since people either already know where they are going or everyone uses the sat nav / smartphone thus leaving signs useless anyway.

but i say leave them as are, simple and get to the point

challengemaster

dh0011 wrote: »

Perhaps you are a stupid person

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

HeidiHeidi

Lissavane wrote: »

If the samples tweeted by Varadkar are accurate in colour representation, then I think the proposed new version makes the English language name more striking and legible than before. The eye is drawn foremost to the white lettering against a dark blue background, rather than scanning a smorgasbord of letters in the same colour but different fonts.

There's a reason why police forces use white letters on blue for their own signage - easy comprehension.

I agree with an earlier poster who mentioned studies showing that people comprehend words prefaced with a capital letter, better than words entirely capitalised.

Have to say I disagree with this.... in those pics that were posted, my eye was drawn to the yellow Irish names first. And while I'm a big fan of the Irish language, and can make a passable fist of speaking it (or used to be able to anyway), if I'm hurtling down a motorway at 120kph then I'd quite like my eye to be drawn to the most familiar/most used version of a placename IN CAPITALS - ie as is shown on current signage.

I vote no.

ninty9er

Forget about removing Irish arguments, irrespective of who uses it, it still has legal precedence over English

I'd be more inclined to leave the font as it was, change the Irish and road names to yellow and overlay toll and M8 on the continuance of the example and overlay R639 on the slip road.

dh0011

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »

me arse to the whole irish speaking muck.

if i cant use it in another country to benefit me then i couldn't give a flying shoite.

Try teach people to speak correct English before trying to change anything at all.

as for the motorway signs, all they do for me is "ooooh they look peerdy" the colors look different making them kinda cool but other than that i hate them and think they are a crap idea.

In the UK they use the signs that are here for motorways and in most of the EU too.

and tbh its a waste of time with these signs since people either already know where they are going or everyone uses the sat nav / smartphone thus leaving signs useless anyway.

but i say leave them as are, simple and get to the point

Did you do pass or foundation English for your leaving certificate? I like how you describe Irish speakers as muck. This includes people who were born in Gaeltacht areas. You call them muck because of where they were born. There are a lot of people who speak Irish varying from Sean Og O'hAlpin to Dara O' Briain are these muck too?

Just because you don't give a flying ****e about it doesnt mean it should be banned. I dont like soccer so should I be able to object to a sign for a soccer field being put up?

We will see how well the roads would work without signs.

challengemaster wrote: »

I have enough friends besides you who hate your own history and culture.

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

The constitutional convention found no reason to change the articles relating to language. Also, most of the constitution was written in 1936. Does this mean we should throw the vast majority of the constitution away.

Anyways it is late and I shall now retire to bed. I think that most of you against the language have a relatively low educational attainment. I can tell as your writing is poor. I would encourage you to spend some time studying various subjects. When you have educated yourself a bit better we can have an adult discussion on the matter, For now I say oiche mhaith,

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime

dh0011 wrote: »

Did you do pass or foundation English for your leaving certificate? I like how you describe Irish speakers as muck. This includes people who were born in Gaeltacht areas. You call them muck because of where they were born. There are a lot of people who speak Irish varying from Sean Og O'hAlpin to Dara O' Briain are these muck too?

Just because you don't give a flying ****e about it doesnt mean it should be banned. I dont like soccer so should I be able to object to a sign for a soccer field being put up?

We will see how well the roads would work without signs.

Me bollox. What i did for English has nothing to do with this but for the record I got a B2 in honors level English.

I never called Irish speaking people or people who grew up in the areas muck.

I called the language itself muck, not the people or inventors of it.

I did not say ban the language

I did not say remove all motorway signs. i actually said leave them as are.

I spoke to Dara O briain and the other day in English.

Stop twisting words or making out what people are saying to be different to what was actually said.

And if my writing is poor tonight, it is due to the several alcoholic beverages I have consumed very recently.

Hotblack Desiato

dh0011 wrote: »

The constitutional convention found no reason to change the articles relating to language.

They weren't allowed discuss it, for an obvious reason.

Also, most of the constitution was written in 1936. Does this mean we should throw the vast majority of the constitution away.

Yes. It's not fit for purpose. It perpetuates Dev's fake ideal of a holy catholic gaelic Ireland that never really existed, and we certainly don't want today. We are the most theocratic state in the Western world.