Divis additional HD services: 10 December 2013

mrdtv2010

Just go to the Digital UK postcode checker and, topically, enter UTV's Belfast postcode. COM7 HD launches on 10 December 2013 from Divis. ERP is 10.5kW, E33.

Souriau

mrdtv2010 wrote: »

Just go to the Digital UK postcode checker and, topically, enter UTV's Belfast postcode. COM7 HD launches on 10 December 2013 from Divis. ERP is 10.5kW, E33.

Have they been testing the signal as I did not notice it?
Thanks for the info so I will keep an eye on this and hope to get some info via TSReader

Peter Rhea

Better than the ~4 kW that's appeared in documents before.

Rick_

Tests for the new MUX haven't started yet but probably will soon if it's launching in a month. I presume that BBC FOUR HD, BBC NEWS HD, CBeebies HD and Al Jazeera HD will be launching on 10th December 2013 on the new MUX and BBC THREE HD and CBBC HD will be taking over from BBC Red Button HD at the same time?

Will have to delete the SD ones and replace them with the HD channels instead.

Mr Cumulonimbus

Link to Digital UK for detailed info on postcode BT7 1EB (UTV address). Holding the cursor over the channel frequency number gives the relevant ERP output.

http://www.digitaluk.co.uk/coveragechecker/main/trade/BT7+1EB/NA/0/pjnebl3nq3k9c1plg93f6qa1o1

With Mux 2 from Three Rock also now on 33, this new mux may not be available to some.

mrdtv2010

Mr Cumulonimbus wrote: »

Link to Digital UK for detailed info on postcode BT7 1EB (UTV address). Holding the cursor over the channel frequency number gives the relevant ERP output.

http://www.digitaluk.co.uk/coveragechecker/main/trade/BT7+1EB/NA/0/pjnebl3nq3k9c1plg93f6qa1o1

With Mux 2 from Three Rock also now on 33, this new mux may not be available to some.

Exactly. The coverage of both is likely to be clipped in South and East Down as these frequencies are not the old PSB frequencies which are the only ones which are mutually protected.

Rick_

The NI Mini Mux for RTÉ is only 2KW and I can receive it perfectly fine in Armagh. The new COM HD MUX is 10.5KW so I'm not anticipating any problems in a months time when I go to tune it in (even though it is on C33 and that was the worst one to get a signal on pre-DSO due to our location and low signal)

TAFKAlawhec

Paddy C wrote: »

The NI Mini Mux for RTÉ is only 2KW and I can receive it perfectly fine in Armagh. The new COM HD MUX is 10.5KW so I'm not anticipating any problems in a months time when I go to tune it in (even though it is on C33 and that was the worst one to get a signal on pre-DSO due to our location and low signal)

The NIMM uses a much more rugged transmission configuration however compared to the COM7 multiplex which as far as I can see will be the same as the BBCB HD multiplex.

IIRC, at its maximum ERP the NIMM from Black Mountain would, excluding co-channel interference, have roughly the same coverage area as the BBCA and D3&4 multiplex with an ERP of around 30kW.

Coverage might also be restricted a bit towards the north west as 2RN Mux 2 from Holywell Hill is also on E33.

Also interesting to see details of coverage of the local Belfast Mux also appearing on the checker. 5kW max ERP looks interesting for them, but I assume this is significantly directional.

Digifriendly

Paddy C wrote: »

The NI Mini Mux for RTÉ is only 2KW and I can receive it perfectly fine in Armagh. The new COM HD MUX is 10.5KW so I'm not anticipating any problems in a months time when I go to tune it in (even though it is on C33 and that was the worst one to get a signal on pre-DSO due to our location and low signal)

Out of interest do you live in the City of Armagh itself or outside? When I lived on the Markethill Road I could get perfect Channel 5 analogue from Black Mountain.

Rick_

Armagh City. I remember visiting my sisters house around 2000 and noticing she was getting crystal clear Channel 5 on analogue and wondering why we weren't. We didn't live that far from her but her house was on a hill so I assumed it to be that. Our Channel 5 was watchable but not great, but then we got the masthead amplifier on and it came in quite well but still not as clear as my sisters house. Not that it matters now, but back then it was all we had and that's what we made do with!

Our RTÉ was always very strong, the installer said at the time it was the best reception of RTÉ he had seen around the town, which was strange considering we were low down compared to other areas that were higher up but could only get alright signals.

Not that it matters now with DSO, we can get everything perfectly and long may it continue!

mrdtv2010

TAFKAlawhec wrote: »

The NIMM uses a much more rugged transmission configuration however compared to the COM7 multiplex which as far as I can see will be the same as the BBCB HD multiplex.

IIRC, at its maximum ERP the NIMM from Black Mountain would, excluding co-channel interference, have roughly the same coverage area as the BBCA and D3&4 multiplex with an ERP of around 30kW.

Coverage might also be restricted a bit towards the north west as 2RN Mux 2 from Holywell Hill is also on E33.

Also interesting to see details of coverage of the local Belfast Mux also appearing on the checker. 5kW max ERP looks interesting for them, but I assume this is significantly directional.

The NIMM looks roughly like a 50kW DVB-T1 transmission. The new COM7HD transmissions are using the conventional HD T2 mode in the UK and therefore have C/N ~ 20dB. However with all those high gain aerials installed the service area will be extended but those outside the DPSA will get interference from Irish and Scottish transmitters.

FREETV

mrdtv2010 wrote: »

The NIMM looks roughly like a 50kW DVB-T1 transmission. The new COM7HD transmissions are using the conventional HD T2 mode in the UK and therefore have C/N ~ 20dB. However with all those high gain aerials installed the service area will be extended but those outside the DPSA will get interference from Irish and Scottish transmitters.

The power rating of 10,500 watts still seems very low indeed for even a Com Mux. Will people in Drogheda and Duleek be able to receive the new Multiplex with high gain aerials?

Peter Rhea

FREETV wrote: »

Will people in Drogheda and Duleek be able to receive the new Multiplex with high gain aerials?

As already noted above, Three Rock mux 2 is co-channel with COM 7 from Divis.

dharn

Does any of this have any relevance to freesat ?

TAFKAlawhec

mrdtv2010 wrote: »

The NIMM looks roughly like a 50kW DVB-T1 transmission. The new COM7HD transmissions are using the conventional HD T2 mode in the UK and therefore have C/N ~ 20dB. However with all those high gain aerials installed the service area will be extended but those outside the DPSA will get interference from Irish and Scottish transmitters.

The NIMM can be received at around a 15db less S/N ratio in comparison to the BBCA and D3&4 multiplexes so is probably close if not slightly better than the Arqiva & SDN multiplexes from Divis - however it is subject to co-channel interference from the likes of Larne. In my observations the NIMM multiplex from Brougher Mountain of 1kW usually matches the coverage of the three 20kW PSB multiplexes albeit for co-channel interference restricting in some fringe areas by Holywell Hill and (possibly) Three Rock.

TAFKAlawhec

dharn wrote: »

Does any of this have any relevance to freesat ?

The new BBC HD channels that'll become available will likely come on to Freesat in the near future. From a technical POV however the thread refers to reception via terrestrial in/from Northern Ireland.

FREETV

Peter Rhea wrote: »

As already noted above, Three Rock mux 2 is co-channel with COM 7 from Divis.

Surely with a proper setup such as a Triax Unix 100 A that Three Rock will only be coming in the back of some aerials while they are directional aerials pointing towards Divis.
Seems to me to be very convenient for RTE that more and more Divis channels will be wiped out by co-channel interference from 2RN and Three Rock and future Multiplexes.

Peter Rhea

FREETV wrote: »

. . . Seems to me to be very convenient for RTE that more and more Divis channels will be wiped out by co-channel interference from 2RN and Three Rock and future Multiplexes.

How is it 'convenient for RTE'? And how did I just know you would post some nonsense like this?

FREETV

Peter Rhea wrote: »

How is it 'convenient for RTE'? And how did I just know you would post some nonsense like this?

I wouldn't consider it to be nonsense to be honest Peter, they deliberately changed from Channel 54 to 30 so that they could be received from the back of aerials pointing to Divis, a well known fact.
They can block more channels so that they have more of an audience and won't lose out as much on ad revenue.

Peter Rhea

FREETV wrote: »

they deliberately changed from Channel 54 to 30 so that they could be received from the back of aerials pointing to Divis, a well known fact.

Where did you source this 'well known fact'?

FREETV wrote: »

They can block more channels so that they have more of an audience and won't lose out as much on ad revenue.

Yes, those BBC HD channels will be carrying a lot of ads.

TAFKAlawhec

FREETV wrote: »

I wouldn't consider it to be nonsense to be honest Peter, they deliberately changed from Channel 54 to 30 so that they could be received from the back of aerials pointing to Divis, a well known fact.

A reliable source for this "well known fact" that can be found on the internet please?

FREETV wrote: »

They can block more channels so that they have more of an audience and won't lose out as much on ad revenue.

So why have Saorview approved a number of terrestrial & FTA satellite combo receivers and televisions and have a section on their website dedicated to them?

If you would like to receive even more TV channels without subscription, you can combine SAORVIEW with Free-to-Air satellite.
Free-to-Air satellite provides a huge number of UK and European channels and is available to access for anyone with a satellite dish and receiver.
There are now a number of SAORVIEW Approved Combi TVs and boxes which allow you to receive both services together, meaning just one remote control.
For full details of the channels available, the equipment you need and where you can buy it, please click on the panels below.

http://www.saorview.ie/saorview-combi/

Peter Rhea

TAFKAlawhec wrote: »

Also interesting to see details of coverage of the local Belfast Mux also appearing on the checker. 5kW max ERP looks interesting for them, but I assume this is significantly directional.

Seems very restricted according to 'Technical Plan' doc. from July 2013. If I interpret the aerial pattern correctly, Belfast itself is actually in 1 of the most restricted directions (towards Caldbeck, I suppose) & there are plots given for different amounts of declination of the beam.

Fingleberries

Souriau wrote: »

Have they been testing the signal as I did not notice it?
Thanks for the info so I will keep an eye on this and hope to get some info via TSReader

Is this likely to affect reception from Kilkeel on the Freeview lite MUX for north Dublin? Also: Any chance of these appearing on that?
Thanks.

mrdtv2010

Fingleberries wrote: »

Is this likely to affect reception from Kilkeel on the Freeview lite MUX for north Dublin? Also: Any chance of these appearing on that?
Thanks.

No. Completely different set of frequencies from Kilkeel and none of the smaller relays will be carrying the Freeview additional HD channels in the 600Mhz band.

mrdtv2010

Another little gem:

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/static/broadcasting/Web_Ireland_United%20Kingdom%20800MHz%20DTT%20Clearance%20Agreement_06July12.pdf

Mr. Rabbit

Also interesting to see details of coverage of the local Belfast Mux also
appearing on the checker. 5kW max ERP looks interesting for them, but I assume this is significantly directional.

Must be. No mention of it in the coverage at this location (Jordanstown), which is strange as the old low powered multipxes all came in fine here most of the time.

Com 7 is also predicted to be excellent here compared to the 50kw Com muxes (supposedly variable). In reality the com muxes from Divis are perfect, so I wouldn't necessarily go by Digital UK's predictions.

Strangely, the NI mux from Black Mountain has 0 signal strength and 60% quality on one STB and yet, reception is perfect.

FREETV

Mr. Rabbit wrote: »

Must be. No mention of it in the coverage at this location (Jordanstown), which is strange as the old low powered multipxes all came in fine here most of the time.

Com 7 is also predicted to be excellent here compared to the 50kw Com muxes (supposedly variable). In reality the com muxes from Divis are perfect, so I wouldn't necessarily go by Digital UK's predictions.

Strangely, the NI mux from Black Mountain has 0 signal strength and 60% quality on one STB and yet, reception is perfect.

I have the text displayed on the Channel all of the time here near Balbriggan using a Triax Unix 100 for Com 3 on Channel 33.

Peter Rhea

FREETV wrote: »

I have the text displayed on the Channel all of the time here near Balbriggan using a Triax Unix 100 for Com 7 on Channel 33.

What text on what channel?

FREETV

Peter Rhea wrote: »

What text on what channel?

Channel 105 where BBC 3HD will be broadcast along with Ch 73 where CBBC HD will be broadcast and no pixellation or breakup of text. Coming soon new channels from the BBC.
Signal Quality 89% Signal Strength 84% at the moment on an Alba Freeview HD box.

Mr Cumulonimbus

FREETV wrote: »

Channel 105 where BBC 3HD will be broadcast along with Ch 73 where CBBC HD will be broadcast and no pixellation or breakup of text. Coming soon new channels from the BBC.
Signal Quality 89% Signal Strength 84% at the moment on an Alba Freeview HD box.

BBC 3 HD and CBBC HD won't be coming from the COM 7 Mux. They will be on the current PSB3 mux and will replace the HD Red Button service currently there. Frequency is UHF ch 24 from Divis and 39 from Kilkeel.

FREETV

Mr Cumulonimbus wrote: »

BBC 3 HD and CBBC HD won't be coming from the COM 7 Mux. They will be on the current PSB3 mux and will replace the HD Red Button service currently there. Frequency is UHF ch 24 from Divis and 39 from Kilkeel.

I meant the PSB3 BBC Mux, corrected it anyway.