Lets be honest - its mostly about the bike - FTP 2014

tunney

User|Starting FTP|Current FTP|Watts/kg|Target FTP|Target Watts/kg|Test|Unit
Tunney|250|250|3.04|350|5.38|T5+T20*0.95|SRMs


Swim and run are nice but lets be honest you can swim like a fish and be able to stand alone run like a gazelle but if you bike like princess that quits then you're still going to get your a$$ handed to you overall.

Your swim might be a weapon but its likely going to be a butter knife in the scale of the three disciplines. Where as your bike as a weapon can be an AK.

mloc123

That reminds me, I must find my PM and set it up..

woody1

could hire pm i suppose, shop in sligo does it.

j0hn1

User|Starting FTP|Current FTP|Watts/kg|Target FTP|Target Watts/kg|Test|Unit
Tunney|250|250|3.04|350|5.38|T5+T20*0.95|SRMs
J0hn1|282|282|3.66|350|4.79|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow


Not sure about targets really, only using Tacx Flow the past month or that
350w may be a stretch, or may be soft, it's just a nice round number really
Not looking to shift too much weight either so we'll see how it goes

SlowMe

Is there any particular reason the table doesn't track progress across time like the other threads? Oct, Nov, etc. Personally I would find that more interesting to track for myself and to understand how others' training is working out...

Not to open a can of worms but could someone (tunney?) write a few lines on the test procedure?

j0hn1

SlowMe wrote: »

Not to open a can of worms but could someone (tunney?) write a few lines on the test procedure?

What I am doing:

10 mins easy (w/u)
5 * (30 secs hard / 30 secs easy)
**re-calibrate
5 mins TT
10 mins easy
20 mins TT
10 mins easy (c/d)

Take your average power output for the 20 minute TT and multiple by 0.95* = FTP

Nicely packaged into 1 hour


*see tunney's post below about multiplier, may need to be lower dependent on individual (somewhere between 0.90 - 0.95)

sconhome

Worth throwing up the standard test protocol that should be used for FTP testing. I can't remember it and too lazy to go looking for it right now.

Should have refreshed before posting. Question asked already.

tunney

User|Nov|Dec|Jan|Feb|Mar|Apr|May|Jun|Jul|Aug|Current FTP|Watts/kg|Target FTP|Target Watts/kg|Test|Unit
Tunney|250||||||||||250|3.04|350|5.38|T5+T20*0.95|SRMs
J0hn1|282||||||||||282|3.66|350|4.79|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow

tunney

j0hn1 wrote: »

What I am doing:

10 mins easy (w/u)
5 * (30 secs hard / 30 secs easy)
**re-calibrate
5 mins TT
10 mins easy
20 mins TT
10 mins easy (c/d)

Take your average power output for the 20 minute TT and multiple by 0.95 = FTP

Nicely packaged into 1 hour

Its the last bit thats not quite right. The *best* your multipler is will be 0.95. For some its as long as 0.89 in my experience.

(ie If your FTP comes out as 280 but you cannot hold for any actual hour then you need to revise down your multipler. Its important to get this right as I know some people who have utterly borked their IMs by assuming/insisting that the FTP multipler was 0.95 and the IM multipler was 0.8 when it should have been 0.9 and 0.7

pgibbo

Whatever about a 400m or 3k run test every month, there's no way I would do an FTP test every month. They're pure torture. :eek:

I know you expanded the table to accommodate this tunney but would you advocate testing every month?

tunney

pgibbo wrote: »

Whatever about a 400m or 3k run test every month, there's no way I would do an FTP test every month. They're pure torture. :eek:

I know you expanded the table to accommodate this tunney but would you advocate testing every month?

Nope I think its a silly idea. I only retest, or get people to retest, when I think the numbers have changed.

hf4z6sqo7vjngi

User|Nov|Dec|Jan|Feb|Mar|Apr|May|Jun|Jul|Aug|Current FTP|Watts/kg|Target FTP|Target Watts/kg|Test|Unit
Tunney|250||||||||||250|3.04|350|5.38|T5+T20*0.95|SRMs
J0hn1|282||||||||||282|3.66|350|4.79|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
Jackyback|250||||||||||250|3.57|290|4.46|T5+T20*0.925|SRMs


This year going to be less about maximising FTP and more about holding a higher % of FTP on longer bikes and working within a certain range. .925 of the 20min numbers seems more appropriate for me than using .95.

bryangiggsy

tunney wrote: »

I've asked the mods to move the last good few threads to my blog or another post. I just wanted an FTP thread...........

I think the table should just be watts per kg everything else serves no purpose when tracking gains

tunney

bryangiggsy wrote: »

I think the table should just be watts per kg everything else serves no purpose when tracking gains

Is this the cycling forum? Are we all climbers now?
Nope we are not. So it you want to be specific it should be watts/Cda.

I can explain how to measure it if you want.

hf4z6sqo7vjngi

bryangiggsy wrote: »

I think the table should just be watts per kg everything else serves no purpose when tracking gains

Watts per kg not so critical on a flatish IM course.

bryangiggsy

tunney wrote: »

Is this the cycling forum? Are we all climbers now?
Nope we are not. So it you want to be specific it should be watts/Cda.

I can explain how to measure it if you want.

Your alright ill pass.

couerdelion

User|Nov|Dec|Jan|Feb|Mar|Apr|May|Jun|Jul|Aug|Current FTP|Watts/kg|Target FTP|Target Watts/kg|Test|Unit
Tunney|250||||||||||250|3.04|350|5.38|T5+T20*0.95|SRMs
J0hn1|282||||||||||282|3.66|350|4.79|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
Jackyback|250||||||||||250|3.57|290|4.46|T5+T20*0.925|SRMs
Couerdelion|269||||||||||269|2.39|360|4.00|T5+T20*0.925|Power2Max


Big focus on getting the weight down and keeping it there this year. Suffered on the hills racing last year (unsurprisingly) 6 weeks off injured with a holiday and a lot of drinking hasn't helped

MD1983

User|Nov|Dec|Jan|Feb|Mar|Apr|May|Jun|Jul|Aug|Current FTP|Watts/kg|Target FTP|Target Watts/kg|Test|Unit
Tunney|250||||||||||250|3.04|350|5.38|T5+T20*0.95|SRMs
J0hn1|282||||||||||282|3.66|350|4.79|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
Jackyback|250||||||||||250|3.57|290|4.46|T5+T20*0.925|SRMs
Couerdelion|269||||||||||269|2.39|360|4.00|T5+T20*0.925|Power2Max
MD1983|295||||||||||295|3.70|340|4.25|1hr+T20*0.95|SRAM


will retest soon on your protocol and repost, did my 20 mins after 1hr or so on turbo

El Director

User|Nov|Dec|Jan|Feb|Mar|Apr|May|Jun|Jul|Aug|Current FTP|Watts/kg|Target FTP|Target Watts/kg|Test|Unit
Tunney|250||||||||||250|3.04|350|5.38|T5+T20*0.95|SRMs
J0hn1|282||||||||||282|3.66|350|4.79|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
Jackyback|250||||||||||250|3.57|290|4.46|T5+T20*0.925|SRMs
Couerdelion|269||||||||||269|2.39|360|4.00|T5+T20*0.925|Power2Max
MD1983|295||||||||||295|3.70|340|4.25|1hr+T20*0.95|SRAM
El Director|250||||||||||295|3.1|310|4.2|T5+T20*0.95|Quarq

shotgunmcos

MD1983 wrote: »

User|Nov|Dec|Jan|Feb|Mar|Apr|May|Jun|Jul|Aug|Current FTP|Watts/kg|Target FTP|Target Watts/kg|Test|Unit
Tunney|250||||||||||250|3.04|350|5.38|T5+T20*0.95|SRMs
J0hn1|282||||||||||282|3.66|350|4.79|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
Jackyback|250||||||||||250|3.57|290|4.46|T5+T20*0.925|SRMs
Couerdelion|269||||||||||269|2.39|360|4.00|T5+T20*0.925|Power2Max
MD1983|295||||||||||295|3.70|340|4.25|1hr+T20*0.95|SRAM


will retest soon on your protocol and repost, did my 20 mins after 1hr or so on turbo

20 min TT after an hour turbo and you still scored 295w :eek:

hf4z6sqo7vjngi

shotgunmcos wrote: »

20 min TT after an hour turbo and you still scored 295w :eek:

I thought the exact same:), that 5tt all out though has a nice way of fudging the legs for the 20tt

bryangiggsy

El Director wrote: »

User|Nov|Dec|Jan|Feb|Mar|Apr|May|Jun|Jul|Aug|Current FTP|Watts/kg|Target FTP|Target Watts/kg|Test|Unit
Tunney|250||||||||||250|3.04|350|5.38|T5+T20*0.95|SRMs
J0hn1|282||||||||||282|3.66|350|4.79|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
Jackyback|250||||||||||250|3.57|290|4.46|T5+T20*0.925|SRMs
Couerdelion|269||||||||||269|2.39|360|4.00|T5+T20*0.925|Power2Max
MD1983|295||||||||||295|3.70|340|4.25|1hr+T20*0.95|SRAM
El Director|250||||||||||295|3.1|310|4.2|T5+T20*0.95|Quarq
Bryangiggsy|233||||||||||233|3.03|||T5+T20*0.95|SRM

Had my first ftp test of 2014 season last night. Hurt a lot. Will test again in 6 weeks. Here is my power file from it
http://connect.garmin.com/splits/400834758

Here is my power file from lough key 2 months ago
http://connect.garmin.com/splits/372860807

I think it would benefit the thread if everyone shared their power files from their latest ftp test. Dave what do you think? What harm could it do? Barring an injury will post my next file in 6 weeks time.

tunney

bryangiggsy wrote: »

Had my first ftp test of 2014 season last night. Hurt a lot. Will test again in 6 weeks. Here is my power file from it
http://connect.garmin.com/splits/400834758

Here is my power file from lough key 2 months ago
http://connect.garmin.com/splits/372860807

I think it would benefit the thread if everyone shared their power files from their latest ftp test. Dave what do you think? What harm could it do? Barring an injury will post my next file in 6 weeks time.

Not a bad idea. For those that don't use a Garmin head unit (I suspect just me) something need different links to Garmin Connect1

bryangiggsy

User|Nov|Dec|Jan|Feb|Mar|Apr|May|Jun|Jul|Aug|Current FTP|Watts/kg|Target FTP|Target Watts/kg|Test|Unit
Tunney|250||||||||||250|3.04|350|5.38|T5+T20*0.95|SRMs
J0hn1|282||||||||||282|3.66|350|4.79|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
Jackyback|250||||||||||250|3.57|290|4.46|T5+T20*0.925|SRMs
Couerdelion|269||||||||||269|2.39|360|4.00|T5+T20*0.925|Power2Max
MD1983|295||||||||||295|3.70|340|4.25|1hr+T20*0.95|SRAM
El Director|250||||||||||295|3.1|310|4.2|T5+T20*0.95|Quarq
Bryangiggsy|233|||||||||||3.03|||T5+T20*0.95|SRM


Had my first ftp test of 2014 season last night. Hurt a lot. Will test again in 6 weeks. Here is my power file from it
http://connect.garmin.com/splits/400834758

Here is my power file from lough key 2 months ago
http://connect.garmin.com/splits/372860807

I think it would benefit the thread if everyone shared their power files from their latest ftp test. Dave what do you think? What harm could it do? Will post my next file in 6 weeks time all going well.

tunney

bryangiggsy wrote: »

Had my first ftp test of 2014 season last night. Hurt a lot. Will test again in 6 weeks. Here is my power file from it
http://connect.garmin.com/splits/400834758

Here is my power file from lough key 2 months ago
http://connect.garmin.com/splits/372860807

I think it would benefit the thread if everyone shared their power files from their latest ftp test. Dave what do you think? What harm could it do? Barring an injury will post my next file in 6 weeks time.

To be honest I would have expected a great difference between the 5 minute and 20 minute test than 5%. 5% to me suggests the 5 minute test wasn't committed to and was undercooked by 15-30 watts in this case. #moreSufferingNeeded

bryangiggsy

tunney wrote: »

To be honest I would have expected a great difference between the 5 minute and 20 minute test than 5%. 5% to me suggests the 5 minute test wasn't committed to and was undercooked by 15-30 watts in this case. #moreSufferingNeeded

Any file will do Dave. Considering i have only done a few easy turbos in 2 mths i expect the suffering level to increase drastically over the nxt 6 weeks

tunney

bryangiggsy wrote: »

Any file will do Dave. Considering i have only done a few easy turbos in 2 mths i expect the suffering level to increase drastically over the nxt 6 weeks

I stopped using training peaks but just uploaded as only way I can think of doing this.

http://tpks.ws/y4t8

18% difference 5 minute and 20 minute. Anything less than 10-15% in my opinion means the person wussed out on the 5 minute TT and the 20 minute is subsequently inflated and invalid.

bryangiggsy

tunney wrote: »

I stopped using training peaks but just uploaded as only way I can think of doing this.

http://tpks.ws/y4t8

18% difference 5 minute and 20 minute. Anything less than 10-15% in my opinion means the person wussed out on the 5 minute TT and the 20 minute is subsequently inflated and invalid.

Thanks for the file. Asi said i would expect much diff numbers at time of next testing. Would anyone else like to share their files?

mloc123

https://connect.garmin.com/activity/319747538

Have not tested since May... due one soon I am sure.

duffyshuffle

Would a 5min TT and 20min TT column in the sheet help? Would be more transparent for proper testing being done and help people to know if they haven't performed the test correctly?

duffyshuffle

User|Nov|Dec|Jan|Feb|Mar|Apr|May|Jun|Jul|Aug|Current FTP|Watts/kg|Target FTP|Target Watts/kg|Test|Unit
Tunney|250||||||||||250|3.04|350|5.38|T5+T20*0.95|SRMs
J0hn1|282||||||||||282|3.66|350|4.79|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
Jackyback|250||||||||||250|3.57|290|4.46|T5+T20*0.925|SRMs
Couerdelion|269||||||||||269|2.39|360|4.00|T5+T20*0.925|Power2Max
MD1983|295||||||||||295|3.70|340|4.25|1hr+T20*0.95|SRAM
El Director|250||||||||||295|3.1|310|4.2|T5+T20*0.95|Quarq
Bryangiggsy|233|||||||||||3.03|||T5+T20*0.95|SRM
duffyshuffle|-|||||||||||-|||T5+T20*0.925|Powertap


Test to happen when I get my PT back

tunney

duffyshuffle wrote: »

Test to happen when I get my PT back

I don't know anyone whose PT works reliably.

sconhome

User|Nov|Dec|Jan|Feb|Mar|Apr|May|Jun|Jul|Aug|Current FTP|Watts/kg|Target FTP|Target Watts/kg|Test|Unit
Tunney|250||||||||||250|3.04|350|5.38|T5+T20*0.95|SRMs
J0hn1|282||||||||||282|3.66|350|4.79|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
Jackyback|250||||||||||250|3.57|290|4.46|T5+T20*0.925|SRMs
Couerdelion|269||||||||||269|2.39|360|4.00|T5+T20*0.925|Power2Max
MD1983|295||||||||||295|3.70|340|4.25|1hr+T20*0.95|SRAM
El Director|250||||||||||295|3.1|310|4.2|T5+T20*0.95|Quarq
Bryangiggsy|233|||||||||||3.03|||T5+T20*0.95|SRM
duffyshuffle|-|||||||||||-|||T5+T20*0.925|Powertap
Amphkingwest|-|||||||||||-|||T5+T20*0.95|Polar BABY!!

I'll figure the rest out in a couple of weeks when I have some cycling in the legs.

Why are people doing 0.925?

tunney

amphkingwest wrote: »

User|Nov|Dec|Jan|Feb|Mar|Apr|May|Jun|Jul|Aug|Current FTP|Watts/kg|Target FTP|Target Watts/kg|Test|Unit
Tunney|250||||||||||250|3.04|350|5.38|T5+T20*0.95|SRMs
J0hn1|282||||||||||282|3.66|350|4.79|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
Jackyback|250||||||||||250|3.57|290|4.46|T5+T20*0.925|SRMs
Couerdelion|269||||||||||269|2.39|360|4.00|T5+T20*0.925|Power2Max
MD1983|295||||||||||295|3.70|340|4.25|1hr+T20*0.95|SRAM
El Director|250||||||||||295|3.1|310|4.2|T5+T20*0.95|Quarq
Bryangiggsy|233|||||||||||3.03|||T5+T20*0.95|SRM
duffyshuffle|-|||||||||||-|||T5+T20*0.925|Powertap
Amphkingwest|-|||||||||||-|||T5+T20*0.95|Polar BABY!!

I'll figure the rest out in a couple of weeks when I have some cycling in the legs.

Why are people doing 0.925?

Jackyback - because it was discussed and agreed on. The range is 0.9-0.95 - people pick the higher end because we all like to swing our mickeys.

I'm guessing Courdelion and Duffy shuffle are basing theirs off similar thinking.

I went with 0.95 as I have previously tested with T5+T20 * 0.95 and a few days later a T60 and they matched. 0.95 works for me but I suspect most (including yourself) just picked it because you heard it was the multipler to use.

BennyMul

tunney wrote: »

I don't know anyone whose PT works reliably.

mine does, but I assume I'm not producing enough power to do any damage.

sconhome

tunney wrote: »

0.95 works for me but I suspect most (including yourself) just picked it because you heard it was the multipler to use.

Some lad on the interweb told me that was the one to use :rolleyes: I should've copped on cos he also told me Polar was sh1te.

ronanmac

User|Nov|Dec|Jan|Feb|Mar|Apr|May|Jun|Jul|Aug|Current FTP|Watts/kg|Target FTP|Target Watts/kg|Test|Unit
Tunney|250||||||||||250|3.04|350|5.38|T5+T20*0.95|SRMs
J0hn1|282||||||||||282|3.66|350|4.79|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
Jackyback|250||||||||||250|3.57|290|4.46|T5+T20*0.925|SRMs
Couerdelion|269||||||||||269|2.39|360|4.00|T5+T20*0.925|Power2Max
MD1983|295||||||||||295|3.70|340|4.25|1hr+T20*0.95|SRAM
El Director|250||||||||||295|3.1|310|4.2|T5+T20*0.95|Quarq
Bryangiggsy|233|||||||||||3.03|||T5+T20*0.95|SRM
duffyshuffle|-|||||||||||-|||T5+T20*0.925|Powertap
Amphkingwest|-|||||||||||-|||T5+T20*0.95|Polar BABY!!
ronanmac|198||||||||||198|2.71|||T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max


The first and only sub-200 FTP on the table :eek: The optimist in me looks at this in the same way I looked at my place on the 400m swim table and see that there's plenty of scope for improvement

tunney

Whats with people not posting targets?

Going to post a link to your file? Helps to keep people honest so that they don't deliberately undercook the five minute TT to artifically inflate their 20 minute test (assuming thats what they are doing, either that or are clueless as to power training)

ronanmac

tunney wrote: »

Whats with people not posting targets?

Going to post a link to your file? Helps to keep people honest so that they don't deliberately undercook the five minute TT to artifically inflate their 20 minute test (assuming thats what they are doing, either that or are clueless as to power training)

In my case, I haven't worked out targets as yet, and haven't worked out how to work out targets as yet.
I haven't uploaded my Garmin file, but as I recall, my average for the five minutes was 243w, as opposed to 208w for the 20 minutes...

MD1983

Zoey Skinny Redcoat wrote: »

I thought the exact same:), that 5tt all out though has a nice way of fudging the legs for the 20tt

yes i suspect the 5 min TT would have an impact on it, it will be interesting to see and i should test again when i can stomach the thought of it. but it may not impact so much either, looking back at HOTW my peak 20 min power was from minute 30 to minute 50 averaging 294 watts so after the swim and half an hour on the bike and saving a bit for the run that is not so bad.

what would be interesting to know if anybody does is what wattage it takes to go under 1hr 10mins at HOTW (assuming a good aero set up....!)?

couerdelion

MD1983 wrote: »

What would be interesting to know if anybody does is what wattage it takes to go under 1hr 10mins at HOTW (assuming a good aero set up....!)?

Less than 10 went under 1hr 10mins in the HOTW this year.

FWIW Gavin Noble's strava estimates his avg power to be 330w (but no idea how accurate that is). http://www.strava.com/activities/64106441

He weighs about 75kg so you would be looking to be able to hit 4.4 w/kg (if any of those figures are accurate).

A lot of if, buts, and maybe's so perhaps not that much use

tunney

couerdelion wrote: »

Less than 10 went under 1hr 10mins in the HOTW this year.

FWIW Gavin Noble's strava estimates his avg power to be 330w (but no idea how accurate that is). http://www.strava.com/activities/64106441

He weighs about 75kg so you would be looking to be able to hit 4.4 w/kg (if any of those figures are accurate).

A lot of if, buts, and maybe's so perhaps not that much use

Why the obsession on here with watts per kg?

couerdelion

tunney wrote: »

Why the obsession on here with watts per kg?

It seemed a suitable way of answering the question. How would you have answered it?

tunney

couerdelion wrote: »

It seemed a suitable way of answering the question. How would you have answered it?

On a course like kilkee absolute wattage (okay relative to drag) would be more important.

People could just ask Gavin on twitter?

EoghanRooney

Are the FTP tests/values from trainer road applicable here? For those of us without a power meter?

MD1983

tunney wrote: »

On a course like kilkee absolute wattage (okay relative to drag) would be more important.

People could just ask Gavin on twitter?

total wattage and drag is certainly more important than watts per KG for TT but kilkee has a little bit more undulation that most other big olympic races in ireland e.g. athy, athlone.

had a look at BMC's blog, he doesn't (i think) have a file up for kilkee but looking at his one from athlone in 2012 he averaged more than 400 watts..... holy fcuk, not much point in comparing a normal triathlete to him really!

but then i would guess that someone like shane scully who put down a decent time is not anywhere near 400 watts on average for kilkee, his drag is probably a lot lower than BMC, apples and oranges

mossym

EoghanRooney wrote: »

Are the FTP tests/values from trainer road applicable here? For those of us without a power meter?

trainerroad put my power level at about 160W. a recent VO2max test put my threshold power at 290W. I think the second is high personally, given some of the numbers i've seen in here, but even still it suggest the Trainerroad is way off.

i still use trainerroad though, but only to judge any improvements off that 160W number, i.e. 10% improvement or whatever i get. the number means nothing.

having seen the differences, i've stayed away from posting a number in this thread as without a real power meter to do this right it doesn't mean much(from my limited knowledge)

pointer28

mossym wrote: »

trainerroad put my power level at about 160W. a recent VO2max test put my threshold power at 290W. I think the second is high personally, given some of the numbers i've seen in here, but even still it suggest the Trainerroad is way off.

i still use trainerroad though, but only to judge any improvements off that 160W number, i.e. 10% improvement or whatever i get. the number means nothing.

having seen the differences, i've stayed away from posting a number in this thread as without a real power meter to do this right it doesn't mean much(from my limited knowledge)

Same problem here, although it gave me a highly embarrassing 140W. Still, I can't afford a PM and it's something to work from.

Won't be posting any numbers in here either, too embarrassed to be bottom of the list.

hf4z6sqo7vjngi

Are you sure both of you have the correct turbo model selected and that it is calibrated? If you have less resistance to the flywheel it will likely impact on power values (as in read low)

pointer28

Zoey Skinny Redcoat wrote: »

Are you sure both of you have the correct turbo model selected and that it is calibrated? If you have less resistance to the flywheel it will likely impact on power values (as in read low)

Thanks JB, definitely the right model.

I'll make sure the resistance is the same the next time, so at least I'll try to have consistency if not accuracy.

The numbers mean nothing to me anyway, it's the effort that's important.

joey100

Same problem here, although it gave me a highly embarrassing 140W. Still, I can't afford a PM and it's something to work from.

Won't be posting any numbers in here either, too embarrassed to be bottom of the list.

Wouldn't worry about that, trainerroad FTP test has me at 127. You have a bit of room ahead of me.