Wonderful or Selfish?

Witchie

Carrickmacross family the Maher's welcomed their 13th child into the world recently.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/baby-daithis-arrival-completes-a-bakers-dozen-for-maher-family-29727908.html

Does anyone else think this is quite selfish of them to have so many children? I think really anymore than 4 is pushing the planet to the limit and there are so many kids needing homes without people having so many.

Or are they all a wonderful gift and a large family is a blessing?

The One Who Knocks

Neither.


...I guess Johnny didn't have someone covered.

Banjo String

Witchie wrote: »

Carrickmacross family the Maher's welcomed their 13th child into the world recently.

http://http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/baby-daithis-arrival-completes-a-bakers-dozen-for-maher-family-29727908.html

Does anyone else think this is quite selfish of them to have so many children? I think really anymore than 4 is pushing the planet to the limit and there are so many kids needing homes without people having so many.

Or are they all a wonderful gift and a large family is a blessing?

My father had 14 brothers and sisters, 13 of which survived to adulthood and are all still alive and well.

My mum has 11 siblings too.

Rural Catholic Ireland had little entertainment bar ridin and contraception was frowned upon back then op.

MJ23

The amount of money they're costing the country is unreal.
Buy yer man a few boxes of Johnnies.

Witchie

My dad is the 13th of 14 children but 3 died in childhood. I understand it "back in the day" without contraception it kinda just happened. Just don't understand it in this day and age.

I stopped at 2 coz I wanted to make sure I could afford to educate them to as high a level as possible but would have loved another one or 2. Decided it wouldnt be fair on them to have more than I could hope to afford to give as good a quality of life as possible so I didnt.

dodderangler

Sure that was the norm back in 19 dickety 2
We had to say dickety cuz the kaiser stole our word 20

marshbaboon

It's impossible to judge previous generations based upon modern principles, but it is child abuse to fire out a litter of children if you are unable to provide for all of their needs.

Jonny Blaze

The One Who Knocks wrote: »

Neither.


...I guess Johnny didn't have someone covered.

Hey I cover everyone!

NoCrackHaving

How do you actually afford that many kids? Most people from those huge Irish families grew up dirt poor.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

Are they Islamic Traveller Gypsy Jews from Nigeria?

It's just ****ing typical if they are!!!



Link doesn't seem to work.

FoxT

Witchie wrote: »

Carrickmacross family the Maher's welcomed their 13th child into the world recently.

http://http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/baby-daithis-arrival-completes-a-bakers-dozen-for-maher-family-29727908.html

Does anyone else think this is quite selfish of them to have so many children? I think really anymore than 4 is pushing the planet to the limit and there are so many kids needing homes without people having so many.

Or are they all a wonderful gift and a large family is a blessing?

13, eh? Lucky for some...

Artful_Badger

Whats all this talk about previous generations living rural lives in catholic Ireland ? This couple have had 13 kids in the last 15 years. They had an excuse back then, these people are just idiots.

Muise...

Some of those children are blond. :eek:

CALL THE GUARDS!!!!!!!

Moonbeam

The link is not working for me.
But I can not imagine having personal time for 13 kids,I have 3 and #4 on the way and it is hard enough having time with all of them,never mind trying to afford college when the time comes.
Once you can afford the amount that you decide on and have time for them I don't see an issue,if you can't and the kids don't get to be kids then I think it is a different story.


I found the link..Carrickmacross to DUblin Airport is some commute for work.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2171637/And-thought-Duggar-family-big-The-vastly-different-lifestyles-megafamilies-globe.html craziness.

Seedy Arling

A vagina is not a clown car.

Electric Sheep

I had friends who grew up in huge families like that. The older girls were practically house slaves, expected to miss school to help out at home whenever their mother demanded it, and pretty much full time unpaid babysitters. It was better for the boys, and better for the younger kids.

Pushtrak

Reading the comments, there were people mentioning having big families there too. Oh, and link some of you might find interesting... Or terrifying.

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Irish-population-could-top-pre-Famine-levels----estimated-to-reach-67-million-by-2046--206002691.html

Vito Corleone

Neither. A non story.

Menas

I would not say it is selfish or wonderful. Just mad. Providing the emotional and practical support that one kid needs is demanding, must be impossible for 13.
And if one parent passes or gets sick then the eldest kids have to take over....

Wattle

Pompey Magnus

Witchie wrote: »

Does anyone else think this is quite selfish of them to have so many children? I think really anymore than 4 is pushing the planet to the limit and there are so many kids needing homes without people having so many.

"Selfish: having or showing concern only for yourself and not for the needs or feelings of other people"

How exactly is it selfish (except for in some vague genetic sense)? Considering the Irish birth rate is now below replacement level would it not be more selfish for those of us (myself included) who are refusing to have children because we don't want to miss out on the benefits the childless life has to offer, ignoring demographic issues that may arise in the future with a declining and aging population?

At any rate thinking the odd couple here and there having more than 4 children should feel some guilt for pushing the planet to the limit is just silly.

The Pheasant2

How can yer man even get it in anymore? Must be like trying to do it with a black bin bag!

Pushtrak

Pompey Magnus wrote: »

Considering the Irish birth rate is now below replacement level

Where are you getting this? See link in my last post, it points out the birth rate is 2.1 which makes it highest in Europe.

Pompey Magnus

Pushtrak wrote: »

Where are you getting this? See link in my last post, it points out the birth rate is 2.1 which makes it highest in Europe.

Page 63

The CSO say the Total Period Fertility Rate, a better index than simple birth rate, is 2.01, below the 2.1 replacement level.

Bog Standard User

Witchie wrote: »

Carrickmacross family the Maher's welcomed their 13th child into the world recently.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/baby-daithis-arrival-completes-a-bakers-dozen-for-maher-family-29727908.html

Does anyone else think this is quite selfish of them to have so many children? I think really anymore than 4 is pushing the planet to the limit and there are so many kids needing homes without people having so many.

Or are they all a wonderful gift and a large family is a blessing?

so long as i dont have to pay extra tax money to feed n clothe them they can have as many kids as they like

cuana

Trigger Happy wrote: »

I would not say it is selfish or wonderful. Just mad. Providing the emotional and practical support that one kid needs is demanding, must be impossible for 13.
And if one parent passes or gets sick then the eldest kids have to take over....

Agreed! I love my parents dearly but there are 7 of us!! My sister always says that she felt she missed out on quiet a bit as she was always minding someone!

I think my parents have done right by us for the most part however we missed out on things such as getting to lets say getting to par take in an interest of choice they just didn't have the time to accommodate us like really simple things I only learned to swim as an adult! It was a nightmare to bring us anywhere thus we never ever ventured too far! I'm sure at times they must have struggled financially and otherwise yet we pretty much turned out to be all well rounded, successful in our chosen careers etc etc

Now having said that we have amazing stories, experiences, memories!! We did in fact all take care of each other & still support each other today.

Pompey Magnus

Nice to see though that it wasn't just Catholic Ireland that judged the morality of what consenting adults do in the privacy of their own bedroom. Modern, secular Ireland is keeping up the tradition it seems.

Pushtrak

Pompey Magnus wrote: »

Nice to see though that it wasn't just Catholic Ireland that judged the morality of what consenting adults do in the privacy of their own bedroom. Modern, secular Ireland is keeping up the tradition it seems.

The Catholic Church did more than judge, they had dictates. People here just aren't exactly fans of parents having more children than one could reasonably expect them to afford. There is a marked difference there.

Artful_Badger

Pompey Magnus wrote: »

Nice to see though that it wasn't just Catholic Ireland that judged the morality of what consenting adults do in the privacy of their own bedroom. Modern, secular Ireland is keeping up the tradition it seems.

Except its not what they do in the privacy of their own bedroom thats the issue at all is it ?

anncoates

Personally I think it's way too many kids to have but it's their call I .

Pompey Magnus

Pushtrak wrote: »

People here just aren't exactly fans of parents having more children than one could reasonably expect them to afford. There is a marked difference there.

I might be wrong but I have a sneaky suspicion that in 20 or 30 years when many of those here judging this couple begin to approach retirement age they may just be regretting that there were not a few more couples around with large families today, especially those who actually believe we will be experiencing a population boom here by then!

Pompey Magnus

Artful_Badger wrote: »

Except its not what they do in the privacy of their own bedroom thats the issue at all is it ?

You mean a heterosexual couple having unprotected sex? Well I can't say for sure but I'm guessing it mostly happened in the bedroom...

Menas

30 posts so far. If the father was on welfare and not a hard working man then this thread would have 300 posts by now.

Artful_Badger

Pompey Magnus wrote: »

You mean a heterosexual couple having unprotected sex? Well I can't say for sure but I'm guessing it mostly happened in the bedroom...

The issue isnt with them having sex its with them having 13 kids. Pretty sure the entire ordeal over the last 15 years wasnt all confined to the bedroom...

Chattastrophe!

I don't think it's necessarily selfish. Every family dynamic is different. Some parents could be overwhelmed by just two children and unable to cope well; others would be fine with twenty!

I'm from a large family myself (second eldest of seven.) I wouldn't have that many kids myself, but I don't think that my siblings or I suffered any negative effects from being part of a bigger family.

Pompey Magnus

Artful_Badger wrote: »

The issue isnt with them having sex its with them having 13 kids.

So are we not here judging them for not using contraception / abstinence, which is exactly my point?

Lando Griffin

Would be a disaster if you brought them all shopping to Aldi; they would be tricked into opening another till thinking there was 13 people in the queue.
Stay sway from Aldi big family.

Femme_Fatale

Pompey Magnus wrote: »

Nice to see though that it wasn't just Catholic Ireland that judged the morality of what consenting adults do in the privacy of their own bedroom. Modern, secular Ireland is keeping up the tradition it seems.

That's one hell of a disingenuous comparison. Back in those days, contraception was condemned as sinful by the church - there wasn't a problem with people having procreation sex so long as they were married.

Today, it's not about the sex whatsoever - it's about having too many children to look after properly, when there is availability of contraception.

Weird comparison really.

It's very irresponsible to have 13 children if you can't afford to provide for them. I don't mean that in the dumb "Can't afford children? Don't have them" sense that gets applied to people who have two or three children and have fallen on hard times.
But this is another sphere entirely - and way too extreme.

Santa Cruz

Trigger Happy wrote: »

30 posts so far. If the father was on welfare and not a hard working man then this thread would have 300 posts by now.

In due course he will be on Joe Duffy whinging that the government aren't providing employment for his brood in the town and they have to emigrate. In the interim the taxpayer will have subsidised him thousands of euro.
Pay them nothing after three kids and we would see how they would like it.

Artful_Badger

Pompey Magnus wrote: »

So are we not here judging them for not using contraception / abstinence, which is exactly my point?

Your point is that is was a private thing between those two individuals in their own home and they shouldnt be judged for that. I'm saying it stopped being a private thing between those two individuals when they brought 13 more individuals into the world. This affects others so it is no longer their private business and nothing to do with anyone else.

theblaqueguy

Holy sh!t how much child benefit do they get a month so its
€130 a month for the first 3 thats €390
Add on 10 children at €140 a month thats €1400+€390= €1790 a month thats a nice chunk of change every month the oldest child is 15 so they should be getting €21,480 every year for the next 3 years
Any women on boards wanna start making some babies seems like easy money maybe try for 15 kids hopefully have some twins or triplets to make the process easier we can expect
€2,210 a month if we can reach the goal of 15

Pompey Magnus

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Today, it's not about the sex whatsoever - it's about having too many children to look after properly, when there is availability of contraception.

How are these children not being looked after properly?

Electric Sheep

theblaqueguy wrote: »

Holy sh!t how much child benefit do they get a month so its
€130 a month for the first 3 thats €390
Add on 10 children at €140 a month thats €1400+€390= €1790 a month thats a nice chunk of change every month the oldest child is 15 so they should be getting €21,480 every year for the next 3 years
Any women on boards wanna start making some babies seems like easy money maybe try for 15 kids hopefully have some twins or triplets to make the process easier we can expect
€2,210 a month if we can reach the goal of 15

You think taking care of 15 kids is easy money?!

Pompey Magnus

Artful_Badger wrote: »

Your point is that is was a private thing between those two individuals in their own home and they shouldnt be judged for that. I'm saying it stopped being a private thing between those two individuals when they brought 13 more individuals into the world. This affects others so it is no longer their private business and nothing to do with anyone else.

If that is your criteria then one child affects others also, does that mean any act of unprotected sex between a heterosexual couple should no longer be considered a private act?

oceanman

Santa Cruz wrote: »

In due course he will be on Joe Duffy whinging that the government aren't providing employment for his brood in the town and they have to emigrate. In the interim the taxpayer will have subsidised him thousands of euro.
Pay them nothing after three kids and we would see how they would like it.

would that not make us a bit like china?

my teapot is orange

€140 a month is €35 a week. You might just about cover the childs food out of that, never mind clothes and other expenses. They're hardly doing it for profit.

Stheno

NoCrackHaving wrote: »

How do you actually afford that many kids? Most people from those huge Irish families grew up dirt poor.

From my own experience that's not true, I'm the oldest of ten, and the house was organised like the army, we all had chores etc to make sure everything got done, but were all encouraged to do sports/hobbies and given lots of support from our parents.

I can't say that I ever noticed a lack of money and it inhibiting what we did tbh and this was in the eighties. When we were 16/17 we were encouraged to go out and get part time work/babysitting etc but certainly there was no pressure to do so.

Teyla Emmagan

They seem like a nice, happy family. Lovely kids who are certainly all well looked after and content, judging by the article anyway.

And I for one am delighted to see 13 additional tax payers to look after me in my old age.

Dr Turk Turkelton

The Pheasant2 wrote: »

How can yer man even get it in anymore? Must be like trying to do it with a black bin bag!

Like throwing a sausage down O'Connell street!

Czarcasm

I wouldn't say it was either selfish or wonderful, they're just a couple that decided to have a big family. What's there to judge them for in all fairness?

13 people in a world population of 7 billion people? Hardly overpopulation now is it? And the parents seem to be able to take care of them, so... ehh, yeah, whatever tbh.

Femme_Fatale

Pompey Magnus wrote: »

How are these children not being looked after properly?

I meant in general, not these children specifically.
I can't imagine it being easy to afford to financially support 13 children today, unless you're fairly well off. And I'm not one of the "Kids are so expensive" believers - you can find a way... but only to a point.