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Ireland Backrow

  • 04-11-2013 11:20am
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 817 ✭✭✭


    Just a quick poll to see what people think of Ireland's current backrow, as it stands POM,SOB and Heaslip are the most likely to start but is this a balanced enough backrow? Especially when you consider the type of game Schmidt will play.

    Which backrow do you think is the most balanced? 126 votes

    POM, SOB, Heaslip
    0%
    SOB, Henry, Heaslip
    73%
    .akdreginmaddsuRbaNmoby2101cruiserweightkeano_afcNooptiSpudmonkey[Jackass]mystic86melekalikimakaelefantRoanmorestephen_nLuckyLloydjspudsbudhabobec18razorblunt 93 votes
    McLaughlin, SOB, Heaslip
    18%
    Big NellyhardCopyrandomname2005tolosencGrimeboxarodabombhurleronditchbrownacidWheekererrlloydchippersits_philpart time punkgmurphy70jacotheladdamianmcrgrohlisagodPrincipal SkinnersixyStainalert 23 votes
    McLaughlin, SOB, POM
    6%
    crisco10bamboozletechdiverescape m1TheGoldenAgesKaylessTheKeenMachineFrannoFan 8 votes
    SOB, TOD, Heaslip
    1%
    Pingunudger 2 votes


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,719 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    SOB, Henry, Heaslip
    Schmidt was happy enough to play with McLaughlin, O'Brien, Heaslip as a balance at Leinster, If he intends to continue a similar pattern then POM, O'Brien, Heaslip is the one.

    My second pref would be POM, Henry, O'Brien


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,720 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    SOB, Henry, Heaslip
    O'Brien simply can't be moved from openside as he's the best 7 in Europe atm. Heaslip is is our best 8 too so that leaves blindside open for debate. As much as I rate Mc Loughlin, I don't think he'll ever reach the standard required to be a regular international so O'Mahony is our best bet there.

    There will need to be a re-think of how this backrow is best utilized though. I wasn't too impressed with how they played in the last 6 Nations. O'Mahony, I feel, didn't contribute enough in the tight while Heaslip spent too much time there and not enough in the wider channels where he does his best work. No doubt that was a tactical decision and I hope Schmidt has other ideas.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,221 ✭✭✭Ugo Monye spacecraft experience


    SOB, Henry, Heaslip
    McLoughlin hasn't been in great form by any means this season. Surprised some people would prefer to see him there ahead of POM who is in flying form

    SOB/Henry/Heaslip is the other option but SOB is just playing so well at 7 it would be hard to justify moving him


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,824 ✭✭✭LostArt


    SOB, Henry, Heaslip
    McLoughlin will do well to hang onto his Leinster place the way Ruddock's going this season


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,309 ✭✭✭former legend


    SOB, Henry, Heaslip
    McLoughlin hasn't been in great form by any means this season. Surprised some people would prefer to see him there ahead of POM who is in flying form

    I suppose there is a difference between the "most balanced" and "best" back-rows.
    McLaughlin isn't the most dynamic player but he's a very good six; good in the lineout, solid tackler, always makes a few yards in contact and never gets turned over.
    So if you were selecting someone to be a BS flanker and nothing else, purely to balance the back-row, you could argue for him but realistically POM brings more to the table and when the team is being picked, I don't see Joe and Les having much of a debate.


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  • Administrators Posts: 54,424 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Ferris, SOB and Heaslip, in a perfect world. :p


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,309 ✭✭✭former legend


    SOB, Henry, Heaslip
    If POM/SOB/Heaslip is set in stone (as I expect it is), the only question then is who wears #20.

    The options are: Henry, Coughlan and McLaughlin. I don't think the replacement has to be particularly versatile since POM and SOB can move around to cover gaps, but I'd still go with Henry out of those three.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,026 ✭✭✭B0X


    Is SOB fit again?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,221 ✭✭✭Ugo Monye spacecraft experience


    SOB, Henry, Heaslip
    If POM/SOB/Heaslip is set in stone (as I expect it is), the only question then is who wears #20.

    The options are: Henry, Coughlan and McLaughlin. I don't think the replacement has to be particularly versatile since POM and SOB can move around to cover gaps, but I'd still go with Henry out of those three.

    Ya so would i, (Wilson also an option btw)


  • Administrators Posts: 54,424 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Ya so would i, (Wilson also an option btw)

    The only thing is he played 7 for us against the Scarlets and was terrible. Got binned for one of the stupidest fouls you are ever likely to see. I'd have Henry on the bench over Wilson.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,876 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    SOB, Henry, Heaslip
    awec wrote: »
    The only thing is he played 7 for us against the Scarlets and was terrible. Got binned for one of the stupidest fouls you are ever likely to see. I'd have Henry on the bench over Wilson.

    You know, I blame Anscombe for Wilson's performance, he isn't a 7, he's not even the distant cousin of a 7. He is a No.8 first and foremost and has proved this season that he is a useful option at 6. Playing Wilson at 7 was a crazy call, especially when we had a perfectly adequate 7 in Sean Doyle riding the pine.

    Outside of Heaslip, I'd certainly consider Wilson as a No.8, alongside Coughlan and Copeland, I think there are too many other younger alternatives at 6 though to consider him there.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,636 ✭✭✭✭Tox56


    bilston wrote: »
    You know, I blame Anscombe for Wilson's performance, he isn't a 7, he's not even the distant cousin of a 7. He is a No.8 first and foremost and has proved this season that he is a useful option at 6. Playing Wilson at 7 was a crazy call, especially when we had a perfectly adequate 7 in Sean Doyle riding the pine.

    Outside of Heaslip, I'd certainly consider Wilson as a No.8, alongside Coughlan and Copeland, I think there are too many other younger alternatives at 6 though to consider him there.

    POM is an option at 8 too. I'm still not convinced on him there long-term but to plug a gap in an emergency he has the ability and importantly now the experience I don't believe the others have.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,876 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    SOB, Henry, Heaslip
    Tox56 wrote: »
    POM is an option at 8 too. I'm still not convinced on him there long-term but to plug a gap in an emergency he has the ability and importantly now the experience I don't believe the others have.

    Forgot about POM as an 8.

    How is Paddy Butler getting on at Munster? I remember watching him on the U20s (alongside Ryan and Ruddock I think?) and he looked to the manor born.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,193 ✭✭✭[Jackass]


    SOB, Henry, Heaslip
    Ferris, O'Brien & Heaslip if all were available, but I don't think any of those combinations are a well balanced back-row.

    There's far too much emphasis on ball carrying back-rows in Ireland and it has been to our weakness for a long long time. Out and out 7's such as Keith Gleeson, Johnny O'Connor, Shane Jennings to name a few have never really been able to adapt to the Irish team or hold down a place. Sometimes they just don't take their chances, but really there hasn't been much place for a 7 in the way Irish rugby has been played at international level for as long as I can remember, but if Schmidt plays a Leinster style game, then we'll be crying out for an out and out 7 to come through. POM, SOB and Heaslip is a back-row of three players who's best position is 8 imo. Second best position is 6 and weakest is 7 because of what it negates in their natural playing style. (SOB as a 6 or 8 for example is devistating, but gets underutilised and his talent blunted as a 7 - and as the best ball carrier of the 3, it's kind of stupid.)

    There's nobody I could say would be up to the standard as an out and out 7 at the moment though. Possibly Jennings or Henry given a new style of play, but for all our celebrated back-rows in this country, give me a McCaw or Pocock any day of the week.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19 RealismKeyism


    SOB, Henry, Heaslip
    Copeland should be wearing the 20 jersey imo.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,258 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    There's isn't a place for an out and out openside in the traditional sense anywhere in professional rugby. Tipuric is probably the closest thing. All opensides have to be able to hit hard and carry hard now too. Martyn Williams was the last in that breed. People might point to someone like Warburton but he's well able to carry, jump in the line out and has played blindside too a few times. McCaw has played test rugby at 8. Pocock is an animal in contact and defence. These guys do the job of a traditional openside and much more which is necessary and I'd put SOB in that bracket too. Look at his try against Ospreys, on the shoulder of the carrier perfectly.

    SOB is significantly better as a fetcher than either Henry or Jennings. For some reason Jennings always gets lumped in as a traditional openside. He's not, he's an arm wrestler on the deck and a wily git at slowing ball down but he's not a pilferer or a link man at all. He's much more likely to be standing in midfield off a line out waiting to crash it up than he is to be getting in as the second man and ripping the ball. It's not often he gets in and turns over ball on the deck.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,619 ✭✭✭✭errlloyd


    McLaughlin, SOB, Heaslip
    I'd rate Henderson, Henry, TOD, McLoughlin and a handful of others as better than copeland.

    May as well move SOB back to 6 so we can accommodate Jake Henegan in 3 years time. :p


  • Administrators Posts: 54,424 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    bilston wrote: »
    You know, I blame Anscombe for Wilson's performance, he isn't a 7, he's not even the distant cousin of a 7. He is a No.8 first and foremost and has proved this season that he is a useful option at 6. Playing Wilson at 7 was a crazy call, especially when we had a perfectly adequate 7 in Sean Doyle riding the pine.

    Outside of Heaslip, I'd certainly consider Wilson as a No.8, alongside Coughlan and Copeland, I think there are too many other younger alternatives at 6 though to consider him there.

    True, but I still think his performance will not have helped his international cause.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,941 ✭✭✭jacothelad


    McLaughlin, SOB, Heaslip
    awec wrote: »
    True, but I still think his performance will not have helped his international cause.

    Wilson has no international cause. He's o.k. but his ship sailed years ago when Heaslip arrived.


  • Administrators Posts: 54,424 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    jacothelad wrote: »
    Wilson has no international cause. He's o.k. but his ship sailed years ago when Heaslip arrived.

    True. Though I would hope he wasn't included in the Carton Clan purely to hold tackle bags with no hope of selection.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,876 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    SOB, Henry, Heaslip
    jacothelad wrote: »
    Wilson has no international cause. He's o.k. but his ship sailed years ago when Heaslip arrived.

    His ship has sailed but I think he has merited more than one cap over the course of his career. I suppose he is a bit like Cave, he isn't the most versatile back rower and when you have someone like Heaslip ahead of you it's always going to be hard. Him playing 6 this season has come five years too late for him!

    Oh and the fact he went to Northampton for four years probably cost him.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,941 ✭✭✭jacothelad


    McLaughlin, SOB, Heaslip
    awec wrote: »
    True. Though I would hope he wasn't included in the Carton Clan purely to hold tackle bags with no hope of selection.

    I would imagine that he is really there to make up the numbers. If Heaslip tweaked a muscle then O'Mahony - who isn't within a long iron shot of an international quality 8 i.m.o. - would most likely start there with Henry or Jennings at 7 and SOB at 6 or McLaughlin at 6 and SOB at 7. It does expose our lack of quality in the backrow despite having good players or what we think of as good back rowers. After Heaslip, we are pretty shy of a decent 8 apart from O'Brien. Wilson's was always an o.k. player but Heaslip's great fitness record and Kidney's eccentric selection procedures - even for the Wolfhounds - consigned him to the wilderness. At 32(?) there is little more than this season for him - and Coughlin - to do anything of note. The number 8 cupboard is pretty bare.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19 RealismKeyism


    SOB, Henry, Heaslip
    errlloyd wrote: »
    I'd rate Henderson, Henry, TOD, McLoughlin and a handful of others as better than copeland.


    I wouldn't. Copeland can also cover 6 and 8.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,906 ✭✭✭jamiedav2011


    SOB, Henry, Heaslip
    I wouldn't. Copeland can also cover 6 and 8.

    Is that the only reason you have?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,257 ✭✭✭Hagz


    Clegg wrote: »
    O'Brien simply can't be moved from openside as he's the best 7 in Europe atm.

    I disagree. He certainly can be moved, he most likely would be the best 6 in Europe, he would love to be moved, and the future may call for it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,258 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    Copeland can play 6 and 8. When's the last time he played lock? Not this season. Or last. Or the one before that. He has never played a top level professional game there. TOD covers the entire back row. Henry covers the entire back row. Henderson genuinely covers the back row and second row.

    If there's an argument to be made for his inclusion at the expense of others, it's not one based on versatility.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19 RealismKeyism


    SOB, Henry, Heaslip
    Is that the only reason you have?

    I think hes in utterly fantastic form and has been for awhile now. He's still young, is a proven try scorer, strong carrier of the ball and hes actually brilliant at the break down. He's a well rounded back row that is exactly what you want for a player tasked with covering the 3 positions. His work rate is top notch as well and on par with POM, Heaslip and SOB so I can only imagine how he'd be coming off the bench against a tiring side. I would love for him to come back to Ireland (I can actually see Munster signing him)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19 RealismKeyism


    SOB, Henry, Heaslip
    Buer wrote: »
    Copeland can play 6 and 8. When's the last time he played lock? Not this season. Or last. Or the one before that. He has never played a top level professional game there. TOD covers the entire back row. Henry covers the entire back row. Henderson genuinely covers the back row and second row.

    If there's an argument to be made for his inclusion at the expense of others, it's not one based on versatility.

    TOD is not good enough, Henry is another genuine option but doesn't have the spark that Copeland seems to have. Henderson is injured.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,906 ✭✭✭jamiedav2011


    SOB, Henry, Heaslip
    I think hes in utterly fantastic form and has been for awhile now. He's still young, is a proven try scorer, strong carrier of the ball and hes actually brilliant at the break down. He's a well rounded back row that is exactly what you want for a player tasked with covering the 3 positions. His work rate is top notch as well and on par with POM, Heaslip and SOB so I can only imagine how he'd be coming off the bench against a tiring side. I would love for him to come back to Ireland (I can actually see Munster signing him)

    Ah here, the hype over Copeland is insane. He wasn't even in the Cardiff team a few weeks ago, now he's potentially better than guys like TOD, Locky, Henry who are proven consistently at the top HEC level.

    Don't buy it at all.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,258 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    I think hes in utterly fantastic form and has been for awhile now. He's still young, is a proven try scorer, strong carrier of the ball and hes actually brilliant at the break down. He's a well rounded back row that is exactly what you want for a player tasked with covering the 3 positions. His work rate is top notch as well and on par with POM, Heaslip and SOB so I can only imagine how he'd be coming off the bench against a tiring side. I would love for him to come back to Ireland (I can actually see Munster signing him)

    You've got be confusing him with someone else. He's an excellent and mobile carrier who is trying to establish himself at Cardiff (he's yet to even nail down a starting spot there) and you're comparing his work rate to test Lions and internationals?

    His work rate in defence is not good enough. His own coach stated this season that his defensive work is the reason he has been left on the bench at times. His breakdown work is average to decent. Warburton and Navidi work double time at the breakdown to allow him steer clear of it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,906 ✭✭✭jamiedav2011


    SOB, Henry, Heaslip
    TOD is not good enough, Henry is another genuine option but doesn't have the spark that Copeland seems to have. Henderson is injured.

    TOD was one of Munster's players of the season in the HEC last year.
    Jaysus, it's turning into Sky Sports Hype Machine around here!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19 RealismKeyism


    SOB, Henry, Heaslip
    Buer wrote: »
    You've got be confusing him with someone else. He's an excellent and mobile carrier who is trying to establish himself at Cardiff (he's yet to even nail down a starting spot there) and you're comparing his work rate to test Lions and internationals?

    His work rate in defence is not good enough. His own coach stated this season that his defensive work is the reason he has been left on the bench at times. His breakdown work is average to decent. Warburton and Navidi work double time at the breakdown to allow him steer clear of it.

    I'm all about current form. His work rate is definitely on par with SOB, POM and Heaslip, I don't have the stats to hand but it wouldn't surprise me to hear that his carrying numbers, tackle rate and break down work is on a similar level.

    Hes coming into top form and now a regular starter, he is playing better than any of the options listed currently.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,767 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    I'm all about current form. His work rate is definitely on par with SOB, POM and Heaslip, I don't have the stats to hand but it wouldn't surprise me to hear that his carrying numbers, tackle rate and break down work is on a similar level.

    Hes coming into top form and now a regular starter, he is playing better than any of the options listed currently.

    If he was as good as you're suggesting he'd not only be a certain starter for Cardiff (which he isn't) but he'd likely be playing for a side that are a damn sight better than Cardiff, a team that haven't come within an asses roar of silverware in years.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19 RealismKeyism


    SOB, Henry, Heaslip
    molloyjh wrote: »
    If he was as good as you're suggesting he'd not only be a certain starter for Cardiff (which he isn't) but he'd likely be playing for a side that are a damn sight better than Cardiff, a team that haven't come within an asses roar of silverware in years.

    He will be a certain starter after his recent form for Cardiff and next season with the form hes in he will undoubtedly move to a bigger club if he wants.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 54 ✭✭Dahecall


    For me I would go with SOB at 6. Henry at 7. POM at 8. I think O'Briens best position is 6 as his best threat is his ball carrying which would be better utilised here. Henry is more of a traditional 7 and would increase turnovers which would be of particular benefit against the all blacks. POM offers more aggression than heaslip and better ball carrying. I would have heaslip on the bench as he is a top quality number 8 but think the above is better balanced and could work extremely well.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 394 ✭✭schools rugby


    Heaslip has been the best 8 in the British and Irish countries for the last 5 years and is still better than what Wales, Scotland and England have. No way Heaslip shouldnt be in the backrow


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,340 ✭✭✭yimrsg


    He will be a certain starter after his recent form for Cardiff and next season with the form hes in he will undoubtedly move to a bigger club if he wants.

    His stats are inflated as he's regularly sitting deep for the Blues and running the ball back from deep kicks, don't assume he's making those yards by breaking tackles like Picamoles would. I think he's be given a lot more freedom than his backrow counterparts Navidi and Warburton and as such is more eye catching in open play. I wonder if he's dropping deep too often as he's denying backs like Cuthbert and Halfpenny opportunities.

    He'd probably do well against International minnows but his style of play would be found wanting in the tougher games as I don't think he'd do well in the 6N or autumn internationals.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 394 ✭✭colster


    I'm all about current form. His work rate is definitely on par with SOB, POM and Heaslip, I don't have the stats to hand but it wouldn't surprise me to hear that his carrying numbers, tackle rate and break down work is on a similar level.

    Hes coming into top form and now a regular starter, he is playing better than any of the options listed currently.

    He's nowhere near good enough. He's had a couple of good games (Exeter and Toulon) recently and suddenly he should be on the bench for Ireland. Give me a break. He played Ulster recently and was played off the park. His workrate was terrible and got a YC for an absolutely idiotic penalty.
    http://www.espn.co.uk/rabodirect-pro12-2012-13/rugby/match/167011.html

    We have loads of backrows better than Copeland.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,258 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    I'm all about current form. His work rate is definitely on par with SOB, POM and Heaslip, I don't have the stats to hand but it wouldn't surprise me to hear that his carrying numbers, tackle rate and break down work is on a similar level.

    It's not. His tackle count is nearly always one of the lowest on the field. That's partly because he's used as an additional carrier in the wider channels but also because he just doesn't get stuck in enough without the ball. Top players like Heaslip, POM and SOB maintain consistently big tackle counts and turn over ball on the deck without dropping in their carries.

    Don't get me wrong, Copeland is a talented guy and has taken his opportunities well. However, he was tearing it up last season also and getting a lot of plaudits. The hype died down then and he went back to sitting on the bench. I think he's taken a step forward this season and should remain in the first team but he's way off being the equal of the guys you name above either on ability or consistent form.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 388 ✭✭TheKeenMachine


    McLaughlin, SOB, POM
    If we're picking the best three back rows, I'd definitely have POM, SOB, Heaslip, but in terms of the most balance I think the McLaughlin, SOB, Heaslip back row would be better. They're well used to each other as well, they've been arguably the best back row in Europe for three or four seasons now. Also, the closest match against NZ last year involved the three of them, when Locky played out of his skin. Although McLaughlin hasn't been on vintage form this year, I thought he was pretty good in the HC games at least.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19 RealismKeyism


    SOB, Henry, Heaslip
    For me I would go with SOB at 6. Henry at 7. POM at 8. I think O'Briens best position is 6 as his best threat is his ball carrying which would be better utilised here. Henry is more of a traditional 7 and would increase turnovers which would be of particular benefit against the all blacks. POM offers more aggression than heaslip and better ball carrying. I would have heaslip on the bench as he is a top quality number 8 but think the above is better balanced and could work extremely well.

    There is not a chance Heaslip should be dropped and definitely not if his replacement is POM. POM at 8 is not even close to Heaslip.

    The problem here is that you want to start Henry because you know how useful he is on the deck but can't bring yourself to drop POM. However putting POM at 8 simply to have both Henry and POM on the field is insane, not only is POM not overly spectacular at 8 but Heaslip is one of the best 8s in the world. He's a much better operator than POM.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,668 ✭✭✭Mahatma Geansai


    SOB, Henry, Heaslip
    If we're picking the best three back rows, I'd definitely have POM, SOB, Heaslip, but in terms of the most balance I think the McLaughlin, SOB, Heaslip back row would be better. They're well used to each other as well, they've been arguably the best back row in Europe for three or four seasons now. Also, the closest match against NZ last year involved the three of them, when Locky played out of his skin. Although McLaughlin hasn't been on vintage form this year, I thought he was pretty good in the HC games at least.

    By that reasoning DOC should be partnering POC in the second row and Cronin ahead of Best at hooker.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19 RealismKeyism


    SOB, Henry, Heaslip
    colster wrote: »
    He's nowhere near good enough. He's had a couple of good games (Exeter and Toulon) recently and suddenly he should be on the bench for Ireland. Give me a break. He played Ulster recently and was played off the park. His workrate was terrible and got a YC for an absolutely idiotic penalty.
    http://www.espn.co.uk/rabodirect-pro12-2012-13/rugby/match/167011.html

    We have loads of backrows better than Copeland.

    So he had a poor game? It happens. I've seen all of the Irish backrows have off days. You can't deny that hes had more excellent games than bad in the last while and showed his abilities against the current HC champions.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,221 ✭✭✭Ugo Monye spacecraft experience


    SOB, Henry, Heaslip
    So he had a poor game? It happens. I've seen all of the Irish backrows have off days. You can't deny that hes had more excellent games than bad in the last while and showed his abilities against the current HC champions.

    I'd have Copeland in the squad ahead of Wilson but he simply hasn't been good enough for anywhere long enough to justify his inclusion over Henry on the bench for Ireland


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,648 ✭✭✭desertcircus


    If Copeland was at Leinster, he'd be behind Heaslip, Locky, SOB, Jennings, Murphy, Ruddock and possibly Ryan. He'd be slightly closer in Munster or Ulster, but only slightly He's a long, long way from a Test jersey.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,415 ✭✭✭Swiwi.


    SOB, Henry, Heaslip
    Heaslip has been the best 8 in the British and Irish countries for the last 5 years and is still better than what Wales, Scotland and England have. No way Heaslip shouldnt be in the backrow

    Certainly the most consistent. At times Faletau has been excellent, but his game can really slip at times. Have England played the same 8 for more than a handful of games? They really have never found the next Dallagio. Ditto for Scotland.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 394 ✭✭schools rugby


    Swiwi. wrote: »
    Certainly the most consistent. At times Faletau has been excellent, but his game can really slip at times. Have England played the same 8 for more than a handful of games? They really have never found the next Dallagio. Ditto for Scotland.

    There was a period when I thought they were going to stick with Ben Morgan at 8 but that doesnt seem like happening now.

    Im of the opinion that Heaslip is massively underrated and his successor at 8 could well still be in their late teens given his lack of injuries and great fitness. Copeland shouldnt be near a test jersey at the moment and I amnnt sure about POM at 8


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,699 ✭✭✭The Pheasant2


    McLaughlin, SOB, Heaslip
    It's a real shame that Jordi's been injured - he probably could have secured a shot at this series based on his pre-injury form


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,018 ✭✭✭Bridge93


    SOB, Henry, Heaslip
    It's a real shame that Jordi's been injured - he probably could have secured a shot at this series based on his pre-injury form

    One for the future alright assuming he can keep fit long enough. Back row really is a spot Ireland can potentially be very strong in for a long time.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,287 ✭✭✭Niallof9


    SOB, Henry, Heaslip
    If Copeland was at Leinster, he'd be behind Heaslip, Locky, SOB, Jennings, Murphy, Ruddock and possibly Ryan. He'd be slightly closer in Munster or Ulster, but only slightly He's a long, long way from a Test jersey.

    well he met guy easterbuy last week so i think you're wrong. the latter 3 are probably not better players than him, SOB is off Jennings has a few seasons left and Locky needs the competition.


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