Learn from my mistakes - Over 50, injury prone, want to run sub 4 marathon

alexanderomahon

Right, I've been looking around this forum for a while now and it has ignited my desire to run a marathon again, 32 years after I did my first and only other marathon.

Facts about me.
A) 51 years old
6ft and weight just under 13 1/2 stone
C) no major running history beyond doing the Belfast marathon in 1982
D) 6 or 7 years after ago weight came on, so tried to get fit by running but kept getting a lot of leg pain
E) Finally got it looked at and had thickening of achilles and slight tear.
F) Physio helped but kept getting muscle injuries when running. Max distance got to was 8km then pop another muscle tear.

So about 3 years ago gave up on idea of running and took up cycling. Got a lot of great advice from the cycling forum and the result was I built up my fitness, dropped weight by 3 stone and completed bike rides such as Dublin - Galway, Dublin - Birmingham and Passau - Vienna.

However, I still have the desire to run a marathon again and this time not to make the mistakes I made last time. The two biggest of which were a) only training for 6 weeks b) walking part of it (still erks me I didn't run it all).

So, I came to this forum and starting asking questions and also searching the net looking for advice.

In this log I intend to share my experiences and highlight my mistakes, I hope this might be of use to others like myself who in their fifties want to see if they can take on the challenge of the marathon and hopefully, I might be able to save them some time and pain.

alexanderomahon

Over past couple of months I slowly tried running in my local gym on a treadmill with a cushioned belt. I took it easy and ran just once a week, whilst continuing to cycle most days. This all went well and I began to consider increasing my running.

I built up to doing 10k and thought yep maybe I could do a half marathon by training on the treadmill. Between raising this issue on this site and doing other research it seems solely training on a treadmill is not a great idea and the body needs to get used to the harder surface I will be running on. Especially the hardness of the surface and my muscles needing to be used to compensating for uneven surfaces and changes in direction (especially when they are tired)

.

alexanderomahon

Next, I looked for a training plan/ap

Most of what I read seemed to advocate lots of running and running on most days of the week. Given my history of injuries this worried me. Then I discovered there are 3 day running plans out there such as FIRST and asics.co.uk.

So given all the above I decided to aim for a September 2014 marathon based on a 3 day a week running plan with a gradual process of increasing my running outdoors.

Everything was going well....

alexanderomahon

So things are going well and I have my plan.

Three runs per week
one steady run of 6 to 8 km = about 10.6 to 11.2 km/h
one long run at around 10.6 - 11 km/h - got up to 15 km
one fast run of 5 km - got down to under 24 min 12km/h

All above on treadmill.

Then I joined Parkrun with the plan of this being my way to do some running outdoors.

I had been considering when to do my first Parkrun and woke up two Saturdays ago and thought sure why not today?

Then I told myself NO DON'T DO IT!!!!

NO because a) You did your quick 5km last night and you know your body needs time to recover. That's why you chose a 3 run a week programme. b) You haven't given yourself enough time to actually get to Malahide Castle. c) You know that most problems for new runners are caused by people doing too much too soon. d) What's the hurry? You want to run a marathon in September 2014 not Jan 2014 and there is no need to overdo it.



But I didn't take my own advice. I told myself I had to start somewhere and I'll take it easy.

So went to Malahide Castle and got to the event just at it was about to begin. This meant NO WARM UP

So off I go nice and easy. NO rush, but after about 4km tight calf. I stopped twice and tried to stretch it out. Still felt tight but I finished the run with a time of 27min.

Walked back to car,headed home and by later that day I knew that I'd clearly injured myself, although it wasn't the sharp stabbing pain I'd experienced with other calf injuries.

SO, BECAUSE I'D IGNORED MY OWN ADVICE I WAS NOW HAVING TO BEGIN A PROGRAMME OF REHAB.

The question was where should I start? Off to the internet I went.

alexanderomahon

So I'm sitting at home with a sore/stiff calf and yes I know for a proper assessment I should go to a qualified expert, However, I don't know if it is that bad and I haven't got loads of money.

So I search the web for a good site. Hey presto I find what appears to be a good one

http://www.athletestreatingathletes.com/

It has info on body parts, strengthening exercises, stretching exercises and clear simple videos showing how to do things to overcome and prevent injuries.

So, I read carefully, do RICE Rest,Ice,Compression, Elevation

Then when I'm ready, I begin stretching and strengthening exercises and I follow the advice on the site diligently,watching the videos and being careful. Everything is going great.

I go the gym, do the desired exercises and stop when I experience any of the things the site warns me about. I'm also using my foam roller at home and I am in command of the situation and very happy with my progress.

Then ...........

alexanderomahon

So just after a week since injuring my calf it is feeling better and there was no obvious bruising, so must have been a grade 1 injury.

My rehab consists of

still doing a bit of rice
stretching as outlined on the site
doing cone walks and balance disk work
stretching other muscles that work alongside the calf.
using the foam roller

The only thing I haven't done is use the kinesiology tape

I even jogged gently for two lots of 400m and stopped when it felt a bit tight.

All going well and I'm hoping to begin running properly in about another two weeks.

So, down the gym last Sunday and doing all of the above and all going well.

I'm there with my daughter, who has started boxing training, and she is doing her thing and I'm doing mine. Then I see her skipping and I remember my boxing days (short period longtime ago) and say ,"Give me a go."

I begin to skip and the rope is flying around and I'm feeling good. Sure what harm can a minute of skipping do now my calf is pain free? I won't do it for long, just show the 20 year old daughter her old dad can still do a few things. Then ohhhhh felt that. Calf stiffens up exactly as it had a week previously and I'm back where I started.

I had committed the sin of thinking the PAIN HAS GONE SO MY INJURY IS FINE!!! I had not considered how much strain on the calf that skipping puts.

So I'm back where I was a week ago and rehabing from start again. So decided to start this log in order to point out the stupid mistakes I am making in order to help others avoid them. Perhaps,the odd time I might even do something right

It would be great if you put in any of your training errors to help others, and to help me feel like I'm not the only GREY dummy in the village.

alexanderomahon

So this week is over and I have rehabed as above.

Apart from the normal day to day walking the only exercise I have done was a gentle 10 minutes cycling on Saturday and slightly harder 15 minutes cycling today.

The rest of week has been stretching, cone walks, balance disk and foam roller.

With regard to the foam roller I have one of these http://www.tptherapy.com/smrt-core-product-foam-roller.html

Initially using one of these is agony, but it does get easier. I started just doing a couple of rolls on each body part,but the time I can spend on the muscles has increased and they seem to be getting smoother. I would also point out that I find using one a pretty good shoulder/upper body work out. Hopefully I am using it correctly and the next step is moving onto using a tennis ball to get into specific problem points in the muscle.

I have also been looking into trying to change my running style. I am a heel runner and perhaps this is one of the reasons I get so many injuries. I'll put up a post and see if I can get any coaching in the Fingal area.

alexanderomahon

So far this week I have continued by rehab as outlined above.

However, I have added weighted steamboats whilst standding on the floor and unwaited ones on a stability disc. Also I have done some gentle cycling ranging from 10 to 20 minutes with the load increading bit by bit.

As mentioned previously I am looking at changing my running technique in the hope it might help avoid injury. I have put up two threads on the subject and got some interesting responses.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057080346
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057073520

The best course of action appears to be doing some form of course to analise my current gait and help make adaptions. I am looking into this option, but it would be expensive.

The second piece of advice I received was to up my cadence (steps per minute) and I have read some interesting stuff on this area. The recommended cadence appears to be around 180.

Given my cycling background, and it's focus on cadence, I have decided to give the idea of upping my cadence a go.

So last night I did my first rehab run in the gym. I did a nice gentle 1 km run at 10km/h pace. I upped my cadence and it was around the 190 mark.

I must say the whole experience felt totally unnatural and quite tiring. I felt I had overnight developed tiny little legs that could only cover short strides. In additon my arms were moving like crazy to keep up with the legs. I think this blur of short distance, fast moving arms and legs must have looked very strange to anybody watching.

All in all the experience was not a pleasent one, however I did feel no pain and have decided to continue with the experiment.

alexanderomahon

REHAB

Been up the gym on the last two days, done my rehab and calf is feeling fine.

My only difficulty is that some of the stretches which are meant to target the Solerus muscle in my calf are not giving me much of a feeling of a stretch. These are the stretches I do with a bent knee. Not sure if this may be due to a lack of flexibility in my ankle. Anyway, I'll do some research, but if anybody has any ideas then let me know.

RUNNING

On the running front I'm running on a flat treadmill but with zero added cushioning, which is a big change from the full cushioning I was using up to three weeks ago. Hopefully this reflects better the outside surfaces I hope to be running on. The last two days

Sat - 1.5km at 10.1km/h
Sun - 2.1 km at between 10.1 and 10.5

I again focused on cadence and was generally around 182. For a short time I ran in my traditional manner, just to compare, and my cadence was around 160.

I must say trying to run in this new manner is not enjoyable for a number of reasons.

1) It feels very unnatural.

2) It is very tiring. Three weeks ago I got up to running 15km and completing 5km in under 24min. Today, I struggled to finish 2.1k and the sweat was dripping off me.

3) I am having to think about quite a few things when I'm running.
a) cadence and counting my steps every few minutes
b) mid foot striking
c) trying to keep an upright posture (raising hands above my head every so often to reset/check posture)
d) not focusing on when foot lands but on when it leaves the floor.

4) I'm missing opening up my stride and feeling like I'm motoring. With this high cadence approach don't know if I will ever have this feeling again.

5) My legs feel very heavy and stiff, probably due to making them move in a whole new way. In fact my left hamstring felt a bit tight so I will need to take care of that.

So if anybody has changed their cadence I would be interested in hearing how you handled the change.

alexanderomahon

Ran 2.7 km in 15 minutes with a cadence just over 180.

TOO MUCH INFO



I am feeling completely frustrated with trying to switch to midfoot running with a cadence around 180.

I outlined above that I was not enjoying the switch and after today I'm even more confused and disenchanted.

This evening I began feeling discomfort in my left achilles. This is a real concern because it was problems in this area, that a number of years ago, caused me to give up running and take up cycling.

So what do I do? I head off to Google and I look up cadence, midfoot running and achilles pain. What do I find? Midfoot running with higher cadence can lead to achilles and calf pain/injury.

So, the internet is telling me everything I want to hear. If I want reasons to switch running style then I find them. If I want reasons not to change I find them. I find arguments and counter arguments for everything and then my body is also chipping in with an opinion, as is my own mind.

All in all I am simply bewitched, bothered and bewildered by this whole running thing.

Laois_Man

I have been reading your log with interest (just so you know someone is reading it and interested )

And if you'll accept some comments from one injury prone runner to another....

Your November 5th log entry struck me as very odd. Specifically this bit.....

alexanderomahon wrote: »

Three runs per week
one steady run of 6 to 8 km = about 10.6 to 11.2 km/h
one long run at around 10.6 - 11 km/h - got up to 15 km
one fast run of 5 km - got down to under 24 min 12km/h

By my quick calculations, the pace of your steady run and your long run differ by only 3 seconds per KM. To my mind, with the help of this calculator and based on a 23:59 time for 5K, your Long run pace should be in and around 6:28 per KM - but your long run pace above is actually 5:33 per Km (so that's 9.3 KPH versus 10.8 KPH to use the notation you prefer).

By "Steady" runs, I think you mean Tempo runs and the calculator suggests these should be run at 5:04 per KM (or 11.84 KPH) pace. Yet this is almost the same as your "fast" run. So it seems to me that you're training runs are too fast, too often and I think this may be contributing to your injuries (because I think it has to mine also)

As regards your "Fast Run" above....the maths above don't quite add up because 5K in 23:59 would be more than 12.5 KPH on average....and I assume you went even a few seconds faster than that.

From my point pf view, I also have issues with bio mechanics. But not in the sense that I am a heel striker. I am an over pronator and I have tried helping it with orthotic insoles that my physio gave me and after using them for the 2-3 months since I came back from my latest injury, I can safely say they're utterly useless. So I am still looking at ways to resolve it and I'm blue in the face reading about it. One minute I'm thinking I should visit Amphibian King in Ballymount and see what they make of me. And then I find this article which makes me think it might be wiser to see someone more qualified and who I might have more confidence in ( sounds expensive and hard to find). The long and the short of it is.....with contradictory advise about this kind of stuff all over the internet, you are not alone in your frustrations and I feel your pain But it gets to the stage where we just have to take a leap of fate, take a calculated gamble on a particular course of action - and try it out over a prolonged period of time. Because if we confined ourselves to trying only the things that the internet approved of, we'd never do a single thing!

average_runner

You should maybe read a book call run faster run less, from runnersworld. It deals with training 3 times a week.

If your picking up injuries, your schedule could be too tough for you at the moment, so maybe drop the steady run for an easy run. Easy runs are great as they improve your aerobic fitness.

I think you should use the parkrun in your schedule maybe every 3 weeks as a race and the other weeks as a tempo. Easier to do tempo in a crowd.

Also consider a step back week where every 4th week is a recovery week, say 3 runs and easy pace no further than 5k.

T runner

Training with a gradient on a treadmill is a good way to build up teh strenght to avoid injury while avoiding the pounding that normally goes with flat running. Keep the gradient low (e.g 3%) so you can avoid achilles aggravation. The gradient should always be 1% to simulate flat outdoors anyway. Youll need to train on road eventually. But use treadmill, grass, trail etc first to build up injury resistant strenght.
Build up very gradually. The skeletal and musculature system can only handle slow adaptions (less than 10% weekly mileage increase rule)
This rule is actually a huge oppurtunity. If you increase well below this range you will slolwy increase volume and improve getting several months of consistant training in the bag. Best of luck.

Is there a minimum trainng level you can do that will definately avoid injury for you? Start there, build up very slolwy. Do core work to satisfy any restlessness. Just stay a few steps behind the injuries.

pgmcpq

Missed this log earlier. Great to see another log from a veteran !

Yes, switching to mid foot does put more strain on the achilles and calf. You may need to phase it in especially with an injury history in this area. Also it sounds like maybe you are overdoing it a bit - focusing simply on getting off heel landing can cause you to land too far forward.

An approach that worked for me was this :

http://www.active.com/running/articles/sensory-cues

The focus is more holistic rather than just adjust your foot fall (and maybe causing a compensating strain/injury elsewhere). But even with this the key is patience and avoiding dramatic changes. Unfortunately for us ... eh ... mature ... folk the body does not respond well to dramatic changes.

And put the foot podometer aside for a while and don't drive yourself nuts with it !

alexanderomahon

average_runner wrote: »

You should maybe read a book call run faster run less, from runnersworld. It deals with training 3 times a week.

If your picking up injuries, your schedule could be too tough for you at the moment, so maybe drop the steady run for an easy run. Easy runs are great as they improve your aerobic fitness.

I think you should use the parkrun in your schedule maybe every 3 weeks as a race and the other weeks as a tempo. Easier to do tempo in a crowd.

Also consider a step back week where every 4th week is a recovery week, say 3 runs and easy pace no further than 5k.

Thanks for the input. I have bought the Run Faster, Run Less book and was attracted by the idea of three runs per week combining with cross training.

When reading the book I also liked the idea that the three runs are aimed at being quality over quantity. However, I think you are right in saying I did too much too soon. Slow and steady wins the race.!

alexanderomahon

pgmcpq wrote: »

Missed this log earlier. Great to see another log from a veteran !

Yes, switching to mid foot does put more strain on the achilles and calf. You may need to phase it in especially with an injury history in this area. Also it sounds like maybe you are overdoing it a bit - focusing simply on getting off heel landing can cause you to land too far forward.

An approach that worked for me was this :

http://www.active.com/running/articles/sensory-cues

The focus is more holistic rather than just adjust your foot fall (and maybe causing a compensating strain/injury elsewhere). But even with this the key is patience and avoiding dramatic changes. Unfortunately for us ... eh ... mature ... folk the body does not respond well to dramatic changes.

And put the foot podometer aside for a while and don't drive yourself nuts with it !

Think you hit it on the head here pg. Trying to do too much of too many things. I think heading back to where I was just prior to my injury is what I need to do and then slowly start to alter things such as cadence, how my feet land and getting used to harder surfaces.

alexanderomahon

Laois_Man wrote: »

I have been reading your log with interest (just so you know someone is reading it and interested )

And if you'll accept some comments from one injury prone runner to another....

Your November 5th log entry struck me as very odd. Specifically this bit.....





By my quick calculations, the pace of your steady run and your long run differ by only 3 seconds per KM. To my mind, with the help of this calculator and based on a 23:59 time for 5K, your Long run pace should be in and around 6:28 per KM - but your long run pace above is actually 5:33 per Km (so that's 9.3 KPH versus 10.8 KPH to use the notation you prefer).

By "Steady" runs, I think you mean Tempo runs and the calculator suggests these should be run at 5:04 per KM (or 11.84 KPH) pace. Yet this is almost the same as your "fast" run. So it seems to me that you're training runs are too fast, too often and I think this may be contributing to your injuries (because I think it has to mine also)

As regards your "Fast Run" above....the maths above don't quite add up because 5K in 23:59 would be more than 12.5 KPH on average....and I assume you went even a few seconds faster than that.

'

Thanks for comments Loais man.

Your right about my quicker run and I did give the wrong average pace. I try to speed up as I go and my final time was just under 24 minutes.

With regard to my two other runs, well I was just feeling my way into developing some kind of basic programme and I am still very unsure on the terms tempo runs etc.

What I was trying to do was roughly based on some of the things I read around the FIRST programme whereby every run is relatively challenging. Roughly I was trying to do

one fast (for me) 5km run,
One long run at a pace around my hoped for eventual marathon pace
One short run at around my marathon pace.

Not really that scientific an approach, but was happy up till I made all the mistakes I mentioned in my post of 5/11/

alexanderomahon

So following my frustrations, and achilles aggregation mentioned earlier, I have decided to step back a bit on my planned running changes and decided to return to running on the cushioned treadmill until I feel injury free.

For past few days calf has felt fine and I have done eccentric heel drops to help my achilles.

I went up the gym tonight and of course the cushioned treadmill was out of order.

So I had to use the firm treadmill and I did

2km at 10.5km/h
Walked 400m
1km at 10.5km/h

My left achilles did not feel quite right, but better than last time. I might start using my old runners for a while as they are more cushioned with a higher heel.

With regard to my foot landing I think I was still midfoot, but I dropped the cadence to 170 - 174 and this felt a bit more natural.

Hope cushioned treadmill is fixed soon.

alexanderomahon

Right, being doing eccentric heel drops for past couple of days and yesterday went to gym.

I was on the cushioned treadmill
I had on my old trainers

Off I went at 10.5 km/h, didn't focus on cadence and felt really comfortable. After 1 km I checked my cadence and I was at the 180 mark.

This was great as previously running at this cadence had felt really tiring and had me sweating. Whereas this time it felt really easy, in fact so easy I raised the angle to 1.

All going well till 1.9 km when outside of ankle felt bit sore. I carried on to 2.1 km and discomfort spread to achilles. So I stopped.

Today I was hobbling slightly and I am back where I was 2 years ago when I gave up running and took up cycling. Looks to me that my hope to run a sub 4 hrs marathon may well be a dream I cannot accomplish.

Anyway, I think I will have to give up running till new year and work on building up my calfs in an attempt to support my achilles. If come January I am unable to run pain free, then it is over.

Mean time I will get back to cycling.

This evening I did 45 minutes on the stationary bike and built up a nice sweat. PAIN FREE

ecoli

Out of interest did you ever get a second opinion from a different therapist/ physio?

Might be no harm to get a fresh set of eyes to have a look on it in case there was something the first physio missed. You might get the same diagnosis but at worst you would be able to discuss a proper rehab programme to try and get to the root issue and try and resolve it.

alexanderomahon

ecoli wrote: »

Out of interest did you ever get a second opinion from a different therapist/ physio?

Might be no harm to get a fresh set of eyes to have a look on it in case there was something the first physio missed. You might get the same diagnosis but at worst you would be able to discuss a proper rehab programme to try and get to the root issue and try and resolve it.

saw a specialist at Cappagh hospital and had mri and 6 months of physio. Problem was thickening of achilles and an internal tear

alexanderomahon

Over the past few days I been back on my bike both in and out of the gym just doing 45 to 70 min rides.

I have also been trying to do some more research on learning to run injury free, especially the Champions Everywhere 2 day workshops.

I've contacted the company and sent them a link to this thread and they feel I should be able to benefit from the course. I have also tried contacting a couple of people who have done the course and tried to find out if there have been long term benefits. The one response I have got has been very supportive of the programme.

As part of my research I have also read articles and watched videos from CE. One point raised was that they believe all work on improving running form should be done in bare feet on firm surfaces. So tonight I did a bit of barefoot running on the treadmill.

I did 500m at 10.5kmh, walked 100m, 300m at 10.5kmh, walked 100m 200m at 10.5kmh

The experiment went well with no bad side effects as of yet.

alexanderomahon

Woke up after trying the bare foot running last night and surprise surprise my achilles is sore.

Right this time I really mean it and regardless of how well it feels.

NO RUNNING TILL NEW YEAR so I can let my achilles heal

alexanderomahon

Left off any training till 2nd Jan.
Ran 1.5km at 10 kph -achilles not great but okay
4th Jan 2.5 km 10 kph - had to stop with discomfort and fear of doing more damage

I decided to run slower, take walking breaks and use cushioned treadmill
6th Jan did slow 5km in 38 min - walked a fair bit of it
9the Jan 3.5 km in 25 min. Had to stop as achilles/ankle felt uncomfortable after running 2.8 km with no walking.

Have been trying to work on technique avoiding heel striking, but seem to be getting nowhere.

Feeling disillusioned

Oh yeah 5 kg put on in past 6 weeks.

pgmcpq

Immediate question: Is the achilles tear healed ? Honestly ?

Time to take a step back ? If the focus on getting away from heel striking is aggravating the achilles then it's time to knock this on the head. Getting away from heel striking is not a goal in itself.

Reading back it looks like trying to get this right is throwing everything else out of whack and creating more problems. Changing your stride, measuring cadence, barefoot running etc. I'm also not sure if trying to alter stride, begin barefoot is compatible with a cushioned treadmill - though others here could probably give you expert advice.

Bottom line: too much change, too quickly. Even more if you suck the joy out of running you will find it hard to keep it up.

Right now you might need to simply back off and let the achilles heal up.

I have plugged it before ... but again I'd suggest looking at the matt fitzgerald link I posted earlier. Focus on the steps (no pun intended) to improve your running "posture" and much of the rest will slot into place without having to force it.

alexanderomahon

pgmcpq wrote: »

Immediate question: Is the achilles tear healed ? Honestly ?

Time to take a step back ? If the focus on getting away from heel striking is aggravating the achilles then it's time to knock this on the head. Getting away from heel striking is not a goal in itself.

Reading back it looks like trying to get this right is throwing everything else out of whack and creating more problems. Changing your stride, measuring cadence, barefoot running etc. I'm also not sure if trying to alter stride, begin barefoot is compatible with a cushioned treadmill - though others here could probably give you expert advice.

Bottom line: too much change, too quickly. Even more if you suck the joy out of running you will find it hard to keep it up.

Right now you might need to simply back off and let the achilles heal up.

I have plugged it before ... but again I'd suggest looking at the matt fitzgerald link I posted earlier. Focus on the steps (no pun intended) to improve your running "posture" and much of the rest will slot into place without having to force it.

Thanks for input pgmcpq. I've decided I can't do this on my own and I'm going to do the Champions Everywhere course on running injury free. http://www.championseverywhere.com/running_workshop

Hopefully I'll listen to what they have to say.

ecoli

alexanderomahon wrote: »

Thanks for input pgmcpq. I've decided I can't do this on my own and I'm going to do the Champions Everywhere course on running injury free. http://www.championseverywhere.com/running_workshop

Hopefully I'll listen to what they have to say.

Have been to one of their workshops before and have to say the Tony and Rene know their stuff. Overall it wasn't for me but I reckon given your injury history it is definitely worth a try. Its a long road to build up properly (then again so is any worth while training approach)

Best of luck with it

alexanderomahon

ecoli wrote: »

Have been to one of their workshops before and have to say the Tony and Rene know their stuff. Overall it wasn't for me but I reckon given your injury history it is definitely worth a try. Its a long road to build up properly (then again so is any worth while training approach)

Best of luck with it

Ecoli could you tell me in what way did you feel it was not for you and how long is that long road!!!!

ecoli

alexanderomahon wrote: »

Ecoli could you tell me in what way did you feel it was not for you and how long is that long road!!!!

Before I answer I should clarify that my opinions here are based on one single talk and as such I it is personal opinion and I don't claim it to be a definitive one.

When I say I felt it was not for me this was in no way down to the validity of the approach but simply not the most beneficial approach in my case. Unlike many who take this approach I was turning to it as a result of injury but rather it was more a case of trying to enhance my perspective as a sports therapist myself and as such it for research purposes only. I am lucky enough to have a relatively low rate of injury myself and the rewards didn't justify the cost. Effectively I would have had to take a step back to prepare the body to be ready to take on this sort of training before gradually building up mileage to the point where I am effectively back to the point that I am now so for me personally I think in the short term (meaning next 5 years) the result would have stagnation in my performance. However if you are coming from a point where constant niggles and injuries are inhibiting training then this sort of approach if worked would see you achieve a higher level of fitness within months simply from being able to train.

With regards long road basically I mean that the techniques used will basically retrain basic movements, first in terms of you general posture, followed by movement. Things such as ankle mobility and weight distribution amongst metatarsals play a key role so effectively you need to train your body to be able to train before you actually get down to training.

Their idea's on basic movement patterns are interesting concepts also I was some what conflicted on these, while my knowledge on muscle action (contractile characteristics) had me thinking it made sense, I felt it didn't take into account basic sprint mechanics by disregarding things such as the drive phase which as a sprints coach is prevalent in my training of athletes (again I only got a brief glimpse into this at the talk and as such these are only initial thoughts without having the benefits of delving into the research and application behind it)

What did appeal to me was the fact that these techniques are designed in conjunction with a very solid and reputable running philosophy unlike many of these types of approaches which are based around a clinical setting without real world applications (running as a sport is not one that takes place in a lab)

Hope this insight helps.

alexanderomahon

Cheers ecoili, that was great and thanks for taking the time to share your experience.

menoscemo

I also did one of their workshops and like Ecoli, wasn't prepared to follow through on the philosophy. I had signed up when injured and desperate, but by the time I did the course I had already been running painfree for a few months (in fact I had just set a Marathon PB) so I wasn't prepared to start again from scratch. Thankfully (touchwood) I haven't really been injured since.

In saying the above I still took a lot out of the course regards running form, excercises and potential causes of injuries so I don't regret doing the course

I think for yourself who is chronically injured the course will have a very positive benefit. Best of luck with it and let us know how you get on.

alexanderomahon

Will do meno

InTheTrees

I'm in a similar (but different!) place;

52 years old. 11.8stone (165lbs). Up until last August I was doing 5K, five or 6 times a week and taking about 26 minutes. Then over the period of a couple of weeks I started upping the distance (blame the nice summer) and switched from pavement to uneven terrain. After about a week my left Achilles got sore and over the course of a week got worse and I stopped.
The injury wasnt bad, maybe 1.5 out of ten, more ache than pain, it was a very mild strain, but I've learned to take these things seriously and so I started babying it. After about a month the ache left my achilles and moved to the (lower?) achilles area in the arch of the foot and its progressively faded away from there.
All well and good. The rehab running is my issue now. I have no desire to go any further than 10k. My goal is to get to a place where I can run for around an hour five or six times a week. No marathons for me.
So I'm doing a basic rehab, running on the treadmill every third day, very gentle (its only a small amount of effort greater than a beginners c25k), the first week is no more than 2 miles total, second week about 2.5, its really slow and gentle (i'm only going a little faster than trotting) and if there's any hint of even a mild ache I stop and wait until its completely gone +2days.

Its slow and a little frustrating but its also a product of age I believe, we just have to be more careful and in addition its an issue thats never going to go away. Dealing with the deterioration of the body is a very sobering thing but also extremely satisfying as you come to terms with how the body ages.

InTheTrees

Laois_Man wrote: »

So it seems to me that you're training runs are too fast, too often and I think this may be contributing to your injuries (because I think it has to mine also)

This was my thought too. Possibly even the sole (pardon the pun) reason.

alexanderomahon

InTheTrees wrote: »

Dealing with the deterioration of the body is a very sobering thing but also extremely satisfying as you come to terms with how the body ages.

Is this Wisdom or defeatism. I hope defeatism but suspect wisdom

InTheTrees

alexanderomahon wrote: »

Is this Wisdom or defeatism. I hope defeatism but suspect wisdom

Wisdom I'm afraid...

pgmcpq

InTheTrees wrote: »

Wisdom I'm afraid...

I'd have to disagree. I'm 50 in a couple of weeks ( yeah just a kid ). I do agree that you need to thinks a little differently but I don't buy into the deterioration of the body - especially as I know two 80+ runners (one of whom I shared a couple of miles with this morning)

I know I cannot skip a warmup or a post run stretch without consequences -e.g before a 5k race I would do a 2 miles warmup (and actually this was suggested by my then 79 year old buddy). I do a lot of running on packed earth in the last couple of years and avoid concretely like the plague ( ...still nothing unique to older runners here), do core work, and (try to) keep the weight in check.

And yes - injury rehab seems to take longer (but when did it ever go quickly ?).

If you decide that deterioration is inevitable ... then it's fairly certain that what will result. After all younger people never get injured do they .

Bah ... kids today .

ecoli

pgmcpq wrote: »

I'd have to disagree. I'm 50 in a couple of weeks ( yeah just a kid ). I do agree that you need to thinks a little differently but I don't buy into the deterioration of the body - especially as I know two 80+ runners (one of whom I shared a couple of miles with this morning)

I know I cannot skip a warmup or a post run stretch without consequences -e.g before a 5k race I would do a 2 miles warmup (and actually this was suggested by my then 79 year old buddy). I do a lot of running on packed earth in the last couple of years and avoid concretely like the plague ( ...still nothing unique to older runners here), do core work, and (try to) keep the weight in check.

And yes - injury rehab seems to take longer (but when did it ever go quickly ?).

If you decide that deterioration is inevitable ... then it's fairly certain that what will result. After all younger people never get injured do they .

Bah ... kids today .

Have to agree with this coaching a 50+ runner who has managed to PB in their last two marathons taking it down by more than 18 min. Yes there are bumps and niggles which need to be managed but its about being smarter with your training - this should be a philosophy no matter what age you are

InTheTrees

pgmcpq wrote: »

I'd have to disagree. I'm 50 in a couple of weeks ( yeah just a kid ). I do agree that you need to thinks a little differently but I don't buy into the deterioration of the body - especially as I know two 80+ runners (one of whom I shared a couple of miles with this morning)

Perhaps I shouldn't have used such a negative word as "deteriorate".

But you only have to look at a heart rate chart to see that our bodies...age... with advancing years. Or look at race times.

(And I hope also to be running into my 80's.)

alexanderomahon

Just booked my place on The Champions Everywhere course on running injury free.
http://www.championseverywhere.com/running_workshop

In preparation for the course I have been advised to try and follow the squatting and jumping exercises from vivobarefoot.com

http://www.vivobarefoot.com/eu/learn/the-skill-of-movement/walk-before-you-can-run