Are water shortages preparing us for water charges?

ElvisChrist6

These water shortages, I have a feeling they're going to be used to get people to think "Oh, well I'll be glad to pay for water now it's guaranteed to be running. I'm just glad I have it now!". The problem is, I'd say it'll work. People are going to pay the charges, some people don't see why we shouldn't. Am I a conspiracy theory nutcase? Are the shortages real?

Or have they been created by aliens?!

darkpagandeath

The mats they use for filtering the water in the settling tanks keeps floating to the top and blocking the next stage of the process.... You would think they would secure them down with i dunno cable ties ??

Akrasia

It's more likely to have the opposite effect
"why should I pay a water charge, they can't even provide me with water"

jimgoose

Jim Corr was on the beer for three days and now has a ragin' thirsht on 'im, horse. That's the cause of the current shortage. FACT. (See what I did there??) And if people are of the belief that suddenly having to pay for this water shambles will render future such shortages archaic going forward, then I have an interesting little bridge in San Francisco that my father left to me, God rest him, and that I can let you have for not many dolla. :cool:

wazky

Akrasia wrote: »

It's more likely to have the opposite effect
"why should I pay a water charge, they can't even provide me with water"

Why should we pay for a service when it doesn't work?, and before you say "oh the money raised will be going in to maintaining the water supply", it wont.

ger vallely

I think we ought to pay for water. Here in the outback of county Galway I pay yearly. I've no problem with that. It costs to get it to homes and to keep it clean. Thing is-when it's compulsory for the whole country to pay- will the water be consistently drinkable and not in short supply?

c_man

ger vallely wrote: »

I think we ought to pay for water.

You have been, everybody has been paying. Or did you think that the equipment and labour involved in the water supply has been provided for by some charity?

Spring Onion

These shortages will force the issue of Jackeens stealing the tasty water from the River Shannon. There will be a pipeline down to Athlone fairly soon and the once mighty river will be drained to feed the water guzzling Love/Hate wannabes in our filthy capital city.

I hope you are all happy when the perch, pike and bream are flapping manically in a puddle of mud in their last seconds on earth.

There will be blood!

ElvisChrist6

wazky wrote: »

Why should we pay for a service when it doesn't work?, and before you say "oh the money raised will be going in to maintaining the water supply", it wont.

Sadly, I think a lot of people will think that!

c_man wrote: »

You have been, everybody has been paying. Or did you think that the equipment and labour involved in the water supply has been provided for by some charity?

Equipment and labour is one thing, but charging for the water is another entirely.

A few years ago, John Gormley said the only thing he's ever been right about. He said we SHOULDN'T pay for water, but if it came to it and we absolutely had to, he'd like to see a certain supply of water for everyone that they won't get charged for, and get charged minimally for any extra water they use over that.

Jester252

Every since we had to pay for our water via a private scheme we haven't had a single shortage. I guess giving the water to the guys paying for it made more sense that giving it to the rest of the population who where getting it for free.

zl1whqvjs75cdy

Aren't you charged by use of water anyway with the meter outside your house. If the water is off you aren't using any so you aren't paying.

Cool_CM

ElvisChrist6 wrote: »

These water shortages, I have a feeling they're going to be used to get people to think "Oh, well I'll be glad to pay for water now it's guaranteed to be running. I'm just glad I have it now!". The problem is, I'd say it'll work. People are going to pay the charges, some people don't see why we shouldn't. Am I a conspiracy theory nutcase? Are the shortages real?

Or have they been created by aliens?!

When the emergency services have to ask for the water to be turned on again for one of their busiest nights of the year, I would imagine it is real, yes.

darkpagandeath

Will you still have to pay for your water when you have to boil it ? that happens alot in some parts of the country ? its not clean then is it

ElvisChrist6

Cool_CM wrote: »

When the emergency services have to ask for the water to be turned on again for one of their busiest nights of the year, I would imagine it is real, yes.

That bit was facetious, going along with the conspiracy theory thing. But will it be used/will it act as preparation for people to accept water charges?

Jester252

TBF this water shortage doesn't effect anyone outside Dublin so I doubt its a way to scare people into ponying up when they can just cut off your water of you don't pay. It just a standard issue at the plant no devious motives behind it.

ger vallely

c_man- yeah,cool,I thought the church gate collections covered it,silly me.

sdanseo

Dublin must have run out of fluoride, and they don't want us getting used to normal water again.

Fighting Irish

ElvisChrist6 wrote: »

These water shortages, I have a feeling they're going to be used to get people to think "Oh, well I'll be glad to pay for water now it's guaranteed to be running. I'm just glad I have it now!". The problem is, I'd say it'll work. People are going to pay the charges, some people don't see why we shouldn't. Am I a conspiracy theory nutcase? Are the shortages real?

Or have they been created by aliens?!

You should get a job with the daily mirror or someone like that

dobman88

Originally Posted by ElvisChrist6

These water shortages, I have a feeling they're going to be used to get people to think "Oh, well I'll be glad to pay for water now it's guaranteed to be running. I'm just glad I have it now!". The problem is, I'd say it'll work. People are going to pay the charges, some people don't see why we shouldn't. Am I a conspiracy theory nutcase? Are the shortages real?

Or have they been created by aliens?!

We are probably one of the only countries in Europe NOT paying water charges. Fairly standard in general and was gonna happen eventually

BeerWolf

I find the whole concept of 'water shortage' in IRELAND just baffling...

B.A._Baracus

Why is there a water shortage anyways?
Been some decent rain lately. You can understand a water shortage in the summer after, well if we are lucky, a week or two of hot weather.

But in October with rain? I'm sure there is some BS reason to hide the real reason.

murpho999

Why don't people realise that there is not a problem with the quantity of water available of it but the quality of it.

It doesn't just go straight from the sky to your tap.

padd b1975

ger vallely wrote: »

Thing is-when it's compulsory for the whole country to pay- will the water be consistently drinkable and not in short supply?

It bloody well better be!

shruikan2553

murpho999 wrote: »

Why don't people realise that there is not a problem with the quantity of water available of it but the quality of it.

It doesn't just go straight from the sky to your tap.

Maybe when we pay for water it will be of such quality.

warbuttons

This is a very interesting debate. I do believe that this 'water shortage' will absolutely be used when it comes to arguing for water charges. Dublin has the largest population in the country, so convincing people here that its a good idea will more than likely snowball the idea countrywide. I don't think that saying 'we're one of the only countries in Europe to not have water charges' should justify it. So what if we don't have water charges? This isn't Dubai.... we're surrounded by water, it rains here all the time. We're in a completely different situation to 'most european countries'. God forbid we could just make our own decisions and stop looking over our shoulders for once. The rest of Europe also hasn't gotten shafted economically as much as we have also.
We all know that this is another product of the IMF/EU bailout. Google it and see for yourself what these guys do when they roll into any country to 'stabilize the economy'. Privatization of Water, Decimation and Privatization of Natural Resources (Forrests, Gas etc..) , Household Taxes, gradual reduction in quality of social services, and a generally lower quality in life is always part of their gameplan to gain control over an economy and people of a country. Are we seriously still confused about whats happening here???

I do think however that if this is something that is going to happen and more than likely, knowing the sheepish qualities of the irish population, unavoidable.. it should be debated. We should should talk about quality of water and what people expect from their water especially if they have to pay for it. We should have a right to choose whether we want Fluoride added to the water. This is a major issue for alot of people.. not just just some conspiracy theorists.
We all know that the cost of fixing the current pipes and water system is far less than the cost of the meter installation... so in reality the truth of the matter is that it has nothing to do with water quality and supply... and everything to do with extracting more cash from the Irish people to pay back a debt that isn't ours to people we dont know.

I would love to live in a country where the people would just make a stand and take control of a situation for once. If everyone simple refuses to pay, then we wont have water charges or household taxes that provide no actual service. However as displayed by this household tax... all the good little Irish potato heads do nothing better than follow the rules set down on them by the rich governing class. Its a sad state of affairs.

mad muffin

There's probably more water in Australia.

galwayrush

Feck the water charges, I got a well bored.:)

Chinasea

no I don't believe it is on purpose, but as usual in Ireland, precious resources are/were taken for granted. No surprises too to see threads like this and speculation floating around inferring that it is a conspiracy to get us to pay for water.

ABajaninCork

Welcome to our world, Dublin! Living in Cork, we've twice had no water due to the dam potentially bursting due to heavy rain. First time in the bad winter of 2010, we had no water in the north of Cork City for TWO WEEKS!!! Imagine having drive down to queue for water at the nearest tanker. Then, when the water runs out having to drive round the city trying to get enough water to cook, wash up and flush yer bog. Oh - and if your boiler was a combi? You're screwed. No central either!!! Fighting to get enough bottled water to drink as the stores can't keep up with the demand. Even now, the water quality isn't brilliant - it's frequently brown!!

The water was eventually fixed, but switched off AGAIN six weeks later for another 10 days. We've had heavy rain here in Cork for the best part of two weeks now, and I'm constantly twitchy the water will go again.

Never had this in London, and I paid water rates! The water companies there know that if the water's cut off for more than 8 hours, then the customers will be entitled to compensation. They don't like paying out, so they're pretty well up to par vis a vis the water supply and quality.

There's not a chance the proposed water charges will go towards fixing the antiquated system, although the money's desperately needed for it. Let's not kid ourselves - it'll be going towards the bailout. It really does make me mad!

warbuttons

Yeah I have friends in Cork and Galway who have had nothing short of a nightmare with their water being turned off.
There's going to be alot of demand for self contained water systems in houses soon. I know a few companies are starting to invest in the idea. It pisses rain here all the time... why shouldnt we just collect it and use it?
Its also sad to think that these might be the lengths we have to go to in order to get a glass of clean water. No wonder everyones leaving the poxy country.

warbuttons

warbuttons wrote: »

This is a very interesting debate. I do believe that this 'water shortage' will absolutely be used when it comes to arguing for water charges. Dublin has the largest population in the country, so convincing people here that its a good idea will more than likely snowball the idea countrywide. I don't think that saying 'we're one of the only countries in Europe to not have water charges' should justify it. So what if we don't have water charges? This isn't Dubai.... we're surrounded by water, it rains here all the time. We're in a completely different situation to 'most european countries'. God forbid we could just make our own decisions and stop looking over our shoulders for once. The rest of Europe also hasn't gotten shafted economically as much as we have also.
We all know that this is another product of the IMF/EU bailout. Google it and see for yourself what these guys do when they roll into any country to 'stabilize the economy'. Privatization of Water, Decimation and Privatization of Natural Resources (Forrests, Gas etc..) , Household Taxes, gradual reduction in quality of social services, and a generally lower quality in life is always part of their gameplan to gain control over an economy and people of a country. Are we seriously still confused about whats happening here???

I do think however that if this is something that is going to happen and more than likely, knowing the sheepish qualities of the irish population, unavoidable.. it should be debated. We should should talk about quality of water and what people expect from their water especially if they have to pay for it. We should have a right to choose whether we want Fluoride added to the water. This is a major issue for alot of people.. not just just some conspiracy theorists.
We all know that the cost of fixing the current pipes and water system is far less than the cost of the meter installation... so in reality the truth of the matter is that it has nothing to do with water quality and supply... and everything to do with extracting more cash from the Irish people to pay back a debt that isn't ours to people we dont know.

I would love to live in a country where the people would just make a stand and take control of a situation for once. If everyone simple refuses to pay, then we wont have water charges or household taxes that provide no actual service. However as displayed by this household tax... all the good little Irish potato heads do nothing better than follow the rules set down on them by the rich governing class. Its a sad state of affairs.

It's got nothing to with the bailout, it was going to happen eventually without it.

As for the current shortages in Dublin, supply has been pretty much on a knife-edge for a long time and guess how much was spent on it during the boom years? The demand has been constantly increasing and it's not like this is the first time in the last few years that there's been problems. Metering will instantly reduce demand and the initial works on repairing leaks will also make a massive difference. It's easier and more sensible to focus on the demand side rather than the supply side right now.

ABajaninCork

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

Why is there a water shortage anyways?
Been some decent rain lately. You can understand a water shortage in the summer after, well if we are lucky, a week or two of hot weather.

But in October with rain? I'm sure there is some BS reason to hide the real reason.

The BS reason why there's no water is probably due to broken pipes leaking the water out hence the shortage, despite the recent heavy rainfall. The Government will probably tell you there's no money to fix either...

ABajaninCork

ABajaninCork wrote: »

The BS reason why there's no water is probably due to broken pipes leaking the water out hence the shortage, despite the recent heavy rainfall. The Government will probably tell you there's no money to fix either...

It could rain 10x more and there'll still only be the same treatment facilities.

Capt'n Midnight

Yes.

Probably coincidence but it's being milked a bit.

The % difference they talk about is about half that lost through leaks. By turning off the water half the time they've saved half the water lost through leakage.


And yeah during the boom it was all roads, roads when it could have been all the stuff that everyone needs.

GreeBo

a tiny percentage of the cost of getting water is the water itself.
most of the cost is infrastrcture related, so if they were to really charge based on usage, cutting your usage right down wouldnt really save you much. The standing charge has to be very high to cover the operatioal costs.

of course the leaks dont help.
this shortage was caused by an issue with filtration, not a lack of water.

hfallada

I'm sorry but why is anyone surprised? During the boom there was **** all spent on improving water infastructure even the population and industry increased rapidly. I think water charges are good if they are used to develop water infastructure which will help attract industry.

But I have a feeling most of the charges will be used to pay ridiculously high salaries for Irish water workers and be used for the government on paying public sector wages. I hope Irish water is run by an educated business person and not some crusty public sector worker who has climed the ranks. But has no business mind.

darkpagandeath

Maybe the Government could play sim city and realise you need to buy water treatment plants pumps and sewerage treatment and keep expanding it as the city grows.

ABajaninCork

hfallada wrote: »

I'm sorry but why is anyone surprised? During the boom there was **** all spent on improving water infastructure even the population and industry increased rapidly. I think water charges are good if they are used to develop water infastructure which will help attract industry.

But I have a feeling most of the charges will be used to pay ridiculously high salaries for Irish water workers and be used for the government on paying public sector wages. I hope Irish water is run by an educated business person and not some crusty public sector worker who has climed the ranks. But has no business mind.

Now, that would be FAR too logical! Heaven forbid someone who knows the water industry be brought in...

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Maybe the Government could play sim city and realise you need to buy water treatment plants pumps and sewerage treatment and keep expanding it as the city grows.

Don't be silly! This Government won't be doing joined-up thinking like that - It'd blow the one brain cell they have between them!

Femme_Fatale

Yes, I definitely believe time and money and manpower were wasted in deliberately disrupting the water supply, as well as a whole host of secret meetings/documents... and that all of the above is being continued in order to resolve the issue. Just to see whether people would then appreciate the water charges, even though the chances of that are zero.

ABajaninCork wrote: »

Welcome to our world, Dublin! Living in Cork, we've twice had no water due to the dam potentially bursting due to heavy rain. First time in the bad winter of 2010, we had no water in the north of Cork City for TWO WEEKS!!! Imagine having drive down to queue for water at the nearest tanker. Then, when the water runs out having to drive round the city trying to get enough water to cook, wash up and flush yer bog. Oh - and if your boiler was a combi? You're screwed. No central either!!! Fighting to get enough bottled water to drink as the stores can't keep up with the demand. Even now, the water quality isn't brilliant - it's frequently brown!!

The water was eventually fixed, but switched off AGAIN six weeks later for another 10 days.

Lived in Cork all my life - issues with the water are extremely infrequent IMO. I guess it's all relative. To me, it's worse in Galway.
Wouldn't frozen pipes and the release of Inniscarra Dam be separate issues? I'm on the northside too and didn't experience the same problems during the freezing weather as you did (I did experience no water after the Dam was released all right though).

ABajaninCork

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Yes, I definitely believe time and money and manpower were wasted in deliberately disrupting the water supply, as well as a whole host of secret meetings/documents... and that all of the above is being continued in order to resolve the issue. Just to see whether people would then appreciate the water charges, even though the chances of that are zero.

Lived in Cork all my life - issues with the water are extremely infrequent IMO. I guess it's all relative. To me, it's worse in Galway.
Wouldn't frozen pipes and the release of Inniscarra Dam be separate issues? I'm on the northside too and didn't experience the same problems during the freezing weather as you did (I did experience no water after the Dam was released all right though).

The frozen pipes were another issue entirely. That's due to the pipes being laid too shallow and inadequately lagged. Has nothing to do with the issue I mentioned above.

No way should a developed nation be having the water shortages and outages (for whatever reason) we've had. It's frankly absurd.