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Summons for theft

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    #32
    doublej
    Registered Users Posts: 133 ✭✭doublej


    My suggestions were to get a solicitor AND to get a friend to accompany her; the Court system is traumatic for young and ordinarily law abiding people.
    I wouldn't dream of suggesting that she should put herself at a disadvantage by not having proper legal representation.
    If there is a doubt that she meant to pay for the item or if the detention or statement were unlawful then her solicitor can ascertain those facts in their consultation in advance of the case starting.
    My advice to plead guilty was based solely upon her own acknowledgement that she had stolen the lipstick and as such , felt that it was the best course of action rather than delaying the inevitable determination .
    The skies do not always come down when you tell the truth.


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    #33
    Pro Hoc Vice
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,087 ✭✭✭Pro Hoc Vice


    doublej wrote: »
    My suggestions were to get a solicitor AND to get a friend to accompany her; the Court system is traumatic for young and ordinarily law abiding people.
    I wouldn't dream of suggesting that she should put herself at a disadvantage by not having proper legal representation.
    If there is a doubt that she meant to pay for the item or if the detention or statement were unlawful then her solicitor can ascertain those facts in their consultation in advance of the case starting.
    My advice to plead guilty was based solely upon her own acknowledgement that she had stolen the lipstick and as such , felt that it was the best course of action rather than delaying the inevitable determination .
    The skies do not always come down when you tell the truth.

    It is not as simple as turn up on day, the first day in court there are two options 1 indicate a plea and be put back for a plea and sentence 2 make what is called a Garry Doyle application and then adjourn for plea or date.

    Only after getting the Garry Doyle documents can a solicitor advise on a plea.

    I agree it is best to tell the truth, but I'm not sure based on the OP that she intended to steal. This may have been a cry for help a deliberate attempt to be caught, it may have been an error, the OP herself admits paying for everything else, the lipstick had little value, and the OP says she does not know why she did it, on that basis I'm not sure the truth is she did intend to steal, I'm not sure there is the mens rea, of the crime, and on that basis needs a good legal advisor who based on a long chat getting all the information can properly advise.

    I have advised people to plead guilty, but only after seeing all the evidence and most importantly talking to the accused and hearing their story.


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    #34
    Shelflife
    Registered Users Posts: 3,073 ✭✭✭Shelflife


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Not sure but its not too much for such a small case probably 80 euro (not sure).
    If you give him your account that morning he will represent you no problem. Ask one of the garda which one you should go to so you get a good one.
    Probation act is like keeping the crime on record in case you do it again but not giving you a fine or conviction (again I think).

    Don't worry too much as its no big deal. Very minor crime.

    Why is shoplifting seen as a VERY MINOR CRIME ? and its no big deal?

    Sorry as a shopkeeper its theft and it doesnt matter if its €5 or €50, thefts like these happen every week and very few make it to court. thefts like these cost jobs and businesses to be lost or go out of business.

    If someone came up to you everyday and took €10 out of your wallet would you consider that a minor crime?

    hate to see shoplifting treated as a minor irritation rather than the major problem for retailers that it is.


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    #35
    gugleguy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,959 ✭✭✭gugleguy


    Giants like Aldi and Lidl take the loss of apparently "insignificant piffle" seriously as well. This sort of thing DOES impact business decisions taken in Head Office in Germany etc.


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    #36
    Holsten
    Registered Users Posts: 4,971 ✭✭✭Holsten


    Find yourself some proper legal representation.

    You want the least amount of punishment they can legally give you, and that is what a solicitor will try to do for you.


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    #37
    Cody Pomeray
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,648 ✭✭✭Cody Pomeray


    Shelflife wrote: »
    Why is shoplifting seen as a VERY MINOR CRIME ? and its no big deal?

    Sorry as a shopkeeper its theft and it doesnt matter if its €5 or €50, thefts like these happen every week and very few make it to court. thefts like these cost jobs and businesses to be lost or go out of business.

    If someone came up to you everyday and took €10 out of your wallet would you consider that a minor crime?

    hate to see shoplifting treated as a minor irritation rather than the major problem for retailers that it is.
    I'm sorry for any person who is the victim of theft. I fully understand the motivation of the store in question, who I understand unfailingly pursue alleged shoplifters, and is a PR tactic that has probably saved them a lot of turnover.

    Nevertheless, I think your "it doesn't matter if it's €5 or €50" narrative is a little overblown. Of course it matters. Legislators, public prosecutors, and the courts use the magnitude of damage inflicted in order to to distinguish how they treat different types of crime all the time. It's a cornerstone of our justice system.

    It is regrettable that people do not have a more speedy, effective, and modern remedy available to them, and one which would not be so disproprotionately wasteful of public revenues, which is what this is.


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    #38
    Forgiveusall.
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 20 ✭Forgiveusall.


    Shelflife wrote: »
    Why is shoplifting seen as a VERY MINOR CRIME ? and its no big deal?

    Sorry as a shopkeeper its theft and it doesnt matter if its €5 or €50, thefts like these happen every week and very few make it to court. thefts like these cost jobs and businesses to be lost or go out of business.

    If someone came up to you everyday and took €10 out of your wallet would you consider that a minor crime?

    hate to see shoplifting treated as a minor irritation rather than the major problem for retailers that it is.

    God almighty?! Says a lot about our state that the organs of it are wasting their time with this-that we have no minimum figures for prosecution. We had 12 guards working in White collar crime section 2012.ONLY 12. Big companies -supermarkets have been ripping us off for years with highest EU prices and screwing their suppliers all in the name of what?
    I have sympathy for a local shop but as for the big guys-none.
    Do I steal? No. Is it right from them? Debatable as real stealing occurs all around us...


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    #39
    MissSilly
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭MissSilly


    I got sorted guys.. Contacted the Garda who questioned me the first day.. went over my statement and the summons has been abolished and Im getting an adult caution. Thanks for the advice.


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    #40
    Pro Hoc Vice
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,087 ✭✭✭Pro Hoc Vice


    MissSilly wrote: »
    I got sorted guys.. Contacted the Garda who questioned me the first day.. went over my statement and the summons has been abolished and Im getting an adult caution. Thanks for the advice.

    Just a bit of advice, turn up to court on the date of the summons, make sure your case is not listed, if it is go to Garda remind him of what was said and wait till matter is struck out.


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    #41
    MissSilly
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭MissSilly


    I have to go to a District meeting in the next couple of weeks where they will issue the adult caution. The Garda said the Summons had been retracted by him and I signed an amended statement.


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    #42
    Pro Hoc Vice
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,087 ✭✭✭Pro Hoc Vice


    MissSilly wrote: »
    I have to go to a District meeting in the next couple of weeks where they will issue the adult caution. The Garda said the Summons had been retracted by him and I signed an amended statement.

    I may be wrong but a summons can not be retracted, I remember on Judge who used to go mental when AGS asked him to strike out the summons. I believe what happens is that on the date the AGS tell the court there is no prosecution and the matter is struck out, the reason I say turn up it has been know for an error to have been made.


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    #43
    Santa Cruz
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,126 ✭✭✭Santa Cruz


    infosys wrote: »
    I may be wrong but a summons can not be retracted, I remember on Judge who used to go mental when AGS asked him to strike out the summons. I believe what happens is that on the date the AGS tell the court there is no prosecution and the matter is struck out, the reason I say turn up it has been know for an error to have been made.


    The prosecution can withdraw a charge at any time. Just clarify with the Superintendent that the case will not be going any further


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    #44
    Pro Hoc Vice
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,087 ✭✭✭Pro Hoc Vice


    Santa Cruz wrote: »
    The prosecution can withdraw a charge at any time. Just clarify with the Superintendent that the case will not be going any further

    I may be wrong but the only thing that can happen to the summons is the matter goes on or its struck out. I have had to run around a District to get a judge to extend time becauese it was forgotten by AGS to withdraw the case and strick it out. The summons has issued, to be safe I ALWAYS advise that people turn up when it's agreed to strike the matter out just in case. I have had a number of clients who had been banned from driving after agreeing to a strike out, 99% of the time it is struck out but errors happen.


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