What were Irish Rail playing at today? (Gripe about Longford commute)

SeanW

Greets amgios;

I had to work today as things are getting a bit pressured at the office, but they let me come in around lunchtime because Irish Rail didn't have any trains coming into Dublin before ~12:10PM which in itself was just wonderful. :mad: Along with no DART connection and the bloody marathon :mad: :mad:

But that train, the first of the day, was only 3 cars long and it was almost full by the time I got it in Longford. After Edgeworthstown, (through Mullingar, Kilcock and Enfield inwards) it was absolutely jammers, with people standing from Mullingar onwards.

It was so bad that even in Maynooth, where they usually use the Sligo train as a rat-run to avoid the local stopping services, I think some of them got on, saw how FUBAR it was, then decided to take their local train instead.

Going home it was the exact opposite, a 6 car train with almost noone onboard. What the heck?

Five Lamps

What's the norm for a bank holiday?

What's wrong with standing on a commuter train - pretty normal the world over?

cmore123

Longford's a bit of a hike as a commuter........

Five Lamps

cmore123 wrote: »

Longford's a bit of a hike as a commuter........

He was commuting to work! According to Irish Rail and thanks to the Celtic Tiger, Mullingar and Longford seem to be on the commuter network.

Banjoxed

Five Lamps wrote: »

He was commuting to work! According to Irish Rail and thanks to the Celtic Tiger, Mullingar and Longford seem to be on the commuter network.

Maybe they should fold up their houses and move to avoid causing Internet offence then?

SeanW

Five Lamps wrote: »

What's the norm for a bank holiday?

Don't know, this is the first time I tried it.

What's wrong with standing on a commuter train - pretty normal the world over?

For over an hour?

Zebra3

SeanW wrote: »

It was so bad that even in Maynooth, where they usually use the Sligo train as a rat-run to avoid the local stopping services,

You make seem like you have a problem with people using a service provided to them by Irish Rail.

Jamie2k9

Capacity would be on previous bank holiday loadings, the reason for the evening 6 car is that high numbers would of travelled back on the afternoon service from Sligo.

SeanW

Zebra3 wrote: »

You make seem like you have a problem with people using a service provided to them by Irish Rail.

No, it's just something I've noticed.

LXFlyer

The six piece sets would all have been used on the later trains from Sligo that would have had higher loadings than that train.

Three of the six piece sets then have to get back to Sligo for the early morning services on Tuesday morning, hence they operate on the 16:00, 17:05 and 19:05 from Connolly.

dowlingm

Zebra3 wrote: »

You make seem like you have a problem with people using a service provided to them by Irish Rail.

I wouldn't mind seeing IE give priority boarding to longer distance travellers in situations like that.

Hilly Bill

dowlingm wrote: »

I wouldn't mind seeing IE give priority boarding to longer distance travellers in situations like that.

How would that work?

SeanW

Like how Bus Eireann handles stops at Heuston for long distance services terminating at Busarus, or indeed how the New Haven Line of New York City's "Metro North Railroad" handles stops at Fordham in the Bronx.

"Inbound trains stop to discharge passengers only"
"Outbound trains stop to pick up passengers only"

On Metro North, Fordham-Grand Central tickets cannot be used on New Haven Line trains that make the Fordham stop.

I'm not actually complaining about it in Maynooth because all the long haulers already have their seats going in, and the Maynooth rat runners don't use the outbound long distance trains in great enough numbers to matter. Sometimes going out as many people join the train in Maynooth travelling West as get off from Connolly.

But for the poor eejits that depend on the Wexford and Wicklow services, they have to contend with large numbers of rat runners using their trains as Dun Laoghaire expresses.

MDFM

OP..Did you get on the train in Longford? It came from Sligo so I take it?

Hilly Bill

You can bet that the train will be packed by Mullingar in the morning as well.

MDFM

Hilly Bill wrote: »

You can bet that the train will be packed by Mullingar in the morning as well.

Which train? 1st & 2nd train from Longford will have plenty of room for Mullingar passengers, both should be 6 car trains in morning.

Hilly Bill

Which one was a 3 or 4 piece this morning? either first or second out of Sligo.

SeanW

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Which one was a 3 or 4 piece this morning? either first or second out of Sligo.

First Sligo-Dublin one was 4 cars.

Neon_Lights

5.15pm commuter to longford from connolly.... always get a seat.... best train to coolmine ever!

LXFlyer

The 3pce sets normally operate the 11:00, 13:00 and 18:00 from Sligo, and the 08:00, 13:05 and 15:05 from Dublin.

This would have changed on the bank holiday as I said due to the changed loading patterns.

Hilly Bill

SeanW wrote: »

First Sligo-Dublin one was 4 cars.

The 4 piece 07.00 out of Sligo was apparently overcrowded after Mullingar today.

Jamie2k9

Hilly Bill wrote: »

The 4 piece 07.00 out of Sligo was apparently overcrowded after Mullingar today.

Surly the 09.00 departure from Sligo and the 19.05 from Connolly would be the best suited to 4 car trains.

Zebra3

dowlingm wrote: »

I wouldn't mind seeing IE give priority boarding to longer distance travellers in situations like that.

They do have priority. They have more chance of getting a seat.

LXFlyer

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Surly the 09.00 departure from Sligo and the 19.05 from Connolly would be the best suited to 4 car trains.

Presumably they're short a set or two due to the reformation process.

I'd expect that the 05:45 and 17:05 would stay as six piece sets.

Hilly Bill

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Surly the 09.00 departure from Sligo and the 19.05 from Connolly would be the best suited to 4 car trains.

The 19.05 is a busy train and can be nearly full as a six piece in Connolly.

The 07.00 3 piece out of Sligo goes out as the 11.05 out of Connolly and can be fairly empty and wouldnt even fill 2 carriages at times.

SeanW

Zebra3 wrote: »

They do have priority. They have more chance of getting a seat.

Inbound. Outbound it's another matter, though thankfully it doesn't affect the Sligo/Longford services in any real way.

Problem is it surely does for Wexford services and Enterprise services, and without a "stops to drop off/pick up passengers only" mechanism there's no solution for when it does.

dowlingm

Hilly Bill wrote: »

How would (priority boarding) work?

Two queues at the gate
1. All stations past Maynooth and all holders of seat reservations for Maynooth
2. Maynooth travellers without reserved seats

Queue 1 would be invited to board first, but would convert to general boarding with 5 or so minutes to go before departure (the "or so" being dependent on how the system was working). The same would be done for diesel services stopping at Drogheda, Greystones or intermediate points on those lines. Those with no choice but that train get dibs, those with alternatives wait.

Fred Swanson

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Hilly Bill

dowlingm wrote: »

Two queues at the gate
1. All stations past Maynooth and all holders of seat reservations for Maynooth
2. Maynooth travellers without reserved seats

Queue 1 would be invited to board first, but would convert to general boarding with 5 or so minutes to go before departure (the "or so" being dependent on how the system was working). The same would be done for diesel services stopping at Drogheda, Greystones or intermediate points on those lines. Those with no choice but that train get dibs, those with alternatives wait.

People can't form one queue never mind two. And at what gate do you what people to form 2 queues at? The problem seems to be a shorter train for the 07.00 out of Sligo.

Hilly Bill

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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If they pay for a ticket to their destination then they have every right to use any service that stops there.

Five Lamps

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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That would make sense. These trains should go non-stop through from the outer suburbs to the city.

The same applied for the ridiculous arguement to extend the DART to Drogheda and creating a crap transit system for all users. What Drogheda needs is regional express trains that run non stop from say, Malahide, to the centre.

Hilly Bill

Five Lamps wrote: »

That would make sense. These trains should go non-stop through from the outer suburbs to the city.

The same applied for the ridiculous arguement to extend the DART to Drogheda and creating a crap transit system for all users. What Drogheda needs is regional express trains that run non stop from say, Malahide, to the centre.

Thats what you have.

Five Lamps

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Thats what you have.

But there is still calls for DART to Drogheda as there was to Greystones in the past?

LXFlyer

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Thats what you have.

No you don't - most call at Portmarnock, Clongriffen and Howth Junction and invariably are right behind a DART service.

Hilly Bill

lxflyer wrote: »

No you don't - most call at Portmarnock, Clongriffen and Howth Junction and invariably are right behind a DART service.

Most stop in Malahide as first stop.

Hilly Bill

Five Lamps wrote: »

But there is still calls for DART to Drogheda as there was to Greystones in the past?

They can call all they want, it doesnt mean it will happen. There has been plans to send the Dart to Maynooth for nearly 20 years ,its still no closer to happening.

Jamie2k9

Five Lamps wrote: »

But there is still calls for DART to Drogheda as there was to Greystones in the past?

Can you provide a source for these calls as the only DART growth proposed over the last while is the Airport link, Hazelhatch (KRP/Underground) and electrification of the Maynooth line. I have not saw any other plans.

LXFlyer

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Most stop in Malahide as first stop.

I would suggest that you look at the timetable again. That statement is incorrect.

Out of 25 northbound Northern line trains on a weekday only 10 do not serve Howth Junction and Portmarnock and it's a similar number southbound.

Hilly Bill

lxflyer wrote: »

I would suggest that you look at the timetable again. That statement is incorrect.

Out of 25 northbound Northern line trains on a weekday only 10 do not serve Howth Junction and Portmarnock and it's a similar number southbound.

What about Malahide being the last stop coming in?

LXFlyer

Hilly Bill wrote: »

What about Malahide being the last stop coming in?

It's the same in the other direction.

Let's be honest about this. The service on the Northern line for outer suburban commuting is atrocious, which is why so many people switched to Matthews Coaches or the 33X, 100X and 101X.

It's slow, is prioritised behind DARTs, trains regularly end up being stuck behind DARTs and crawl along as a result - it is anything but a fast express service.

Jamie2k9

lxflyer

Even with a timetable change, running express services without stops on DART line wouldn't be easy as a non stop service would easily catch up on a Dart but with the frequency of DART express services would catch up whichever way you timetable. Until 2 extra tracks are installed and DART separated from Commuter/Belfast service isn't a major amount that can be done.

Now some small changes could be make currently but nothing to deliver the service to cater for customer needs.

LXFlyer

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

lxflyer

Even with a timetable change, running express services without stops on DART line wouldn't be easy as a non stop service would easily catch up on a Dart but with the frequency of DART express services would catch up whichever way you timetable. Until 2 extra tracks are installed and DART separated from Commuter/Belfast service isn't a major amount that can be done.

Now some small changes could be make currently but nothing to deliver the service to cater for customer needs.

Which is my point - the other poster is claiming there is an express service.

There clearly is not.

Five Lamps

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Can you provide a source for these calls as the only DART growth proposed over the last while is the Airport link, Hazelhatch (KRP/Underground) and electrification of the Maynooth line. I have not saw any other plans.

2007 - Fine Gael calls for Dart line to be extended to Drogheda

2009 - Dart line to connect Drogheda with Dublin under Transport 21
THE Dart looks set to arrive in Drogheda after the government decided to extend Iarnród Éireann's Northern Line electrification project to the Co Louth town.

Gets popular with TDs and councillors around election time.

Hilly Bill

lxflyer wrote: »

Which is my point - the other poster is claiming there is an express service.

There clearly is not.

There is. You can get a train from Drogheda straight to Connolly few times a day . You have also a good number of trains that go non stop from Malahide ,Portmarnock or Clongriffin. Its still an express.
It would be better still if the commuter didnt stop in Portmarnock or Clongriffin as these can be served all day by the Malahide Dart.

Captain Chaos

Hilly Bill wrote: »

.
It would be better still if the commuter didnt stop in Portmarnock or Clongriffin as these can be served all day by the Malahide Dart.

Problem is not all DARTs go to Malahide and that would leave gaps of over 1hr to those stations if the Commuter trains didn't serve them.

As has already been said the only way to fix this problem is 4 tracking all the way from Connolly to Malahide which is impossible without some major work involving knocking down houses, apartments and bridges. A solution just as expensive would be a 2 track tunnel from Connolly to Malahide for DARTs only with an exit at Howth Junction to allow DARTs to and from Howth.

Hilly Bill

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Problem is not all DARTs go to Malahide and that would leave gaps of over 1hr to those stations if the Commuter trains didn't serve them.

As has already been said the only way to fix this problem is 4 tracking all the way from Connolly to Malahide which is impossible without some major work involving knocking down houses, apartments and bridges. A solution just as expensive would be a 2 track tunnel from Connolly to Malahide for DARTs only with an exit at Howth Junction to allow DARTs to and from Howth.

There are Darts leaving Malahide nearly every half an hour.

Captain Chaos

Hilly Bill wrote: »

There are Darts leaving Malahide nearly every half an hour.

Only peak times. I have seen the real time displays at Howth Junction P3 and 4 display the next train in 45mins during the day as it is.

Due to no room to provide a proper turn back facility at Malahide for DARTs, Commuter trains must service stations between HJ and Malahide as a result. It's a necessary evil of denied planning permission.

Hilly Bill

How many use Portmarnock or Clongriffin outside peak times?

n97 mini

Malahide has a population of 15k and Portmarnock is 9k. Not sure they warrant electrification, never mind trains more than hourly off peak.

Cool Mo D

n97 mini wrote: »

Malahide has a population of 15k and Portmarnock is 9k. Not sure they warrant electrification, never mind trains more than hourly off peak.

This is a silly argument. They are two large suburban towns, close to the city, which would easily support a 15/20-minute off peak service as part of the DART line. Malahide station is certainly busier than any other commuter station north of it.

Also, the argument that trains should not stop at a station because they are too busy is the most backwards logic I have ever heard: if the trains are too busy it is because the destinations are underserved. More services needed to be added to busy routes, not the opposite.

I've said it before: there is more than enough capacity on the Northern line to run 3 DARTS an hour each to Malahide and Howth along with 3 Drogheda trains and an Enterprise with sensible timetabling. It just needs IE to sit down and figure out the timetable properly.

Zebra3

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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Private?