€14k for a 2006 V50 replacement

Sobanek

Hey guys, so, the decision has finally been made. A new (used) car will be bought in 2014, as the old girl is getting tired.

She's a 2006 Volvo V50 2.0D with most of the fancy shmancy gadgets (high performance audio, leather, mfsw, heated seats).

My parents (as they're the ones looking) are looking for a post-2008 car, with up to about 70k miles (I'll try to convince them to a bit higher mileage though, maybe something like 80-90k). Must be estate (although may try to convince to a saloon), must be diesel, must have leather, heated seats and it should be something with plenty of poke (2.0 diesels most preferrably)

The budget is €12k (although can be stretched to 14k as I'm a good son, and if it's something worth that cash, I'll throw in the extra €2k).

Go away with the Hyundai rubbish, they test drove the i40 and were massively dissapointed with its driving capabilites and fit and finish compared to the Volvo.


Cars they are NOT interested in:

- Hyundai i40
- Kia C'eed
- Ssangyong of any kind
- Volkswagen Golf Estate / Golf Plus
- Any BMW with the N47 engine

timmy4u2

Sobanek wrote: »

Go away with the Hyundai rubbish, they test drove the i40 and were massively dissapointed with its driving capabilites and fit and finish compared to the Volvo.

They might eat their words if they go for a 1.6diesel without a full and proper service history. That engine is the psa engine designed by ford and peugeot.
See what can happen to them
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=psa%20engine&source=web&cd=13&ved=0CFUQFjAM&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.theturboguy.com%2Fuploads%2F1%2F0%2F3%2F5%2F10358883%2Fapi-presentation_1.6_hodi_carbon_issues-3-2.pdf&ei=QVBuUuPdOsWu7AbzxoFo&usg=AFQjCNF4za6E1R-y5HVd4vRMbDoro1qSTw&bvm=bv.55123115,d.ZGU
Hyundia have the best 1.6 diesel engine on the market.

Sobanek

She's a 2006 Volvo V50 2.0D

plenty of poke (2.0 diesels most preferrably)

Compared to your typical Irish buyer, a 200e a year difference in tax won't make a difference in the engine choice.

According to my mother (after test driving a 1.6 TDI Octavia):

It lacked power. 2 litre would be way better

Also: Petrol not an option as they do 21k miles a year, 80% of that is motorway driving.

colm_mcm

Just to save time, are we talking just 'premium'ish brands, Volvo, audi, mercedes, bmw etc?

Would something like a mercedes b class do the job? Not strictly an estate but the v50 isn't huge either.

Sobanek

Colm, I'd say yes, although "no reasonable offer refused"

My types so far were:
- 2008 C200 CDI Elegance Saloon
- 2009 Passat TDI Highline Estate (DSG)
- 2008 V50 2.0D SE LUX
- 2008 A4 S-Line Saloon (New shape)

And I know my ma says no, but I'd seriously consider importing from the UK.

Also, this caught my eye, but it's the only one for 10k gbp.

colm_mcm

Are they happy enough selling the v50 privately?

Sobanek

Yes, no need to trade in. They expect to get about 5.5k for it privately, 6k if lucky.

colm_mcm

Just to get this one out of the way. Are they Alfa type people?

cabb8ge

are you still buying own car too OP?
If you contribute some € to this purchase will that not constrain own plan?

Sobanek

cabb8ge wrote: »

are you still buying own car too OP?
If you contribute some € to this purchase will that not constrain own plan?

Nah, I'm alright. Got more hours than expected so €2k won't hurt me too bad I kind of treat it like Christmas/Birthday gift for my mom

645ci is out of the question for now, as I haven't moved to Dublin, therefore mileage too high. Something along the lines of a 2005 523i planned (+LPG conversion)

colm_mcm wrote: »

Just to get this one out of the way. Are they Alfa type people?

Dad is, the mother isn't.

cabb8ge

Good to see such things

Sobanek

cabb8ge wrote: »

Good to see such things

Extra hours, or a half-good son that is willing to throw in €2k for maintaining his arse for 20 years?

cabb8ge

I think second piece

R.O.R

Coming from a Volvo, it's going to be difficult to go in to anything but another Volvo - from a value for money perspective, with a bit of brand snobbery too. Had a similar dilemma ourselves last year, needing something bigger than a V50.

Sobanek wrote: »

And I know my ma says no, but I'd seriously consider importing from the UK.

Also, this caught my eye, but it's the only one for 10k gbp.

Good value in bringing in a Volvo from the UK. Emissions are pretty low for most of the newer ones, pricing is reasonable, and there is something other than D2/1.6d models. I would be wary about that sort of mileage on early S60's - had issues with a few from 160k +, which is a damn shame as they are brilliant to drive.

Worth looking at a D3/D4/D5 V50 or V70 from the UK? Whatever comes in budget with lowest mileage and best specification.

Sobanek

V70 is a bit too big. She tried the V60 and it was similar in terms of spacial awareness to the V50, so that's why I thought about the S60.

Comes up to 16k with the VRT and importing it. Hoping they might be available for 9k in 2014.

Saw a 2009 V50 D5 SE LUX, fully specced, with decent mileage (65k). Total with VRT, travel cost, independent mechanic check was 13.5k. It would be ideal if it wasn't for the towbar.

keithclancy

What about the Ford Focus Titanium Spec estate ?

Basically the same as the V50 without the rapey price tag.

alexlyons

I'd be interested in their V50...

Sobanek

We're holding onto it until around January mate.

alexlyons

Sobanek wrote: »

We're holding onto it until around January mate.

Ye saw in the OP you said 2014. I've a long term goal of changing the focus in the next 6 months so it would suit fairly well.
All depending on spec and condition and history, which sounds like it'd be good.

I'd seriously appreciate a PM and/or a post in this thread when you pop it up for sale.

Sobanek

alexlyons wrote: »

Ye saw in the OP you said 2014. I've a long term goal of changing the focus in the next 6 months so it would suit fairly well.
All depending on spec and condition and history, which sounds like it'd be good.

I'd seriously appreciate a PM and/or a post in this thread when you pop it up for sale.

Not a bother mate.

In terms of history, our friend mechanic has lost the service book that was kept from new until 140k kms. Right now it has 169k kms on the clock, so in January should have about 175k. (109k mls)

Full spec anyways - black leather, multifunction steering wheel, heated front seats, 17" Scotia Wheels, Headlight Washers, 8 Speaker High Performance Sound system.

Suspension needs a bit of work at the moment, but will most likely be sorted before January.

NCT till July 14.

Colour is the lovely, rare, blackcurrant pearl. She's getting a detail in about two weeks time, so I'll post some pics once she's looking mighty fine

Anyways, this isn't adverts, so I'll shut up now. I'll PM you when it's for sale.

Kaiser D

You could get a 09 Jag XF in budget.

Sobanek

Kaiser D wrote: »

You could get a 09 Jag XF in budget.

You're joking :eek:

Kaiser D

Sobanek wrote: »

You're joking :eek:

Oh, actually, is the €14k budget including the €6k for the Volvo?

Sobanek

Kaiser D wrote: »

Oh, actually, is the €14k budget including the €6k for the Volvo?

Yessss, unfortunately But on the bright side, no loan from the bank

Kaiser D

Sobanek wrote: »

Yessss, unfortunately But on the bright side, no loan from the bank

Well in that case you'll need to go back a year for an XF,

http://www.carzone.ie/search/Jaguar/XF/2.7-LUXU/201327215807853/advert?channel=CARS

BorneTobyWilde

What are these like in a diesel.

wandatowell

timmy4u2 wrote: »

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=psa%20engine&source=web&cd=13&ved=0CFUQFjAM&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.theturboguy.com%2Fuploads%2F1%2F0%2F3%2F5%2F10358883%2Fapi-presentation_1.6_hodi_carbon_issues-3-2.pdf&ei=QVBuUuPdOsWu7AbzxoFo&usg=AFQjCNF4za6E1R-y5HVd4vRMbDoro1qSTw&bvm=bv.55123115,d.ZGU

That isn't pretty.

Sobanek

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

What are these like in a diesel.

Cheapo paddy spec in that budget I'm afraid

timmy4u2

wandatowell wrote: »

That isn't pretty.

Not pretty at all. I was talking yesterday with a local shop owner who has a 09 Partner that he was told needs a new turbo at less than 80k.
I told him he may be wasting his money as by the time the turbo goes the engine is in big trouble.
He is not impressed.

George Dalton

timmy4u2 wrote: »

Not pretty at all. I was talking yesterday with a local shop owner who has a 09 Partner that he was told needs a new turbo at less than 80k.
I told him he may be wasting his money as by the time the turbo goes the engine is in big trouble.
He is not impressed.

Once the engine is inspected and the appropriate preventative steps are taken there is no reason why the replacement turbo won't last.

There is so much scaremongering about this engine on the internet that you would wonder how one of them manages to complete a journey without catastrophic failure.

One thing I have been meaning to do recently is to carry out an analysis of all the DV6 engines on our books showing mileage and rates of turbo failure. I reckon the results would surprise you.

timmy4u2

George Dalton wrote: »

Once the engine is inspected and the appropriate preventative steps are taken there is no reason why the replacement turbo won't last.

There is so much scaremongering about this engine on the internet that you would wonder how one of them manages to complete a journey without catastrophic failure.

One thing I have been meaning to do recently is to carry out an analysis of all the DV6 engines on our books showing mileage and rates of turbo failure. I reckon the results would surprise you.

There is no scaremongering about it. When the engine carbons up they are near death. I have seen it myself.
Look at the link that I posted. Read the Citroen Forums; read the Peugeot forums. They are not all wrong.
BMW fitted them in the Mini but they had them changed to a timing chain instead of a cam belt. BMW are withdrawing their contract in 2016.
It is not the turbos that are at fault and flushing the engineonly delays the inevitable.
That is not to say that properly serviced engines with the low saps oil will not give good service.
Andvto further lengthen the life of the engine use Dipetane at every fuel fill

George Dalton

timmy4u2 wrote: »

There is no scaremongering about it. When the engine carbons up they are near death. I have seen it myself.
Look at the link that I posted. Read the Citroen Forums; read the Peugeot forums. They are not all wrong.

I don't need to read forums or do Google searches on this issue. I am very familiar with it.

I know that when the engine gets to the stage where it is badly carboned up then it is game over but my point is that this is much less common than you are making it out to be.

timmy4u2 wrote: »

BMW fitted them in the Mini but they had them changed to a timing chain instead of a cam belt. BMW are withdrawing their contract in 2016.

The engine in the Minis has a belt just the same as any other DV6 engine.

timmy4u2 wrote: »

It is not the turbos that are at fault and flushing the engineonly delays the inevitable.

When a turbo fails the engine should be inspected internally for carbon buildup. If the problem hasn't progressed too far than replacing the oil pump pickup, turbo oil feed line and banjo bolt is almost always sufficient to prevent a repeat failure. I know this from experience, not from Google. Turbo failure on any engine is often down to factors other than the turbo itself, this is not unique to the DV6 engine.

timmy4u2 wrote: »

That is not to say that properly serviced engines with the low saps oil will not give good service.

True, in fact the majority of these engines give good service.

timmy4u2 wrote: »

Andvto further lengthen the life of the engine use Dipetane at every fuel fill

In my opinion adding Dipetane will not add a single kilometre to the life of the engine.

FrontDoor

Engine Type: 1.6 HDi PSA Group Engine DV6TED4
Engine Year: 2007
Vehicle Year: 2007
Miles on Engine: 109,087
Miles on Original Turbocharger before replacement: 107,800 Miles approx
Miles on 2nd Turbocharger before replacement: 937
Miles on 3nd Turbocharger before failure: 350
Service history: Serviced by a main franchised dealer 2 times from new, at every 30,000 miles approx , and 3 times by an independent garage 3 times in total, every 15,000 miles.
Oil used at service: Manufacturer's recommended grade oil
Notes: Oil feed pipe changed during turbocharger replacement

The car was at 60,000 miles and 2 services. I'd love to see what state any other diesel engine would be in with that sort of schedule.

timmy4u2

George Dalton wrote: »

I don't need to read forums or do Google searches on this issue. I am very familiar with it.

I know that when the engine gets to the stage where it is badly carboned up then it is game over but my point is that this is much less common than you are making it out to be.





The engine in the Minis has a belt just the same as any other DV6 engine.





When a turbo fails the engine should be inspected internally for carbon buildup. If the problem hasn't progressed too far than replacing the oil pump pickup, turbo oil feed line and banjo bolt is almost always sufficient to prevent a repeat failure. I know this from experience, not from Google. Turbo failure on any engine is often down to factors other than the turbo itself, this is not unique to the DV6 engine.





True, in fact the majority of these engines give good service.





In my opinion adding Dipetane will not add a single kilometre to the life of the engine.

Well I better quantify my statement. Ford no longer partner Peugeot in building or developing the PSA engine.
BMW are severing their links with PSA in 2016.
Why are they getting off the boat?
In the latter end of 2010 BMW seriously modified the 1.6 diesel engine and replaced the timing belt with a chain.

Some will argue that it is a smaller version of their 2lt engine but they are stuck in a contract with PSA until 2016 and then they are running like hell and their smaller engine will then be totally BMW.
I have never said that if properly serviced and with low saps oil by approved manufacturers-total is the only really approved oil- that they will not give good service.
I did say, and I continue to say that not properly serviced and with correct oil the carbon will build up to the stage that the engine will be US and in most cases by the time it manifests itself in damaging the turbo things are gone too far.

Of course you will come across a defective turbo but that is the exception rather than the rule.
The need to replace the oil feed pipe is now only a precaution as they have long removed the mesh filter that was trapping the breakaway carbon and starving the turbo of oil.
You now get a reprieve and wait until the carbon hits the vanes.

In my immediate family there are five vehicles with the PSA engine.
Two 2010 Peugeot Partners, one with 110km the other witt 90. Both working well.
A 09 mini with 60k and a 2011 mini cooper with 40k approx. The 2011 Mini Cooper has a timing chain.
The 5th car is a 07 Peugeot 407 with 88k mls (bought second hand without any service history) and that has given so much trouble, carbon up at the injectors; 2 gunged up egr valves and two turbos within six weeks so it is off to the scrappie next week. No sense in flogging a dead horse.
As regards depitane, none of the other vehicles are ever filled up without a measure of it. It does work.
Look back at the cars of the 40s and 50s. They were getting gunged up and had to be decoked at as low as 30k mls. This was due to the quality of the then petrol.

These modern engines need dipetane to burn more clearly and to prevent carbon build up in some of these modern compact high performance engines.
I have seen many cars that have failed the emissions in the NCT yet after a drive with dipetane they fly through it.
A friend of mine recently put his Vectra turbo diesel through the NCT. It failed on emissions at 7.2
I told him to give it a drive with dipetane and after just one measure of dipetane and approx 20 mls drive the car passed at 2.7

timmy4u2

FrontDoor wrote: »

The car was at 60,000 miles and 2 services. I'd love to see what state any other diesel engine would be in with that sort of schedule.

Hi frontdoor. I presume that you are referring to the poor service given by the engine

Two turbo chargers in 1200 miles shows that in most cases it is not worth changing the turbos when the carbon begins to fly.

The greatest mistake with these engines is the manufacturers service recommendation of 30k mls.
This was far too long and is now down to at least 12k by any competent mechanic. I would say 9k is the maximum interval between services. Use Total 5.30 low saps

George Dalton

timmy4u2 wrote: »

The 5th car is a 07 Peugeot 407 with 88k mls (bought second hand without any service history) and that has given so much trouble, carbon up at the injectors; 2 gunged up egr valves and two turbos within six weeks so it is off to the scrappie next week. No sense in flogging a dead horse.

Surely since you know so much about this issue you should have been able to tell before changing the turbo on the 407 that it was a waste of time?

Was the sump removed and cleaned out and the oil pump pickup replaced along with either turbo?

George Dalton

A quick glance through our recent invoices shows approximately 60 cars with this engine on our books (across all its applications) and 6 turbocharger replacements. No repeat turbo failures at all. In fact we have never had to replace a turbo twice on one of these engines. Another trend I noticed while going through the records is that there have been no failures on cars newer than 2007.

1 in 10 cars suffering a turbo failure is not a great record admittedly but I believe it isn't as bad as the Google merchants would have you believe.

timmy4u2

George Dalton wrote: »

Surely since you know so much about this issue you should have been able to tell before changing the turbo on the 407 that it was a waste of time?

Was the sump removed and cleaned out and the oil pump pickup replaced along with either turbo?

I had nothing to do with the purchase or servicing of the he 407.

You will know from my posts that I would not recommend any body to
Buy a pre 2009 car with the 1.6 psa engine due to the fact that the recommended service intervals were crazy and the chances of getting a properly serviced one is very slim....and I would only recomment a post 2009 one if it had a full service history as by this stage the in line filter was done away with and the service intervals were greatly reduced and Total low saps oil was recommended

Having spoken with the owner he states that the engine was indeed flushed out and the pump pick up was replaced and the filter done away with.

But I did advise him not to spend any more money on it.

Frontdoors post, that you thanked, shows the futility of replacing turbos when it is obvious that their falure is caused by the engine rather than the rare occurrence of it being a turbo issue.
Thanks, I do know quite an amount about the issue but I do not know everything and I do not profess to know everything; enough to be cautious and enough to be fearful.

George Dalton

timmy4u2 wrote: »

Frontdoors post, that you thanked, shows the futility of replacing turbos when it is obvious that their falure is caused by the engine rather than the rare occurrence of it being a turbo issue.

So you reckon if a turbo fails on one of these engines then you either replace the engine and turbo or scrap the car?

timmy4u2

George Dalton wrote: »

So you reckon if a turbo fails on one of these engines then you either replace the engine and turbo or scrap the car?

I am not getting into a tit for tat spat on this issue, nor shall I take issues out of context.
The facts speak for themselves. Read them and move on.

George Dalton

timmy4u2 wrote: »

I am not getting into a tit for tat spat on this issue, nor shall I take issues out of context.
The facts speak for themselves. Read them and move on.

Facts:
6 turbos replaced out of 60 cars.
No repeat failures.

This does not tie in with your "facts" posted in this thread.