Wisdom vs Knowledge

Godge

maninasia wrote: »

You just keep up making excuses such as 'exceptions to rules' and 'impossible'. The widespread use of Hebrew in Israel blows that all apart!

Even now in China Mandarin Chinese is being introduced in a top down (and bottom up) approach in in rural areas and non Han areas.

You have English, Hebrew and Mandarin Chinese.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extinct_language

I have 91 in the attached list.

3 out of 94 falling under the headings of "exceptions to the rule" is probably about right.

The list doesn't include dead languages such as Latin and Sanskrit.

It also doesn't include the list of endangered languages of which there are hundreds (of which Irish is considered one), some of these languages have as few as 70 speakers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_endangered_languages

maninasia

It doesn't matter, as I said, it depends on the way the language is integrated into daily life, the education system and also the benefits from speaking said language.

There's no rule, just doing it effectively or not, is it supported or not etc.

Signed Cap'Kirk from my Nexus Starblazer Quantum Phone

realitykeeper

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

History tells us a lot even after the decline of the Roman Empire Latin was use as a buisness/medical/religous language.

Yes but today Latin is a dead language. Doesn`t bode well for English does it. As for the BRICS not learning each others languages, that was true until recently. Now not only are they learning each others languages, so too are millions of people in English speaking countries. When the economies of the English speaking countries become basket cases, in the near future the BRICs may still communicate in English but for how long? Not for generations I can assure you. I would give it ten years tops before it is phased out.

realitykeeper

Godge wrote: »

English is not on the brink of a precipitous decline.
You are dreaming if you think Irish can be revived.

You are the one who is dreaming, you just don`t know it yet. English will be a useless language to the capitalist/market driven world when the QE experiment fails in the west. The BRICs countries will not bother with English when the us and uk cease to participate in market capitalism. If Esperanto did not become a major world language why would English retain international influence? Of course Irish can be revived and you know it.

realitykeeper

djpbarry wrote: »

I wonder what language the Chinese, Russians, Brazilians and Indians use when conducting international trade?

Hardly Esperanto that didn`t catch on. I reckon they will use each others languages within ten years of America`s demise.

realitykeeper

Godge wrote: »

Money would be better spent cataloguing Irish for future generations to study to learn about their heritage.

Why bother when technology will enable the whole world to use the Irish language within a few years.

maninasia

It sounds completely far-fetched, but it is actually possible within 10-20 years!

Of course you'd still need a device to interface...until the brain gate takes care of the telepathic communications for ya.

micosoft

realitykeeper wrote: »

I agree that levels of illiteracy are far too high but why waste time becoming literate in a declining language like English when they can become literate in a language with a future? The "soft power" (to quote a recent report in an influential Chinese newspaper) of cultural influence which the English language enjoyed in the past is rapidly coming to an end. This is because the US, UK, Canada, Australia and Ireland are all quickly becoming economic basket cases. The aforementioned countries with the possible exception of Canada, are so addicted to debt that they are collectively partaking in economic suicide through various means of quantitative easing.

People like Max Kaiser and Peter Schiff confirm this fact but sadly they are being ignored by all but a very small minority of Right wing heroes of congress in the US. Capitalism once made America great but the US is no longer capitalist in a fundamental sense. China however is capitalist and therefore China (and its main language) is destined for greatness.

LOL. Someones been listening to too much US talk radio...

Farmer Pudsey

realitykeeper wrote: »

Yes but today Latin is a dead language. Doesn`t bode well for English does it. As for the BRICS not learning each others languages, that was true until recently. Now not only are they learning each others languages, so too are millions of people in English speaking countries. When the economies of the English speaking countries become basket cases, in the near future the BRICs may still communicate in English but for how long? Not for generations I can assure you. I would give it ten years tops before it is phased out.

Yes but it took 1200 years after the fall of the roman empire before it began to fail. Then it was the reglious reformation that started it decline. It was still taught as a subject to a large proportion of the population until the mid 20th centuary.

And why was this because the structure to use it were in place in every country. It was compulsory for medicine. What similarity has that with English English is the language of the internet and much the same will happen if your off the wall prediction comes through.

recedite

realitykeeper wrote: »

Why bother when technology will enable the whole world to use the Irish language within a few years.

Yes, there are people all over the planet who can hardly wait for that great day to arrive

realitykeeper

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Yes but it took 1200 years after the fall of the roman empire before it began to fail.

The difference is technology. Back then it took years to reproduce a document and send it 1000 miles. Now it takes seconds to lap the planet.

djpbarry

realitykeeper wrote: »

Why bother when technology will enable the whole world to use the Irish language within a few years.

Ok, we're beyond ridiculous at this point. English is on the way out, but Irish is on the brink of becoming a global language?

I'm out.

An Coilean

Godge wrote: »

English has been spoken as a first language for centuries, that makes it a native language.

Otherwise the only native speakers are Ogham speakers.

Culture evolves, it is not fixed. The Gaelic culture of dancing at the crossroads speaking Irish has evolved into an Irish culture heavily influenced by American and Anglo-Saxan cultures with English speaking being to the fore. In fact, you are also seeing increasing cultural influences from Europe with the eating of pasta and the drinking of wine becoming norms that were completely absent from the Ireland of 30/40 years ago.

Gaelic culture 'evolved' into modern Irish culture to about the same extent as a mouse evolves into the kitten of the cat that ate it.

An Coilean

djpbarry wrote: »

I actually thought you were going to make an interesting point, but I stopped reading when I got to this.

You've got to be kidding, right? You think the standard of English in Ireland is so high that there's no point teaching it anymore?

First of all, it's not a foreign language - English is the native language of pretty much every Irish person.

Secondly, English is rapidly becoming, if it has not already become, the lingua franca of the planet. If a non-native English speaker can't communicate effectively through English, they're going to find opportunities limited in a lot of industries.

Two things, while English is the native language of a sizable majority, it is not fair or indeed smart to ignore those for whom it is not their native language.

Also, English either as a first or second language is known by only a fraction of the worlds population, it is not the lingua franca of the planet, there will never be a lingua franca of the planet.

Farmer Pudsey

An Coilean wrote: »

Two things, while English is the native language of a sizable majority, it is not fair or indeed smart to ignore those for whom it is not their native language.

Also, English either as a first or second language is known by only a fraction of the worlds population, it is not the lingua franca of the planet, there will never be a lingua franca of the planet.

Wake up and smell the coffee English is the most used second language in the world as in it is used across the buisness world. French and Spanish have higher no of people using it but these tend to be more concentrated in regional area's. It also happen to be the second primary language. It going to be around for a while.

realitykeeper

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Wake up and smell the coffee ...

Indeed you should. The status of English is for the most part what you say it is but that will not continue to be the case. Seismic changes tend to be sudden and devastating but all seems fine just before the quake. What I am saying is that the English language will be a secondary casualty, the primary one being the economies of the western world.

An Coilean

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Wake up and smell the coffee English is the most used second language in the world as in it is used across the buisness world. French and Spanish have higher no of people using it but these tend to be more concentrated in regional area's. It also happen to be the second primary language. It going to be around for a while.

I am not saying that English is not a widely spoken language, I am simply pointing out that despite being widely spoken, it is still only known by a fraction of the worlds population and as such is not a ''world lingua franca''. There is no world lingua franca and there never can be.

As for it being around for a while, I believe current linguastic theory suggests that what we would call English will probably last for another 150 - 200 years after which time the various branches of it will diverge so that instead of an English language, we will have an English family of languages, much like the various branches of Latin diverged into the family of romance languages over time.

Godge

An Coilean wrote: »

Gaelic culture 'evolved' into modern Irish culture to about the same extent as a mouse evolves into the kitten of the cat that ate it.

In your example, there is no mouse now, only the fond memory of how nice it tasted. A bit like Irish.

An Coilean

Godge wrote: »

In your example, there is no mouse now, only the fond memory of how nice it tasted. A bit like Irish.

Oh don't worry, there are still plenty of little baby mice running around the place. The Tom & Jerry relationship between the languages will continue for another few generations yet.