Cost of funerals

Murt10

From the Irish independent.

Government accused of telling us to 'shop around for cheaper funeral'

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/government-accused-of-telling-us-to-shop-around-for-cheaper-funeral-29702238.html

More lazy journalism from that rag. What else would you expect. It's a paper version of Talk to Joe. Cheap headlines.

They were referring to Willie O'Dea TD, saying how far the Government appeared to be removed from reality, asking people to shop around for a funeral. If the FF government, which included former Minister Willie O'Dea, hadn't for years themselves, been totally removed from reality, spending money like a drunken sailor, and allowing the banks to do the same, then the Country wouldn't be in the mess we are in now.

I have spent all my life watching what I spent and looking for places that I could get the same thing cheaper. Hence my presence here. I'm frugal, what's wrong with that. To me, shopping round for a funeral, or getting a trusted relative or friend to do this on your behalf, especially if you are spending a large amount your own hard earned money, makes perfect sense. Better than taking out a CR union loan, and leaving your loved ones with a debt that is going to have to be repaid over a couple of years.

I remember reading that the average cost in Dublin is around E7,000-8,000. Think about it, funeral homes are businesses, they are there to maximise their profits and the way they do this is to make us spend as much as they can.

They will try and rip us off when we are at our most vulnerable. When we are not thinking straight, and not up to an argument, and don't want be seen to be mean. Apparently, there is a cartel operating among the funeral homes in Dublin and it is impossible for a new company to break into it.

I remember watching "The Money Programme" on BBC 2 years ago. Some big US funeral company was going round the UK buying up small local funeral homes. Nothing changed on the outside, the name stayed the same etc, but inside all the staff were sent on lots of courses. The courses were not on how to deal with the bereaved, make them feel better etc. No, they were pure sales courses. Get the bereaved to spend as much as they can, whether they can afford it or not by saying things like "This is the last thing you will ever be able to do for him.... Give him a good send off that he would be proud of....Don't let him down now.... This is one of our most popular caskets..... etc"

In the case of my own death, which will occur sometime in the future, I don't think that at the time that Mrs Murt will feel much like shopping round (I could be wrong!). No, I'm not dying, or even sick for that matter, but I have already asked another relative that when I die, if they would mind shopping around for my funeral. I don't want an expensive coffin. I want the cheapest one possible. It's only going to be used for two or three days and then it's going to be buried in muck, never to be seen again.

What are mourning cars for. They were needed years ago, when no-one had a car. That is no longer the case.

Wouldn't it be far more useful to everyone, if the unattributed journalist who wrote that piece, rang around the different funeral homes and got a quote from them on the cost of a funeral for his "recently departed nearest and dearest", and published the results, along with tips on how to cut the cost of funerals for the bereaved. No. Too much work. Better things to do. Time is money.

Far better go for a rubbish story that doesn't have to be researched.

Anyway, the bargain alert here is to ask a friend/relative to shop around when or before the Grim Reaper comes knocking at your door. Leave instructions as to the type of funeral you want, and possibly leave some of the savings made to some cause that you choose, or sending your survivors on a break, rather than lining the undertakers pockets.


EDIT: Here's an article that I just came across in the Irish Examiner. Obviously a much higher standard of journalism demanded there.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/lifestyle/i-planned-my-own-funeral-205729.html

amdublin

It's funny but sometimes it really is important to grieving relatives to give their loved one the best sending off/the best coffin etc.

It wouldn't be to my taste, or to anyone in my family but I know other families who this would be important to them.

Ps. Not to say that I agree with heavy sales tactics

I asked my elderly Mum what she wanted for her funeral. As in coffin, flowers, where to have the "do" after, etc. She was glad to talk about it and asked me to give her the flowers now, when she can enjoy them! So I do. My siblings were horrified that I would dare ask such a question, but they now bring her flowers and treats too! Hopefully she'll be with us for many years to come, but we now know what she wants and when the time comes will do as she wanted.
I have also spoken to my own kids as to what I want when I go.

spank_inferno

We need private sector grave-yards.

Where I am they are all council owned.. Costing 2.5k to dig a hole.

kirb42

Well put Mort... I Couldn't agree more.....

to quote the late Bob Hope....

when asked on his deathbed where he wanted to be buried, Hope had told his wife, "Surprise me"

Capt'n Midnight

Meanwhile in the UK the co-op also do funerals.
http://www.co-operative.coop/funeralcare/

but

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2163891/Channel-4-Dispatches-funeral-firm-Families-horror-Co-op-funeral-firm-piled-naked-bodies-like-TVs.html

There was also criticism of sales methods at a branch in Hayes, West London, where trainees were told not to offer the basic £2,010 package to customers. The area manager said: ‘The bottom line is we’re a business and we need to make money.’

Kristopherus

Where's the Bargain Alert?;)

RainyDay

spank_inferno wrote: »

We need private sector grave-yards.

Where I am they are all council owned.. Costing 2.5k to dig a hole.

I'm not sure at all the the private graveyards around Dublin have managed to bring down prices. The private funeral directors around Dublin haven't managed to bring down prices.

I guess people just aren't in the mood for haggling or shopping round.

The only solution seems to be to avoid the traditional funeral. Get cremated, avoid the church, have a get together in the local GAA club.

shar01

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Meanwhile in the UK the co-op also do funerals.
http://www.co-operative.coop/funeralcare/

but

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2163891/Channel-4-Dispatches-funeral-firm-Families-horror-Co-op-funeral-firm-piled-naked-bodies-like-TVs.html

Yep, we need something similar to Co-op here. My gran in England organised and paid for her funeral in 2010. She died earlier this year and everything was sorted as she wanted it.

Maybe as cremation becomes more popular, prices will come down.

shar01

RainyDay wrote: »

The only solution seems to be to avoid the traditional funeral. Get cremated, avoid the church, have a get together in the local GAA club.

So far this year I heard of two funerals bypassing the church and having a humanist service in the funeral home.

Package

was literally just talking about this this morning.. and how much it would cost when, eventually the aul parents pass on, since they have NOTHING, it would be down to us kids to pay , does anyone know how much roughy a funeral costs in dublin? considering they dont even have a plot yet.

crazygeryy

how is this a bargain alert?

Truckermal

crazygeryy wrote: »

how is this a bargain alert?

Aye I was sure Amazon were doing super saver delivery for the whole package and DPD would collect your dead relative FOC..;)

Truckermal

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Rubies-Masquerade-Long-Corrugated-Coffin/dp/B000VOB2BG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1382879850&sr=8-1&keywords=coffin

Actually here ya go!!!!

utyh2ikcq9z76b

Heres the bargain alert:

http://www.ucd.ie/t4cms/BDP%20BROCHURE%20SMMSWEB13.pdf

This is what Im going to do, donate your body to science

gandalf

Isn't this more of a consumer issue.

My dad died nearly seven years ago (in fact tomorrow is the seventh anniversary of his death). He had a stroke and survived in hospital for another six months before dying of respiratory complications. Towards the end it was obvious that he was not going to make it. A week before he died I started to shop around for his funeral because my mother was in no condition to do this herself. It was one of the weirdest experiences that I have every had to do in my life to shop around for an event like this.

I started with all the big names in Dublin as we lived in Dublin South at the time and was shocked at their charges. I ended up calling the undertakers just outside Dublin and settled on one from Bray whose quote was significantly less than the others (around €2500 less although I can't remember what the final charge was again). I was worried that they would provide a lesser service for my father but I did check around with people I knew from Bray and they calmed my fears. The funeral went as expected and my mother and my dads family were happy with the service which was the most important factor.

That was an unusual situation as I would say the majority do not have the timescale to shop around. It is also a very emotive thing to search out such a service for a loved one and some of the funeral homes do benefit from this. I suppose I was a bit detached because I had come to terms with the fact my father was going to die, three weeks after the initial stroke we were all called in at 2am because they reckoned he was going to die and then around 2 months into his six month term in hospital he spent two weeks in intensive care.

It does pay to shop around and I'd recommend that anyone who is in a situation to arrange a funeral give it to a friend to look around and get the best value.

tayto lover

When I go they can stick a candle up my a*** and float me out to sea for all I care.

Victor

Murt10 wrote: »

In the case of my own death, which will occur sometime in the future, I don't think that at the time that Mrs Murt will feel much like shopping round (I could be wrong!). No, I'm not dying, or even sick for that matter, but I have already asked another relative that when I die, if they would mind shopping around for my funeral. I don't want an expensive coffin. I want the cheapest one possible. It's only going to be used for two or three days and then it's going to be buried in muck, never to be seen again.

You know that you can pre-arrange your own funeral - many people do.

MagicMarker

In going to have my body delivered to a parcel motel.

Blade

gandalf wrote: »

Isn't this more of a consumer issue.

Moved.

byhookorbycrook

I'm being donated to medical science so a grand cheapo deal!

endofrainbow

box of matches and a cardboard box for me !

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

This is no more a consumer issue than buying a car, airline tickets, wedding venues, cornflakes, clothes, or a camera. If cost is an issue then you shop around and buy a product that fits your budget.

Howard Juneau

Halle Enough Spike wrote: »

This is no more a consumer issue than buying a car, airline tickets, wedding venues, cornflakes, clothes, or a camera. If cost is an issue then you shop around and buy a product that fits your budget.

Or you let the body in the house/flat and let the council pay for the funeral

ABajaninCork

I was thinking about this recently after a family bereavement. In the UK, (where I'm from) people take out insurance policies to cover the costs of the funeral. You can decide on burial or cremation; cost of the plot/urn; wreathes; cars; music - whatever you need really. Most of the plans are with the Co-Op as that's the major supplier. Members of my family and a few of my friends have such a plan in place.

Asked my husband and in-laws about a similar sort of plan here as I'd like to take one out. Seems it's not possible - doesn't exist. Why?? Seems only sensible to me. That way, you plan what you want in advance, and the money's there to pay for it. Clean and simple.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

ABajaninCork wrote: »

I was thinking about this recently after a family bereavement. In the UK, (where I'm from) people take out insurance policies to cover the costs of the funeral. You can decide on burial or cremation; cost of the plot/urn; wreathes; cars; music - whatever you need really. Most of the plans are with the Co-Op as that's the major supplier. Members of my family and a few of my friends have such a plan in place.

Asked my husband and in-laws about a similar sort of plan here as I'd like to take one out. Seems it's not possible - doesn't exist. Why?? Seems only sensible to me. That way, you plan what you want in advance, and the money's there to pay for it. Clean and simple.

Many undertakers will offer pre-pay plans like that.

ABajaninCork

Halle Enough Spike wrote: »

Many undertakers will offer pre-pay plans like that.

I've not seen or heard of any in Cork! Anyway - why should the choice be restricted? Why not take out a funeral plan with which ANY undertaker can be paid from the proceeds? That's what I was asking...

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

ABajaninCork wrote: »

I've not seen or heard of any in Cork! Anyway - why should the choice be restricted? Why not take out a funeral plan with which ANY undertaker can be paid from the proceeds? That's what I was asking...

Open a savings account?

ABajaninCork

Yes, I suppose I could. But with respect, that WASN'T the question I was asking...

L1011

ABajaninCork wrote: »

I was thinking about this recently after a family bereavement. In the UK, (where I'm from) people take out insurance policies to cover the costs of the funeral. You can decide on burial or cremation; cost of the plot/urn; wreathes; cars; music - whatever you need really. Most of the plans are with the Co-Op as that's the major supplier. Members of my family and a few of my friends have such a plan in place.

Asked my husband and in-laws about a similar sort of plan here as I'd like to take one out. Seems it's not possible - doesn't exist. Why?? Seems only sensible to me. That way, you plan what you want in advance, and the money's there to pay for it. Clean and simple.

They exist but are really only marketed to >50s.

Victor

A few points:

Undertakers expect not to be paid promptly, so they may offer a discount if paid promptly.

If going the pre-pay route, you can avail of what you want and probably obtain the discount as well.

cerastes

spank_inferno wrote: »

We need private sector grave-yards.

Where I am they are all council owned.. Costing 2.5k to dig a hole.

2.5k to dig a hole? is that for the plot too or something, Id rather dig it myself, I was told of that happening once, but outside Dublin, I have only known of it happening once that I could confirm, not sure if its common?

RainyDay wrote: »

I'm not sure at all the the private graveyards around Dublin have managed to bring down prices. The private funeral directors around Dublin haven't managed to bring down prices.

I guess people just aren't in the mood for haggling or shopping round.

The only solution seems to be to avoid the traditional funeral. Get cremated, avoid the church, have a get together in the local GAA club.

Indeed, that is what they are playing on, people wont be in the mood to shop around, whats wrong with having people to the house too?

shar01 wrote: »

Yep, we need something similar to Co-op here. My gran in England organised and paid for her funeral in 2010. She died earlier this year and everything was sorted as she wanted it.
Maybe as cremation becomes more popular, prices will come down.

I was at a cremation in the UK, wasnt aware it was even carried out here, but seems popular there, nice ceremony.


I have heard that Undertakers overcharge (no suprise there) to account for/cover the costs of unpaid or incompletely paid for funerals, so you could be paying for someone elses funeral when if you pay in full. Thats probably why they offer the upfront discount, what are they going to do if an outstanding balance isn't paid, dig you up?

Victor

cerastes wrote: »

Id rather dig it myself

This may be problematic if you are in the box.

I have heard that Undertakers overcharge (no suprise there) to account for/cover the costs of unpaid or incompletely paid for funerals, so you could be paying for someone elses funeral when if you pay in full.

All businesses have to make up for bad debts somehow.

cerastes

Victor wrote: »

This may be problematic if you are in the box.
Al businesses have to make up for bad debts somehow.

i meant for a relative, I assume if I was in the box I wouldn't care or be able to care who paid

Agent_99

cerastes wrote: »

i meant for a relative, I assume if I was in the box I wouldn't care or be able to care who paid

I know a group of lads that went down to the graveyard on the evening their father died with a few cans and dug that grave between them. They said that it was the best bereavement therapy ever as they felt useful instead of hanging round the house drinking tea

Howard Juneau

Agent_99 wrote: »

I know a group of lads that went down to the graveyard on the evening their father died with a few cans and dug that grave between them. They said that it was the best bereavement therapy ever as they felt useful instead of hanging round the house drinking tea

When my cousin passed recently, her sons & nephews dug her grave & then after the burial, filled in her grave
It's still a tradition to do this in some rural areas. Not done as a money saver, but as a show of respect to the person who passed

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

I think some people here at assuming that the Dublin way is the country's way. The council owns graveyards in many towns but the parishes own more - hence private sector. Not all graves cost 2500 - some are much more but others are as low as €50. You can of course dig a family grave. The charge is for the grave. Funerals can cost a lot of money but don't have to.
What exactly is the consumer issue here?
College fees are expensive, medical fees are expensive, fuel costs are expensive, razor blades are expensive, funerals are expensive.........

dudara

I'm willing to leave this open in the Consumer Issues forum, as it's a big of an unusual topic. But please, no smart comments, stick the topic and discuss it seriously.

dudara

ABajaninCork

Howard Juneau wrote: »

When my cousin passed recently, her sons & nephews dug her grave & then after the burial, filled in her grave
It's still a tradition to do this in some rural areas. Not done as a money saver, but as a show of respect to the person who passed

At home, the gravediggers LOVE black funerals! They get a huge tip for no work. We have a tradition of the men filling the grave, whilst hymns are sung. The hat is passed round for a tip for the gravediggers. Nothing but paper money goes in! My husband calls it a 'silent' collection as there's no coins put in.

Guy:Incognito

ABajaninCork wrote: »

I've not seen or heard of any in Cork! Anyway - why should the choice be restricted? Why not take out a funeral plan with which ANY undertaker can be paid from the proceeds? That's what I was asking...

Any undertaker can be paid from it, your just making the choice before you pay.

amdublin

ABajaninCork wrote: »

At home, the gravediggers LOVE black funerals! They get a huge tip for no work. We have a tradition of the men filling the grave, whilst hymns are sung. The hat is passed round for a tip for the gravediggers. Nothing but paper money goes in! My husband calls it a 'silent' collection as there's no coins put in.

What's a black funeral

ABajaninCork

amdublin wrote: »

What's a black funeral

A funeral held for a black person. A person of Afro-Caribbean origin if you like. I thought it might've been obvious from my post...

amdublin

ABajaninCork wrote: »

A funeral held for a black person. A person of Afro-Caribbean origin if you like. I thought it might've been obvious from my post...

Well it confused the heck out of me. No idea where it came from or why it was mentioned.

Where is "at home" Cork or the Carribean? And black people there dig their own graves?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

ABajaninCork wrote: »

A funeral held for a black person. A person of Afro-Caribbean origin if you like. I thought it might've been obvious from my post...

The tradition of local men digging and filling in the grave is very common here too. As is a silent collection. It's also traditional for a family member to take the grave diggers for a drink once the grave is dug.
So the reference to a black funeral was lost on some of us.

Back to the cost and choice. All that can be sorted well in advance if you wish. You can shop around and do a prepaid deal with the undertaker or simply save towards it. If only that could be done for all goods and services.

cerastes

Agent_99 wrote: »

I know a group of lads that went down to the graveyard on the evening their father died with a few cans and dug that grave between them. They said that it was the best bereavement therapy ever as they felt useful instead of hanging round the house drinking tea

This is what I heard being done, few drinks and dug the grave.

ABajaninCork wrote: »

At home, the gravediggers LOVE black funerals! They get a huge tip for no work. We have a tradition of the men filling the grave, whilst hymns are sung. The hat is passed round for a tip for the gravediggers. Nothing but paper money goes in! My husband calls it a 'silent' collection as there's no coins put in.

I consider that quite despicable! people that expect a tip at a funeral, that really reduces the funeral where people are expecting a tip off people when they will be at their lowest, its practically blackmail.
Are they not getting paid already for the job in the first place? perhaps by the council if its a council graveyard?

ABajaninCork

cerastes wrote: »

I consider that quite despicable! people that expect a tip at a funeral, that really reduces the funeral where people are expecting a tip off people when they will be at their lowest, its practically blackmail.
Are they not getting paid already for the job in the first place? perhaps by the council if its a council graveyard?

I do agree. But it's the custom with Caribbean people that the grave is filled in by the men and the diggers get a large tip! I've seen it both in the West Indies as well as at home in the UK. I don't know what the general custom is, but my husband's family did give the gravediggers a drink at a recent bereavement. It might've been because it was a Saturday afternoon and they stayed behind especially.

cerastes

ABajaninCork wrote: »

I do agree. But it's the custom with Caribbean people that the grave is filled in by the men and the diggers get a large tip! I've seen it both in the West Indies as well as at home in the UK. I don't know what the general custom is, but my husband's family did give the gravediggers a drink at a recent bereavement. It might've been because it was a Saturday afternoon and they stayed behind especially.

Ok, I assumed this meant at funerals normally, that tips were expected.
I didnt realise this related specifically to West Indian custom, if thats what they want to do, fine.
edit, someone else has suggested the silent tipping is prevalent here too though?? I dont get it,
Id consider it demeaning for someone to hang around and expect a tip at a loved ones funeral.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

cerastes wrote: »

Ok, I assumed this meant at funerals normally, that tips were expected.
I didnt realise this related specifically to West Indian custom, if thats what they want to do, fine.
edit, someone else has suggested the silent tipping is prevalent here too though?? I dont get it,
Id consider it demeaning for someone to hang around and expect a tip at a loved ones funeral.

Maybe read the posts again. She said it was black funerals in the UK. It was then commented that the expression "a silent collection" was used here too. We have silent collections biut not at funerals.

Where are we going with this???

cerastes

Halle Enough Spike wrote: »

Maybe read the posts again. She said it was black funerals in the UK. It was then commented that the expression "a silent collection" was used here too. We have silent collections biut not at funerals.

Where are we going with this???

I wasnt aware of these silent collections, or when they occurred after the proceedings, you mentioned it and it seemed to me that it is ineffect some form of payment?, I dont know who its for as you didnt expand on it, if its for paying someone that helped a family and isnt getting paid, it might be ok, who donates to the silent collection??
I would help dig a grave if asked, but I wouldn't expect to be paid, I'd take the offer of a few sandwhiches and some tea or a drink

If I attended anyones funeral, I've never seen it and Ive attended funerals, in Dublin and down the country and in the UK, I'd find it a bit odd if anyone passed around a hat/bowl to put minimum of a fiver into.
Where this is going?
Well, I think its that funerals are expensive and people expecting to be paid doesnt help the bereaved as far as I can see, it seems like emotional blackmail, the bereaved will feel bad enough and maybe fear as they wont want to appear cheap at a loved ones funeral, but I think it detracts from any dignity at a funeral to have what is effectively tipping brought up.

P_1

One thing that I have noticed with funeral homes in Dublin is that they (for lack of a better word) discourage family members from carrying out tasks that they could charge for themselves.

For example, they charge for dressing the deceased and taking care of their hair and makeup in the case of female deceased prior to the funeral. They charge three figure sums for this and it really is something that the family traditionally take care of

whelzer

At both my recent grandparents funerals, we (the family) filled in the grave afterwards. Every man/boy and some women had a go. It was good craic to be honest! Lots of banter as the folks who moved away from home/office workers (ie me) were "obviously" not able to handle a shovel as well as the more rural types.. It took a surprisingly long time to complete. The priest commented that he had never seen it before but had heard of it done in extremely rural places...

I've no connection with this crowd whatsoever but its where I plan on ending up... even got my coffin type picked! Hopefully they will be still going in 40 odd years when I pop me cloggs......

http://www.greengraveyard.com/