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Anti-Social Behaviour Resolutions.

  • 24-10-2013 4:21pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41


    Howdy Folks,

    Just looking for some advice from anyone who has hadproblems with anti-social behavior from neighbors in the past or has beenthrough a similar situation as ourselves. We have a problem with neighbors inour estate. In our part of the estate there are 9 houses in a separate squaredsection of the larger estate. We, my partner & I own our property and theissues arises due to neighbors two doors away from us whom are renting theirproperty.

    The neighbor family is a couple in their late thirties /early forties who have 5 children and who have lived in the estate for abouttwo years now. Maybe a year back the family was first confronted due to one oftheir children breaking a window in the front of our house. The confrontationwas amicable and we simply told the parents that the child had broken thewindow whilst hitting stones around the block with a hurl. The parentsimmediately denied it was their child whom had broke the window, refused toreplace the window and blamed the child of another family who live adjacent toour block and had been in playing with the neighbor child. Fair enough, we asked that the kids not beplaying with hurleys in the block and let it go as neither family would takeresponsibility.

    About two weeks later another window was broken in the frontof our house. I was at home at the time and immediately looked out andwitnessed the neighbor children running away. We called the Gardai this timeand the same as before, the family denied all and blamed other kids despite mywitnessing that only their kids were present in the block. Gardai couldn’tproceed with any charges as there was no solid evidence to go with so thecomplaint was noted and we were advised to start documenting any incidents withthese neighbors.

    It’s worth noting here that prior to these two incidentsthat I had witnessed, my partner had had to replace 4 different windows in themonths before I moved in and all after the family in question moved into theneighborhood. This was a total of 6 windows smashed in our house alone within12 months. Things gradually became worse as the big brave men of the family andhis relatives would regularly gather outside the house while the kids continuedto behaved like animals out in the block. Cars began constantly coming andgoing from the house with horns beeping at all hours. More and more damage washappening to the houses in the block. The kid’s actually went so far as towrite their own names on other peoples downstairs window sills and side gatesand were regularly caught trespassing in gardens and creeping along the backwalls which run across everyone’s gardens. Bags of rubbish were left around theblock and the litter strewn by the children accumulated. Added to this was anair of intimidation which began to come from the family in question with smartremarks, eyeballing, mumbled threats and finger gestures.

    We contacted the council but received no advice or response initiallyso we got talking to other residents in the block, three other owners and onetenant. They began to tell us of the similar damage that had been done to theirhomes, namely broken windows, broken side gates, engine oil poured across thefront door and step of one house, heating oil tank pushed over in the garden ofanother neighbor and similar concerns regarding the parking of cars and thenoise from the cars coming and going at all hours and lazy parents holleringfor their kids.

    Soon after we had a cinder block thrown at the front door ofone of the houses by the father of the family. This was thrown whilst allegedlyhunting a rat which was feeding of the rubbish accumulated in the block. Againthe Guards we called and this time the complaint was proceeded with due to thedamage to the door, namely a cracked panel and chunk missing from the doorframe. This was replaced by the father of the family and within days themumbling of threats and anti-social behavior escalated because we had reportedthe incident to the council. The council finally replied saying they werelooking into the matter with the local Gardai liaison officer but we never hadany feedback or further communication from the council or this liaison officerwhom we still have not met.

    A few of the residents set up bi-monthly meeting to discussthese issues with the area and try to get the matter resolved jointly. We had afew attempts to clean up the block but this soon fizzled out due to lack ofpride in the area…why should we clean it up just so they can mess it all overagain. My partner and I and only two other owners lived bloke and all the otherprivately owned homes are let out by the owners. One other home owner has beenunable to successfully let her house due to it being directly alongside thefamily and largely due, in fairness and to her own considerable finical loss, toher refusal to let her house to a family like those in question and the refusalto allow the other owners to have to endure such anti-social neighbors.

    As of a few weeks again things took a drastic turn whenanother home owner went ahead and let out his house to relations of the firstfamily so now we have two families from the same disrespectful ilk in the area andthe place has become a hangout for the men of the households and their type tostand around pavements, outside parked cars, sitting on neighbors window sills,door steps and gates drinking and talking **** for hours on end. When asked tomove away from other people’s windows and doors the usual smart mouthed, barelyintelligible empty threats are issued before they skulk off only to returnafter a few days.

    Further contact was made with the council to which they saidthey are again investigating the matter but as of yet there is no sign of any councilintervention despite the fact that both families are housed in the block withthe aid of rent subsidies from the council.

    Since being told to document the issues by Gardai we havecompiled over 40 incidents of the kids throwing stones at the doors andwindows, kids trespassing in gardens, the big brave men of the households andtheir “butties” drinking and loitering around other residents houses and carsand constantly being asked to move their cars and stop blocking access to theindividual houses and block. We’ve had cars damaged, windows broke, dogsterrorized, litter and damage to house fronts and all amid the continued air ofintimidation and verbal threats from these bastards, when they muster up thecourage when in groups of 4 or 5.

    So boards readers,..have any of you had similar problems andhow did you resolve them.

    (Sensible, logic andlegally acceptable recommendations only folks as this is a genuine issueseeking a genuine resolution.)


Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41 eamonn3974


    Sorry about the spacing...something went wrong when formatting.:cool:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,879 ✭✭✭D3PO


    Ive read this and it sounds dreadful. The biggest issue you have is proof. You have no proof any of the windows smashed were by them and the burden of proof is with you. Likewise the graffiti etc.

    Unless you witness these things you cannot use them as a complaint. Id suggest the first port of call is to get CCTV installed so you can record the goings on aswell as any logs you have made.

    I take It they are renting via the council and not privately ? If Privately I suggest you contact the LL's and ask them to intervene to resovle the issues, they have an obligation to prevent anti social behavior by tenants and if they don't do anything you can raise a case as a third party to the PRTB citing anti social grounds and look for the PRTB to get involved and force a reaction by the LL.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41 eamonn3974


    Thanks D3PO. Yeah, proof is the thing. We went ahead and installed a videocamera a few months back. All we've caught so far is the kids and people coming and going from the house. Due to the angle of the camera we can't catch them at the down stairs window sills and hanging out at our front door but have the audio of them being asked to move.
    We had contact with the home owner who moved in the relations of the initial family. He was told all the issues and agreed to not move them in but two weeks later the moved in. When we contacted the homeowner he just said he couldnt afford to not rent to them due to his mortgage so we're awaiting a reply from the council as both families are recieving rent allowance and then ourselves and a few of the other home owners are going to take it to the PRTB and a privates solicitor. On that note,..does anyone know who was the legal representation in the Templars Hall issue a few years back?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    You need to find out name and address of landlord. Then pass details to all neighbours. Everytime there is an incident call him and either go to his house. He will eventually move them on.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,879 ✭✭✭D3PO


    eamonn3974 wrote: »
    . When we contacted the homeowner he just said he couldnt afford to not rent to them due to his mortgage


    Tough luck to him. Explain to him his legal obligations as a LL. Print out some PRTB tribunal reports regarding LL's anti social tenants and complaints taken by neightbours and when he raises how big an issue renting to them will cause him he will soon cop on and do something.

    If he doesn't make that complaint to the PRTB.

    Make sure all contact with the LL's is in writing and any correspondence sent is registered post.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41 eamonn3974


    Thanks,..the owner who refuses to let her house had the landlords details & I think she contacted him a few times but I'll get his details and go ahead with the registered letters to him to try nudge him into action first. Thanks for the advice.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,879 ✭✭✭D3PO


    eamonn3974 wrote: »
    Thanks,..the owner who refuses to let her house had the landlords details & I think she contacted him a few times but I'll get his details and go ahead with the registered letters to him to try nudge him into action first. Thanks for the advice.


    I will try dig up some relevant PRTB tribunals for you over the weekend.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,869 ✭✭✭odds_on


    D3PO wrote: »
    I will try dig up some relevant PRTB tribunals for you over the weekend.
    You will need the decision date to be able to find the particular decision. The PRTB website is not very user friendly as regards searching decisions - in fact, it is absolutely useless.

    DR1371/2007 Decision month December 2008
    1. The former tenants were in breach of their obligations under Section 16(h) of the Residential Tenancies Act 2004, and engaged persistently in behaviour that prevented or interfered with the peaceful occupation by the Applicant Third Party,
    DR292/2009 Decision Month Nov 2009
    The Respondent Landlord shall issue the Tenants of the dwelling at Z with a formal written warning in compliance with his obligations under the Residential Tenancies Act, 2004, within 28 days of the date of issue of this Order, directing that the Tenants cease to allow other occupiers of, or visitors to the dwelling to behave within it or in the vicinity of it in a such a way as would affect the peaceful occupation of the residents of the other dwellings in Z.
    DR1350/2008 Decision date April 2009
    1. The Applicant Third Party’s claim of anti-social behaviour defined under Section 17 of the Residential Tenancies Act, 2004, in respect of the tenancy is upheld.
    2. The Respondent Landlord shall ensure that the Tenants in occupation of the above dwelling comply with their obligations as set out under Section 16 of the Residential Tenancies Act, 2004.
    DR1579/2008 Decision Date Apr 2009
    1. The Respondent Landlord shall immediately serve a Notice of Termination on the tenants in occupation of the dwelling at ......
    2. The Respondent Landlord shall employ the services of a professional Letting Agency for any future lettings and should any issue arise with future tenants the Landlord will deal with them in a speedy and efficient manner in relation to the tenancy of the above dwelling.
    3. The Respondent Landlord shall pay the sum of €259 to XXXXXXX a Third Party Applicant for damages caused to XXXXXX's car by associates of the tenant TTTTTTTTTT in respect of the tenancy of the above dwelling.
    DR 327/ 2011 Decision date Nov 2011
    In the matter of X (Applicant Third Party) and Y (Respondent Landlord) the Private Residential Tenancies Board, in accordance with section 121 of the Residential Tenancies Act 2004, (the Act), determines that:

    The Respondent Landlord shall pay the total sum of €1,500.00 to the Applicant Third Party, within 28 days of the date of issue of this Order, being damages for the Respondent Landlords breach of duty owed to certain third parties, in failing to enforce tenant’s obligations, in respect of the tenancy of the dwelling at Z


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,434 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    I feel for you OP but unfortunately this may be a long drawn out process. I had a similar tenant in my house and it took nearly 2 years to move her on as the LL must go through alot of due process such as warning letters etc and give the tenant every opportunity to 'improve' their behaviour.
    Even after the LL issues a notice of termination should the tenant then refuse to leave there is another long period before they can be forced out.

    But get things in motion as soon as you can with either a complaint to the Landlord or a PRTB complaint.
    These kind of people are pretty much above the law so the only recourse is to force the LL to get rid of them so they can move to someone elses area and destroy their peaceful habitation.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,396 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    Have you tried the local Sinn Fein representative? Would never think of voting for them myself but their status as former terrorists is apparently very useful when they have a polite chat with such scumbags as your neighbours. Whether the threat of a knee-capping is real or imagined it'll be in their heads for a few months after and you should see some improvement in their behaviour.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41 eamonn3974


    Thanks very much Odds On and D3, alot of useful material there that can be quoted in the contact with the landlords. Definitely goin down the LL and PRTB route now that we know how to go about it...got more sensible advice here than we ever did of any TD, council rep or liason personnel.
    Would'nt be bothered with Sinn Fein or TD representation on this one as some of these tenents take pride in their supposed Sinn Fein and "indiginous native Irish cultural" heritage....in other words, they're right up Sinn Fein demographic.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,396 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    They might be exactly the sort a quiet chat from the representative might work on so. Those sorts are slow to disassociate Sinn Fein from the balaclava and armalite... ;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 523 ✭✭✭dealhunter1985


    eamonn3974 wrote: »
    Thanks D3PO. Yeah, proof is the thing. We went ahead and installed a videocamera a few months back. All we've caught so far is the kids and people coming and going from the house. Due to the angle of the camera we can't catch them at the down stairs window sills and hanging out at our front door but have the audio of them being asked to move.
    We had contact with the home owner who moved in the relations of the initial family. He was told all the issues and agreed to not move them in but two weeks later the moved in. When we contacted the homeowner he just said he couldnt afford to not rent to them due to his mortgage so we're awaiting a reply from the council as both families are recieving rent allowance and then ourselves and a few of the other home owners are going to take it to the PRTB and a privates solicitor. On that note,..does anyone know who was the legal representation in the Templars Hall issue a few years back?


    That is awful. I feel bad for you.. I wonder would it be worth installing even more video cameras in all areas where the kids are loitering around your premises?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,161 ✭✭✭frag420


    I have heard of people playing classical music and similar to disperse some of societies less wanted folks!!

    Next time they are outside your house open the window and blast them Beethoven!!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,316 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    eamonn3974 wrote: »
    Thanks D3PO. Yeah, proof is the thing. We went ahead and installed a videocamera a few months back. All we've caught so far is the kids and people coming and going from the house. Due to the angle of the camera we can't catch them at the down stairs window sills and hanging out at our front door but have the audio of them being asked to move.
    Consider putting a small mirror outside the window to point (the camera feed) down at your front door.

    Also, if you have a door with a small "eye hole", attach a camera to the inside looking out, with a live feed that is also recorded, and I'd say you'd catch a lot of brazen lads on video that would be very useful for court.
    frag420 wrote: »
    Next time they are outside your house open the window and blast them Beethoven!!
    Although usually a good idea, in this case I'd say it'd be a bad idea, and lead to whatever emits the noise getting stolen or smashed.

    =-=

    Look into bringing the landlord to court over failure to do their job, in regards the tenants. Not sure what failure you'd be bringing about, but I'm sure a solicitor would know of a few. Bring the originals landlord to court, and the newer one will probably cop on fairly quickly.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41 eamonn3974


    Cost is the main thing with the camera's Dealhunter85. Have asked the council to put up no ball playing signs in the blocks but nothing ever happened. Kid's are a nightmare, screaming and wailing all day in the square but its the parents that we want to take accountability for them and the Landlords for housing the unhousable here. The area seems to be becoming one of those estates where all kinds of "difficult" residents are being located to at the expense of buy to reside owners.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,085 ✭✭✭meoklmrk91


    I am renting in an estate that sounds similar to yours, except that through fear and intimidation everyone backed down from them and things became much more serious, there has been some very serious crimes committed here since because people are too afraid to stand up to them and honestly I don't blame them. They receive no support from the local gardai in their complaints, which partly isn't their fault because they don't have many powers when it comes to anti-social behaviour.

    But at least I am only renting, if things get very bad I can leave, I feel really sorry for people who bought homes here or the landlords who's vacant houses are broken into, stolen from, used for parties and wreaked. Do not back down and keep on to the council. Go and speak to a county councillor, bring your recordings of what has happened and show them what you have been dealing with, ask them to get the council to hurry on. Speak to your TD too, speak to anyone you can, the more people you have on your side the better, keep up those residents meetings and maybe even ask the county councillor and/or TD to sit in on one to hear what people are having to deal with. Whatever you do, do not back down now, they will think they have won and will think they can do whatever they want.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 112 ✭✭toothie


    Sounds awful. I've had trouble with neighbour's kids and teenagers. My house and car have been badly damaged several times. After asking them not to climb my fence into my garden numerous times, without any heed, my friend suggested painting the fence with grease. It worked a treat, not one climber since.
    They also like to play basketball outside my sitting room and it's like a hammer on my skull. Again, I've asked them to play outside their own house but no improvement. Like someone else suggested, I now play classical music really loudly. Sometimes it moves them on, sometimes it doesn't, but at least it drowns out some of the noise. It's awful feeling intimidated and like a prisoner in your own home.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,361 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    eamonn3974 wrote: »
    ....and the Landlords for housing the unhousable here.

    So where exactly do you think these folks should live then?

    If they are just moved to another estate, then we will simply have someone else posting here with the same issues.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 283 ✭✭Crazyivan 1979


    So where exactly do you think these folks should live then?

    If they are just moved to another estate, then we will simply have someone else posting here with the same issues.

    Well, yes. No one wants people like these living next door to them. Just moving them around to different places does nothing to tackle the problem. Maybe the dutch have the right idea:

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/shortcuts/2012/dec/04/liberal-amsterdam-plans-scum-villages


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 640 ✭✭✭PLUG71


    Well, yes. No one wants people like these living next door to them. Just moving them around to different places does nothing to tackle the problem. Maybe the dutch have the right idea:

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/shortcuts/2012/dec/04/liberal-amsterdam-plans-scum-villages
    Class idea,make them live on the docks too.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    So where exactly do you think these folks should live then?

    If they are just moved to another estate, then we will simply have someone else posting here with the same issues.

    How about spike island for starters. Give these leeches nothing. No state benefits nor money for their untrained feral offspring. Let the bastards starve!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41 eamonn3974


    In reply to Ms O Bumble,..I'm not here to pass the problem on to some other poor owner or tenent in another area. While I'd love them to be moved out and that would be the preferential solution in this situation, I'm seeking advice or previous solutions of this problem.
    I'd rather the elders of the household & landlords be held accountable. Kids are kids & some horseplay can be expected but when it gets this far the parents have to account. When the parents have considerable history of the same behaviours in multiple areas maybe the social services should intervene, impose rent subsidy penalties or something like that and also the initial landlords should do their background checks. Just this morning, the family in question filled a trailer with bags and bags of rubbish so I can only imagine what state the house is in.
    In all fairness, if the kids have gotten this wild the it says alot about the environment within their households. That issue has been brought up with the appropiate people in the past and investigated but nothing changed. Definitely would'nt wish these neighbours on anyone else but myself and other neighbours have endured them as much as we can.
    It will be a matter for the suitable housing authority & social services to worry about where they go next.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,713 ✭✭✭flutered


    Sleepy wrote: »
    Have you tried the local Sinn Fein representative? Would never think of voting for them myself but their status as former terrorists is apparently very useful when they have a polite chat with such scumbags as your neighbours. Whether the threat of a knee-capping is real or imagined it'll be in their heads for a few months after and you should see some improvement in their behaviour.
    it the sinn fein rep can help, are they more entitled to a vote that the non helpers, sorry for ging off topic.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,713 ✭✭✭flutered


    frag420 wrote: »
    I have heard of people playing classical music and similar to disperse some of societies less wanted folks!!

    Next time they are outside your house open the window and blast them Beethoven!!
    also there is a type of paint advailable for this sort of carryon, it is made in derry, by who i dunno, but when painted on it never drys, also, it is hard to remove from clothes and skin, it was invented so use on downpipes a a deterrent to burgulars, mighty stuff, i had cause to use it back in the day, but the continued use of perscribed meds has eariesed it from whats left of my brain.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    Simply olive oil will do the trick on the garden wall if they are inclined to sit on it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    Simply olive oil will do the trick on the garden wall if they are inclined to sit on it.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,434 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    eamonn3974 wrote: »
    I'd rather the elders of the household & landlords be held accountable.
    This is the crux of the problem. You and many other people prefer to blame the LL rather than hold these people to account for their actions. This leads to a system where the LL gets the hassle and the people get moved on but noone actually addresses their behavioural problems. All the checks in the world cannot identify a tenant that is antisocial as there are too many barriers to stop a LL checking properly. Every LL prefers good decent quiet tenants but unfortunately the ferral element sometimes convince the less diligent LL that they are actually respectable. Either way they will be housed somewhere and their behaviour will not change as noone in authority is willing to challenge it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41 eamonn3974


    I hear what you’re saying. Primarily we hold theseindividual tenants responsible for the behavior. I’ve rented myself in the pastas have many of my friends and family and we have always respected the areaswe’ve lived in, the community surrounding & the basic human decencies whendealing with anybody locally or beyond. The total lack of consideration fromthese people is their fault solely.

    Initially, they were approached themselves., when thingsescalate the Gardai were contacted, the Gardai advised contacting the councilto get them to contact the respective landlords, but never received any furtherresponse from council, Gardai liaison or the landlords. So we are attempting tocontact the landlords ourselves to inform them what’s happening cause in allfairness..If you were renting to these people, would you not have concerns overthe behavior issue and the effects of such issues on the local people, theproperty itself and the reputation of the landlord with the other residents?

    So far, the best legal and course of action for resolutionhas been to contact the landlords and I believe they are accountable when noother recourse has been found.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41 eamonn3974


    Sorry once again for the formatting...p.c's playing up a bit.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,601 ✭✭✭cerastes


    So where exactly do you think these folks should live then?

    If they are just moved to another estate, then we will simply have someone else posting here with the same issues.

    Seriously, they should be penalised for their behaviour, maybe they will change their attitude instead of being given carte blanche to do as they please without fear of punishment. The throw our hands in the air and what can I do belief half the reason people get away with this shit.


    Keep a record of everything, keep in touch with as many people as possible, gain as much support as possible, start with a few and when others see support they may join.

    Dont just assume this support should always discuss this issue, when this sort of people see the wind has changed against them and they cannot intimidate a large group they might either quieten down or go.

    Also, contact the landlord by registered letter, make the complaint now, if they are in less than 6 months the landlord can issue a notice of termination, give the landlord a list of complaints and if you think there will be no end, demand they do something about it, or you will take the matter further with them as they have a responsibility in the matter, get others to do this too and keep a record of who has contacted the landlord, get copies of such correspondence now, in case people back out later.

    Be prepared to go to the PRTB and make your case, dont back down, try get others to attend too. Form a loose association of concerned individuals to make the complaint if possible, seek some legal advice.

    Contact the council and local representatives, put your concerns in writing, reg letter and by email, get a petition signed if possible, tell people its for councillers/Gardai to do something and will not be disclosed to the individualsand send it to representatives and remind them that it is not to be disclosed, although they should know.

    If you can even get some of that support, a PRTB case should go well.
    You do not need photo/video evidence, statements from people and even a list of events yourself when they happened will do too. But you said the incident with the block and the door was documented.

    It could take time, dont let them know you're concerned if you are, dont get baited into arguments, I would not even entertain them anymore, to complain or anything, just keep a record of everything.

    I believe putting pressure on the landlord is the best way to resolve your problem, by a number of people even better, just make sure the contacts are recorded and verifiable (registered letters).
    Think it will be a success as you live and own that house, you have no option, when others see your determination that might help.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    I assume by now you have the landlords details. Time to put the pressure on


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 17,898 Mod ✭✭✭✭Henry Ford III


    If you have really badly behaved neighbours realistically the best outcome you can hope for is to get them moved elsewhere.

    Changing peoples entire behaviour is virtually impossible. A scobe is a scobe.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41 eamonn3974


    No details as of yet Handlemaster,...council still have not replied, local Gardai liason postponed meeting til Friday adding that she didnt know what she could do about it in a casual manner & awaiting contact from another owner who has details of one of the LLs. Getting together with 4 other owners and making the PRTB option a joint effort.
    Also heard today that one of the LLs is actually residing in England so not sure where that leaves us with regard to the PRTB option.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,601 ✭✭✭cerastes


    eamonn3974 wrote: »
    No details as of yet Handlemaster,...council still have not replied, local Gardai liason postponed meeting til Friday adding that she didnt know what she could do about it in a casual manner & awaiting contact from another owner who has details of one of the LLs. Getting together with 4 other owners and making the PRTB option a joint effort.
    Also heard today that one of the LLs is actually residing in England so not sure where that leaves us with regard to the PRTB option.

    Worth following up, keeping records and in touch with these, but be careful not to appear to pester the Gardai, they wont be likely to do anything on anyones word unless there is a verifiable proof or witnesses, in which case its too late.
    By all means contact them if anyone threatens you or there is property damage as if you wished to or had to follow up a claim, I assume you would need a report from the Gardai.
    Council, might depend where you are, slow too in my opinion.

    Id get the info together yourselves, I think the PRTB route is the best one, but up to you. Its meant to make the process Gardai/solicitor free, One of the best things you can have is the complaints of a number of people and a written record of what happened when.
    Just do a list of dates and events, maybe with a little detail if needed.

    4 people would share the cost of making a complaint, €25 fee? per complaint, so €8 per complaint per person, thats ok, Id imagine each different landlord would be a seperate complaint, look at the PRTB website/ask advice/contact the PRTB. Also 4 complainants is a fairly solid statement that whats happening isnt just one persons perception.
    You can still make a complaint whether the landlord is registered, attends or not or replies or not and I believe it will still be heard. I suspect anyone not turning up to defend themselves might be viewed less favourably.

    If the landlord doesnt enact any decision, I think they could be open to prosecution as the PRTB is empowered by an Act of Law.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41 eamonn3974


    Thanks Cerastas,
    Thats the plan, multiple residents, documenting issues & notifying Gardai when the usual "gonna bust yer head" threats issued and property damage. Compiling video of the noise, loitering around the property of other tenants, being asked to move along followed by threats etc.
    I agree that the Gardai are useless unless you've got vid or some other evidence of damage or threat but we'll see will that change once we go in with what we've got. Regarding the negligence of the local council with regard to following up complaints made about tenants in recipet of council housing subsidies that will definitely be going further.
    As I've said before, the main prioritry is to get these tenants out at this stage, whether thru LL accountability or forced eviction but the secondary issue will be to highlight the negligance of the Dungarvan County Council Housing Authority and the 2 correspondants we've all dealt with. ( Name em and shame em with the full paper work background so no one has to deal with this **** again.)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,572 ✭✭✭An Ri rua


    eamonn3974 wrote: »
    Cost is the main thing with the camera's Dealhunter85. Have asked the council to put up no ball playing signs in the blocks but nothing ever happened. Kid's are a nightmare, screaming and wailing all day in the square but its the parents that we want to take accountability for them and the Landlords for housing the unhousable here. The area seems to be becoming one of those estates where all kinds of "difficult" residents are being located to at the expense of buy to reside owners.

    Purely with regards to protecting your own property and your good neighbours doing similar, I recommend getting an in-car camera to 1. protect your car and 2. give you more protection of your house and proof of lawbreaking.

    But also, and particularly for anyone else reading, it does not cost much AT ALL to run efficient home security cameras. I use an 8 year old laptop, with a wired USB webcam on my front windowsill, with the free www.yawcam.com running and sending me INSTANT emails or Dropbox files.

    I also snapped up a cheap Android phone (lots of Adverts.ie; I got an as new VF Smart II for €30) and run Securet motion detection on it (plus another streaming app if I wish) and again, it is in flight mode and uses my home's wifi to send me instant shots of my back garden. It protects my oil tank and also my back shed and in fact my back garden integrity as I have a Bollicky Bill neighbour who feels that he can just come over the 6ft wall and retrieve his kid's ball, despite treating me as if I don't exist since I moved in as a renter. So to punish his ignorance and unfriendliness, I put up CCTV stickers and a camera at the back also.
    NOTHING happens at my home (or my elderly mother's expansive property) without me having immediate knowledge.

    I wish you well with your situation. Take good advice, don't aggravate those who live in the gutter and are not looking to the stars but also don't compromise on you and your family's wellbeing. Go all out, methodically, using the law. Full bull.
    And that advice is from a serious hothead, a freedom lover and a born and bred Republican. You have a right to peace and freedom. Do not accept being oppressed by others. My cousin went through this ordeal for 3 years, for the sin of building on his grandparents' land and upsetting previously harmonious neighbours. Well off, well connected but crackers and ultimately, scum. He, unlike my natural reaction heretofore, used the law and justice was (mostly) served. As others have said, target the money. The landlord. And turn the legal screw.
    I had horrible neighbours in a previous apartment complex. One lot even owned their apartment but were heroin-using dirtbirds with 70+ convictions. Get the landlord's numbers (google and dig for linked numbers / data) and then plague that landlord while methodically following the law and the good counsel of the seasoned Boardsies and Mods here.

    Very best wishes. Persevere. It WILL come right for you. But grieve also. because you and your loved ones, and your job etc WON'T get this time back. So those B*STARDS do sort of win.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41 eamonn3974


    Latest update.
    Council finally replied saying that one house was privately rented so contact the landlord as the council has no obligation and regarding the other house, council said they had approached the tenents and found everything satifactory with them...also, if we had any evidence then submit it to the Gardai for the Gardai to process the complaint.
    Had ameeting with the Gardai liason, seemed very reluctant to handle any complaints in an offically capacity & has proposed a group meeting of difficult tenents & with all complaint residents accompanied by the liason officer to "set some ground rules".
    We were alos informed that the videos and photos could not be used as get this..."its illegal to record or photograph theses individual unless a full disclaimer and their consent is given."
    Seems to be something very very fishy with the whole situation. Guards hesitent to even allow us to make an offical complaint and council, who had met with the liason officer and the tenents in the days prior to responding to our initial complaints are a total waste of space in my opinion.

    Will have the meeting with said tenents and proceed further with the PRTB option but I can see this being a long drawn out affair despite the levels of tension and stress caused by these people.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,434 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    Send a letter to your local TD about the issue. The council don't want to know as they will have to rehouse the anti socials and will have more hassle for themselves. The Guards are in a no win situation.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41 eamonn3974


    Is there anyone out there with any legal background or wisdom that can clarify the situation with the filming of ongoing anti social behaviours. Is it legal or not and can it be used as evidence without liability?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,601 ✭✭✭cerastes


    eamonn3974 wrote: »
    Is there anyone out there with any legal background or wisdom that can clarify the situation with the filming of ongoing anti social behaviours. Is it legal or not and can it be used as evidence without liability?

    Im sure you wont get legal advice here, but when I put cameras up, I heard that you could not point them at private property or have footage of private property, I cant see why you couldnt have them pointed at your own property and possibly whats public, but dont quote me on that, as Im not a legal anything.
    Better to have statements from individuals, their testimony, all in PRTB, its the only way to go.
    Assuming you have made every effort to contact the landlord and if you can ensure you insist they ensure their own obligations to the neighbours of their tenants and the tenants obligations regarding anti social behaviour is complied with, if they cant or wont do anything, you have them, now you need to gather some statements, and a chronological list of events written down, that would suffice, with other neighbours on your side, better still.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41 eamonn3974


    cerastes wrote: »
    Im sure you wont get legal advice here, but when I put cameras up, I heard that you could not point them at private property or have footage of private property, I cant see why you couldnt have them pointed at your own property and possibly whats public, but dont quote me on that, as Im not a legal anything.
    Better to have statements from individuals, their testimony, all in PRTB, its the only way to go.
    Assuming you have made every effort to contact the landlord and if you can ensure you insist they ensure their own obligations to the neighbours of their tenants and the tenants obligations regarding anti social behaviour is complied with, if they cant or wont do anything, you have them, now you need to gather some statements, and a chronological list of events written down, that would suffice, with other neighbours on your side, better still.
    Thanks again for the insight. We had a full list of events with dates, times, photos and vid to support some and a couple of statements from the locals. The vid we have is the area directly infront of our property so I think we're clear on the issue of other properties privacy. Still having a job getting the landlords details though, have made enquiries with PRTB but awaiting reply so fingers crossed some good will come of it.
    Thanks again,


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,601 ✭✭✭cerastes


    eamonn3974 wrote: »
    Thanks again for the insight. We had a full list of events with dates, times, photos and vid to support some and a couple of statements from the locals. The vid we have is the area directly infront of our property so I think we're clear on the issue of other properties privacy. Still having a job getting the landlords details though, have made enquiries with PRTB but awaiting reply so fingers crossed some good will come of it.
    Thanks again,

    You need to seek professional advice on the camera stuff, not just my opinion, dont get stung yourself.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41 eamonn3974


    Found out that cameras can be used once 1.they do not breach the threhold of anothers property..I.e.they dont film into someone elses front door, windows or living space.
    2.once disclaimers are clearly displayed stating that survailance is actively carried out.
    3.once they have just cause for being set up I.e.security or behaviour concerns.

    But worth noting here, apparently if any minor is documented in the footage damaging property ( in our most recent case, 6 year old clearly seen picking up an object and smashing our car window while an occupied squad car was parked in the block) then the evidence makes no difference as a criminal/anti social complaint cannot be made against a child or that childs parent.
    Basically, kids can do what they like whether its documented with survailance or not and thst came from the guards themselves so back to the prtb drawing board and private solictors for a solution.


This discussion has been closed.
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