Car Tax

dk185

Hey guys, just a quick question, im heading to the tax office tomorrow to declare my car off the road from July to the end of sept. I was away fro a while. the guard told me under the new law that I probably wont be able to get this done now. is this the case....

Alanstrainor

dk185 wrote: »

Hey guys, just a quick question, im heading to the tax office tomorrow to declare my car off the road from July to the end of sept. I was away fro a while. the guard told me under the new law that I probably wont be able to get this done now. is this the case....

No you will not be able to declare it off the road.

Only options are:

1. Pay the tax
2. Change the ownership to someone else, and change it back to you, which will mean you only have to tax it from this month on.

ART6

Alanstrainor wrote: »

No you will not be able to declare it off the road.

Only options are:

1. Pay the tax
2. Change the ownership to someone else, and change it back to you, which will mean you only have to tax it from this month on.

Not sure that option 2 works, does it? When I bought my current car it was exactly one year old, first registered on the 1st of January. I took it from the dealers on the 5th February, untaxed. I then discovered that the previous owner, who handed it to the dealer in PE for a new car, did not pay the tax for the first month, so I then had to pay it for the month in which I didn't actually own the car. In that case, how could temporarily transferring ownership to someone else and back again get over that?

thenightrider

ART6 wrote: »

Not sure that option 2 works, does it? When I bought my current car it was exactly one year old, first registered on the 1st of January. I took it from the dealers on the 5th February, untaxed. I then discovered that the previous owner, who handed it to the dealer in PE for a new car, did not pay the tax for the first month, so I then had to pay it for the month in which I didn't actually own the car. In that case, how could temporarily transferring ownership to someone else and back again get over that?

You only pay tax from when you own the car it dos not matter when the car was last taxed could be years you do not pay back tax when its put in to a new owners name sounds like the dealer put the wrong purchase date on the log book when you bought your car.

ART6

thenightrider wrote: »

You only pay tax from when you own the car it dos not matter when the car was last taxed could be years you do not pay back tax when its put in to a new owners name sounds like the dealer put the wrong purchase date on the log book when you bought your car.

No, the dealer put the right purchase date in the log book, but when I went to tax the car the tax office insisted that it had to be taxed from the date of registration, and if any outstanding tax had not been paid by the previous owner then I must pay it. In my case that cost me an extra €60, so not the end of the world, but if I had bought it a few months later I would not have been happy!

djimi

ART6 wrote: »

No, the dealer put the right purchase date in the log book, but when I went to tax the car the tax office insisted that it had to be taxed from the date of registration, and if any outstanding tax had not been paid by the previous owner then I must pay it. In my case that cost me an extra €60, so not the end of the world, but if I had bought it a few months later I would not have been happy!

The tax office were wrong, simple as!

dk185

My current car hadnt been taxed for 7 months when i bought it and i only had to pay the tax from the day i bought it...

mary mary

Alanstrainor wrote: »

No you will not be able to declare it off the road.

Only options are:

1. Pay the tax
2. Change the ownership to someone else, and change it back to you, which will mean you only have to tax it from this month on.

Can i "sell" my car to my husband, even if he already owns his car, he thinks you cant but i think you can own the two cars, but ont have two Ins policies?.

Atlantic Dawn

mary mary wrote: »

Can i "sell" my car to my husband, even if he already owns his car, he thinks you cant but i think you can own the two cars, but ont have two Ins policies?.

No problem selling but for insurance purposes ideally the insured person should be on the logbook.

mary mary

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

No problem selling but for insurance purposes ideally the insured person should be on the logbook.

oh yeah i understand that, id be still insured on it - but say for "tax" purposes. can i put it in his name, then put it back in mine, it seems to be a loophole that this can be done, my car was genuinely off the road for 8 months, the guard signed it, but i was 2 days late getting to tax office, leaving me with a 700 quid bill! so i was going to A sell it for real, or B just stick in his name, and then change back after a while, (i was actually advised to do this from the girl in the tax office!!!)

thanks for your replies!

Atlantic Dawn

mary mary wrote: »

oh yeah i understand that, id be still insured on it - but say for "tax" purposes. can i put it in his name, then put it back in mine, it seems to be a loophole that this can be done, my car was genuinely off the road for 8 months, the guard signed it, but i was 2 days late getting to tax office, leaving me with a 700 quid bill! so i was going to A sell it for real, or B just stick in his name, and then change back after a while, (i was actually advised to do this from the girl in the tax office!!!)

thanks for your replies!

Yes you can, no rules against it. I suppose the only problem with it is your adding an extra owner to the car but depending on the value of the car this may not matter at this stage.

mary mary

yes thats my only reservation on doing it, its only an 09, im the second owner
...i say "only"...thats still very brand new to me hahahah

Atlantic Dawn

mary mary wrote: »

yes thats my only reservation on doing it, its only an 09, im the second owner
...i say "only"...thats still very brand new to me hahahah

If someone does a Cartell check on the car they will know it was off the road for 8 months so that will probably knock enough value off it either way.

bladespin

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

If someone does a Cartell check on the car they will know it was off the road for 8 months so that will probably knock enough value off it either way.

Shouldn't affect value once there's a reasonable explanation, tax would be one lol.

mary mary

bladespin wrote: »

Shouldn't affect value once there's a reasonable explanation, tax would be one lol.

yep thats the only reason! 600squids.....pffttt........

djimi

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Yes you can, no rules against it. I suppose the only problem with it is your adding an extra owner to the car but depending on the value of the car this may not matter at this stage.

Whatever about "selling" it to a friend, Im not so sure that it would work to transfer it to a spouse, would it? As far as insurance is concerned, both married partners are considered to be equal (when it comes to the registered owner), so would it not be the same with tax, ie youd just be transferring the ownership to yourself?

mary mary

djimi wrote: »

Whatever about "selling" it to a friend, Im not so sure that it would work to transfer it to a spouse, would it? As far as insurance is concerned, both married partners are considered to be equal (when it comes to the registered owner), so would it not be the same with tax, ie youd just be transferring the ownership to yourself?

hmm good point, but, dont think so, mine is mine his is his, i still go by my own name? but i may very well sell it to him and he sell his car and me buy a new one, still transferring ownership, still only paying tax from when he bought it???

djimi

mary mary wrote: »

hmm good point, but, dont think so, mine is mine his is his, i still go by my own name? but i may very well sell it to him and he sell his car and me buy a new one, still transferring ownership, still only paying tax from when he bought it???

It doesnt matter, you are still married. I might be wrong in what I am saying, but for insurance purposes you cant take out a policy on a car that is not registered in your name, except when you are married and it doesnt matter which spouse the car is registered to, so I wonder if its considered to be the same in this instance.

Atlantic Dawn

djimi wrote: »

Whatever about "selling" it to a friend, Im not so sure that it would work to transfer it to a spouse, would it? As far as insurance is concerned, both married partners are considered to be equal (when it comes to the registered owner), so would it not be the same with tax, ie youd just be transferring the ownership to yourself?

Technically it might be, however it could be being sold to that persons son or daughter with the same forename who lives at same address. As there's no date of birth or PPS number required for new owners details it wouldn't be possible for them to police it.

MercMad

ART6 wrote: »

Not sure that option 2 works, does it? When I bought my current car it was exactly one year old, first registered on the 1st of January. I took it from the dealers on the 5th February, untaxed. I then discovered that the previous owner, who handed it to the dealer in PE for a new car, did not pay the tax for the first month, so I then had to pay it for the month in which I didn't actually own the car. In that case, how could temporarily transferring ownership to someone else and back again get over that?

.......seems weird. The car was registered in January (new) and presumably taxed for a year ( you cannot tax a car for 11 months) therefore the disc expired end of December of that year. If you then bought it in January you would retax it from beginning of January to the following December.

There is now other way it could happen, even if he taxed it for 3,6, 9 months you only had to tax from the beginning of the month you bought it.

I think you have your dates wrong.

ART6

MercMad wrote: »

.......seems weird. The car was registered in January (new) and presumably taxed for a year ( you cannot tax a car for 11 months) therefore the disc expired end of December of that year. If you then bought it in January you would retax it from beginning of January to the following December.

There is now other way it could happen, even if he taxed it for 3,6, 9 months you only had to tax from the beginning of the month you bought it.

I think you have your dates wrong.

Nope! The previous owner first registered the car on the 1st January. He kept it for a year and then handed it in in part exchange at the end of January the following year. He didn't tax it for that next year. I took delivery of it on the 5th February that year and had to pay the tax backdated to the 1st January, so he was driving it for a month without tax. The Revenue required me to pick up the tab. An extra sixty bucks for me and no come back for him.

Even so, I have some sympathy for him. Why should he pay a full years tax on a car he would no longer own -- a tax that he couldn't reclaim? I can see his point, since then the tax was €690 a year and is now €710. That for the privilege of using something already owned and paid for with already taxed money! If the village shopkeeper tried a trick like that he would end up in jail, but that's another issue!

corktina

you should go after the Council for a refund. This is clearly wrong

darragh o meara

They'll catch onto the transferring ownership crack soon enough I think.. Was talking to some woman in Shannon today about a tax book in waiting for and she told me the amount of changes of ownerships they had in the last few weeks has been astronomical.. In fact I'm waiting on a taxbook sent in on the 1st of this month and it still hasn't been processed yet.

The big thing in hearing if is lads declaring off the road and driving away and avoiding the guards. Although judging by the amount of checkpoints starting to appear everywhere I doubt they'll get away with it for too long.

Dermo123

darragh o meara wrote: »

They'll catch onto the transferring ownership crack soon enough I think.. Was talking to some woman in Shannon today about a tax book in waiting for and she told me the amount of changes of ownerships they had in the last few weeks has been astronomical.. In fact I'm waiting on a taxbook sent in on the 1st of this month and it still hasn't been processed yet.

The big thing in hearing if is lads declaring off the road and driving away and avoiding the guards. Although judging by the amount of checkpoints starting to appear everywhere I doubt they'll get away with it for too long.

So lets say my tax expired at end of September. I declare the car off the road beforehand. I am driving it at a checkpoint and guards sees my disk outa date.
How does he know whether I have it declared off road or not. The checkpoint guards never seem to use ANPR, just their eyesight. Fair enough after 2 months expiry he can seize car but up to 2 months how wil they know?

Scortho

Dermo123 wrote: »

So lets say my tax expired at end of September. I declare the car off the road beforehand. I am driving it at a checkpoint and guards sees my disk outa date.
How does he know whether I have it declared off road or not. The checkpoint guards never seem to use ANPR, just their eyesight. Fair enough after 2 months expiry he can seize car but up to 2 months how wil they know?

Garda pulse system

S28382

Dermo123 wrote: »

So lets say my tax expired at end of September. I declare the car off the road beforehand. I am driving it at a checkpoint and guards sees my disk outa date.
How does he know whether I have it declared off road or not. The checkpoint guards never seem to use ANPR, just their eyesight. Fair enough after 2 months expiry he can seize car but up to 2 months how wil they know?

This only happened to a mate of mine last week and the cops didnt say a word to him about his car being declared off the road when he was stopped at a checkpoint for no tax. They ran the car through the system and it didnt show up as being off the road.

CiniO

S28382 wrote: »

This only happened to a mate of mine last week and the cops didnt say a word to him about his car being declared off the road when he was stopped at a checkpoint for no tax. They ran the car through the system and it didnt show up as being off the road.

Most likely due to delay from motortax offices processing the forms.
If they can have 6 months delays issuing driving licences, I'm sure off-road declarations are no better.

S28382

CiniO wrote: »

Most likely due to delay from motortax offices processing the forms.
If they can have 6 months delays issuing driving licences, I'm sure off-road declarations are no better.

Thats exactly what i said to my mate, typical Irish thing it takes forever to get something done.

KALO

Just a quick question re car tax. I'm buying a car that has no tax on it since jan of this year.
Will I be liable to pay back tax as the new owner?

Any advice lads? Obviously don't want to be paying 9 months back tax.

Cheers folks.

S28382

KALO wrote: »

Just a quick question re car tax. I'm buying a car that has no tax on it since jan of this year.
Will I be liable to pay back tax as the new owner?

Any advice lads? Obviously don't want to be paying 9 months back tax.

Cheers folks.

Nope you are the new owner so you are only liable from the date of purchase.

Alanstrainor

KALO wrote: »

Just a quick question re car tax. I'm buying a car that has no tax on it since jan of this year.
Will I be liable to pay back tax as the new owner?

Any advice lads? Obviously don't want to be paying 9 months back tax.

Cheers folks.

No. you are only liable for the tax from.the month of purchase.

Dermo123

S28382 wrote: »

This only happened to a mate of mine last week and the cops didnt say a word to him about his car being declared off the road when he was stopped at a checkpoint for no tax. They ran the car through the system and it didnt show up as being off the road.

I'd say your mate was planking it while they were checking.
I wonder what the guards would do if they found it was declared off road?

S28382

Dermo123 wrote: »

I'd say your mate was planking it while they were checking.
I wonder what the guards would do if they found it was declared off road?

He didnt really give a sh*t, it got impounded and he just paid the release fee the next day and now his car is back on his drive untaxed and he doesnt plan to tax it for another month as its declared off the road until November.

CiniO

Brilliant.
That shows how much of a sense is this new off-road declaration system.

Del2005

S28382 wrote: »

He didnt really give a sh*t, it got impounded and he just paid the release fee the next day and now his car is back on his drive untaxed and he doesnt plan to tax it for another month as its declared off the road until November.

Being lifted from a road would affect the declaration.

S28382

CiniO wrote: »

Brilliant.
That shows how much of a sense is this new off-road declaration system.

The new system hasnt changed anything as you can declare your car off the road for up to a year and get away with it and if you felt like taxing it within the said year then you could so its not much different from the old system.

CiniO

Del2005 wrote: »

Being lifted from a road would affect the declaration.

Are you sure anyone is going to check it in the future, that car which was impounded was actually declared off the road at that time, considering they didn't find it out at the moment of impounding?

KALO

Cheers for that. Great relief.

KALO

Cheers for that quick reply. Nice to know.

CiniO

S28382 wrote: »

The new system hasnt changed anything as you can declare your car off the road for up to a year and get away with it and if you felt like taxing it within the said year then you could so its not much different from the old system.

I was saying from the beginning, that old system was already unnecesserily complicated, and new one is even worse, while won't really solve the problem.
What's the point in any kind of declarations (in advance or retrospective).
It's really perfectly simple.

You tax your tax - you can drive.
You don't want to drive - you don't tax your car.
If you are caught driving untaxed car, you suffer very heavy fine.

That's all - perfectly simple, and straighforward.
Introducing system like the one we have now, only makes huge workload for motortax office employees, which will need to work more (and get paid more), while in reality it's not going to solve any problems.

I really can't understand why system couldn't be that simple as above.

S28382

CiniO wrote: »

I was saying from the beginning, that old system was already unnecesserily complicated, and new one is even worse, while won't really solve the problem.
What's the point in any kind of declarations (in advance or retrospective).
It's really perfectly simple.

You tax your tax - you can drive.
You don't want to drive - you don't tax your car.
If you are caught driving untaxed car, you suffer very heavy fine.

That's all - perfectly simple, and straighforward.
Introducing system like the one we have now, only makes huge workload for motortax office employees, which will need to work more (and get paid more), while in reality it's not going to solve any problems.

I really can't understand why system couldn't be that simple as above.

Theres nothing like a bit of bureaucratic complications to help us on our way......so it seems they are leading us to believe with their silly laws and regulations.

djimi

CiniO wrote: »

I was saying from the beginning, that old system was already unnecesserily complicated, and new one is even worse, while won't really solve the problem.
What's the point in any kind of declarations (in advance or retrospective).
It's really perfectly simple.

You tax your tax - you can drive.
You don't want to drive - you don't tax your car.
If you are caught driving untaxed car, you suffer very heavy fine.

That's all - perfectly simple, and straighforward.
Introducing system like the one we have now, only makes huge workload for motortax office employees, which will need to work more (and get paid more), while in reality it's not going to solve any problems.

I really can't understand why system couldn't be that simple as above.

You can automate the new system (not that we have done, but in theory we could); you couldnt automate the old system. Its a step in the right direction. Whether we will ever get there is another thing...

CiniO

djimi wrote: »

You can automate the new system (not that we have done, but in theory we could); you couldnt automate the old system. Its a step in the right direction. Whether we will ever get there is another thing...

But tell me honestly.
Even simpler system than old one.

No declarations whatsoever.
You tax your vehicle or not tax it.
If you are caught driving untaxed, then heavy fine or prison applies.

What's wrong with that? Why do we need a complex system that needs automation and work or thousands of civil servants?

It's really perfectly simple. You tax your car - you can drive. If you don't tax it and drive, and you are caught - then you suffer heavy fine. ANPR system can be set to detect those untaxed. (I'm sure it's not too difficult to create database of untaxed vehicles).

Really simple and efficient.

djimi

As far as I see it, the new system just makes it easier to track cars; its either taxed or its off the road. If its neither, then a warning/fine can be issued automatically. There is no "limbo" state like that was under the old system.

Maybe it wont change much, but I feel that its just the first step.

2 stroke

ART6 wrote: »

No, the dealer put the right purchase date in the log book, but when I went to tax the car the tax office insisted that it had to be taxed from the date of registration, and if any outstanding tax had not been paid by the previous owner then I must pay it. In my case that cost me an extra €60, so not the end of the world, but if I had bought it a few months later I would not have been happy!

Sounds like you bought an import, or tax office is wrong, or purchase date is wrong/car was registered in your name in January.

2 stroke

Still waiting for a tax disc applied for on 30th september 2013. I have not driven the car since august, declared one month off the road for september. I phoned yesterday, was told there was a 3 week backlog.
It's totally unaceptable. It's a legal offense for me to drive without a tax disc, yet the government don't hire enough staff to meet their deadlines.

wonski

2 stroke wrote: »

Still waiting for a tax disc applied for on 30th september 2013. I have not driven the car since august, declared one month off the road for september. I phoned yesterday, was told there was a 3 week backlog.
It's totally unaceptable. It's a legal offense for me to drive without a tax disc, yet the government don't hire enough staff to meet their deadlines.

I always get mine in 2-4 days. Something is not right here. Have you applied online? If so you can check the status online.
3 weeks backlog sounds unreal - and unaaceptable indeed.

2 stroke

Dropped it into their letter box 30th september, huge Q outside.

wonski

Online is the quickest way to tax the car these days. Snail mail is the slowest, but 3 weeks is taking a piss...

steirishrover

My last tax was out of date from July.. Car was off the road for 2 months & now I have it back on road so all in all it's not been taxed in 4 months.. I have garage proof of this being off the road so instead me back taxing for when it was off road could I not just register the car in my wife's name & pay from now onwards? My wife is on insurance with me so would it matter?

Marlow

djimi wrote: »

so would it not be the same with tax, ie youd just be transferring the ownership to yourself?

The system is not that good. It just sees the ownership change. In theory, she could sell the car to herself and just put her maiden name on the logbook for the buyer. Job done. Now, if they copped on to that, it would land her in a lot of legal trouble, but as for the system and the way Shannon deals with it, that's gonna work.

At the end of the day, all this changing ownership lark is still tax fraud.

S28382 wrote: »

Thats exactly what i said to my mate, typical Irish thing it takes forever to get something done.

Dermo123 wrote: »

I'd say your mate was planking it while they were checking.
I wonder what the guards would do if they found it was declared off road?

It's a 1500 EUR fine to be caught with a car, that is declared off the road, unless you're the only person in the car, it's your car and you can prove, that you're either on the way from (or to) the NCT/DOE center, which is the only time you legally can drive it without tax.

When people start getting caught for that sort of shenanigans, they'll stop chancing it very quickly.

/M