Winter tyres on a 4x4. Yes or no?

Jimmy Garlic

I am debating whether or not to put winters on my 4x4. The road I live on is almost inaccessible by a 2wd in really icy conditions. I don't want to put winters on and look like an eijit if we get a really mild winter. Will a 4x4 on standard tyres do the job ok if we get a really icy winter?

dnme

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

I am debating whether or not to put winters on my 4x4. The road I live on is almost inaccessible by a 2wd in really icy conditions. I don't want to put winters on and look like an eijit if we get a really mild winter. Will a 4x4 on standard tyres do the job ok if we get a really icy winter?

Well it isn't Canada or even Alaska were in. So far the mildest autumn / winter I can ever remember. Still mowing grass and going to the beach. If the weather is to turn you'll get a few days notice off our Evelyn

flintash

First of all, NOBODY gonna notice if those tyres are winter ones. I tell you, last year one morning was snowing, I had to get up early and replace wheels for missus SUV just to brink kids to school. Tyres studded mind you . Now take the price of repair when you run into dicht versus cost of tyres. I see no regret fitting winter tyres each year. It gives my total peace of mind.

visual

I use AT rated for Mud and Snow all year round

No one pays any attention to tyres at all.
And winter road tyres look very similar to summer road tyres to the average person.

Anyone who does know their tyres will also know that summer tyres become harder and less grippy when temperatures fall in to single digits. From about 5 degrees and below winter tyres softer compound will give you better grip.

Winter tyres are not just for snow and ice but this is when its extra grip is most noticeable.

vibe666

I use BF Goodrich All-Terrain T/A K.O. all year round and have never had any issues in any conditions, dry, wet, snow, mud and everything in between.

They are not cheap by most standards, but they are "all weather" rated and the most hard wearing tyre I've ever had and they pay for themselves in mileage and almost unstoppable grip.

Had them on my old Pajero (twice) and just about to get more of them on my new mk7 now that the ones on it have worn down and the weather is getting worse and they will be worth every penny.

biko

I've got Geolandar A/T-S on my 4wd and they're ok, not the best but ok.

Anan1

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

I am debating whether or not to put winters on my 4x4. The road I live on is almost inaccessible by a 2wd in really icy conditions. I don't want to put winters on and look like an eijit if we get a really mild winter.

FFS, do you feel like an eejit when you wear your seatbelt and don't crash? If you want to be able to drive on snow/ice then fit winter tyres.

corkgsxr

I would. Remember a jeep is alot of weight to stop in wet conditions. Winter will help you alot

biko

Alternatives are snow socks or chains. It depends really on how bad your road is.

Marcusm

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

I am debating whether or not to put winters on my 4x4. The road I live on is almost inaccessible by a 2wd in really icy conditions. I don't want to put winters on and look like an eijit if we get a really mild winter. Will a 4x4 on standard tyres do the job ok if we get a really icy winter?

Why not go half and half; I have Pirelli Scorpion Mud & Snow which are an all weather rather than a Summer or Winter. I don't think the climate is harsh enough for out ad out winters. I never had issues on Summer tyres (Conti Sport contact) but M&S gives me European cover, if needed (Germany effectively requires winters until end April).

Mar4ix

yes. No harm have another wheel set with winter tyres. my wifes car have, and mine car also.

Just remind - winter tires doesnt give same performance as summer tires in summer time. it still will slide, but will be possible control that.

CJhaughey

BFG AT/KO are winter rated, they have the little mountain symbol on the sidewall.
I can attest to the fact that they work very well on cold and icy roads, in the 2010 winter, there had been a hail shower that had frozen to the road, it was hard ice but slightly textured.
I came on a woman in an Avensis wheelspinning on the incline, I stopped and got out to help her and nearly slipped over myself.
Hooked her up to the Landcruiser and pulled her up the hill to a level area where she could resume her journey.
The BFG AT KO performed extremely well during the tow with no wheelspin on the icy road.
They also last for a very long time.
I'd fit them before pure winter tyres which will last a very short time outside the temperature window they are designed for.

vibe666

Anan1 wrote: »

FFS, do you feel like an eejit when you wear your seatbelt and don't crash? If you want to be able to drive on snow/ice then fit winter tyres.

I can 100% guarantee you that all weather, all-terrain tyres are perfectly fine in 4WD in pretty much any conditions.

I had to rescue my wife when her train wouldn't go any further than ashtown on the worst day of the worst snowy weather in recent history.

I drove my Pajero with bfg's from Navan to ashtown to collect her and when the roads back to the n3 were blocked with stuck cars I drove back through ashtown, up the ratoath road round the back of Finglas (which is a steep enough hill) which was thick with snow and ice and covered in stuck cars before making my way via the back roads all the way to ratoath and on home to Navan, most if which was totally empty as the weather was so bad and I didn't have one bit of trouble the whole way.

Unless the OP plans on driving in the Himalayas, AW AT boots will be perfectly fine.

Anan1

vibe666 wrote: »

I can 100% guarantee you that all weather, all-terrain tyres are perfectly fine in 4WD in pretty much any conditions.

I had to rescue my wife when her train wouldn't go any further than ashtown on the worst day of the worst snowy weather in recent history.

I drove my Pajero with bfg's from Navan to ashtown to collect her and when the roads back to the n3 were blocked with stuck cars I drove back through ashtown, up the ratoath road round the back of Finglas (which is a steep enough hill) which was thick with snow and ice and covered in stuck cars before making my way via the back roads all the way to ratoath and on home to Navan, most if which was totally empty as the weather was so bad and I didn't have one bit of trouble the whole way.

Unless the OP plans on driving in the Himalayas, AW AT boots will be perfectly fine.

I'm sure you could have made exactly the same journey in the pouring rain on slicks. Going may be easy, but you will be able to stop more quickly on winter tyres.

corkgsxr

Anan1 wrote: »

Going may be easy, but you will be able to stop more quickly on winter tyres. I'm sure you could have made exactly the same journey in the pouring rain on slicks.

Of course its a known fact you cant crash on slicks.

jomoloney

vibe666 wrote: »

I can 100% guarantee you that all weather, all-terrain tyres are perfectly fine in 4WD in pretty much any conditions.

I had to rescue my wife when her train wouldn't go any further than ashtown on the worst day of the worst snowy weather in recent history.

I drove my Pajero with bfg's from Navan to ashtown to collect her and when the roads back to the n3 were blocked with stuck cars I drove back through ashtown, up the ratoath road round the back of Finglas (which is a steep enough hill) which was thick with snow and ice and covered in stuck cars before making my way via the back roads all the way to ratoath and on home to Navan, most if which was totally empty as the weather was so bad and I didn't have one bit of trouble the whole way.

Unless the OP plans on driving in the Himalayas, AW AT boots will be perfectly fine.

+1

spent Xmas eve and morning in the pajero collecting stranded homecomers, first black ice then falling snow on top

jeep 97 pajero import
tyres GT radials

I've a sticker on the back window
"you can go fast but I can go anywhere"

was certainly true

Anan1

vibe666 wrote: »

Unless the OP plans on driving in the Himalayas, AW AT boots will be perfectly fine.

jomoloney wrote: »

+1

spent Xmas eve and morning in the pajero collecting stranded homecomers, first black ice then falling snow on top

jeep 97 pajero import
tyres GT radials

Has either of you actually compared winter tyres to all weathers on the same car? Because I have, and the difference is huge.

Cuddlesworth

In bad conditions you don't just go up hills.

Going down a icy hill, I'd prefer to be in the light Micra on winters rather then the heavy 4wd on all seasons.

4x4 doesn't stop you any quicker.

CJhaughey

On a 4x4 its not as cheap to buy 4 x winters, I don't know the OP's tyre size but a standard 265/70/16 is at least 150ea for a budget winter tyre.
BFG are only 200 ea and while they won't perform like a true winter tyre they will allow the driver of a good 4x4 to go pretty much anywhere they want to go if driven sensibly.
Bear in mind that a set of winters is 600 and a set of summers is roughly similar its a pricey game compared to a car sized tyre.
I know winters are superior but the cost for two sets for a 4x4 is not small money.

Anan1

CJhaughey wrote: »

On a 4x4 its not as cheap to buy 4 x winters, I don't know the OP's tyre size but a standard 265/70/16 is at least 150ea for a budget winter tyre.
BFG are only 200 ea and while they won't perform like a true winter tyre they will allow the driver of a good 4x4 to go pretty much anywhere they want to go if driven sensibly.
Bear in mind that a set of winters is 600 and a set of summers is roughly similar its a pricey game compared to a car sized tyre.
I know winters are superior but the cost for two sets for a 4x4 is not small money.

This is true, but it's a once off expense. The only real extra cost is a set of cheap rims plus the possible cost of having them swapped over twice a year.

vibe666

Anan1 wrote: »

I'm sure you could have made exactly the same journey in the pouring rain on slicks. Going may be easy, but you will be able to stop more quickly on winter tyres.

I think you're missing the point of the "all weather" and "all terrain" in the name and comparing AW AT tyres on a 4x4 in snow with using slicks in the rain is a ridiculously pointless comparison.

They are designed to work well in winter and summer and have never let me down. There *may* be some performance gain to be had from winter tyres versus AW in extreme winter conditions, but since this is Ireland and not Alaska, it could be 10 years before we see serious snow again, by which point, your barely worn winter tyres will need replacing anyway.

Anan1 wrote: »

Has either of you actually compared winter tyres to all weathers on the same car? Because I have, and the difference is huge.

on a regular car the difference will be huge and that is no surprise, but on a 4WD jeep with AW AT tyres there is simply no need for it in this country, it is an unnecessary waste of money.

I make a habit of testing the limits of the traction in every vehicle I own (as and when it is safe to do so) and over the years (using my BFG's) I've done plenty of green laning, driven my Paj over rocky mountain passes in the Scottish highlands, through muddy bogs up to the axles (pulling a trailer full of turf), a muddy river almost up to the top of the bonnet, across steep hills, wet and dry sandy beaches and the very worst blizzard seen in this country in a decade and didn't get stuck or ever have any trouble stopping safely, come rain or shine.

If the OP thinks he is likely to need more than that, then I'm sure you can tell him exactly what winter tyres will do better.

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

In bad conditions you don't just go up hills.

Going down a icy hill, I'd prefer to be in the light Micra on winters rather then the heavy 4wd on all seasons.

4x4 doesn't stop you any quicker.

sorry, but that simply isn't accurate. In the worst of the 2010 winter weather, I stopped to help a stuck UPC engineer spinning his wheels on a steep un-gritted snow and ice covered hill just outside Navan here: http://goo.gl/maps/PneBJ

I towed him easily up the hill onto the flat where he could continue his journey, then later drove back down the same hill with no issues with grip at all.

I also towed 3 cars up this hill one after the other around the same time. http://goo.gl/maps/NQbvw

Neither one of the links really shows just how steep both those roads are, but anyone who knows the area can tell you they are some of the steepest hills around.

You can keep your micra on winter tyres, I know what I'd rather have.

visual

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

In bad conditions you don't just go up hills.

Going down a icy hill, I'd prefer to be in the light Micra on winters rather then the heavy 4wd on all seasons.

4x4 doesn't stop you any quicker.

I would rather be in my 4x4 drive with ATs than a single wheel drive micra that has rear drum brakes.

I came down a very steep hill with a idiot in a car just off my back bumber. I was taking a sharp right turn at bottom of hill.

I actually accelerated in corner to take advantage of the 4 wheel system. It was like a mountain goat going around corner on snow and ice. Car following spun out like a spinning top after doing 3 360 degree spins it came to a hault.

If I was in the micra I would be exchanging insurance details.

4 winter tyres on a jeep on iced road would be better than AT but not in snow.

Wet or dry roads I rather my ATs as they grip very well.

Most SUVs that get in to difficulties are on summer road tyres. The 4 wheel systems get them moving but they can't cope with ice snow or mud well and certainly don't stop well.

Mena

Could anyone recommend a great set of AT's for an 06 ML320 and more precisely where to get them?

visual

I couldn't a good deal or even the desired AT in local tyre shops.

I ordered Coopers AT from camskill in NI
It was two years ago cost me 550 euro for 5 tyres delivered to the door.

Local tyre fitter fitted them in exchange he kept the old road tyres ( was still plenty of meat on them)

The BF tyres are also highly recommend.

You can also go slightly wider with most 4x4
It will hurt mpg slightly but grip is better.

I would recommend pricing around on line
Both Cooper and BF goodridge (not sure of that spelling) in AT are good tyres. Look out for snow markings. Take your time and get it right as these can last up 50k miles so will be on there for a while.

Mena

Had the Cooper winters on the 5 series, they were bloody amazing. Was hoping to avoid going online due to the hassle of having them fitted but ce la vie.

Thanks.

vibe666

Camskill are usually the best value for the BF Goodrich All-Terrain T/A K.O. from experience and I'm always go for them personally as they've been great on and off-road and the best value for to how hard wearing they are.

When I got my old Paj it had a set of BFG's on it with 9-10mm of tread left on them. When those eventually wrote down, I got a new set (paid €170 each a few years back for 16's) and they are still on it now with at least 6mm of tread left on them over 100k miles later.

Anan1

vibe666 wrote: »

on a regular car the difference will be huge and that is no surprise, but on a 4WD jeep with AW AT tyres there is simply no need for it in this country, it is an unnecessary waste of money.

I'll ask again - Is your opinion based on experience of driving on both all weather and winter tyres?

Matt Simis

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

I am debating whether or not to put winters on my 4x4. The road I live on is almost inaccessible by a 2wd in really icy conditions. I don't want to put winters on and look like an eijit if we get a really mild winter. Will a 4x4 on standard tyres do the job ok if we get a really icy winter?

4x4 with Summer (standard eh?) tyres will likely give you better off the line traction but do nothing for turning or breaking or when you actually start to slip.


Also, I always liked this video, BMW M3 with Winters hammering a 4x4 (Scooby Forester) on Summers off the line, up a hill. They did it like 3 times and the M3 won each time, entirely due to tyre choice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STaximkaQxo

My current Scooby has 4x "Triangle" tyres, once it rains I suspect it will be like driving on Ice... got to do something 'bout that.

Tea 1000

This video is a must watch for those unsure. As fair a comparison as you'll get.
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-video/winter-tyres-vs-4x4

On 4x4's like a Pajero or Land Cruiser, I'm not sure what the all-terrain tyres would be like or how they'd compare, that's a different argument.

Anan1

Interesting that, when it comes to traction, each video seems to prove a diametrically opposed position to the other!

vibe666

Anan1 wrote: »

I'll ask again - Is your opinion based on experience of driving on both all weather and winter tyres?

my opinion is based on extensive experience driving several 4x4's with BFG AW AT's in Ireland in all types of weather over the last 10 years.

how much direct experience do you personally have of driving in snowy conditions on any type of tyre on a 4x4, considering that this is specifically what you are giving your advice on?

I have no doubt that winter tyres (even on a 4x4) will do better than all weather road tyres, and much much better than summer road tyres, but you simply cannot compare regular summer (or AW) tyres on a car (even a 4WD car) with AW AT tyres on a 4x4 in winter.

There is definitely a case to be made for winter tyres on a car (even in ireland), and they will most certainly do better on snow and ice than AW car tyres will, but for the 2 weeks a year that it *might* be necessary, they are going to spend a lot of time in your garage/shed.

at least 4 people now in this thread with 4x4's have given their direct experience of using AW AT tyres during the worst winter in recent irish history and have explained that there is simply no need for dedicated winter tyres on a 4x4 if you have decent AW AT tyres in Ireland but for some reason, several people who clearly have no direct experience themselves of what the OP needs seem to think they know better based on anecdotal evidence and their experience of AW and winter tyres on regular cars which bears no relation to the reality of owning a 4x4 with AW AT tyres in Ireland.

as a result of this, the OP is being wrongly advised to spend upwards of €800 or more unnecessarily on tyres he does not need.

Anan1

vibe666 wrote: »

my opinion is based on extensive experience driving several 4x4's with BFG AW AT's in Ireland in all types of weather over the last 10 years.

So you have no experience of driving on winter tyres, and yet you feel somehow qualified to tell us how they compare to all season tyres?

vibe666 wrote: »

how much direct experience do you personally have of driving in snowy conditions on any type of tyre on a 4x4, considering that this is specifically what you are giving your advice on?

One winter on summer tyres, two winters on all season tyres, and two on winter tyres.

vibe666 wrote: »

at least 4 people now in this thread with 4x4's have given their direct experience of using AW AT tyres during the worst winter in recent irish history and have explained that there is simply no need for dedicated winter tyres on a 4x4 if you have decent AW AT tyres in Ireland but for some reason, several people who clearly have no direct experience themselves of what the OP needs seem to think they know better based on anecdotal evidence and their experience of AW and winter tyres on regular cars which bears no relation to the reality of owning a 4x4 with AW AT tyres in Ireland.

as a result of this, the OP is being wrongly advised to spend upwards of €800 or more unnecessarily on tyres he does not need.

If you had direct experience of both (as I do) then I would take your opinion seriously. As things stand, you are comparing what you know all season tyres are like to what you imagine winter tyres would be like.

vibe666

Anan1 wrote: »

So you have no experience of driving on winter tyres, and yet you feel somehow qualified to tell us how they compare to all season tyres?

no, i feel qualified to tell you that in ireland, given how good my AW AT tyres are, that wasting €800+ on winter tyres is a totally unnecessary waste of money on a 4x4 for the limited amount of use they will get.

Anan1 wrote: »

One winter on summer tyres, two winters on all season tyres, and two on winter tyres.

what type of 4x4 and specifically what tyres?

Anan1 wrote: »

If you had direct experience of both (as I do) then I would take your opinion seriously. As things stand, you are comparing what you know all season tyres are like to what you imagine winter tyres would be like.

no, I'm not comparing anything, I'm I am sharing my experience of AW AT tyres in this country in the worst weather we've had over the last decade (as have several other people) and stating that based on that experience, AW AT tyres will perform more than well enough all year round that dedicated winter tyres are a totally unnecessary waste of money.

Anan1

vibe666 wrote: »

no, i feel qualified to tell you that in ireland, given how good my AW AT tyres are, that wasting €800+ on winter tyres is a totally unnecessary waste of money on a 4x4 for the limited amount of use they will get.

You are not qualified to give any advice on winter tyres, because you have no experience of them. I honestly would have thought this was blindingly obvious.

vibe666 wrote: »

what type of 4x4 and specifically what tyres?

A Subaru Forester turboS on Continental Sport Contacts, and a Forester 2.5XT on both Yokohama Geolandars and Michelin Pilot Alpin A4s.

vibe666 wrote: »

no, I'm not comparing anything, I'm I am sharing my experience of AW AT tyres in this country in the worst weather we've had over the last decade (as have several other people) and stating that based on that experience, AW AT tyres will perform more than well enough all year round that dedicated winter tyres are a totally unnecessary waste of money.

Put bluntly, you think your AW AT tyres are great because you don't know any better. The day you drive in bad conditions on winter tyres will be an eye-opener for you.

CiniO

Tea 1000 wrote: »

This video is a must watch for those unsure. As fair a comparison as you'll get.

Heh I can even bet, that simple FWD with winter tyres would run up faster than that 4x4 on the video.

Anan1

CiniO wrote: »

Heh I can even bet, that simple FWD with winter tyres would run up faster than that 4x4 on the video.

It did in one video, it didn't in the other!

vibe666

Anan1 wrote: »

You are not qualified to give any advice on winter tyres, because you have no experience of them. I honestly would have thought this was blindingly obvious.

i don't have any experience of bulltproof vests either, but i'd still feel very confident telling someone who lives in the countryside in ireland that they really don't need one. :rolleyes:

Anan1 wrote: »

A Subaru Forester turboS on Continental Sport Contacts, and a Forester 2.5XT on both Yokohama Geolandars and Michelin Pilot Alpin A4s.

so a softroader with full time 4WD not a proper 4x4. and the geolanders aren't a proper AT tyre, they're a very average slightly knobbly road tyre with an AT badge on them. i have no problem at all believing that the Alpin's will give vastly better performance on snowy/icy conditions than geolanders.

Anan1 wrote: »

Put bluntly, you think your AW AT tyres are great because you don't know any better. The day you drive in bad conditions on winter tyres will be an eye-opener for you.

and the day i move somewhere that has bad enough conditions for a long enough period of time to need dedicated winter tyres that are going to be useful enough to be used in place of my BFG's for more than 2 weeks a year, I'll go out and buy some, but short of the next ice age happening in our immediate future, that isn't going to be in ireland.

I'll say it again for the slow kids at the back of the class. I'm not disputing that dedicated winter tyres are going to perform significantly better in snow and ice than all-weather tyres, all I'm saying is that this is Ireland, NOT Alaska. Prior to the winter of 2010, the last significant snowfall in this country was the winter of 2000/2001 and prior to that it was 1987.

As a result of that simple fact, there is simply not enough consistently poor enough weather for it to be worth it for someone with a proper 4x4 with high/low ratio gears and diff-locks etc. buying dedicated winter tyres when decent AW AT tyres perform more than adequately all year round and on all surfaces on and off-road.

if someone wants to waste €800+ of their own money on tyres they don't need then they are welcome to do so, but convincing someone else that they NEED to spend that kind of money when they clearly don't is irresponsible.

Matt Simis

vibe666 wrote: »

if someone wants to waste €800+ of their own money on tyres they don't need then they are welcome to do so, but convincing someone else that they NEED to spend that kind of money when they clearly don't is irresponsible.

I wouldnt advocate spending EUR800(+) on Winters either and Im a fan. I would advocate spending EUR200 to 300 though on Part Worn winters, which given the limited usage you outlined, would last ages. Thats a pretty small investment/assurance for massively increased safety and mobility in extremes. Also they are lots of fun, something perhaps lost in the arguing. I had 4x Winters on my AWD Audi S8, huge laughs to be had.

But I do hear what you are saying, an All Season that performs well in the Snow sounds like a good bet, but personally I found All Seasons I tried (bought new) to be not appreciably different than Summers. That was 6 years ago (when we also had decent snow, not just 2010 which was a temp plummet and snow) however I believe there are now some competitive All Seasons.

wexie

Matt Simis wrote: »

I wouldnt advocate spending EUR800(+) on Winters either and Im a fan. I would advocate spending EUR200 to 300 though on Part Worn winters, which given the limited usage you outlined, would last ages. Thats a pretty small investment/assurance for massively increased safety and mobility in extremes. Also they are lots of fun, something perhaps lost in the arguing. I had 4x Winters on my AWD Audi S8, huge laughs to be had.

But I do hear what you are saying, an All Season that performs well in the Snow sounds like a good bet, but personally I found All Seasons I tried (bought new) to be not appreciably different than Summers. That was 6 years ago (when we also had decent snow, not just 2010 which was a temp plummet and snow) however I believe there are now some competitive All Seasons.

You'd have a hell of a time getting BFG AT2's onto an Audi S8.

As other people have already stated I can very much recommend the BFG AT's all year round. There is be some advantage to be had on icy roads with winter tyres but as far as snow is concerned there's little advantage in winter tyres on 4x4.

I've driven all over Wicklow and Wexford in 2010 in a disco with BFG at's and as a passenger in an audi allroad with Nokian wintertyres. I can tell you which I felt safer in.

To me the big advantage of the AT's is just leaving them on and not having to worry about what the weather is going to be in the morning.

If you're really worried about the weather turning arctic you could always invest in a set of studdable AT's or MT's. If you still get stuck you can put in the studs and carry on.

(as an aside the last time I encountered the Dublin/Wicklow mountain rescue defender I'm pretty sure it was wearing Hankook Dynapro RF10's. If AT's are good enough for them I think it'll be good enough for most of us)

EDIT : I always have to laugh when we get a bit of snow and the eejits with their new RR's Disco's X5's etc. are giving out something rotten that it's discgraceful that the council's can't keep the roads clear. Then you look at the car and invariably there'll be something stupid like 24 inch low profile road tyres on them.

CJhaughey

I guess it boils down to this:
In a car based 4x4, Subaru ,Audi Quattros, Suzuki, Rav4 etc a set of partworn winters would be good and not too expensive, even new ones are not that bad.
For full size 4x4's like Landcruisers,Pajeros,Landrovers etc a set of Winter tyres is pretty eyewatering, and in all likelihood not as necessary if a good winter rated AT tyre is used such as the BFG AT KO.
The difference between tyre prices is substantial comparing Car and 4x4 tyres.
The OP might clarify what they are driving to further this debate:D

Anan1

vibe666 wrote: »

I'll say it again for the slow kids at the back of the class. I'm not disputing that dedicated winter tyres are going to perform significantly better in snow and ice than all-weather tyres, all I'm saying is that this is Ireland, NOT Alaska. Prior to the winter of 2010, the last significant snowfall in this country was the winter of 2000/2001 and prior to that it was 1987.

See if you had any actual experience of winter tyres then you'd know that the benefits aren't confined to snow & ice.

vibe666 wrote: »

if someone wants to waste €800+ of their own money on tyres they don't need then they are welcome to do so, but convincing someone else that they NEED to spend that kind of money when they clearly don't is irresponsible.

Your figure of €800 is a red herring created to support your irrational antipathy towards a tyre type of which you have no experience. My winter tyres cost around the same as my summer tyres, and I'm only using one set at a time. The only real extra cost is the €150 I paid for a second set of wheels.

CiniO

Matt Simis wrote: »

I wouldnt advocate spending EUR800(+) on Winters either and Im a fan. I would advocate spending EUR200 to 300 though on Part Worn winters, which given the limited usage you outlined, would last ages.

I'd say that's pretty bad advice.
Winter tyres loose their properties of good grip on snow pretty quickly. With 4mm tread left, winter tyres are useless on snow, same as f.e. 5 year old winter tyres.
Just rubber compound becomes harder with time and don't provide good grip on snow anymore.

Used winter tyres surely still provide reasonable good grip on dry and wet tarmac, but for purely that you can use summer tyre as well - complete no point in buying winter tyres for driving on tarmac roads without snow.

If my tyre budget was limited, I'd way more prefer to get cheapest brand, new winter tyres, than best premium brand part worn winter tyre.
With summer's it's opposite. I'd prefer part worn premium brand than cheap chineese rubbish anytime.

traco

Mena wrote: »

Could anyone recommend a great set of AT's for an 06 ML320 and more precisely where to get them?

I switch from Pirelli P Zero Summers tto Pirelli Scorpion Snow and Ice every winter. Rims are OEM from ebay.de 4 years ago and came with part worns. New set going on them next week. Makes no difference if keeping the vehicle cost wise as I jsut spread the tyre wear between summers and winters.

Issue with the summers is that it will go but stopping and turning can become interesting with the weight so winters improve those issues hugely

vibe666

Anan1 wrote: »

See if you had any actual experience of winter tyres then you'd know that the benefits aren't confined to snow & ice.

no, you can still use them when there is no snow and ice, but they will not give you a significant enough advantage over any other decent AW AT tyre on anything other than snow/ice conditions, so they only real need for them is when it is snowy, i.e. not very often in this country historically speaking. they will also wear out faster than an aussie's flip-flops any time the temperature goes above 10 degrees, unlike an AW AT tyre. There will still be more tread on my BFG's after doing 50,000 miles than your Alpins will have on them brand new.

on top of that, a major disadvantage is that they will also confine you to staying ON the road, which to a large extent negates the entire point of having a 4x4, unless of course it's a softroader designed to look good on school runs, rather than a proper 4x4 which is built to go off-road.

your Alpins are going to be of very little use towing a horsebox through a muddy field, or a trailer full of turf out of the bog.

Anan1 wrote: »

Your figure of €800 is a red herring created to support your irrational antipathy towards a tyre type of which you have no experience. My winter tyres cost around the same as my summer tyres, and I'm only using one set at a time. The only real extra cost is the €150 I paid for a second set of wheels.

No, my figure is based on reality, but again you're buying regular sized car tyres for a softroader, not tyres for a full sized 4x4, which are significantly more expensive due to the extra size as anyone with a proper 4x4 will be able to tell you.

you don't have to take my word for it, just try and find a decent quality winter tyre in 265/65 R18 for less than €200 a corner fitted and you'll get a big surprise.

Big Nasty

A/T as in All Terrain tyres on a 4X4 are gonna be more than adequate in any weather this country will throw at you. Personally I think A/T winter tyres are a waste as the combination of 4WD and regular A/T's are more than enough.

The problems we saw in 09/10 was people driving 4X4's with big 20"+ rims and sports tyres not understanding why they couldn't get up a hill. If they had A/T's they would have been fine.

Lastly you're not gonna put A/T's on a car based 4X4, e.g. Legacy / Forester / Allroader. Inthis case I would agree that the smartest way to go would be to have a summer and winter set of tyres.

traco

vibe666 wrote: »

you don't have to take my word for it, just try and find a decent quality winter tyre in 265/65 R18 for less than €200 a corner fitted and you'll get a big surprise.

Very fair point - The summers I have are 19" and winters were virtually impossible to find so I sourced the 17" from Germany. These came with part worns on OEM Merc 17" rims and managed to get them delivered all info €600.

I'd definitely recommend going ebay.de if you are looking as buying rims and part worns will get you set up cost effectively if its something you plan on doing every year and are going to keep the same car.

My german is rubbish but start here and seach with teh car model number for exact fit
http://dsa.ebay.de/sch/Autoreifen-Felgen-/14770/i.html

traco

Here is 4 x 19" for an ML
http://www.ebay.de/itm/4-Winterreifen-285-45-R19-ML-M-Klasse-W164-19-Alufelgen-/141091387177?pt=Auto_Komplettr%C3%A4der&hash=item20d9b3b729

Mycroft H

Anan1 wrote: »

See if you had any actual experience of winter tyres then you'd know that the benefits aren't confined to snow & ice.

The defender used to have a set of BF Goodrich All-Terrain tyres on the solid steel rims. We bought a set of second hand wolf rims which came with Cooper Discoverer winter 4x4 tyres. The tyres were quite new on them, bought of a German fellow living in Newry.

In November 2010, we changed the rims to the wolfs with the cooper tyres and put the solid rims in the shed with the BF Gs. The coopers were excellent tyres, performed quite well in the wet and cold weather and really well in the Snow and compacted ice.

Later on during the Christmas holidays we got a puncture in one of the coopers and put the BF Gs on all round again (one of the coopers also had a leaky valve as well), planning to get them fixed after new years. Noticed no difference with the BF Gs back on. We were even towing trailers of soil fuel round to relations with them and couldn't tell them apart on solid compacted snow, ice and slush. Kept them on for the rest of the winter and on into the summer. A great tyre and definitely worth buying.

Wouldn't buy the coopers, they're a bit more expensive than the BF Gs for no real difference. So yea, I've tried both and your arguement doesn't really hold water to be honest.

vibe666

BX 19 wrote: »

So yea, I've tried both and your arguement doesn't really hold water to be honest.

Debate over then!

wexie

If anything I'm getting from this thread is that BFG AT's are a fantastic tyre.

corkgsxr

I found the coopers rubbish on a navara crew cab.

Bridge stone were good.

But I have to say for long wear, good grip and quiet the bfg's are awesome