2 dead in school shooting in Nevada

Stheno

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/us/teacher-and-student-attacker-die-in-us-school-shooting-1.1568557

A teacher has been killed along with the shooter in a school shooting in Nevada.

Two others have been injured.

They start school seriously early @ 7:30

TeddyTedson

And these storys will continue to happen until they get some decent gun control laws in place. How many more shootings will they wait for before doing something :mad:

Mint Aero

May the lord god almighty mind them
Such an awful sad thing

Kristopherus

Well, May the teacher be rewarded and RIP. And may the shooter burn in hell:mad::mad::mad:

Paddy Fields

TeddyTedson wrote: »

And these storys will continue to happen until they get some decent gun control laws in place. How many more shootings will they wait for before doing something :mad:

As long as the Charlton Heston "I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6" brigade rule, it will go on and on and on.

MadsL

TeddyTedson wrote: »

And these storys will continue to happen until they get some decent gun control laws in place. How many more shootings will they wait for before doing something :mad:

Oh, is it legal to bring a gun to school and shoot people? My bad, I thought the US did have laws against shooting people.

Paddy Fields

MadsL wrote: »

Oh, is it legal to bring a gun to school and shoot people? My bad, I thought the US did have laws against shooting people.

Yes quite true... And they really work quite well.

Witcher

So a middle school student pulled out a gun, which he obviously didn't own..and shot people.

How exactly would gun control have prevented this? He probably took one of his parent's firearms, same thing could happen anywhere.

MadsL

Paddy Fields wrote: »

Yes quite true... And they really work quite well.

If only we had someone to blame for random acts of violence...

Paddy Fields

Blay wrote: »

So a middle school student pulled out a gun, which he obviously didn't own..and shot people.

How exactly would gun control have prevented this? He probably took one of his parent's firearms, same thing could happen anywhere.

Yes quite true. Many a day I took my old man's .357 with me to the sisters of eternal misery on Mourne Road. I kept it in my school bag most days though.

Witcher

Paddy Fields wrote: »

Yes quite true. Many a day I took my old man's .357 with me to the sisters of eternal misery on Mourne Road. I kept it in my school bag most days though.

You nicely avoided the question there, I applaud you.

Stheno

Blay wrote: »

How exactly would gun control have prevented this? He probably took one of his parent's firearms, same thing could happen anywhere.

Secure gun safes in the home with restricted access?

Witcher

Stheno wrote: »

Secure gun safes in the home with restricted access?

So what's to stop someone stealing the keys?

That's exactly what Adam Lanza did; killed his mother and stole her firearms.

MadsL

Stheno wrote: »

Secure gun safes in the home with restricted access?

Who is going to inspect the gun safes of 150 million+ houses?

Paddy Fields

Blay wrote: »

You nicely avoided the question there, I applaud you.

Oops... Missed the question mark. How about you can't buy a gun in the first place.

abff

Blay wrote: »

So a middle school student pulled out a gun, which he obviously didn't own..and shot people.

How exactly would gun control have prevented this? He probably took one of his parent's firearms, same thing could happen anywhere.

If firearms weren't so prevalent, it would be a lot more difficult for someone to get hold of one and use it to kill other people.

Gun control that reduces the availability of firearms would therefore reduce the number of incidents, although I accept that it's not possible to completely eliminate the possibility of such things happening, particularly in a society where there are already so many guns in circulation.

But just because you can't completely eradicate a problem, it doesn't mean that there's no point in trying to mitigate it.

Witcher

Paddy Fields wrote: »

Oops... Missed the question mark. How about you can't buy a gun in the first place.

Yeah that's the answer. Boom...problem solved. You sound like Dermot Ahern, you won't get that reference but I'm sure some of the lads from the shooting forum will.

Paddy Fields

Blay wrote: »

Yeah that's the answer. Boom...problem solved. You sound like Dermot Ahern.

Great answer... Thanks.

MadsL

Paddy Fields wrote: »

Oops... Missed the question mark. How about you can't buy a gun in the first place.

Great idea. Except there are 300 million that have already been bought.

Balaclava1991

TeddyTedson wrote: »

And these storys will continue to happen until they get some decent gun control laws in place. How many more shootings will they wait for before doing something :mad:

Because everyone knows that criminals obey gun laws?:rolleyes:

The only effect gun laws have is to make it harder for law abiding citizens to protect themselves from crazies, criminals and a potentially tyrannical government.

Ask yourself:

1. Why do nuts attack schools and colleges where NOBODY is allowed carry a gun while there are NO mass shootings at NRA meetings?

2. Why is it that the most crime ridden areas of the U.S. are the areas which have restrictive gun laws while the areas with the lowest levels of crime are areas where the citizen has unrestricted access to firearms?

MadsL

abff wrote: »

If firearms weren't so prevalent, it would be a lot more difficult for someone to get hold of one and use it to kill other people.

Gun control that reduces the availability of firearms would therefore reduce the number of incidents, although I accept that it's not possible to completely eliminate the possibility of such things happening, particularly in a society where there are already so many guns in circulation.

But just because you can't completely eradicate a problem, it doesn't mean that there's no point in trying to mitigate it.

Let's hear your gun control plan that manages to navigate the 2nd Amendment, plus each State's constitution, the will of the US people and deals with what to do with 300m+ guns in circulation.

No rush.

hfallada

2 Americans die and there is a fresh thread about it on boards on how terrible it is( it's ridculous that thousands of innocent children have died in schools. A place that they should feel safe).

Yet 100,000 have died in Syria so far and millions have flees the country. Millions are in tents all over the country and in Lebanon and turkey. But yet the west couldn't careless.

Still In 2013 not all human life is valued equally

Filibuster

hfallada wrote: »

2 Americans die and there is a fresh thread about it on boards on how terrible it is( it's ridculous that thousands of innocent children have died in schools. A place that they should feel safe).

Yet 100,000 have died in Syria so far and millions have flees the country. Millions are in tents all over the country and in Lebanon and turkey. But yet the west couldn't careless.

Still In 2013 not all human life is valued equally

And Love/Hate has caused a cat killing epidemic..

P_1

First time wading into the gun control debate so apologies for any misplaced assumptions in advance...

I take it there's no licencing system for owning guns in the states? Perhaps it might be time to do so. As part of this licencing system you have to show that you have somewhere secure to store the guns (a registration number from the safe perhaps?). Maybe add an excise type tax on the sale of guns and bullets with the money being spent on a massive education program that basically says 'just don't go around shooting people, it isn't exactly sporting good chap'.

Second Amendment lovers are placated, the anti-gun lobby is also placated and Uncle Sam gets his cut. Everyone wins right?

abff

MadsL wrote: »

Let's hear your gun control plan that manages to navigate the 2nd Amendment, plus each State's constitution, the will of the US people and deals with what to do with 300m+ guns in circulation.

No rush.

Do I need to have a comprehensive gun control plan in order to be entitled to express an opinion on the subject?

SeaDaily

hfallada wrote: »

2 Americans die and there is a fresh thread about it on boards on how terrible it is( it's ridculous that thousands of innocent children have died in schools. A place that they should feel safe).

Yet 100,000 have died in Syria so far and millions have flees the country. Millions are in tents all over the country and in Lebanon and turkey. But yet the west couldn't careless.

Still In 2013 not all human life is valued equally

Make a thread about it then.

Witcher

P_1 wrote: »

First time wading into the gun control debate so apologies for any misplaced assumptions in advance...

I take it there's no licencing system for owning guns in the states? Perhaps it might be time to do so. As part of this licencing system you have to show that you have somewhere secure to store the guns (a registration number from the safe perhaps?). Maybe add an excise type tax on the sale of guns and bullets with the money being spent on a massive education program that basically says 'just don't go around shooting people, it isn't exactly sporting good chap'.

Second Amendment lovers are placated, the anti-gun lobby is also placated and Uncle Sam gets his cut. Everyone wins right?

There would be 300 million firearms out there under the radar, which the US government has no control over..absolutely 0. So any gun control has to restrict new sales in some way while simultaneously grandfathering 300m firearms which can be sold privately...that's unworkable.

I'm sure people like James Holmes and Adam Lanza would really have been turned around by your educational program.

theblaqueguy

It's a terrible tragedy rip to the victims

What if they installed metal detectors in every school so children or people couldn't smuggle guns into the school and shoot innocent people

The only problem is who would pay or fund them to be installed

TeddyTedson

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

Because everyone knows that criminals obey gun laws?:rolleyes:

The only effect gun laws have is to make it harder for law abiding citizens to protect themselves from crazies, criminals and a potentially tyrannical government.

MadsL wrote: »

Oh, is it legal to bring a gun to school and shoot people? My bad, I thought the US did have laws against shooting people.

Of course it's not legal to shoot someone and I would have thought you knew that!
I'm not getting into a debate about their social problems but in a country where there are countless school shootings. A responsible government would be making it as strict as possible for your average Joe to keep a gun.

SeaDaily

Blay wrote: »

I'm sure people like James Holmes and Adam Lanza would really have been turned around by your educational program.

What are you on about?

Witcher

theblaqueguy wrote: »

It's a terrible tragedy rip to the victims

What if they installed metal detectors in every school so children or people couldn't smuggle guns into the school and shoot innocent people

The only problem is who would pay or fund them to be installed

What stops the shooter killing the guy working the metal detector and continuing on?

Guy:Incognito

P_1 wrote: »

First time wading into the gun control debate so apologies for any misplaced assumptions in advance...

I take it there's no licencing system for owning guns in the states? Perhaps it might be time to do so. As part of this licencing system you have to show that you have somewhere secure to store the guns (a registration number from the safe perhaps?). Maybe add an excise type tax on the sale of guns and bullets with the money being spent on a massive education program that basically says 'just don't go around shooting people, it isn't exactly sporting good chap'.

I dont tjink people that murder others do it because no one thought to tell them not too.

Witcher

SeaDaily wrote: »

What are you on about?

Read the guy's post.....

Maybe add an excise type tax on the sale of guns and bullets with the money being spent on a massive education program that basically says 'just don't go around shooting people, it isn't exactly sporting good chap'.

MadsL

P_1 wrote: »

First time wading into the gun control debate so apologies for any misplaced assumptions in advance...

I take it there's no licencing system for owning guns in the states? Perhaps it might be time to do so. As part of this licencing system you have to show that you have somewhere secure to store the guns (a registration number from the safe perhaps?). Maybe add an excise type tax on the sale of guns and bullets with the money being spent on a massive education program that basically says 'just don't go around shooting people, it isn't exactly sporting good chap'.

Second Amendment lovers are placated, the anti-gun lobby is also placated and Uncle Sam gets his cut. Everyone wins right?

Second Amendment "lovers" would be up in arms (ahem) at a licencing system. And taxing guns? Oh boy.

abff wrote: »

Do I need to have a comprehensive gun control plan in order to be entitled to express an opinion on the subject?

Nope, but until you at least express some suggestions it is little more than hand-wringing.

P_1

Blay wrote: »

There would be 300 million firearms out there under the radar, which the US government has no control over..absolutely 0. So any gun control has to restrict new sales in some way while simultaneously grandfathering 300m firearms which can be sold privately...that's unworkable.

I'm sure people like James Holmes and Adam Lanza would really have been turned around by your educational program.

Well it wouldn't be an easy process but something does need to be done about the 300 million unregistered guns. Isn't there the ATF in the states (or has that become the DEA, I can't keep up with all the acronyms lately) who's budget could be beefed up through a levy on legit sales that, combined with a registration process could cut down on this number?

theblaqueguy wrote: »

It's a terrible tragedy rip to the victims

What if they installed metal detectors in every school so children or people couldn't smuggle guns into the school and shoot innocent people

The only problem is who would pay or fund them to be installed

If memory serves me right, a lot (obviously not all) of schools in the states have already implemented this

Guy:Incognito

As much as I dislike michael moore , do I remember a stat from one of his "documentaries" about canada having as many guns per capita as the us?

Paddy Fields

MadsL wrote: »

Great idea. Except there are 300 million that have already been bought.

Ehhhhhhhh, yeah I've been there and I know. However I applaud your defence of the 1791 right to bear arms and let's just brush shooting 20 kids in Sandy Hook under the carpet. It might never happen again eh.

theblaqueguy

Blay wrote: »

What stops the shooter killing the guy working the metal detector and continuing on?

Have him stationed in a room close to the metal detector watching the people go through it and if the alarm goes off he or she goes out gun drawn at the potential shooter so s/he can take him out before he starts shooting

P_1

MadsL wrote: »

Second Amendment "lovers" would be up in arms (ahem) at a licencing system. And taxing guns? Oh boy.

Oops, as I said apologies in advance for any incorrect assumptions. I take it I rather spectacularly made an ass of both u and me so?

SeaDaily

MadsL wrote: »

Second Amendment "lovers" would be up in arms (ahem) at a licencing system. And taxing guns? Oh boy.



Nope, but until you at least express some suggestions it is little more than hand-wringing.

I cant really understand where you're coming from in any of your posts. You seem to be suggesting that guns aren't a problem in America. If this isn't what you're saying how about you stop shooting down everyone else's ideas for how to stop killings like this happening and actually come up with some of your own?

Balaclava1991

hfallada wrote: »

2 Americans die and there is a fresh thread about it on boards on how terrible it is( it's ridculous that thousands of innocent children have died in schools. A place that they should feel safe).

Yet 100,000 have died in Syria so far and millions have flees the country. Millions are in tents all over the country and in Lebanon and turkey. But yet the west couldn't careless.

Still In 2013 not all human life is valued equally

How many of the Syrian people had access to firearms before the Arab Spring?

If every Syrian household had an AR-15 or AK-47 there would probably never have been a tyrannical Assad regime nor would the Al-Qaeda crazies who are also tearing the country to pieces would never have been able to slaughter so many Christians, Shia, Alawites and other minorities.

The KKK, the American Nazi Party, the American Communist Party, the Weather Underground, the Mafia and McCarthyite thugs were never able to take over America because Joe Citizen had access to firearms.

That's the American way.

Crazies are going to be crazies and they are going to get their hands on guns, law or no law.

The average American citizen has the right to bear arms, to protect their property and to protect their life and liberty.

MadsL

P_1 wrote: »

Well it wouldn't be an easy process but something does need to be done about the 300 million unregistered guns. Isn't there the ATF in the states (or has that become the DEA, I can't keep up with all the acronyms lately) who's budget could be beefed up through a levy on legit sales that, combined with a registration process could cut down on this number?

300 million? How high would we need to raise the debt ceiling to go around writing serial numbers down in a little book. And how would the little book help?

Paddy Fields wrote: »

Ehhhhhhhh, yeah I've been there and I know. However I applaud your defence of the 1791 right to bear arms and let's just brush shooting 20 kids in Sandy Hook under the carpet. It might never happen again eh.

1791? The 2nd Amendment is currently in force in 2013. Is the right to the inviolability of the Irish citizen's home also some archaic principle from 1937?

theblaqueguy wrote: »

Have him stationed in a room close to the metal detector watching the people go through it and if the alarm goes off he or she goes out gun drawn at the potential shooter so s/he can take him out before he starts shooting

Ah, gotta love movie scripts...

Witcher

P_1 wrote: »

Well it wouldn't be an easy process but something does need to be done about the 300 million unregistered guns. Isn't there the ATF in the states (or has that become the DEA, I can't keep up with all the acronyms lately) who's budget could be beefed up through a levy on legit sales that, combined with a registration process could cut down on this number?

There's nothing that can be done about them, they're out of the reach of the government. Any new gun control in the US would basically have to be built on the assumption that those firearms don't even exist because they can't be touched.

The new legislation would be completely undermined from the outset because those existing firearms could be bought and sold privately with no controls.

As is always stated on this issue..the cat is out of the bag in the US..the problem can't be solved by bringing the hammer down on firearms..it just can't. You could say that from tomorrow all new firearms must be kept in a safe or they'll be taken back because we're registering where all firearms are now..bottom line..and maybe some people would live by that rule but there's X how many owners out there with 300m firearms between them who wouldn't and you couldn't force them to.

The government here could bring in any new legislation they wished on firearms because they could just come around and sweep up all the legally held firearms, as is their right and say..that's the end of private ownership of firearms in Ireland. That can't be done in the US.

P_1

MadsL wrote: »

300 million? How high would we need to raise the debt ceiling to go around writing serial numbers down in a little book. And how would the little book help?

To be honest, it probably wouldn't stop a nutjob getting their hands on one if they really tried. I dunno, I guess I was applying the principle of licencing and registering cars to gun ownership.

Wompa1

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

Because everyone knows that criminals obey gun laws?:rolleyes:

It's those damn immigrants!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55sjaEDJ65k

MadsL

SeaDaily wrote: »

I cant really understand where you're coming from in any of your posts. You seem to be suggesting that guns aren't a problem in America. If this isn't what you're saying how about you stop shooting down everyone else's ideas for how to stop killings like this happening and actually come up with some of your own?

Have laws against shooting people. [✓]

To be done
Stop splashing the name and picture of the shooter across every news bulletin.
Stop running news on shooting incidents 24/7
Stop publishing body counts
Stop interviewing survivors on TV.

MadsL

P_1 wrote: »

To be honest, it probably wouldn't stop a nutjob getting their hands on one if they really tried. I dunno, I guess I was applying the principle of licencing and registering cars to gun ownership.

How does having a licence plate on your car prevent road deaths?

SeaDaily

MadsL wrote: »

Have laws against shooting people. [✓]

Well these laws are already in place but they obviously aren't enough.

Paddy Fields

MadsL wrote:

1791? The 2nd Amendment is currently in force in 2013. Is the right to the inviolability of the Irish citizen's home also some archaic principle from 1937?

Nicely brushed under the carpet... Carry on. You're doing a great job. What's a few dead kids compared to your right to have a gun eh?

abff

MadsL wrote: »

Nope, but until you at least express some suggestions it is little more than hand-wringing.

Did you actually read what I said? Please tell me exactly where I indulged in hand-wringing.

I acknowledged that there is a major legacy issue but made the point that just because you can't find a complete solution doesn't mean that you shouldn't look for a partial solution.

I don't know what that solution is (or even if there is one) but that does not make it invalid to suggest that it might be worthwhile looking for one.

Sunglasses Ron

TeddyTedson wrote: »

And these storys will continue to happen until they get some decent gun control laws in place. How many more shootings will they wait for before doing something :mad:

Forever.

One of the Sandy Hook deceased teachers families requested they be left out of any anti gun campaign as they still fully support a system that allows military weapons to be within arms reach of mentally ill family members. You could gun down the entire family of some of the Tea Party/ NRA mob and they would still insist the right to bear their arms is sacrosanct.