Hitler and JFK make similar speeches.

King Mob

enno99 wrote: »

Im done
you said Hitler never mentioned freemasons you were wrong I linked to a video
you had problems you didnt believe the transcript he doesn't say they are part of the same conspiracy as the Jews.

excerpt from Mein Kampf solved that

I did not say any such thing.

Edit: scratch that. I did say that he never mentioned the illuminati by name, this being shorthand for the Illuminati/freemasons. I was indeed wrong in this regard.

However this part still stands:

I said he never talked about them. Naming them (twice) does not equate to him talking about them being part of the conspiracy.

The video you linked, if accurate does not detail how he believed the freemasons were involved with anything. He just says their name.
Your quote from Mein Kampf sates that he believed that they were being controlled by the Jews, not that they were involved or responsible for the conspiracy.

If he believed that the freemasons were involved or in anyway significant, then why does he only mention them twice compared to all of the times he referred to the Jews?

enno99 wrote: »

you and others rattled on about context and content of the transcript and then added your own words like homeland meaning (Jewish homeland) which the text didnt contain
omitted words like small from the qoute when talking about the small international clique

I did not add any words. I was refering to the line: "who do not have a soil where that have grown up".
If you have another interpretation for this line beyond "homeland" or similar and one that applies to freemasons, but not Jews, please detail this.

Nor did I drop any words. I have repeatedly explained that Hitler was operating under a false belief.
It is wrong to suggest that the Jewish people were a small clique. Hitler was wrong.

enno99 wrote: »

Did Hitler really believe his own propaganda or was the protocols of Zion just to stir up antisemitism

Whether he genuinely believed it or not, it was still the basis for his claims and for the claims he made in his speech.

Do you believe that Hitler's claims were accurate even though they were based on the Protocols?

Conas

Corkfeen wrote: »

If you pick any quote out of context, it can throw a person in a new light but a dishonest light. Hitler's idea of 'peace' was successfully culling the world of people that he viewed to be lesser in contrast to the so called 'Aryan' race. Hitler's use of 'peace' was very much so propaganda. You're also required to ignore the fact that he was without a doubt a mass murdering psychopath.

Oh he was, but the Nazi Philosophy didn't die with the end of WW2, If anything it moved to America, and what the CIA do around the world is no different to what the Nazi's did. Nazism still exists to this very day. The CIA is one of the most evil agencies ever to exist in history.

George W Bush is arguably more evil than Hitler. He lied to an entire nation to send them to war, is responsible for the deaths of over 1 million innocent men, women, and children in Iraq, not the mention the countless horrific injuries that people will have for a life time, and he launched those wars illegally too. Then he set up these black sites, and countless people were tortured, some of it was so horrific that the CIA destroyed the tapes, and evidence, no one has yet to be held accountable for that, and no one has been put on trial yet.

The point I'm trying to make is what went on during the 2000's by the American goverment, is identical to what Hitler and the Nazi's did. I'm also 100% sure that people behind the scenes told Bush exactly what to do, and when. So there's every indication that this same clique could have told Hitler what to do, and when. Hence maybe WW2 itself was actually a conspiracy.

King Mob

Conas wrote: »

So there's every indication that this same clique could have told Hitler what to do, and when. Hence maybe WW2 itself was actually a conspiracy.

Why would we be exposing this clique if he was taking orders from them? Why did he say that the clique you are referring to is controlling everyone else except Germany?

I thought the conspiracy you were suggesting was that Hitler was the only person they couldn't give orders to, hence they caused the Allies to destroy Germany?

Conas

King Mob wrote: »

Why would we be exposing this clique if he was taking orders from them? Why did he say that the clique you are referring to is controlling everyone else except Germany?

I thought the conspiracy you were suggesting was that Hitler was the only person they couldn't give orders to, hence they caused the Allies to destroy Germany?

When JFK came into the office in 1961, the CIA had planned and plotted the invasion of Cuba, in what was known as the Bay of Pigs. They were ordering Kennedy around, but when the operation failed, he felt that the CIA had lied to him, and famously said 'I'll splinter the CIA into a thousand pieces, and scatter it to the wind'. It wasn't long after that he made that secret societies speech. Also the Military Industrial Complex wanted him to commit to Vietnam, he in the end wanted to pull out.

So what I'm saying is, JFK and Hitler could very well have been taking orders from a shadow goverment, but wanted to expose them.

"Why would we be exposing this clique if he was taking orders from them?"

Well that's the problem isn't it. Maybe they didn't want to take orders from these people, and that's why they exposed them, or made attempts to expose them, so the people would know and be alerted.

I thought the conspiracy you were suggesting was that Hitler was the only person they couldn't give orders to, hence they caused the Allies to destroy Germany?

Yes that's technically what I was implying. At first he did take orders from them though, and was funded by America. The same way Saddam Hussein and Osama Bin Laden, were funded and armed by Ronald Reagan and his goverment during the 1980s. Hitler though wanted to get rid of the private bankers, hence he printed the Treasury Certificates debt-free, which means that there would have been every effort made to have him removed from power.

But this happens even today, Saddam wanted to trade his oil in Euros not dollars anymore, sanctions and a war followed. Gaddafi in Libya wanted a United African currency to rival the dollar, and wanted to sell his oil and other resources only for the gold dinar, guess what happened to him? his palace was bombed, he was beaten, bloodied, and executed.

King Mob

Conas wrote: »

Well that's the problem isn't it. Maybe they didn't want to take orders from these people, and that's why they exposed them, or made attempts to expose them, so the people would know and be alerted.

So why didn't he just say this clearly? Why never actually say he was being controlled? Why make it about the Jews?

Conas wrote: »

Yes that's technically what I was implying. At first he did take orders from them though, and was funded by America.

But the speech you linked which you believe might be him exposing them was in 1933. The war didn't start for many years after that.

Why would he follow their orders to start a war 6 years after her decided to stop following orders and expose them?

Why would they have to start a war to kill him when they could just assassinate him?

alastair

JFK is talking about the threat/conspiracy of Communism, and the terms of censorship/press freedom that should apply in the US while countering that perceived threat. The speech was given to the American Newspaper Publishers Association, and framed in that context.

Hitler is talking about the threat of the Jewish people - the standard grab-bag of their sinister control of banking, international corporations, and the devious nature of a scattered diaspora that doesn't gel with German society. The same guff is evident all over Nazi propaganda.

Neither is referring to Freemasons.

enno99

King Mob wrote: »

If you look up the context of this speech, it is incredibly clear that Hitler is referring to the Jews.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/worldwars/genocide/hitler_audio.shtml


The only parts of that speech I see that could apply to them are references to "international cliques", but that is a very tenuous connection.

Nor did I drop any words. I have repeatedly explained that Hitler was operating under a false belief.
It is wrong to suggest that the Jewish people were a small clique. Hitler was wrong.

where is the word small which if we are talking about context and content is rather an important word to omit

and the use of the word homeland smacks of this type of bollocks

A homeland for the Jewish people was an idea that rose to the fore in the 19th century in the wake of growing anti-Semitism and Jewish assimilation, with many competing proposals considered. Jewish emancipation in Europe paved the way for two ideological solutions to the Jewish Question: cultural assimilation, as envisaged by Moses Mendelssohn, and Zionism, promoted by Theodore Herzl.[1]

whats up with the word country

King Mob

enno99 wrote: »

where is the word small which if we are talking about context and content is rather an important word to omit

And again, as I have repeatedly explained, I explained that Hitler was wrong in his belief in the claim that Jews were a small international clique. I have shown this was a popular belief at the time and one Hitler supported.

Focusing on that quote as if I was purposefully leaving out the word is pedantry. Please address the point I am actually making.

enno99 wrote: »

and the use of the word homeland smacks of this type of bollocks

Then please explain what was meant by the line "who do not have a soil where that have grown up" means and how it refers to freemasons.

BloodBath

And again, as I have repeatedly explained, I explained that Hitler was wrong in his belief in the claim that Jews were a small international clique. I have shown this was a popular belief at the time and one Hitler supported.

He's not talking about all Jews though. Rather the small number of them, especially European and American Jews at the time, that controlled most of the media and corporations much like they do today. They have a history of subversion and infiltration of the highest offices and positions internationally.

This same clique controls the worlds central banks controlling the currency for most of the world privately with no accountability to anyone. That gives them massive political power over the entire world. This isn't some wild conspiracy. This is a fact and it's something they have been doing for a long time.

While in history they controlled people by loaning money with interest they now control entire nations by loaning money with interest. Worthless money is exchanged for things with actual value. This clique amasses power and wealth in exchange for printing worthless money with interest. It's amazing really.

You can write this off as anti-semitism or realise it's an actual fact that has been ongoing for hundreds of years. Instead of listening to Jewish propaganda let's look at what some famous leaders had to say about the Jews.

WASHINGTON, GEORGE, in Maxims of George Washington by A. A. Appleton & Co. "They (the Jews) work more effectively against us, than the enemy's armies. They are a hundred times more dangerous to our liberties and the great cause we are engaged in... It is much to be lamented that each state, long ago, has not hunted them down as pest to society and the greatest enemies we have to the happiness of America."

This prophecy, by Benjamin Franklin, was made in a "CHIT CHAT AROUND THE TABLE DURING INTERMISSION," at the Philadelphia Constitutional Convention of 1787. This statement was recorded in the dairy of Charles Cotesworth Pinckney, a delegate from South Carolina. "I fully agree with General Washington, that we must protect this young nation from an insidious influence and impenetration. The menace, gentlemen, is the Jews. In whatever country Jews have settled in any great number, they have lowered its moral tone; depreciated its commercial integrity; have segregated themselves and have not been assimilated; have sneered at and tried to undermine the Christian religion upon which that nation is founded, by objecting to its restrictions; have built up a state within the state; and when opposed have tried to strangle that country to death financially, as in the case of Spain and Portugal. For over 1,700 years, the Jews have been bewailing their sad fate in that they have been exiled from their homeland, as they call Palestine. But gentlemen, did the world give it to them in fee simple, they would at once find some reason for not returning. Why? Because they are vampires, and vampires do not live on vampires. They cannot live only among themselves. They must subsist on Christians and other people not of their race. If you do not exclude them from these United States, in their Constitution, in less than 200 years they will have swarmed here in such great numbers that they will dominate and devour the land and change our form of government, for which we Americans have shed our blood, given our lives our substance and jeopardized our liberty. If you do not exclude them, in less than 200 years our descendants will be working in the fields to furnish them substance, while they will be in the counting houses rubbing their hands. I warn you, gentlemen, if you do not exclude Jews for all time, your children will curse you in your graves. Jews, gentlemen, are Asiatics, let them be born where they will nor how many generations they are away from Asia, they will never be otherwise. Their ideas do not conform to an American's, and will not even thou they live among us ten generations. A leopard cannot change its spots. Jews are Asiatics, are a menace to this country if permitted entrance, and should be excluded by this Constitutional Convention.

JEFFERSON, THOMAS. 18th century American statesman. "Dispersed as the Jews are, they still form one nation, foreign to the land they live in." (D. Boorstin, THE AMERICANS) "Those who labor in the earth are the Chosen People of God, if ever he had a chosen people." (NOTES ON VIRGINIA)

WILHELM II. German Kaiser. "A Jew cannot be a true patriot. He is something different, like a bad insect. He must be kept apart, out of a place where he can do mischief - even by pogroms, if necessary. The Jews are responsible for Bolshevism in Russia, and Germany too. I was far too indulgent with them during my reign, and I bitterly regret the favors I showed the prominent Jewish bankers." (CHICAGO TRIBUNE, July 2, 1922)

BONAPARTE, NAPOLEON. French statesman, general. "The Jews provided troops for my campaign in Poland, but they ought to reimburse me: I soon found that they are no good for anything but selling old clothes . . ." "Legislating must be put in effect everywhere that the general well-being is in danger. The government cannot look with indifference on the way a despicable nation takes possession of all the provinces of France. The Jews are the master robbers of the modern age; they are the carrion birds of humanity . . . "They must be treated with political justice, not with civil justice. They are surely not real citizens."

"The Jews have practiced usury since the time of Moses, and oppressed the other peoples. Meanwhile, the Christians were only rarely usurers, falling into disgrace when they did so. We ought to ban the Jews from commerce because they abuse it . . . The evils of the Jews do not stem from individuals but from the fundamental nature of this people." (From Napoleon's Reflections, and from speeches before the Council of State on April 30 and May 7, 1806.)

"Nothing more contemptible could be done than the reception of the Jews by you. I decided to improve the Jews. But I do not want more of them in my kingdom. Indeed, I have done all to prove my scorn of the most vile nation in the world." (Letter to his brother Jerome, King of Westphalia, March 6, 1808)

1). Every big and small Jew in the peddling trade must renew his license every year.

2). Checks and other obligations are only redeemable if the Jew can prove that he has obtained the money without cheating. (Ordinance of March 17, 1808. Napoleonic Code.)

DE GAULLE, CHARLES. 20th century French politician. Addressing the Zionist imbroglio in the Mideast in a news conference of November 27, 1967, he observed: "The Jews remain what they have been at all times: an elite people, self-confident and domineering."

ADRIEN ARCAND, Canadian political leader of the 1930s "Through their (Jew's) international news agencies, they mold your minds and have you see the world not as it is, but as they want you to see it. Through their cinema, they are the educators of our youth -- and with just one film in two hours, can wipe out of a child's brain what he has learned in six months in the home, the church or the school."

WILLIAM JENNINGS BRYANT, three times the Democratic Party candidate for President said: "New York is the city of privilege. Here is the seat of the Invisible Power represented by the allied forces of finance and industry. This Invisible Government is reactionary, sinister, unscrupulous, mercenary, and sordid. It is wanting in national ideals and devoid of conscience . . . This kind of government must be scourged and destroyed."

General Patton
"Evidently the virus started by Morgenthau and Baruch of a Semitic revenge against all Germans is still working. Harrison (a U.S. State Department official) and his associates indicate that they feel German civilians should be removed from houses for the purpose of housing Displaced Persons. There are two errors in this assumption. First, when we remove an individual German we punish an individual German, while the punishment is -- not intended for the individual but for the race. Furthermore, it is against my Anglo-Saxon conscience to remove a person from a house, which is a punishment, without due process of law. In the second place, Harrison and his ilk believe that the Displaced Person is a human being, which he is not, and this applies particularly to the Jews, who are lower than animals."

Ulysses S. Grant
"The Jews, as a class, violating every regulation of trade established by the Treasury Department, and also Department orders, are hereby expelled from the Department (comprising areas of Tennessee, Mississippi, and Kentucky)."

The list could go on and on. It's also no surprise that operation Northwoods was drafted by a Jew. Lyman Lemnitzer. Only for Kennedy it would have passed. Who's to say a similar operation hasn't been put into effect since.

Corkfeen

Just because a person is historically a fantastic individual. Does not mean he can't have illogical and highly prejudicial opinions. The statements are basically reiterating anti-semitic stereotypes, doesn't mean that they're anything more than bigoted statements. The vast majority of the people you quoted also firmly believed themselves to be superior to black people, should that also be considered to be a rational opinion?

Reekwind

enno99 wrote: »

Im 100% sure Hitler was a total nutter He thought Jews/Gays/Gypsies and so on even down to smokers were sub human and yes he even included Freemasons

Of course. But Hitler opposed Masons, like communists and homosexuals, because he considered them tools of the Jews. In the great Nazi pantheon of hatred, everything negative stemmed from Jewish plots. Wall Street? A Jewish front. The Comintern? A Jewish front. The Masons? A Jewish front. Jazz bands? A Jewish front. And so on and so on

So when Hitler refers to shadowy forces plotting war, he's talking about the Jews. Not their front men

The number of Freemasons from Nazi occupied countries who were killed is not accurately known, but it is estimated that between 80,000 and 200,000 Freemasons were murdered under the Nazi regime

So wait, now an organisation that numbers in the millions worldwide now qualifies as a "small clique"? Really?

and the use of the word homeland smacks of this type of bollocks

Has anyone ever, in the entire history of Masonry, made a deal about the lodges lacking "who do not have a soil where they have grown up"? Is that a thing with Masonry? That it lacks a home nation? I don't know

What I do know is that the idea of the Jews as an essentially homeless race of 'rootless cosmopolitans, is a prominent feature of antisemitism. It's something that Hitler himself referred to many time. And I see absolutely no reason not to assume that this case in question was not one of them

BloodBath wrote:

You can write this off as anti-semitism

I think I will. What with it being antisemitic garbage


EDIT:

How did I miss this?

Conas wrote:

If anything it moved to America, and what the CIA do around the world is no different to what the Nazi's did...

Yes, it moved to America. Where today millions of Jews and communists are worked to death in forced labour camps as part of an industrial-strength campaign of extermination. Well known fact, that

George W Bush is arguably more evil than Hitler. He... is responsible for the deaths of over 1 million innocent men, women, and children in Iraq

That really is something. I mean, to top Iraq you'd really have to do something really atrocious. Like... oh I don't know, murder almost twenty million civilians as part of a state-led campaign of genocide. Plus tens of millions more war dead in a war of aggression to conquer Europe. But that's unlikely to ever happen, right?

The point I'm trying to make is what went on during the 2000's by the American goverment, is identical to what Hitler and the Nazi's did

History is not your strong suit, is it?

enno99

Reekwind wrote: »

So wait, now an organisation that numbers in the millions worldwide now qualifies as a "small clique"? Really?

I know cant get my head around that one either

Guess he wasnt talking about the Jews then there were 15.3 million of them at the time

Torakx

Yes we know Hitler was a madman and was responsible for the murder of millions.
That he has credit for world wide.
Bush does not, yet credit where its due I say.

So where are we at now?
Since these Elite Jewish families have run the monies of the western world for centuries, are we all agreed that this is the reason for Hitlers percieved need to destroy them and weed them out of "his" society?

I can't argue against the idea that they were behind the secret societies as well as the banking issues.
It could well be true. Secret societies started in the same area more or less from my memory.

What about the idea that these same Elites funded Hitler and drove him to the state of mind he ended up at, then used his war as a way to forever have a scapegoat and free pass in the future and even take over Palestine.
It seems that even a hint of using the J word and you will be stomped on so hard you wish you had said the N word, because hey they don't rule the world yet and there aren't many white guys in power who get that offensive over their race or clique being mentioned as responsible for something.

On a personal note now, I don't give a toss where anyone is from, what they look like etc.
But this kind of global behaviour makes me suspicious.And when something doesn't seem as everyone else thinks, I start to get curious and question things, as the other people here questioning this issue with Hitler.
I mean If I start going on about Gypsies in a blog and how they are a pain and trouble to society or something along those lines, will I get in trouble anywhere?
Will I be stopped from entering the United States of America?
I don't think so.

I am pretty sure if I alternatively if I write a blog about some of the issues here, I WILL be on a no fly list for the USA.

Thats if I am not already. To be honest I know back during Obama's visit that these forums and all my posts where monitored.
My email has been hacked and left as it was sometime before that with no apparent consequences.
I'm guessing I am on a no fly list already, but since I would not be paid to go there, it's ok

Theres a reason for these things. And it might not be because Hitler was wrong, what if it is because he was right and just went way too far trying to get a hold of something he could not catch so easily.
Causing him to try and exterminate all within his reach and then hope to carry that on across the globe.

I can't argue against the fact that it is a jewish family of bankers who are responsible for so much grief and sorrow on a large portion of this planet.
It is these people Hitler should have targeted. the rest I believe are as neurotic as the Muslims,Catholics,Prodestants,JW's special favourite of mine hehe, etc etc

BloodBath

Just because a person is historically a fantastic individual. Does not mean he can't have illogical and highly prejudicial opinions. The statements are basically reiterating anti-semitic stereotypes, doesn't mean that they're anything more than bigoted statements. The vast majority of the people you quoted also firmly believed themselves to be superior to black people, should that also be considered to be a rational opinion?

You might have a point if the list of prominent people in History was a small one but the list of people saying the same things for hundreds of years and the evidence for it is overwhelming. Are they all anti-semites? You know all this anti semite spiel was propagated by the Jews themselves right. Why can nobody criticise their actions or question their intentions without being labeled an anti semite?

I think I will. What with it being antisemitic garbage

Fair enough. Believe what you will.

That really is something. I mean, to top Iraq you'd really have to do something really atrocious. Like... oh I don't know, murder almost twenty million civilians as part of a state-led campaign of genocide. Plus tens of millions more war dead in a war of aggression to conquer Europe. But that's unlikely to ever happen, right?

How about 20-30 million casualties, the majority of which were civilians, caused by American wars since after WW2?

alastair

Glad to see the normal symbiosis of conspiracy theorists and anti-semitism is at play. It just wouldn't be the same otherwise.

Carry on.

Mod: Banned

BloodBath

Well it's bollocks. Anti-Semitism is defined as hatred or discrimination towards Jews because of their religion or ethnicity and it is definitely neither of those.

I couldn't give a crap what race or religion anybody is. It has nothing to do with it. So stop throwing the anti semite bs out there. It makes no sense.

King Mob

BloodBath wrote: »

You might have a point if the list of prominent people in History was a small one but the list of people saying the same things for hundreds of years and the evidence for it is overwhelming. Are they all anti-semites?

I'm sure we can find a long long list of famous historical figures saying the same thing going back centuries: telling us how black people are naturally slaves and that slavery is good for them.

Should we accept that as fact?

BloodBath wrote: »

You know all this anti semite spiel was propagated by the Jews themselves right. Why can nobody criticise their actions or question their intentions without being labeled an anti semite?

There's a difference between criticising some one who is Jewish and accusing people of being involved in a centuries old conspiracy because they are Jewish.

It's funny how this anti-anti semetic spiel about "not being able to critise Jews" was proagated by anti-semeties...

Like this comment for instance:

The list could go on and on. It's also no surprise that operation Northwoods was drafted by a Jew. Lyman Lemnitzer. Only for Kennedy it would have passed. Who's to say a similar operation hasn't been put into effect since.

Why was it no surprise that it was created by a Jew exactly?

Conas

Reekwind wrote: »

Yes, it moved to America. Where today millions of Jews and communists are worked to death in forced labour camps as part of an industrial-strength campaign of extermination. Well known fact, that

Give all of us a break will you. The Israeli/Jewish goverment get billions of dollars in foreign aid every single year. They get more than anyone. It's disturbing the amount of influence they have on the American goverment. Their Prime-Minister is one of the most dangerous men in the world. Look at the amount of dead Palestinians he has on his hands. His warmongering against Iran is shocking. He's dying for a war against them, and is doing everything he can to get America involved. He's on about them having Nuclear Weapons, it always makes me laugh, because every one in the world knows Israel has Nuclear Weapons, that their cunningly able to hide, and no one except President Kennedy had the nerve to question them on. If anything Israel could wipe Iran off the face of the earth, with their Nuclear weapons. Just remember the Israeli Prime Minister went to America in 2002, and he said 'there is no question, no question whatsoever that Saddam has weapons of mass destruction'. and he's doesn't have to be held accountable for anything. It's very, very suspicious.

Reekwind wrote: »

That really is something. I mean, to top Iraq you'd really have to do something really atrocious. Like... oh I don't know, murder almost twenty million civilians as part of a state-led campaign of genocide. Plus tens of millions more war dead in a war of aggression to conquer Europe. But that's unlikely to ever happen, right?

Powerful people, in very powerful positions want war to happen. It doesn't matter how many people have to die. In the world of currency, oil, and war people make huge profits. Freedom and democracy is the last thing they want to spread. But Americans are so brain washed at this stage by the carefully controlled main stream media, they will believe anything.

So many people have been labeled anti-semitic these days, it's scary. Two Irish presidents, Michael D Higgins and Mary Robinson, have been victims of it. Notice the way even today in America if you question the Jews, or question Israel, you get attacked, insulted, you could lose your job, and your reputation is destroyed, like it was with Helen Thomas, and Mel Gibson. It's just so suspiciously strange.

Us Irish Catholics suffered more than the Jews, we were persecuted for 800 years, During the Irish Famine we were left to die through starvation and disease, In the 1798 rebellion when we sought independence, countless people were massacred. Irish people that were injured in hospitals were burnt alive. People were tortured through pitching capping and half hanging. Look at the suffering we've had to endure.

BloodBath

I'm sure we can find a long long list of famous historical figures saying the same thing going back centuries: telling us how black people are naturally slaves and that slavery is good for them.

Should we accept that as fact?

Maybe. But we can only decode the present and potential future by looking at the past. It's a complicated history that i don't even pretend to fully understand but I don't believe the history of persecution and expulsion of Jews in and from Europe was simply down to the fact that they were Jews. I know the catholic church has a lot of blood on their hands in this regard though.

There's a difference between criticising some one who is Jewish and accusing people of being involved in a centuries old conspiracy because they are Jewish.

It's funny how this anti-anti semetic spiel about "not being able to critise Jews" was proagated by anti-semeties...

Maybe you're right. I just find it strange that they have suffered hundreds of years of persecution practically anywhere they went. Is it simply because they were Jews or was there an underlying cause for this hatred. Surely all of these highly intelligent men had more reason to be wary of Jews simply because they were Jews? I honestly don't know the answer.

Why was it no surprise that it was created by a Jew exactly?

It's exactly the kind of subversive tactics used by Israel to gain support for their actions. The same kind of subversion and lies that lead people to believe the 6 day war was a pre-emptive strike and not in fact an illegal war. You can label me an anti semite but I'm an anti Zionist.

King Mob

BloodBath wrote: »

Maybe. But we can only decode the present and potential future by looking at the past. It's a complicated history that i don't even pretend to fully understand but I don't believe the history of persecution and expulsion of Jews in and from Europe was simply down to the fact that they were Jews. I know the catholic church has a lot of blood on their hands in this regard though.

Maybe you're right. I just find it strange that they have suffered hundreds of years of persecution practically anywhere they went. Is it simply because they were Jews or was there an underlying cause for this hatred. Surely all of these highly intelligent men had more reason to be wary of Jews simply because they were Jews? I honestly don't know the answer.

And black people were enslaved and denied rights for hundreds of years. Do you think that there could be an underlying cause for this as well?

BloodBath wrote: »

It's exactly the kind of subversive tactics used by Israel to gain support for their actions. The same kind of subversion and lies that lead people to believe the 6 day war was a pre-emptive strike and not in fact an illegal war. You can label me an anti semite but I'm an anti Zionist.

So because he is a Jew he is more likely to suggest subversive, sneaky and evil acts?

You didn't state that he would suggest this because he was Israeli or because he supported Zionism or any other factor. You stated this because he was a Jew.
That's simply and clearly racist.

Accusing someone of being something because of their heritage is racism.
Disguising this behind "anti-Zionism" is another common tactic propagated by anti-semites.

Conas

King Mob wrote: »

You didn't state that he would suggest this because he was Israeli or because he supported Zionism or any other factor. you stated this because he was a Jew.
That's simply and clearly racist.

Look at all the racism against the poor Muslims. Look at all the hatred that they are subject to. I think what Bloodbath was trying to say is, the Jewish people aren't saints, and aren't the only victims in this world. I have to say that the Operation Northwood's proposal during the 1960s, is horrific. It's easy to know why so many people like myself, have a lot questions about 9/11. Some people believe that Operation Northwoods = 9/11. I think there is an evil and rotten shadow goverment in America. Look at all the President's since JFK, puppets the lot of them. Finally I think people are becoming more alert at what's going on, we've been asleep for long enough.

King Mob

Conas wrote: »

I think what Bloodbath was trying to say is, the Jewish people aren't saints, and aren't the only victims in this world.

If that's what he is trying to say, he is doing a very poor job of it.

So far it seems he thinks that there may be a valid reason why the Jews are so often hated and persecuted and that Jews are more inclined to be underhanded and devious.

Do you think this is an acceptable stance?
Would you be so forgiving if someone suggested that Muslims are distrusted and persecuted for valid reasons and that Muslims are more prone to violent actions?

Do you agree with the statement:

It's also no surprise that operation Northwoods was drafted by a Jew. Lyman Lemnitzer.

BloodBath

And black people were enslaved and denied rights for hundreds of years. Do you think that there could be an underlying cause for this as well?

I think it's quite obvious. They were uneducated, defenceless and easy targets. Slavery is nothing new and still happens today. That's a completely different subject matter.

So because he is a Jew he is more likely to suggest subversive, sneaky and evil acts?

You didn't state that he would suggest this because he was Israeli or because he supported Zionism or any other factor. You stated this because he was a Jew.
That's simply and clearly racist.

Accusing someone of being something because of their heritage is racism.
Disguising this behind "anti-Zionism" is another common tactic propagated by anti-semites.

Yes exactly. He wasn't Israeli and I have no idea if he was a Zionist hence I called him a Jew. If that makes me racist or an anti semite so be it. I won't lose any sleep over it. Not unless mossad come busting through my door

Do you think it's ok that a very small group of mainly Jewish families control the currency of the world as well as many valuable commodities like diamonds and gold? Have a look at De Beers and their history of artificially inflated prices and total monopolisation of the diamond industry. That isn't capitalism. Some of these families are involved in multiple areas like the Rothschilds. The amount of power this gives them to manipulate markets, currency values and countries is insane.

Reekwind

Conas wrote: »

Give all of us a break will you. The Israeli/Jewish goverment get billions of dollars in foreign aid every single year. They get more than anyone. It's disturbing the amount of influence they have on the American goverment. Their Prime-Minister is one of the most dangerous men in the world. Look at the amount of dead Palestinians he has on his hands. His warmongering against Iran is shocking. He's dying for a war against them, and is doing everything he can to get America involved. He's on about them having Nuclear Weapons, it always makes me laugh, because every one in the world knows Israel has Nuclear Weapons, that their cunningly able to hide, and no one except President Kennedy had the nerve to question them on. If anything Israel could wipe Iran off the face of the earth, with their Nuclear weapons. Just remember the Israeli Prime Minister went to America in 2002, and he said 'there is no question, no question whatsoever that Saddam has weapons of mass destruction'. and he's doesn't have to be held accountable for anything. It's very, very suspicious

And the only bit of that that is remotely "no different to what the Nazi's did" is the caricaturing of the Jewish government. I don't think that's what you were getting at when you stated that the CIA was no different to the Nazis, so try again

But Americans are so brain washed at this stage by the carefully controlled main stream media, they will believe anything.

Such as the belief that the US government is not killing millions via industrial death camps and roving extermination squads? How foolish those Americans are. Like sheep

So many people have been labeled anti-semitic these days, it's scary. Two Irish presidents, Michael D Higgins and Mary Robinson, have been victims of it. Notice the way even today in America if you question the Jews, or question Israel, you get attacked, insulted, you could lose your job, and your reputation is destroyed, like it was with Helen Thomas, and Mel Gibson. It's just so suspiciously strange

Almost as strange as your inability to quantify just how "George W Bush is arguably more evil than Hitler". It's almost as if whenever I question you on these absurd claims you respond with a barrage of anti-Israel irrelevancies

Us Irish Catholics suffered more than the Jews, we were persecuted for 800 years, During the Irish Famine we were left to die through starvation and disease, In the 1798 rebellion when we sought independence, countless people were massacred. Irish people that were injured in hospitals were burnt alive. People were tortured through pitching capping and half hanging. Look at the suffering we've had to endure.

I know that history really isn't your strong suit but this takes the competition for MOPE (Most Oppressed People Ever) to ridiculous extremes. More people were killed at Belsen alone than the supposedly "countless deaths" (in fact: approx 20,000) in the entire 1798 rebellion. The Holocaust claimed the lives of 3-6 more Jews alone (not even including other victims) than the Great Famine. Jews were being driven out of their homes by pogroms in the 11th C and antisemitic discrimination was enshrined in law in most European countries until well into the 19th C

So stow your self-pity and accept the fact that Ireland is not unique in having a harrowing history. Nor does this give us the right to write off the suffering of other peoples

Penn

From the forum charter:

The very nature of a conspiracy theory means that it will be unpalatable to some. Individuals, Corporations, Interest Groups, and collectives of all sorts will inevitably be suspected (and accused) of involvement in any manner of activities.

This thread has gone too far off-topic and I see no reason to believe it can get back on track. Locked.