Can Garda stop you

castle

(mg/100ml)
Breath Limit 22
scored 24

My brother dropped in to local pub at end of his midnight shift and had 2 pints of Guinness ,I got a lift of him and 40 seconds after leaving the pub a police car came from behind us and pulled him over, office asked was he drinking as he could smell alcohol and brother said he had 2 pints after finishing work ,he arrived in pub at 00.05 and was pulled over at 1.07.(brother did not eat since 1pm and feels this had effect) (100 metres from house)
He took test and failed and was brought to ternure station as this is where the main tester is, the reading he produce was 24 limit 22.
He told he will get 3 points and 200 euro fine, Just reading below and it seems Garda can only stop if road traffic offence occurred , It seems the garda where lying in wait and when asked in station they said they where just driving by, any advice see Citizens Information below.
Can a Garda stop me randomly while in traffic and breathalyse me?

No. The Road Traffic Act 2006 does not give the Gardai the power to pull cars over while in traffic and breathalyse the driver randomly. It only gives the Gardai the power to conduct checkpoints for the purpose of random breath testing. If however, the Garda has formed the opinion that you have committed any road traffic offence, or that you have been involved in a road traffic accident, or is of the opinion that you have consumed alcohol then they can stop you in traffic and breathalyse you under the powers given by the Road Traffic Act 2002.

blastit

he arrived in pub at 00.05 and was pulled over at 1.07

is that not after hours? maybe that gives them the right to form opinion?

Paulw

castle wrote: »

The Road Traffic Act 2006 does not give the Gardai the power to pull cars over while in traffic and breathalyse the driver randomly. It only gives the Gardai the power to conduct checkpoints for the purpose of random breath testing. If however, the Garda has formed the opinion that you have committed any road traffic offence, or that you have been involved in a road traffic accident, or is of the opinion that you have consumed alcohol then they can stop you in traffic and breathalyse you under the powers given by the Road Traffic Act 2002.

It obviously wasn't a random stop. It was a targeted stop.

Possibly the Garda observed your brother exit the pub and formed an opinion that he had consumed alcohol. The breath test provied that the opinion was correct.

Nothing wrong with what the Garda did, and fair play to him for following up on someone driving after having consumed more alcohol than permitted in the Road Traffic Act.

Your brother drank alcohol and then drove the car. He will now have to pay the price. Hopefully he will learn his lesson.

ted1

He is very lucky to not be losing his license. To be brutally honest, he is a gob****e for drinking and driving.

You could try challenging it but he should be prepared to lose his license.

Pro Hoc Vice

AGS can stop at a drink during check point and ask for a sample without any evidence of drink.

AGS can stop you at any other check point but only ask for a road side sample if the suspect you are drinking, and can only arrest if they suspect you are intoxicated to such an extent to not have proper control. To be clear AGS can go straight to arrest without road side sample once they form the opinion.

AGS can stop if they believe any offence is been committed, including a intoxicated driving offence. They can give evidence of lights being off, car driving erratically, etc. Once they stop then if they suspect drink, the can do as above.

BTW its useless only looking at 1 Road Traffic Act, there are numerous Acts giving different powers. The 2006 only added random check points but did not remove any other power.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1961/en/act/pub/0024/sec0109.html

the world wonders

castle wrote: »

2 pints of Guinness
...
(brother did not eat since 1pm and feels this had effect)
...
(100 metres from house)

Tell your brother to look into the Ah Sure I'm Grand Act 1999, as amended by the Only Had A Few Act 2004 and the I Can Handle Myself No Bother (Amendment) Act 2005, he should definitely be able to get off.

Del2005

castle wrote: »

(mg/100ml)
Breath Limit 22
scored 24

My brother dropped in to local pub at end of his midnight shift and had 2 pints of Guinness ,I got a lift of him and 40 seconds after leaving the pub a police car came from behind us and pulled him over, office asked was he drinking as he could smell alcohol and brother said he had 2 pints after finishing work ,he arrived in pub at 00.05 and was pulled over at 1.07.(brother did not eat since 1pm and feels this had effect) (100 metres from house)
He took test and failed and was brought to ternure station as this is where the main tester is, the reading he produce was 24 limit 22.
He told he will get 3 points and 200 euro fine, Just reading below and it seems Garda can only stop if road traffic offence occurred , It seems the garda where lying in wait and when asked in station they said they where just driving by, any advice see Citizens Information below.
Can a Garda stop me randomly while in traffic and breathalyse me?

No. The Road Traffic Act 2006 does not give the Gardai the power to pull cars over while in traffic and breathalyse the driver randomly. It only gives the Gardai the power to conduct checkpoints for the purpose of random breath testing. If however, the Garda has formed the opinion that you have committed any road traffic offence, or that you have been involved in a road traffic accident, or is of the opinion that you have consumed alcohol then they can stop you in traffic and breathalyse you under the powers given by the Road Traffic Act 2002.

If the Gardaì saw him leaving the pub they could form the opinion that he was driving intoxicated, that's an offense. The fact he was over the limit proves that they where correct. The fact that they where right outside could be because a concerned citizen reported that your brother was about to DUI.

If you live only a few hundred meters from the pub it's pretty stupid to drive to it. He could have left the car home and walked back. Isn't the limit now less than a pint?

Stonky

castle wrote: »

(mg/100ml)
Breath Limit 22
scored 24

My brother dropped in to local pub at end of his midnight shift and had 2 pints of Guinness ,I got a lift of him and 40 seconds after leaving the pub a police car came from behind us and pulled him over, office asked was he drinking as he could smell alcohol and brother said he had 2 pints after finishing work ,he arrived in pub at 00.05 and was pulled over at 1.07.(brother did not eat since 1pm and feels this had effect) (100 metres from house)
He took test and failed and was brought to ternure station as this is where the main tester is, the reading he produce was 24 limit 22.
He told he will get 3 points and 200 euro fine, Just reading below and it seems Garda can only stop if road traffic offence occurred , It seems the garda where lying in wait and when asked in station they said they where just driving by, any advice see Citizens Information below.
Can a Garda stop me randomly while in traffic and breathalyse me?

No. The Road Traffic Act 2006 does not give the Gardai the power to pull cars over while in traffic and breathalyse the driver randomly. It only gives the Gardai the power to conduct checkpoints for the purpose of random breath testing. If however, the Garda has formed the opinion that you have committed any road traffic offence, or that you have been involved in a road traffic accident, or is of the opinion that you have consumed alcohol then they can stop you in traffic and breathalyse you under the powers given by the Road Traffic Act 2002.

All scum that drink and drive should be put off the road permanently and locked up. I speak as someone who knows people MURDERED by drink driving scum

BRYAN Is Ainm Dom

Sorry but your brother is an Ar$ehole for drink and drive.

Cody Pomeray

Here come the morality police.
Can I finish my drink lads?
The car is warming up outside.

JustAddWater

castle wrote: »

(mg/100ml)
Breath Limit 22
scored 24

I got a lift of him and 40 seconds after leaving the pub a police car came from behind us and pulled him over, ... (brother did not eat since 1pm and feels this had effect) (100 metres from house)

40 seconds in a car and 100m from home? That's probably even walking distance from the pub

There's no excuse for drink driving, and even less in a local bar

I'd be happy with the 'punishment' I got if it were me

trickymicky

the world wonders wrote: »

Tell your brother to look into the Ah Sure I'm Grand Act 1999, as amended by the Only Had A Few Act 2004 and the I Can Handle Myself No Bother (Amendment) Act 2005, he should definitely be able to get off.

Comedic genius

He got away lightly. What a stupid, criminal thing to do, especially so close to home. He should take it on the chin and learn from it. Fair play to the Gardai.

seamus

"Well judge, we spotted the defendant leaving the public house with his passenger, get into his car and begin driving." We drove behind the defendant for a period of approximately two minutes, during which it became apparent from the vehicle drifting sideways in its lane, that the driver was not in full control of the vehicle.

We stopped the vehicle and asked the defendant if he had been drinking, to which he replied he had. I performed a roadside test which displayed a fail, and brought him down to the station to perform a full test. The test carried out in the station indicated that the defendant had 24ug of alcohol per 100ml of breath."

If your brother thinks he can counter that testimony in court, then he should fire away and give it a shot.

seamus

seamus wrote: »

"Well judge, we spotted the defendant leaving the public house with his passenger, get into his car and begin driving." We drove behind the defendant for a period of approximately two minutes, during which it became apparent from the vehicle drifting sideways in its lane, that the driver was not in full control of the vehicle.

We stopped the vehicle and asked the defendant if he had been drinking, to which he replied he had. I performed a roadside test which displayed a fail, and brought him down to the station to perform a full test. The test carried out in the station indicated that the defendant had 24ug of alcohol per 100ml of breath."

If your brother thinks he can counter that testimony in court, then he should fire away and give it a shot.

He'll claim that evidence is false as he was only driving for 40 seconds....

Bepolite

Deleted User wrote: »

He'll claim that evidence is false as he was only driving for 40 seconds....

Judge will weigh up who he believes: Sober guard or drink driver.

Pro Hoc Vice

Deleted User wrote: »

He'll claim that evidence is false as he was only driving for 40 seconds....

40 seconds is plenty of time to observe, form an opinion, and indicate to pull over.

If your brother wishes to challenge the evidence he is more than entitled to. He can refuse the points and fine, he can get a summons for court, he can have a hearing, he can risk a driving ban.

He would be most unwise to challenge without the aid of a solicitor. As has already been pointed out the knowledge of the law is lacking.

Mikros

Deleted User wrote: »

He'll claim that evidence is false as he was only driving for 40 seconds....

It doesn't matter - a Guard can stop a person driving a vehicle in a public place under 109 of the Road Traffic Act - there is no requirement for a reason. The initial stop is unrelated to the breath test.

The power to request a breath test is made under Section 9 of the Road Traffic Act 2010 where a Guard form the opinion the driver has consumed alcohol. The smell of drink from the drivers breath would be sufficient grounds. The resulting fail was then sufficient grounds for an arrest under Section 4 of the same act.

The driver was caught bang to rights and should be happy they are getting off with only a fine.

tayto lover

Was he asked for his PPS number?

cerastes

castle wrote: »

(mg/100ml)
Breath Limit 22
scored 24

My brother dropped in to local pub at end of his midnight shift and had 2 pints of Guinness ,I got a lift of him and 40 seconds after leaving the pub a police car came from behind us and pulled him over, office asked was he drinking as he could smell alcohol and brother said he had 2 pints after finishing work ,he arrived in pub at 00.05 and was pulled over at 1.07.(brother did not eat since 1pm and feels this had effect) (100 metres from house)
He took test and failed and was brought to ternure station as this is where the main tester is, the reading he produce was 24 limit 22.
He told he will get 3 points and 200 euro fine.

Not sure if there are (and I assume there are) different levels above which higher penalties are awarded. In that case, I think he got off lightly enough and should accept it, without giving you the whole critical you shouldnt do it lecture, its simply just not worth it.
The way I look at it, I think what the fine or ban could be and just am prepared to pay someone to give me a lift or get a taxi, its cheaper, less hassle and stress. Having said that, I dont drink anymore really so its easy for me to say and to see how the very odd taxi journey wouldnt add up in cost.

In the past I used to have a pint with a sunday carvery, Id consider Im able for another one but wouldnt if driving, Ive had a second or even third over a longer period and been a passenger and not felt any different, but whether Id pass a breath test or not is another thing, wouldnt chance it, couldnt lose my licence not to mention if anything happened.

Fighting Irish

http://www.iccl.ie/know-your-rights---criminal-justice.html

coylemj

They can pull him over for the purposes of enforcing the RTA i.e. inspect his windscreen discs and ask to see his licence. In the course of the conversation with the driver, if the Garda can smell beer off his breath, he can (obviously) form the opinion that the driver has consumed alcohol in which case he has a legal basis to administer a breath test.

Nothing to do with the rules on random stops, it's bread and butter enforcement under the original rules. The Garda doesn't have to produce evidence that he thought the driver was drunk before he stopped him.

Some years ago a driver with a large wallet who was being prosecuted for drink driving went to the High Court to challenged the law whereby the Gardai could pull over a driver for no obvious reason and ask him questions. Needless to say he lost. If any of the legal eagles have access to a database, I think the incident occurred in Cathedral St. in Dublin 1.

Edit: didn't spot that there was a second page in this thread, I've gone and duplicated what Mikros said above which is 100% correct.

Cody Pomeray

That was Fagan v. DPP, it came up recently in AH in the context of Gardaí stopping cars for welfare-fraud checks

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/garda-checkpoints-to-be-used-to-find-welfare-cheats-1.1563015

Needless to say same principle applies.

billy few mates

He took test and failed and was brought to ternure station as this is where the main tester is,

Was Terenure the nearest station to where you were stopped....?
Is
I might be wrong (it has happened!) but I seem to remember hearing of a case where someone successfully defended a drink driving prosecution on the basis that after failing a roadside breath test they were brought to the station for blood/urine tests but the station they were brought to was not the closest station to where they were stopped and in these cases the legislation states the the accused must be taken to the nearest station etc etc....

brilou23

i may get slated but 2 pints over limit is such a joke i feel for your brother silly mistake but hardly dangerous after 2 pints

Pro Hoc Vice

billy few mates wrote: »

Was Terenure the nearest station to where you were stopped....?
Is
I might be wrong (it has happened!) but I seem to remember hearing of a case where someone successfully defended a drink driving prosecution on the basis that after failing a roadside breath test they were brought to the station for blood/urine tests but the station they were brought to was not the closest station to where they were stopped and in these cases the legislation states the the accused must be taken to the nearest station etc etc....

Depends on the facts. AGS can bring to the next station if they can give evidence that there was good reasons.

castle

Tallaght was the nearest,

After reading the comments we agree that he was lucky not to lose licence, if Garda done all by the rule then he said he will accept but will speak with Garda Sergeant he plays golf with next week just to check all by the book, thanks for replys even though most did not answer the question in the thread, but glad to know the moral brigade is live and well,
folks should really stick to the thread as no one perfect,glass houses and all that come to mind

thanks

billy few mates wrote: »

Was Terenure the nearest station to where you were stopped....?
Is
I might be wrong (it has happened!) but I seem to remember hearing of a case where someone successfully defended a drink driving prosecution on the basis that after failing a roadside breath test they were brought to the station for blood/urine tests but the station they were brought to was not the closest station to where they were stopped and in these cases the legislation states the the accused must be taken to the nearest station etc etc....

Pro Hoc Vice

brilou23 wrote: »

i may get slated but 2 pints over limit is such a joke i feel for your brother silly mistake but hardly dangerous after 2 pints

There are two separate intoxication offences. The less used is offence is to show evidence of intoxication and inability to drive. The second type and more common offence is you are guilty once there is evidence of a certain amount of alcohol in your system. There is no need to show inability to drive. Also the machine is set to give a reading 8% lower than actually recorded.

Call Me Jimmy

the world wonders wrote: »

Tell your brother to look into the Ah Sure I'm Grand Act 1999, as amended by the Only Had A Few Act 2004 and the I Can Handle Myself No Bother (Amendment) Act 2005, he should definitely be able to get off.

ahahahaha

Bepolite

castle wrote: »

Tallaght was the nearest,

After reading the comments we agree that he was lucky not to lose licence, if Garda done all by the rule then he said he will accept but will speak with Garda Sergeant he plays golf with next week just to check all by the book, thanks for replys even though most did not answer the question in the thread, but glad to know the moral brigade is live and well,
folks should really stick to the thread as no one perfect,glass houses and all that come to mind

thanks

So he knows he was in the wrong, but if there's a technicality he'll be happy to exploit it? Why not just be a man about it?

sarabroderick

Man up and stop being a child about it.

mathepac

castle wrote: »

... After reading the comments we agree that he was lucky not to lose licence, ...

He was lucky not to have had an accident and injure or kill someone.

castle wrote: »

... but glad to know the moral brigade is live and well, folks should really stick to the thread as no one perfect ...

You post in a public forum the tendency is for people to give their opinions of the behaviour described in the post. Thankfully that can't be controlled.

Your brother's behaviour on the night in question was stupid beyond describing. Most posters seem to be in perfect agreement on that point.

castle wrote: »

... glass houses and all that come to mind ...

Glasses, public houses and drink driving are what your OP brings to my mind

billy few mates

Whatever about the rights and wrongs of the case everybody is entitled to a defence.....

daithi1970

Bepolite wrote: »

So he knows he was in the wrong, but if there's a technicality he'll be happy to exploit it? Why not just be a man about it?

+1

Paulw

billy few mates wrote: »

Whatever about the rights and wrongs of the case everybody is entitled to a defence.....

Then let him have his day in court. I'm sure the judge would love to give him a chance to make some defence - for knowingly drinking and driving. :eek:

Do come back and let us all know how it goes. :rolleyes:

billy few mates

No need to go to court he's already been tried and sentenced on here.....

patty o chair 55

is there a requirement to wait 20 mins after having consumed alcohol to be breathalised?

(if you say 'im just after finishing a pint...' will they bring you straight to the station, or wait to breathalise you at the side of the road?)

Pro Hoc Vice

patty o chair 55 wrote: »

is there a requirement to wait 20 mins after having consumed alcohol to be breathalised?

(if you say 'im just after finishing a pint...' will they bring you straight to the station, or wait to breathalise you at the side of the road?)

The on the side of the road test, is not an evidential test and so there is no need to wait any amount of time. The station breath test on the other hand there is best practice guidelines to wait 20 minutes and have nill by mouth, and observe for regurgitation or getting sick. There is no statutory requirement to wait the 20 minutes. But it may be doubtful a case would stand if there was no observation.

Frank Black

1986 called OP.
It wants its attitude to drink driving back.

blastit

This poster got a more sympathetic response as did several others I remember reading

Not that I excuse /condone drinking and driving it is just curious how some folk get treated differently

bob50

Oh Dear I feel sorry for the original poster. Yet I read all these sanctimonius posters saying take the punishment I wonder if it was a garda leaving the pub, with drink taken it would be " go ahead" no need to breathalyse

blastit

bob50 wrote: »

Oh Dear I feel sorry for the original poster. Yet I read all these sanctimonius posters saying take the punishment I wonder if it was a garda leaving the pub, with drink taken it would be " go ahead" no need to breathalyse

I have seen that too.

debabyjesus

castle wrote: »

Garda Sergeant he plays golf with

Sarge should sort it for him

debabyjesus

castle wrote: »

Garda Sergeant he plays golf with

Sarge should sort it for him

mickdw

I never drink and drive. In fact I rarely drink but I'm of the opinion that the ops brother is not being fairly treated here. He had a reading below the old drink drive limit which was low in itself. The fact that the law makes the distinction between this very low reading with 3 points and the ban for the higher readings I think speaks for itself.
The original question though is idiotic.

Icepick

They should take your license for drink-driving.

McCrack

People seem to forget that it's legally permissible to have some alcohol and drive.

OPs brother was very very slightly over the min legal threshold.

I can think of worse things tbh.

McCrack

Icepick wrote: »

They should take your license for drink-driving.

Would you believe they do.

endacl

Hold on! Your brother finished a midnight shift and arrived in the pub at 00:05?!?

Where's he working? Sounds handy. I'd love a job where I could be in the pub five minutes after starting work. Unless he was just finishing a 24 hour shift that had started the night before. That would be cr4p.

Sam Kade

If half the whippersnappers on here were around in the 80's they would be shocked beyond belief

ted1

Sam Kade wrote: »

If half the whippersnappers on here were around in the 80's they would be shocked beyond belief

Look at the road deaths now compared to then, evolution . Just cause we use to Neanderthals in the past doesn't mean we should continue to be