Graduate Mechanical Engineer haunted by leaving cert results.

Sarz91

As the title states I'm a graduate mechanical engineer. I completed an internship over the summer and decided to do a masters. Due to lack of funding and parents losing their jobs I had to drop out of the masters program.

I'm currently looking and applying for graduate positions. I managed to get a first class honors in my mechanical engineering degree. However, most jobs that call me back for a phone interview ask for leaving certificate results (I scored very poorly in my leaving cert due to some personal issues around that time). When I tell them what I scored I'm always met with a "we generally look for higher" which is almost always followed by a "thanks for taking the time to apply" etc.

Is this the way it's done? I was under the impression that your GPA in your degree was more important than your leaving certificate results. It's really starting to stress me out.

Sarz91

sugarman wrote: »

:eek: Where the hell have you been applying to?

Since having a B.Eng I have never once been asked about the leaving cert, nevermind the results. Come to think about it, I dont think I've been asked about my GPA either.

I'd rather not name in thread but I can pm you if you really would like to know.

CatFromHue

It's never happened me, actually I'm not even sure if I've ever been asked anything about my LC.

If you've a first class honours degree and they're turning you down 'cos of your LC results forget about them and move on. Their loss!

Newtown90

I agree if they ask for leaving cert results they are looking for excuses!

Never been asked for them in any job applications or interviews before! No point in them!

Sarz91

Thanks guys. I'm not the only one. Most of the guys in my year are facing the same kind of excuses day in day out. Time to start looking more seriously abroad.

Newtown90

Sarz91 wrote: »

Thanks guys. I'm not the only one. Most of the guys in my year are facing the same kind of excuses day in day out. Time to start looking more seriously abroad.

Abroad? Give me a PM of where you have been applying! Since I got my job 2 months ago I've been offered two others since! Loads of jobs out there in the right places!

DJW11

What your experiencing there is my issue with HR doing the recruiting for new employees, especially engineers. Unless they know their stuff and actually have a good relationship with their engineering department they use what you've experienced to cut down the list, if they have a alot applying who all have first class honors degrees, they'll separate them by the last test taken by the people on the list, and that is usually leaving cert. But take it as a blessing and move on, in my experience any company with a HR department that works like that can be horrible to work for.

good luck.

rubberdiddies

DJW11 wrote: »

What your experiencing there is my issue with HR doing the recruiting for new employees, especially engineers.

good luck.

Sounds like this is exactly it.
With your qualification OP, leaving cert results should not even come into it.

Having interviewed people many times for engineering positions, most/all of who had third level qualifications, I have never once checked/verified a persons leaving cert results when they were on a CV.

For all I know they could have been exaggerating the truth

DJW11

In my opinion I think its good if a person has managed to pull themselves up from a bad leaving cert to a high degree award. But either way, the right candidate for any job could actually be the person with a lower degree award, thats the beauty of an engineering office doing their own recruiting, but the,n they wouldn't have the time to sift through loads of applications. I always found it best to go knock on a companies door, and ask to speak to the owner or head engineer.

mawk

That only happened to me once since getting my degree. I just made some up. I genuinely couldn't remember.

But someone else told me that this is now a tacit way of asking if you are "Irish" since the company cannot discriminate on national basis. Do you have an unusual name?
Sounds odd to me cause I work with a very competent very international staff but take what you will.

What kind of work are you looking for?

Pembily

Sarz91 wrote: »

Thanks guys. I'm not the only one. Most of the guys in my year are facing the same kind of excuses day in day out. Time to start looking more seriously abroad.

I had the exact same problem in 2010 when I graduated. I was told by an employee of one company I had the perfect experiece and skills and they were looking for mechanical engineers and then I applied and got rejected based on my LC, it really p!ssed me off as I did my LC in 2002!

A lot of the bigger firms use it as a weeding out tool, but it can be quite ineffective. I don't get the logic.

Best of luck with the job hunt. Don't let the LC thing dishearten you, not all companies look for them and the companies that do aren't necessarily the best.

Seems bizarre. I'd understand if they asked for your maths result but it'd still be odd.

Budawanny

thats just some HR numpty. A real recruiter , a line manager etc, would take a 1st any day. couldnt care less what your leaving is like. its irrelevant.
wouldnt worry, thats just a one or maybe two off bad luck. 1st class honors. awesome. youll be grand.

Starscream25

Slightly off topic, I didn't do engineering myself but was always hoping to get into a post grad, turns out my level 8 degree isn't good enough which took me 4 years, I got an average of 49%, 1% off a 2:2 which I would be considered if I had got it, also went back to repeat my maths and biology this year and got the grades I needed to apply. Just needed to vent a little there.
Any kids out their reading do a good leaving cert and if you go to college get better than a pass result.

Sarz91

mawk wrote: »

That only happened to me once since getting my degree. I just made some up. I genuinely couldn't remember.

But someone else told me that this is now a tacit way of asking if you are "Irish" since the company cannot discriminate on national basis. Do you have an unusual name?
Sounds odd to me cause I work with a very competent very international staff but take what you will.

What kind of work are you looking for?

My name's Irish. It's Sárán. Often confused with Sara, Sarah etc. To be honest I'm looking for anything mechanical related. Design Engineer, Process Engineer anything.

CatFromHue

Sarz91 wrote: »

My name's Irish. It's Sárán. Often confused with Sara, Sarah etc. To be honest I'm looking for anything mechanical related. Design Engineer, Process Engineer anything.

Have you spoken to anyone on the phone about this?

If not ring them and try and put forward how good a 1st degree i.e. out of a class of 50 only 2 or 3 got a 1st.

SHANAbert

I wouldn't worry about the leaving. You have a 1.1 in Mech Eng and that is impressive.

If the leaving Cert results come up I would spin that to your advantage. Helped you realise that you need to work hard for what you want. Was the kick you needed to develop into the person capable of getting a 1.1 in Mech Eng. That kind of thing.

If you can get around to doing a masters you def should. When you get a job (and you will if you keep at it) look to do a part time masters if you can afford the time. Company might even pay it for you. Once you have it nobody can take it away.

dastardly00

I agree with what the others said OP. A company asking for LC results after you getting a 1:1 in mech eng is completely bizarre. I would completely put it down to someone in HR.

Keep your head up and keep applying for jobs. If you can get in contact with any engineer from a company that are hiring, then send them your CV rather than to HR.

Sarz91

SHANAbert wrote: »

I wouldn't worry about the leaving. You have a 1.1 in Mech Eng and that is impressive.

If the leaving Cert results come up I would spin that to your advantage. Helped you realise that you need to work hard for what you want. Was the kick you needed to develop into the person capable of getting a 1.1 in Mech Eng. That kind of thing.

If you can get around to doing a masters you def should. When you get a job (and you will if you keep at it) look to do a part time masters if you can afford the time. Company might even pay it for you. Once you have it nobody can take it away.

I had been doing one but due to both my parents losing their jobs and not getting any sort of grant it just wasn't feasible. I hope to go back and do one as soon as I get the money.

To everyone else in the thread who I haven't responded to, thanks very much for the words of encouragement. It means a lot. Looking/applying for jobs everyday and getting turned away was kind of starting to get to me.

To anyone in the same position as myself. Take this time to learn a language. It's what I've been doing with my time and so far I know basic German. There's a great site called Duolingo and it's completely free.

Thanks again guys.

Shy Ted

I remember applying for a graduate management program 2 years ago and had a similar experience.
Some HR seem to have a set criteria that they work to, or like to coordinate the interview around.
I had 6 years experience in engineering and was in the middle of a post grad with a first.
It was a big company with an excellent program, but they never asked me about my previous experience.
They just focused on my LC which was quite average. I couldn't even remember what it was at the time.

A lot of small companies don't bother advertising for graduate positions, the cost of recruiters can be inhibitive.
I know one person that got a job by ringing up a company and asking to speak with the owner. He just took the initiative and chanced his arm.

Are you looking for positions in a specific part of Ireland or industry (Pharma, medical device, FMCG etc...)?
Would you consider N. Ireland?
The aerospace industry is very big in N. Ireland with Bombardier, BE Aerospace, etc...

Sarz91

RPM7 wrote: »

I remember applying for a graduate management program 2 years ago and had a similar experience.
Some HR seem to have a set criteria that they work to, or like to coordinate the interview around.
I had 6 years experience in engineering and was in the middle of a post grad with a first.
It was a big company with an excellent program, but they never asked me about my previous experience.
They just focused on my LC which was quite average. I couldn't even remember what it was at the time.

A lot of small companies don't bother advertising for graduate positions, the cost of recruiters can be inhibitive.
I know one person that got a job by ringing up a company and asking to speak with the owner. He just took the initiative and chanced his arm.

Are you looking for positions in a specific part of Ireland or industry (Pharma, medical device, FMCG etc...)?
Would you consider N. Ireland?
The aerospace industry is very big in N. Ireland with Bombardier, BE Aerospace, etc...

I'd love to do something in pharma or aerospace. Did my thesis on aerodynamics using cfd. I'm not fussed where in Ireland or outside of Ireland I work. Preferable if I had a choice of working in Ireland somewhere close to Dublin would be a plus but no big deal.

CatFromHue

Keep on eye on the jobs section of CFD-online so

http://www.cfd-online.com/Jobs/listjobs.php

00MARTZ00

Jaysus I hope it's not a regular thing asking for LC results I never did mine and now Im in my last year!

Chet T16

I'm safe enough, i got 120 points in the leaving. Quite the catch for a lucky company!

breadmonkey

I take it from your OP that you don't actually have your Leaving Cert results on your CV? To be honest, that would be very unusual for a graduate and is probably what sets alarm bells ringing.

It probably looks like you're hiding something (which you are in fairness). At least if you leave them on the employer can look and say "OK, not great in the LC but look he got a 1:1 so must be pretty good". By leaving it off you're probably drawing even more attention to it.

Pembily

breadmonkey wrote: »

I take it from your OP that you don't actually have your Leaving Cert results on your CV? To be honest, that would be very unusual for a graduate and is probably what sets alarm bells ringing.

It probably looks like you're hiding something (which you are in fairness). At least if you leave them on the employer can look and say "OK, not great in the LC but look he got a 1:1 so must be pretty good". By leaving it off you're probably drawing even more attention to it.

When I was a graduate I didn't have mine on as they didn't fit due to my work experience, I simply put that I got all honours. I couldn't put the individual grades down and I don't think that you should put them down, it looks messy. Not all graduates did their LC 4 years ago. I really don't see how that is suspicious.

Shy Ted

I would agree with Pembily. You would only be bulking up your CV for the sake of it. I don't think it has any relevance unless you want to emphasise that you have a second language (excluding Irish of course).

Another thing OP, it may be worth joining Engineer's Ireland or IMechE. If you graduated recently you may be entitled to a students membership?
IMechE is British but on a global scale. They are geared for mechanical engineers but they work with EI and they usually organise free events once a month with presentations discussions etc... (And occasionally the complimentary drink afterwards )
Here's a link to them.

Attending events like these build on your CPD, should you wish to go for chartership in the future. It might impress prospective employers mentioning in a cover letter your commitment to CPD etc... (Just an idea)

Nukem

Thats shocking tbh. Never been asked for my LC results, but I have no idea how your LC can reflect on your "professional" qualification as long as you got into the purse and completed.

There loss bud - not easy to get a 1.1 so well done. It will come good for you I hope.

Turbulent Bill

OP, by any chance were any of your non - technical subjects in the LC (English for example) particularly bad? A 1.1 would cover anything technical, but maybe recruiters are concerned that you couldn't communicate your skills properly.

To be honest though, it sounds like you've been very unlucky, so I wouldn't take it to heart.

breadmonkey

Pembily wrote: »

When I was a graduate I didn't have mine on as they didn't fit due to my work experience, I simply put that I got all honours. I couldn't put the individual grades down and I don't think that you should put them down, it looks messy. Not all graduates did their LC 4 years ago. I really don't see how that is suspicious.

I think it's very unusual for a graduate to have so much work experience that they can't take 4 lines of their CV to fit their LC results. I would imagine yours would be an exception? If I was reading that, I would think "got all honours" is evasive and trying to hide the actual results in a slightly less obvious fashion than the OP.

RPM7 wrote: »

I would agree with Pembily. You would only be bulking up your CV for the sake of it. I don't think it has any relevance unless you want to emphasise that you have a second language (excluding Irish of course).)

For a graduate position, how is your LC irrelevant? Like it or not, it's the culmination of 14 years of pre-university education! And studying a language for the LC does not demonstrate that you have a second language that you can use in a professional setting.

Turbulent Bill wrote: »

OP, by any chance were any of your non - technical subjects in the LC (English for example) particularly bad? A 1.1 would cover anything technical, but maybe recruiters are concerned that you couldn't communicate your skills properly.

To be honest though, it sounds like you've been very unlucky, so I wouldn't take it to heart.

This is a good point. I did a three month placement in an engineering firm after my third year in college. At the end they were telling me to give them a call again when I graduated but the first thing the guy asked me was what I got in English in the LC.

2011

breadmonkey wrote: »

I think it's very unusual for a graduate to have so much work experience that they can't take 4 lines of their CV to fit their LC results.

I don't agree.
I feel that an honours degree graduate with a 1.1 has far more important selling points.

If you want your CV to stand out cut out the clutter and cut to the chase.

For a graduate position, how is your LC irrelevant? Like it or not, it's the culmination of 14 years of pre-university education!

Where does it end though? Why not put the junior cert results too and national school while you are at it?

breadmonkey

2011 wrote: »

I don't agree.
I feel that an honours degree graduate with a 1.1 has far more important selling points.

I'm merely suggesting that LC results should compliment the 1.1, not supersede it.

If you want your CV to stand out cut out the clutter and cut to the chase.

A couple of lines in the CV is hardly clutter and LC results could hardly be considered waffle.

Where does it end though? Why not put the junior cert results too and national school while you are at it?

becuase...

breadmonkey wrote:

Like it or not, it's the culmination of 14 years of pre-university education!

kirving

I graduated this year and didn't have too much trouble getting a job. Most of my class have done reasonable well too. I wasn't asked about my LC really at all, except to explain the reason for first doing a level 7 was not doing Honours Maths for the LC.

Don't include full results either, but obviously explain if asked. I just have the following:

Leaving Certificate 2008:
Higher Level: Engineering, Tech Drawing, English, Etc, Etc...
Ordinary Level: Maths, Etc....

I was interviewed by two engineers, and the only thing I was asked about was my final year project. They had very little interest even in my college results, and rightly so I would think. I could go on about block diagram transfer functions all day and get 100% in the exam, but that doesn't mean I know anything about the application of the theory.