Lab pup sleeping outside?

robocode

I know this has been asked quite a bit but since the answer depends on so many variables I wanted to ask for my case. We have a 4 and a half month old male lab. Up until now he has slept in a crate in the utility room, but he's too big for the crate. I'm fine with him staying in the utility in a bed but my girlfriend wants him to sleep outside at night now. We did buy him a lovely kennel, covered the floor in layers of thick, measured cardboard, put a plastic bed in there with plenty of comfy bedding. But, at his age, at this time of year is it going to be too cold for him?

WIZE

Do you mind me asking why you got the Dog. Was it primarily for Security?

robocode

Sorry, that's an important one to have left out. No, we got him as a pet. Now having read plenty of other posts on this topic I know this will illicit a cry from people of "if he's a pet then he's part of the family and shouldn't be outside", to which another group will come back and say "he's a dog, not a child and fine outside". I hope this thread doesn't go that way like so many others because I know it can be subjective.
I guess I'm looking more for details about when his coat, fat etc. will be ample enough to be comfortable outside.

Sadderday

a porcelain hot water bottle like this http://www.flickr.com/photos/28847572@N06/4742888000/in/photostream/ wrapped up in a towel in the kennel will keep the pup warm and cosy. My mother picked up one of these at fairyhouse market for €10 and says she sees them alot at sunday markets - keep an eye out. If your buying one, make sure there is a rubber washer on the screw so it doesnt leak. works like a dream... of course pup might yelp a bit at the start because he wont understand why he is not inside anymore but should quiet down. Did the same with our pup after three months... wont get into the kennell at night without it, perfect for winter.

Obviously... an average hot water bottle dogs could chew through and scald themselves ... you would need a porcelain one... still semi warm in the morning.

WIZE

robocode wrote: »

Sorry, that's an important one to have left out. No, we got him as a pet. Now having read plenty of other posts on this topic I know this will illicit a cry from people of "if he's a pet then he's part of the family and shouldn't be outside", to which another group will come back and say "he's a dog, not a child and fine outside". I hope this thread doesn't go that way like so many others because I know it can be subjective.
I guess I'm looking more for details about when his coat, fat etc. will be ample enough to be comfortable outside.

Well this is the point that you have to decide yourself as the dog owner. What is your dog to you . A family member or a Dog?

Due to it coming into the winter and I would be inclined to say to keep him in until next year.

At 4 1/2 months he is still a pup so again I would say keep him indoors

Also he will have short hair as a Lab so he will feel the cold aie coming into the Kennel no matter how much insolation you put into it .

Thats only my opinion and its your call

Sadderday

once the kennell is sheltered from the wind he should be fine... dogs do adapt to their climate... they lose hair in the summer and grow hair in the winter. if you keep him inside in the heat he may not grow his winter coat. They are animals and are fine outside but it is up to you. feel terrible leaving a dog outside but he should be fine

bluecherry74

Personal preferences aside, I think it's getting far too cold for a puppy to be sleeping outside alone. An adult dog might be ok but a 4/5 month old pup would feel the cold a lot more. I think you should keep him inside, at least for the winter. Perhaps you could sell your crate a buy a bigger one?

name0123

we have a lab cross well 2 but in the case of 1 we know where his brother went. he has a loving home and just would not sleep inside, he sleeps outside and has a coat like a bear now, our lad sleeps inside and he has a 'normal' lab coat

now im all for having the dog inside, I wouldnt even contemplate putting them outside to sleep but in this instance the dogs coat did adapt to the outside, but at 4.5 months and the cold spell coming would your GF not consider keeping him inside till spring so he is that bit older and gets used to being outside in the more mild weather?

muddypaws

I agree with the majority of posters, at his age I think he's too young to be outside over the winter, would a larger crate not fit into your utility room?

He's only a baby and it's getting awful cold

Sadderday

the longer you have a dog in the house the harder it will be to put him outside. I know it seems terrible but you can make him very comfortable outside... it may be too warm for him inside and he struggle to adapt after experiencing your heating on all winter.

Im surprised so many posters believe in keeping a pup inside!

ZiabR

I think he is too young to be outside. What is the issue with him staying inside?

I have a lab too but she is a family member and stays in the kitchen at night. My dogs have always been family member and stay indoors at night.

muddypaws

Sadderday wrote: »

the longer you have a dog in the house the harder it will be to put him outside. I know it seems terrible but you can make him very comfortable outside... it may be too warm for him inside and he struggle to adapt after experiencing your heating on all winter.

Im surprised so many posters believe in keeping a pup inside!

You obviously don't spend much time in this forum then

I have huskies and they sleep inside, most of them on my bed at night.

Sadderday

Sadderday wrote: »

Im surprised so many posters believe in keeping a pup inside!

We keep the adults inside too, they're family

Sadderday

my dog is family too but the OP is looking for advice and a plausible solution to keeping a pup outside is investing in a porcelain water bottle and keeping him sheltered and he will be fine. My own personal thing is that it isn't hygenic to share space with animals no matter how clean so he is kept outside unless of course its snowing etc etc we would have him in the utility room. It's not a bad thing to have him adjusted to the outdoors and looked after... its a choice for the OP. Doesnt mean the dog isnt part of the family or anything.

muddypaws

Sadderday wrote: »

my dog is family too but the OP is looking for advice and a plausible solution to keeping a pup outside is investing in a porcelain water bottle and keeping him sheltered and he will be fine. My own personal thing is that it isn't hygenic to share space with animals no matter how clean so he is kept outside unless of course its snowing etc etc we would have him in the utility room. It's not a bad thing to have him adjusted to the outdoors and looked after... its a choice for the OP. Doesnt mean the dog isnt part of the family or anything.

So your dog never goes inside your house?

I'd be concerned with putting a porcelain hot water bottle with a lab pup, a breed well known for their chewing

Sadderday

muddypaws wrote: »

So your dog never goes inside your house?

I'd be concerned with putting a porcelain hot water bottle with a lab pup, a breed well known for their chewing

Not really no, unless its way in the minus weather we dont feel like we are doing any harm. A porcelain hot water bottle is near impossible to chew through, we wouldnt for example throw in a water bottle from dunnes or pennys. Find pic in previous post. Its an option anyway for the OP at least you know that your dog has a source of warmth.

muddypaws

Sadderday wrote: »

Not really no, unless its way in the minus weather we dont feel like we are doing any harm. A porcelain hot water bottle is near impossible to chew through, we wouldnt for example throw in a water bottle from dunnes or pennys. Find pic in previous post. Its an option anyway for the OP at least you know that your dog has a source of warmth.

But it has a screw in lid? dunno, I would just be very cautious putting anything with boiling water anywhere near a dog. I've used the animal specific heating pads that you put in the microwave, of course they could also be chewed, but at least there isn't boiling water inside.

Sorry, the OP said they didn't want this to descend into a thread about whether a dog is part of the family or not, but I can't see how, if your dog never spends time with you in the house during the day or night, they are part of the family? Now that's your choice of course, but you said that your dog is family too.

OP, I'm actually not against dogs sleeping outside, if they get plenty of interaction with the family during the day, but I do think that a pup that young would do better inside at night during the winter.

meoklmrk91

Different strokes for different folks but I personally hate to see any dog left to sleep outside at this time of year. I personally think they get a better nights sleep inside, they aren't woken by every little noise, they are warm, and they aren't annoying anyone by barking. Of course there are exceptions, some dogs really just prefer to stay outdoors, but I couldn't imagine how my fella would deal with it, he has never spent a night outside as long as I have had him, 3 years, he sleeps on his bed which is on my bedroom floor.

Sadderday

muddypaws wrote: »

But it has a screw in lid? dunno, I would just be very cautious putting anything with boiling water anywhere near a dog. I've used the animal specific heating pads that you put in the microwave, of course they could also be chewed, but at least there isn't boiling water inside.

Sorry, the OP said they didn't want this to descend into a thread about whether a dog is part of the family or not, but I can't see how, if your dog never spends time with you in the house during the day or night, they are part of the family? Now that's your choice of course, but you said that your dog is family too.

OP, I'm actually not against dogs sleeping outside, if they get plenty of interaction with the family during the day, but I do think that a pup that young would do better inside at night during the winter.

he is walked twice a day and has Plenty of interaction with the family. Understanding your preference to have a dog inside... just simply offering advice that may be valuable to the OP. This shouldn't be an indicator of how much you love your dog thats kinda silly. These water bottles are secure enough for humans therefore; animals also... too heavy for a pup to move and wrapped up in a towel or blanket. It would mimic the warmth experienced when sleeping with a litter. we think is perfect for our pup, you may not for yours but hope all goes well.

yellowlabrador

Do you have a run with the kennel? I'd acclimatize him first. Ideally I would start him sleeping outside in the Summer months, but it's still quite mild. I'd start getting him used to the kennel and have a run to go with it. A few hours a day would do otherwise he might cry and cause mischief.We have dogs both inside and out. The pet inside and the working dogs outside and like my username implies, all labradors. When they are old and replaced by a younger dog, they move inside for their retirement. We also keep the pup inside till about 8 months.
This is for basic training and bonding.
The pup also has company when she moves into the kennel which helps

sparxx89

How long would one keep a dog outside at this time of year? My 10 month springer sleeps indoors & has someone with her all day but obviously there'll be times where she has to be left alone & she gets really destructive if left inside.

robocode

Thanks to everyone for chipping in, great to get your perspectives!

ShaShaBear

If the little one is crate trained, I'd recommend a bigger crate. Crate training is a positive step forward for life, and he may not re-adjust to sleeping in one if your circumstances change and he ends up having to sleep inside again. And then you have situations like with any surgeries or illnesses - if you have to keep him inside to rehabilitate, chances are he won't want to go outside much. And unless your garden is 100000000% secure, you also have the possibility of someone hopping in and stealing a lab puppy that's excited to see someone so late at night.

c-note

I've a 4month old lab cross,
He's been sleeping outside in a kennel since I got him 2 weeks ago,
and doing great.
the kennel is insulated and has a separate hallway and sleeping area with transparent rubber flap separating the two so there is not draft issues, I've put cut carpet on the floor on the sleeping area, he has a large plastic basket bed, with carpet on the floor of that and a few old t-shirts and jumpers for blankets.
If it's really harsh (below zero) I might take him into the back hall temporarily.

My last dog was a golden retriever, she live to 15 years old and never spent a night indoors, even in the freezing winter of '10 and '11, she had a good coat on her.
The dog before that was a lab mix, always slept outside, but was hit by a car when he was 7 or 8.

Most dogs are hardier than people realise.

Knine

c-note wrote: »

I've a 4month old lab cross,
He's been sleeping outside in a kennel since I got him 2 weeks ago,
and doing great.
the kennel is insulated and has a separate hallway and sleeping area with transparent rubber flap separating the two so there is not draft issues, I've put cut carpet on the floor on the sleeping area, he has a large plastic basket bed, with carpet on the floor of that and a few old t-shirts and jumpers for blankets.
If it's really harsh (below zero) I might take him into the back hall temporarily.

My last dog was a golden retriever, she live to 15 years old and never spent a night indoors, even in the freezing winter of '10 and '11, she had a good coat on her.
The dog before that was a lab mix, always slept outside, but was hit by a car when he was 7 or 8.

Most dogs are hardier than people realise.

I would not leave carpet with a dog. It is not suitable for dogs that you are not supervising. One of our dogs choked on a piece of carpet. Found him dead. Only 15 months old. A PM Showed he had choked on the carpet.

I only use indestructible bedding now.

c-note

Good point Knine,
He has been chewing on the carpet a bit, I might just swap it out for a rubber mat. Thanks

ZiabR

Knine wrote: »

I would not leave carpet with a dog. It is not suitable for dogs that you are not supervising. One of our dogs choked on a piece of carpet. Found him dead. Only 15 months old. A PM Showed he had choked on the carpet.

I only use indestructible bedding now.

Thats awful but can happen easily alright! Pups will try anything when they are teething.

Lemlin

To be honest I don't see any huge problem with a dog sleeping outside, even in Winter. Growing up we had various breeds of dog and none slept inside. They never had any health issues. I also have various friends and know people who have dogs that sleep outside 365 days a year with no issue.

My own Labrador sleeps inside most of the time, particularly during the Winter. That said, we have rehomed a Norwegian Elkhound that chooses to sleep outside, even in the worst of weather. If we try to leave her inside for the night she isn't happy at all.

I can only imagine its because our house has underfloor heating so can get warm and I think the heat gets too much for her with her coat. She prefers to sleep on the porch at the front door. It could also be because she's just used to sleeping outside from her previous home.

I would add however that I live in the country and the nearest house is 5 minutes walk away so there's no immediate danger to the dogs being outside. I can see how people living in estates and towns might see it differently.

SingItOut

c-note wrote: »

Good point Knine,
He has been chewing on the carpet a bit, I might just swap it out for a rubber mat. Thanks

Vet bed is probably the most indestructible safe mat you get can , it's insulating and great for their growing joints. I had one for my 6 year old lab and try as he could he could never destroy it

OP, as for leaving the puppy outside I wouldn't in this weather as it is far too cold no matter how many blankets you have. When it reaches spring time it would be safer for him, my lab never liked sleeping inside even as a puppy

Knine

SingItOut wrote: »

Vet bed is probably the most indestructible safe mat you get can , it's insulating and great for their growing joints. I had one for my 6 year old lab and try as he could he could never destroy it

OP, as for leaving the puppy outside I wouldn't in this weather as it is far too cold no matter how many blankets you have. When it reaches spring time it would be safer for him, my lab never liked sleeping inside even as a puppy

My terriers dig the backing off the vet bed. Drives me mad cleaning up all the little bits. Still love it though. It drys so quickly.

The_Pretender

We got our pup when he was only 6 weeks old, he's slept outside in a closed garden shed pretty much since then. Evenutally when he was big enough to make sure he'd be fine we left him out in a stable with our old female lab. They're both fine sleeping in the stable in their own beds.

andreac

The_Pretender wrote: »

We got our pup when he was only 6 weeks old, he's slept outside in a closed garden shed pretty much since then. Evenutally when he was big enough to make sure he'd be fine we left him out in a stable with our old female lab. They're both fine sleeping in the stable in their own beds.

How come you got your pup at 6 weeks?

borderlinemeath

The_Pretender wrote: »

We got our pup when he was only 6 weeks old, he's slept outside in a closed garden shed pretty much since then. Evenutally when he was big enough to make sure he'd be fine we left him out in a stable with our old female lab. They're both fine sleeping in the stable in their own beds.

Not having a go, but a pup shouldn't be away from their mother and siblings until at least 8 weeks old. The amount of learning and experience in the time they spend with their mother and siblings is a crucial developmental curve for the pup and will stand to him for the rest of his life. And certainly a pup that young, that has been taken early from it's mother should not be sleeping out in a shed alone, any time of year.

Lemlin

andreac wrote: »

How come you got your pup at 6 weeks?

It goes on more than you'd imagine. I rang a seller in NI a few days ago re a Labrador pup for a friend. The pups were only six weeks and two people were collecting their pups that evening I was told.

I asked when could I collect a pup if I bought one and was told to come on down and collect, the pups were ready to go.

That was enough for me to say good luck.

In fairness, I don't think you can blame the buyer either. I recently sold a litter of pups myself and alot of new owners rely on the breeder for guidance. I don't see why people rush letting the pups go other than saving on costs. I had all my pups sold from when they were between three and five weeks and the new owners had no problem waiting once I explained the reasoning behind it.

The_Pretender

andreac wrote: »

How come you got your pup at 6 weeks?

borderlinemeath wrote: »

Not having a go, but a pup shouldn't be away from their mother and siblings until at least 8 weeks old. The amount of learning and experience in the time they spend with their mother and siblings is a crucial developmental curve for the pup and will stand to him for the rest of his life. And certainly a pup that young, that has been taken early from it's mother should not be sleeping out in a shed alone, any time of year.

Yeah I know, it was very young to be separated. It was actually our neighbour who had gotten the puppy, but after the first day or two his wife couldn't get over the puppy crying all night, don't think she realised that it's expected with it basically being a baby brought into new surroundings. :eek:

He told us he got the pup cheap because apparently it was rejected by its mother. It was also supposed to be a pure bred black lab, but since growing up it's obvious it's mixed with something else. Anyway, he offered him to us since we've got plenty of our own dogs and the space for him.

I agree that dogs are part of the family, and when I eventually get my own place I'd like to have my own dogs who can sleep inside at night. In some circumstances I don't feel that it is necessary for dogs to be kept in at night though. If you have multiple dogs i.e 3+ and sheltered sleeping areas for them outside then there isn't really any problem. Especially if they are big dogs.

andreac

I have 3 Rottweilers now and all will sleep indoors. I couldn't imagine leaving any dogs outside when weather is cold and wet.

borderlinemeath

The_Pretender wrote: »

I agree that dogs are part of the family, and when I eventually get my own place I'd like to have my own dogs who can sleep inside at night. In some circumstances I don't feel that it is necessary for dogs to be kept in at night though. If you have multiple dogs i.e 3+ and sheltered sleeping areas for them outside then there isn't really any problem. Especially if they are big dogs.

I don't think numbers come into it at all. Just because they have companions doesn't mean they fare any better outside, particularly if they are a breed with a fine coat.

I have no problem with dogs that sleep outside IF they get constant stimulation and company from their human companions for most of the day (ie farm dogs, working dogs) but for a dog or dogs that spend all day in a garden while their owner is at work, and maybe get a few hours inside only to be turned back out when their humans go to bed just doesn't give the dog much of a quality of life.

DBB

This argument comes up again and again. I think it's fairly obvious that some breeds, and some individuals, are physically hardier than others, and do not suffer if they live outside.
That's fine... I'll accept that this is true.
But what is always, always glossed over is the dog's mental health. Most dogs do not do well, psychologically, when left on their own for long periods outside. Indeed, having other dogs may help, but for many dogs, it's human attention they really want. They have been deliberately bred for thousands of years now to bond with, and look to humans for emotional support.
And if they live outside, they just don't get enough of that, unless they are working dogs, and by that I mean working 365 days of the year, for a lot of the day.
It doesn't matter what size the dog is... Big dogs need lots of social interaction too, so this business of saying it's okay for big dogs to be consigned to a lonely life outside just does not wash.
I know there are exceptions where dogs prefer to be outside due to their own life experiences, but these dogs are very much the exception.
I deal with problem behaviours in dogs, and without any shadow of a doubt, dogs that are kept alone feature very, very high on the types of cases I see. It's always the same with them: they develop serious attention-seeking +/or attention-grabbing, +/or destructive, +/or territorial, +/or desperate behaviours, to some extent or another.
Dogs need social contact, and lots of it. This is non-negotiable.

The_Pretender

borderlinemeath wrote: »

I don't think numbers come into it at all. Just because they have companions doesn't mean they fare any better outside, particularly if they are a breed with a fine coat.

I have no problem with dogs that sleep outside IF they get constant stimulation and company from their human companions for most of the day (ie farm dogs, working dogs) but for a dog or dogs that spend all day in a garden while their owner is at work, and maybe get a few hours inside only to be turned back out when their humans go to bed just doesn't give the dog much of a quality of life.

I agree with you. Our dogs get a good bit of attention, but like a lot of dog owners, they are often left to their own devices for a large part of the day while I'm away at college, parents at work etc. I believe it really depends on the situation. I honestly think my dogs are just as happy having access to at least an acre of field 24/7 along with the option of going into a stable with their own kennels with bedding whenever they like as dogs that would be kept inside all day and then brought for walks when their owners come home. Like I said though, it really depends on each individuals situation.

angelfire9

My parents JRT (I think I've posted about him here before) he lives in an insulated dog house beside the boiler in the shed
When the weather got REALLY cold my parents tried to get him to sleep indoors but he wasn't having it he scratched his way out the utility room door
My parents changed the back door of the house from a PVC one to a wooden one in order to get a dog flap and the little fecker still goes out as soon as night falls
He will sleep indoors by day but then again he's a bloody loopy dog

dealornodeal23

ah the poor little thing please keep him indoors treat him as one of the family remember he was taken away from his mother and maybe siblings he will need lots of love and cuddles I have 2 dogs and a cat they live indoors with my husband myself and our 3 little children BLISS!!!

ZiabR

Always kept mine indoors at night too, part of the family. Couldnt leave them outside at night, they do NO harm leaving them indoors at night.

dees99

You kept him inside for the warm months and now you re kicking him out for the cold months, including Halloween night I presume? What's the issue with your girlfriend leaving him where he was? Is she bored of him already? Jeez!!

dees99

Stand up for yourself man, its your dog and your house too! Don't be so mean to the animal!!