Warning triangle on motorway

CiniO

I had a quick look recently on RSA "Motorway driving leaflet", and I must admit this point surprised me greatly

What to do if your vehicle breaks down?
(...)
Do not place any warning device such as a triangle on the motorway
as it is too dangerous.

For the last 14 years I've been driving, this was strongly in my head that putting warning triangle far behind a car is a must.
I knew in Ireland it couldn't be a must, as cars are not required to be equipped with warning triangles. But I would never think it was discouraged.

All over Continent of Europe, putting a triangle on motorway once you have a break down is a must. Most countries require it to be at about 100metres behind a broken vehicle.
I'm finding it astonishing, that in Ireland it's discouraged (because of safety), while in other countries it's required (because of safety).


What do you think?

djimi

In Ireland we are told that if your car breaks down on a motorway then you get yourself to safety behind the barrier as quickly as possible. Fannying around 100m behind the car in the hard shoulder is not exactly safe.

As you yourself have pointed out previously, on a motorway you should be able to see a car in the hard shoulder several hundred meters in advance anyway; is a little piece of plastic on the road really going to make much difference?

ardle1

Strange, surely it means position triangle in hard shoulder and not on traffic lanes!!

Stheno

ardle1 wrote: »

Strange, surely it means position triangle in hard shoulder and not on traffic lanes!!

I read it as that too, that if you are putting a warning triangle out, don't put it on the road but on the hard shoulder where you have pulled in

djimi

You would hope that something like that wouldnt be required to be put in a leaflet (that people would have common sense enough not to put objects on the driving lane of a motorway) but I guess with the state of some of our motorists you never know!

corktina

best advice is to pull car as far left as you can, get out of it and get away from the road as best you can. Walking back with a triangle is foolishness.

CiniO

OSI wrote: »

a) I think you spend a ridiculous amount of time looking for elements of Irish driving to ridicule.

When I was last time in motor tax office taxing my car, I just took the leaflet about motorway driving, and had a look at it today. That's it. I wasn't looking for anything in particular.

b) A large loose object on the side of road with cars doing 120km/h seems pretty stupid to me.

I still tend to think, that it's better if car will hit largo loose object like warning triangle, than a broken down car.
Have a think - if someone can't see a warning triangle in time and hits it, he would hit the car as well if triangle wasn't there.

CiniO

ardle1 wrote: »

Strange, surely it means position triangle in hard shoulder and not on traffic lanes!!

That's obvious that both (broken car and warning triangle) should be on hard shoulder. But anyway - they mean no to put it down at all.

Stheno

CiniO wrote: »

When I was last time in motor tax office taxing my car, I just took the leaflet about motorway driving, and had a look at it today. That's it. I wasn't looking for anything in particular.


I still tend to think, that it's better if car will hit largo loose object like warning triangle, than a broken down car.
Have a think - if someone can't see a warning triangle in time and hits it, he would hit the car as well if triangle wasn't there.

What would the car that would hit it be doing driving on the hard shoulder? That's illegal and incurs penalty points.

CiniO

corktina wrote: »

best advice is to pull car as far left as you can, get out of it and get away from the road as best you can. Walking back with a triangle is foolishness.

So why is it requirement in most countries in Europe? You think they are all foolish?

CiniO

Stheno wrote: »

What would the car that would hit it be doing driving on the hard shoulder? That's illegal and incurs penalty points.

Of course.
But better safe then sorry. Better for someone to hit the triangle than a car.

Stheno

CiniO wrote: »

Of course.
But better safe then sorry. Better for someone to hit the triangle than a car.

To be honest at motorway speeds, the stopping distance would negate any benefit of the triangle being hit first, and probably would turn it into a lethal frisbee type weapon which would no doubt injure someone or cause additional harm

CiniO

Stheno wrote: »

To be honest at motorway speeds, the stopping distance would negate any benefit of the triangle being hit first, and probably would turn it into a lethal frisbee type weapon which would no doubt injure someone or cause additional harm

No should really hit a warning triangle.
If someone does, he would the same likely hit a car which was broken down if triangle wasn't there. Out of those two, surely hitting a triangle is better and safer.

But that's not that relevant anyway.
Putting a warning triangle behind a car is to warn other drivers that there is a broken down car.
Surely it's better if it's there than not.

eringobragh

Personal experience with this I stuck a triangle behind the mrs car in the hard shoulder of m50- 2 trucks pass and the side wind just blew it in the air towards the barrier

ardle1

CiniO wrote: »

That's obvious that both (broken car and warning triangle) should be on hard shoulder. But anyway - they mean no to put it down at all.

Well there you go every day's a school day, it would be no harm if your battery was flat (no hazards)and it wasn't too windy I suppose............

power pants

Stheno wrote: »

To be honest at motorway speeds, the stopping distance would negate any benefit of the triangle being hit first, and probably would turn it into a lethal frisbee type weapon which would no doubt injure someone or cause additional harm

Im not sure this has ever happened any of the other EU countries??

mb1725

Problem solved!

Stheno

power pants wrote: »

Im not sure this has ever happened any of the other EU countries??

Dunno tbh.

Has anyone ever seen one being used here?

CiniO

OK so what in case if someone breaks down on driving or overtaking lane of motorway and is unable to move vehicle to hard shoulder.
You think that warning triangle is not needed then as well?

SV

Stheno wrote: »

Dunno tbh.

Has anyone ever seen one being used here?

Seen one before on the motorway and it was put about 200metres behind the broken down car which was also on a continuous bend.
In that case it was very useful as I was given time to expect a broken down car and move into the overtaking lane if neccesary.

djimi

CiniO wrote: »

But that's not that relevant anyway.
Putting a warning triangle behind a car is to warn other drivers that there is a broken down car.
Surely it's better if it's there than not.

Whats better is someone not walking down the hard shoulder of a motorway.

Stheno

CiniO wrote: »

OK so what in case if someone breaks down on driving or overtaking lane of motorway and is unable to move vehicle to hard shoulder.
You think that warning triangle is not needed then as well?

There is no way in this wide earthly world that you would get me to walk 100 metres up the driving/overtaking lane of a motorway to put out a warning triangle, if my car suddenly went completely and couldn't be moved, then I'd stay put and switch on the hazards. It cannot be safe to think people would walk up that lane.

unkel

mb1725 wrote: »

Problem solved!

I've wondered for decades why it is only Mercedes that uses the triangle like that. Has always seemed a good solution to me!

CiniO

djimi wrote: »

Whats better is someone not walking down the hard shoulder of a motorway.

Why?
As mentioned before it's hard shoulder, so no one should be driving there.
If you are concerned about safety of person walking, so what about safety of person who might hit a car broken down on motorway?

mb1725

unkel wrote: »

I've wondered for decades why it is only Mercedes that uses the triangle like that. Has always seemed a good solution to me!

Saves you having to walk back up the road to collect it too.

CiniO

Stheno wrote: »

There is no way in this wide earthly world that you would get me to walk 100 metres up the driving/overtaking lane of a motorway to put out a warning triangle, if my car suddenly went completely and couldn't be moved, then I'd stay put and switch on the hazards. It cannot be safe to think people would walk up that lane.

Not walk up the lane. You could walk on hard shoulder or even outside the barriers, but triangle should be put on the same lane as broken vehicle is, but fair distance behind (f.e. 100metres).
Surely it's safer if motorists can see the warning triangle before they reach the broken vehicle.

djimi

CiniO wrote: »

Why?
As mentioned before it's hard shoulder, so no one should be driving there.
If you are concerned about safety of person walking, so what about safety of person who might hit a car broken down on motorway?

If noone should be driving in it then why would you need a triangle at all?

Which do you think is more likely to happen; a car hitting a stationary car on/on the side of a motorway, or someone hitting a pedestrian who is walking 100m behind a stationary car that is on/on the side of the motorway?

Stheno

unkel wrote: »

I've wondered for decades why it is only Mercedes that uses the triangle like that. Has always seemed a good solution to me!

Is it only specific mercs that have that setup?

magicman88

I broke down on the motorway once put on hazards and stood behind barrier traffic corps pulle up and asked how come I didn't have triangle out

CiniO

djimi wrote: »

If noone should be driving in it then why would you need a triangle at all?

Which do you think is more likely to happen; a car hitting a stationary car on/on the side of a motorway, or someone hitting a pedestrian who is walking 100m behind a stationary car that is on/on the side of the motorway?

I'd say more likely is hitting a car then pedestrian.
If you walk down the motorway to put the triangle, you can actually walk between hard shoulder and barrier, or even walk behind a barrier.

Del2005

Search for "warning triangle on motorway" and several UK sites, RAC and AA, advise not using them. It's just plain silly to walk on a motorway and then it's even more dangerous to pick it up with drivers looking at the warning beacons on the recovery vehicles.

Stheno

CiniO wrote: »

I'd say more likely is hitting a car then pedestrian.
If you walk down the motorway to put the triangle, you can actually walk between hard shoulder and barrier, or even walk behind a barrier.

I'm just thinking of the M50 and M1 which would be the motorways I use most, and I don't think they have any barriers apart from in the middle of the road.

Can someone correct me?

And if e.g. you broke down in the middle lane of either of those, how would you get to the hard shoulder? It's bad enough playing chicken with other cars on the M1 at the airport in the evenings when you've cars manouvering across four lanes.

CiniO

Del2005 wrote: »

Search for "warning triangle on motorway" and several UK sites, RAC and AA, advise not using them. It's just plain silly to walk on a motorway and then it's even more dangerous to pick it up with drivers looking at the warning beacons on the recovery vehicles.

France:

All vehicles must carry a red reflective warning triangle. This must be displayed 30 metres from the vehicle in case of a break-down or accident except on a motorway where the triangle must be displayed at a reasonable and safe distance from the broken-down vehicle.

Germany:

In the event of a breakdown the warning hazard lights should be switched on and a warning triangle has to be positioned in sufficient distance, on a motorway at least 100m behind the vehicle. If the vehicle is carrying disabled passengers a triangle must be placed 200m behind the vehicle on the Autobahn.

http://www.aph.com/news/knowbeforeyougo/driving_abroad.shtml

Walking on motorway is not the safest thing to do, but leaving broken down car without any signage ahead, is even worse.

CiniO

OSI wrote: »

Plenty of stories of people getting killed while putting out warning triangles to.

Any example?

Supergurrier

I will get right onto Enda for ya next time i pass him on Croagh Patrick

keithclancy

CiniO wrote: »

I had a quick look recently on RSA "Motorway driving leaflet", and I must admit this point surprised me greatly



For the last 14 years I've been driving, this was strongly in my head that putting warning triangle far behind a car is a must.
I knew in Ireland it couldn't be a must, as cars are not required to be equipped with warning triangles. But I would never think it was discouraged.

All over Continent of Europe, putting a triangle on motorway once you have a break down is a must. Most countries require it to be at about 100metres behind a broken vehicle.
I'm finding it astonishing, that in Ireland it's discouraged (because of safety), while in other countries it's required (because of safety).


What do you think?

Not anymore, they are changing the Rules of the Road to match also (I queried them about it a few months back.

Same in the UK:

https://www.gov.uk/breakdowns-and-incidents-274-to-287/breakdowns-274

put a warning triangle on the road at least 45 metres (147 feet) behind your broken-down vehicle on the same side of the road, or use other permitted warning devices if you have them. Always take great care when placing or retrieving them, but never use them on motorways

Netherlands its not compulsory (Varying advice, basically do it if possible and safe, make yourself and the car as visible as possible (hi vis vest + hazards)

Germany is compulsory and a fine is given if its not done (AFAIK at least 100 meters for fast roads and you need a hi vis vest also)

Different rules different countries.

FFS having to carry your own breathalyzer is France is crazy.

unkel

mb1725 wrote: »

Saves you having to walk back up the road to collect it too.

Not just that, it is high up as well (enhances visibility) and most importantly, it is actually right where the car is. And not 10, 50, maybe 300m behind it, who knows where people place triangles (if at all)

Obvious drawback is the weather and the contents of the boot wouldn't be secure

Stheno

The RSA actually advise never to walk on the motorway for any reason too

The UK highway code also states never to put a warning triangle out on a motorway.

CiniO

keithclancy wrote: »

Not anymore, they are changing the Rules of the Road to match also (I queried them about it a few months back.

Same in the UK:

https://www.gov.uk/breakdowns-and-incidents-274-to-287/breakdowns-274



Netherlands its not compulsory (Varying advice, basically do it if possible and safe, make yourself and the car as visible as possible (hi vis vest + hazards)

Germany is compulsory and a fine is given if its not done (AFAIK at least 100 meters for fast roads and you need a hi vis vest also)

Different rules different countries.

So we have few camps here.
UK and Ireland - don't use triangles on motorway.
Netherland - neutral.
Germany, France, Poland - using warning triangle on motorway obvligatory.

FFS having to carry your own breathalyzer is France is crazy.

But fine for not having one is small, so I don't bother carrying one. Chance of being caught is too small to make it worth.

CiniO

Stheno wrote: »

The RSA actually advise never to walk on the motorway for any reason too

The UK highway code also states never to put a warning triangle out on a motorway.

But if I do - and put a warning triangle, I'm not breaking any law here, am I?

Stheno

CiniO wrote: »

But if I do - and put a warning triangle, I'm not breaking any law here, am I?

No it's just advice from the RSA

Mycroft H

If I'm broke down the only place I'm going is the other place of the crash barrier and further away....

CiniO

BX 19 wrote: »

If I'm broke down the only place I'm going is the other place of the crash barrier and further away....

And you don't care that someone might crash into your broken vehicle and die?

Supergurrier

CiniO wrote: »

And you don't care that someone might crash into your broken vehicle and die?

Hazards

CiniO

Supergurrier wrote: »

Hazards

What if hazards are not enough? F.e. during bad weather or fog?

Supergurrier

Then people should drive to suit the conditions, the hard shoulder is for emergency vehicles anyway and people shouldn't be on it, if you cant see hazards then you won't see a warning triangle and your won't see the poor sod trying to make his/her way in this thick fog you mention.

Common sense.

If everyone had some as standard we wouldn't have any need for advisory authorities/laws etc

Mycroft H

CiniO wrote: »

And you don't care that someone might crash into your broken vehicle and die?

My safety comes first. I'm not dying over someone's stupidity.

The vehicle will be as far to the left as I can manage, but I'll be out of it.

Stheno

Supergurrier wrote: »

Then people should drive to suit the conditions, the hard shoulder is for emergency vehicles anyway and people shouldn't be on it, if you cant see hazards then you won't see a warning triangle and your won't see the poor sod trying to make his/her way in this thick fog you mention.

Common sense.

If everyone had some as standard we wouldn't have any need for advisory authorities/laws etc

Yeah a few years ago I got caught up in the pile up on the M7 due to fog and was well able to see the hazards up ahead and the fog was thick as soup

HeidiHeidi

BX 19 wrote: »

My safety comes first. I'm not dying over someone's stupidity.

The vehicle will be as far to the left as I can manage, but I'll be out of it.

Have to say this would be my instinct as well - correct/legal or not.

Supergurrier

Stheno wrote: »

Yeah a few years ago I got caught up in the pile up on the M7 due to fog and was well able to see the hazards up ahead and the fog was thick as soup

Hey.

Maybe it's possible you won't.

Main point is that you won't see the triangle anyway before the hazards and it's only putting yourself in danger.

Mycroft H

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

Have to say this would be my instinct as well - correct/legal or not.

Call it selfish or whatever, 1 casualty is better than 2 (ie me).

I'll take all reasonable precautions like calling a recovery vehicle or na Gardai but I'm not staying in a vehicle. Motorways are incredibly dangerous places for a stationary vehicle.