When did 1 - 800 phone numbers arrive here?

LordSutch

I only ask because 1 - 800 numbers are normally found in the United States.

Curious.

Xantia

1800 numbers are found in many countries.
The ones in Ireland are 1800 xxxxxx (6 digit)
The ones in North America are 1800 xxxxxxx (7 digit)
They bear no relationship to one another.
Most countries use either 1800 or 0800 to provide freephone services.
Those services are by nature internal to that phone market

LordSutch

Many thanks Xantia, however, I should point out that I refering to 1 - 800 numbers, and not 'eighteen' hundred numbers, which have been here for many years! Its a subtle difference alright, but as far as I am aware an 1800 number is not the same as a 1 - 800 number. What say you?

Mr. G

I'm confused. What's your question?!

Xantia

The perceived difference is because the leading 1 in the North America numbering plan might not need to be dialled in all circumstances.
More info Here
The 800 code was an actual area code.
Toll-free numbers in the North American Numbering Plan (NANP) are commonly called "800 numbers" after the original area code which was used to dial them.

LordSutch

Mr. G wrote: »

I'm confused. What's your question?!

When did 1 - 800 numbers arrive here in Ireland?

1800 (eighteen hundred) numbers have been here for many years, but in recent times I see & hear more and more reference to 1 - 800 numbers. Same applies to eighteen fifty numbers, which have now become 1 - 850 numbers, or eighteen ninety numbers which are now 1 - 890 numbers.

I am curious as to when the prefix was changed to the digit one (1).

FSL

There is no prefix there is no location in Ireland where you can dial 800... 850... or 890..... without the 1.

Whether you refer to the number as 1-8xx-nnnnnn or 18xxnnnnnn or 18x-xnn-nnnn or any other combination of the digits interspersed with '-'s is irrelevant.

LordSutch

I was actually working in Eircom when the "eighteen hunded" numbers were introduced. So this business of One - eight hundred is news to me!

Even the Gardai have changed their 1800 number to 1 - 800 :cool:

Mr. G

Its all the same. Some say eighteen-hundred and others say 1-800.

I see yer point though. 18xx numbers cannot be called from outside of Ireland, because they don't start with a zero. Some providers do terminate to them but that is unusual.

28064212

LordSutch wrote: »

Its a subtle difference alright, but as far as I am aware an 1800 number is not the same as a 1 - 800 number. What say you?

What's the subtle difference? You pick up a phone and start dialling: what's the difference between 1800 or 1 - 800?

FSL

The so called change on the Garda number is due more to 1 800 666 111 on the side of a Van being easier to read and remember than 1800666111 rather than any change whatsoever in the actual numbering system.

LordSutch

28064212 wrote: »

What's the subtle difference? You pick up a phone and start dialling: what's the difference between 1800 or 1 - 800?

The subtle difference is in the detail. I was at Eircom when "eighteen hundred" numbers were introduced here, and its beginning to look like 1 - 800 numbers have never been released here, hence my query . . . . . .

People are doing a lot of messing around with numbers these days. The current fad is to break up Dublin numbers 'continental style' so you will see things like 01 27 84 443, or maybe 012 78 44 43, neither of which make any sense to me. Same goes for US style 1 - 800 numbers, or 1 - 890 numbers which just don't belong here. When the numbers were released in the ROI, 'Eighteen' was in the small print, (not one eight ninety).

I will retire to my pedants cave now and cogitate over the numbers )

LordSutch

FSL wrote: »

The so called change on the Garda number is due more to 1 800 666 111 on the side of a Van being easier to read and remember than 1800666111 rather than any change whatsoever in the actual numbering system.

Indeed, and that's why it used to be correctly advertised as > 1800 666 111.

Now its 1 - 800 666 111.

Mr. G

LordSutch wrote: »

Indeed, and that's why it used to be correctly advertised as > 1800 666 111.

Now its 1 - 800 666 111.

Well actually its 1 800 666 111. Just say'in. You make a fair point though.

I don't think there would be much confusion between the US 1-800 and Ireland's 1800 numbers.

LordSutch

Thanks for your input Mr G, as a matter of interst, what do you make of the continental style numbering mentioned in post#12.

Cushie Butterfield

LordSutch wrote: »

I only ask because 1 - 800 numbers are normally found in the United States.

Curious.

Just go ahead & dial the digits. Don't worry about spaces or dashes, they just make the numbers easier to read & remember.

Type 17

The numbers you dial are all down to your nation's national dialling plan:

In the US, you dial 1 to route your call outside of your local area code, eg: in New York, you can dial 234 5678 inside the 212 area code, but if you're outside the 212 area code, you have to dial 1 (to leave your own area code) and then 212 234 5678.
If you want to dial an 800 (toll-free) number, you always have to dial a 1 before the 800 nnn nnnn because the 800 range is non-geographic, so no phone can be in the same area code as it, so 800 numbers are often referred to as 1-800 numbers, to clarify that you can't just dial 800 nnn nnnn.

In the UK & Ireland, a 0 (zero) is the lead digit which routes calls outside your area code, eg: in Dublin, you can dial 234 5678, but from outside the 01 area, you need to dial 0 (to leave your own area code) and then 1 234 5678.

The UK stuck to this rule for their freefone numbers, so they are 0800 nnn nnnn, but when they launched freefone numbers in Ireland in the early 90's(I think?), Telecom Eireann broke the rules of the Irish national dial plan (for marketing reasons probably), by copying the US model, which was already familiar to Irish people through US TV and film.
I remember the launch ad on the radio, which had a jingle based on a pop song "The best things in life are 1800"…

Before the launch of freefone numbers, people had to dial the operator (10 in Irl, 100 in the UK) and ask for Freephone Hertz Car Rental (or whatever business you were looking for).

SpaceTime

Ireland's had 1800 XXX XXX Freephone numbers for quite a long time. I think they were introduced around the same time as 0800 in the UK.

The convention in Ireland is to call it "One Eight Hundred". "Eighteen Hundred" is just very awkward could result in someone dialling 18 100 or something weird.

It doesn't particularly matter what way the number's formatted provided the digits are all the same. Dashes, slashes and spaces are entirely optional and just get added for ease of memorability and marketing.

Because there's such huge presence of UK media here, having the same freephone prefix was considered to be potentially confusing. That's the main reason that they opted for 1800 rather than 0800. Otherwise, you'd have had major media campaigns quoting UK 0800 numbers and Irish 0800 numbers and people wouldn't know which was which.

The US adopted "800" as their toll-free prefix and it's caught on in most countries in the form of either 1800 or 0800 or the international version 00 800.

As for Irish landline and mobile numbering, it doesn't matter what way it's presented provided that you don't make the area code confusing.

The presentation is only a guideline and convention. Nobody has to use it.

..

The only one that annoys me is where UK companies occasionally assume that a Dublin number is a UK area code and you end up with something like:

(01123) 3457 or 01123 4567 instead of 01 123 4567 or (01) 123 4567

The main thing is that anything you're printing up / putting online should be clear and non-confusing. If you're making numbers look weird or non-intuititive, then you're going to confuse people.

Dashes, slashes, chunking different numbers together etc is all just a memory aid.

The other weird one is where numbers were changed and people start writing stuff like (07191) for Sligo!

....

Also, the use of brackets on area codes is becoming rather pointless and archaic.
In the old electromechanical system it was important to not dial your own area code. Since the 1980s with the advent of modern digital (and even later electromechanical) switching systems it made no difference whether you dialled just the local number or the full number with the area code.

With mobile phones you must dial a full area code even for calls to your own network.

The idea of ( ) was that these numbers could be left out.

I think the easiest way to present numbers in Ireland is just

01 123 4567
021 123 4567
087 123 4567

If you want to chunk them like 021 123 45 45 that works too.

Also, I don't know why some people insist on calling out stuff on ads on radio / tv like call "Dublin 123 4567" ...
Are they writing from the 1950s?!

Conventions for special rate numbers are generally:

1800 "One Eight Hundred"
1850 "Eighteen Fifty" or "One Eight Fifty"
1550 "Fifteen Fifty"

You just say them in whatever way's catchiest! There's no point in getting pedantic they're just numbers you dial on a keypad.

The main thing is that you present and say them in a way that most people understand and recognise.

Saying Eighteen Hundred confuses people.
Same as saying Nought-Twenty-One instead of Oh-Two-One

gctest50

SpaceTime

SpaceTime wrote: »

The only one that annoys me is where UK companies occasionally assume that a Dublin number is a UK area code and you end up with something like:

(01123) 3457 or 01123 4567 instead of 01 123 4567 or (01) 123 4567

The main thing is that anything you're printing up / putting online should be clear and non-confusing. If you're making numbers look weird or non-intuititive, then you're going to confuse people.

Dashes, slashes, chunking different numbers together etc is all just a memory aid.

The other weird one is where numbers were changed and people start writing stuff like (07191) for Sligo!

Then again, there's still plenty in the UK who think London has three area codes, 0207, 0208 and 0203. It doesn't, it's the one code - 020. The 3, 7 or 8 is part of the local number now!

I see the other one quite a lot, such as locals in Tralee still treating their number as a 5 digit one and quoting the area code as 06671 23456 rather than 066 7123456. I also had someone in Drogheda recently give me a 5 digit number (e.g. 12345) over the phone when in fact it should have been 041 9812345.

SpaceTime

Well, a % of people are as thick as two short planks, there's very little you can do about it

I think though, Ireland's numbering plan's a little more logical than the UK one!

Trying to keep track of what's a number and what's an area code in the UK isn't easy.

(012345) 12345
(0191) 1234567

etc etc

and they follow no geographic logic either as they were originally letter codes that got morphed into numbers!

Most European numbers, other than France and a few places are 'open numbering plans', so they vary in length and format.
So, I wouldn't really worry too much as long as you dial all the digits, the network doesn't care.

It's a bit of a problem for badly implemented VoIP systems though as they won't recognise when the final digit's dialled which is why you get that delay or have to press # before the call goes through. Where as the PSTN network (and also UPC cable) analyses the numbers as you dial them and knows when you've dialled a valid number so connects the call. Where as badly implemented VoIP setups often depend on rigid dial plans because that's what North America uses.