Free GP care for under fives

SafeSurfer

The governments intends to introduce free GP care for all children under the age of five. At a time of austerity is this the best allocation of scarce resources?

Surely those most in need would already qualify for medical cards.

Sure let's throw in a few more taxes and waste the money on mad ideas

dharma200

Exactly.

They think they will be appeasing the families caught in the poverty trap of working low paid jobs and paying huge amounts for childcare etc.
I reckon the cost of this will be offset by the other in direct hits that will be made, the rise in property tax etc.

It is like giving a few kids a bag of sweets while watching the whole school go hungry. Complete and utter madness

super_furry

Like children's allowance, it'd be a great idea if means tested. Anyone with a household income of say €40k shouldn't be getting it.

Dyr

Come on lads, FG need to throw something to their constituency of rich boggers to keep em sweet

wazky

Where did they pull 5 out of though?, why not 6,7,8 or go mad altogether and pick 9.

Probably used the old dart and dartboard technique.

super_furry

wazky wrote: »

Where did they pull 5 out of though?, why not 6,7,8 or go mad altogether and pick 9.

Probably used the old dart and dartboard technique.

Because kids of 6, 7, 8 or 9 are in school, subject to more bugs and viruses and get sicker more I'd imagine.

mitresize5

its a great idea.

Two of us working in the house, big mortgage, big child care fees and bent over the barrel and taking it up the arsehole with additional taxes over the last 5 years to the point where we would be better off on the dole getting our 'entitlements'

But we still get up a 6.30am every morning and work between 40 and 60 hours a week ....

Its about time we and the other couple of hundred thousand in the 'squezed middle' got something back

paddydriver

They say it needs "legislation" to put it in place, and then they have negotiate the price with the GP's etc... so if you are planning on getting married, maybe have some kids in a few years... don't be thinking of this proposal because it will be about 10 years before they actually get it up and running!:rolleyes:

ballsymchugh

super_furry wrote: »

Because kids of 6, 7, 8 or 9 are in school, subject to more bugs and viruses and get sicker more I'd imagine.

most of the them would be picked up at a creche these days on first exposure. over 5's would be hardy enough fighting off bugs.

krudler

Long as it's not abused by idiot parents bringing every kid who has a sniffle to the doctor cos it's free, which will probably happen anyway.

Iwasfrozen

mitresize5 wrote: »

its a great idea.

Two of us working in the house, big mortgage, big child care fees and bent over the barrel and taking it up the arsehole with additional taxes over the last 5 years to the point where we would be better off on the dole getting our 'entitlements'

But we still get up a 6.30am every morning and work between 40 and 60 hours a week ....

Its about time we and the other couple of hundred thousand in the 'squezed middle' got something back

We in the West have a major sense of entitlement!

Pumpkinseeds

Even the GP's organisation has described it as a publicity stunt. A non means tested benefit for many who don't need it, while many people who have a serious need for their discretionary medical card will lose theirs. All that will happen now is that GP waiting rooms will be packed with parents whose kids have a sniffle, when in the past they'd have gotten an over the counter cold product from the chemist and those who depend on their discretionary medical card will suffer because they can't afford to pay for GP visits.

Spring Onion

In the true spirit of Mé Féin Ireland and "I am alright Jack" Ireland I strongly oppose this measure because my 2 childers are over 5 years old!!

Means test these scroungers, I don't want budget giveaways unless they are for me!

And death to the public sector!

Sierra Oscar

Just in time for the local elections next May I might add. :rolleyes:

In an ideal world all children under five should have free GP care. In reality though, can we really afford to pay for GP care for the children of the well off who can afford to pay medical costs at the moment?

The government is taking medical cards for those on the margins who desperately need them in order to pay for this exercise in vote getting.

SEPT 23 1989

under 2 is when you would need it the most

Knine

Yeah great idea - meanwhile children with disabilities wait years for appointments, have SNA's cut, respite grant cut, no services once they turn 18. Of course this category only have a minority vote.

The waiting list for genetics in Ireland is 3 years long. To see a children's heart consultant the waiting list is 2 years long. ENT also several years.

Maybe they should look after the chronically ill children before they try to buy votes.

Iwasfrozen

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

In an ideal world all children under five should have free GP care. In reality though, can we really afford to pay for GP care for the children of the well off who can afford to pay medical costs at the moment?

In a perfect world everyone would have free private healthcare but that's just not feasible.

SafeSurfer

My view is that anything that costs nothing will be abused by some people. Now at the slightest cough or sniffle all parents can rush their children to the doctor's surgery cost free to them. I heard a doctor on the radio delighted with the announcement. Of course he is.. The good doctor will get a flat fee for every child on his books regardless if they never visit the doctor's surgery.

This of course will have to be paid for. Guess by who? Ordinary tax payers. Why not increase tax allowance for medical expenses for children. This would mean that struggling parents who don't qualify for a medical card would get some relief.

This will only benefit GPs and the rich. It is a crazy policy. Especially at a time when sick people are having their medical cards withdrawn.

Am I wrong to think this is a cynical political budget stunt by Fine Gael and Labour to deflect attention from another unequal austerity budget?

miss no stars

When an adult or older child has a fever they take a lemsip and get on with it. Fevers can be fatal in infants and if not fatal, can cause lasting damage if left unchecked. Young childhood is when lots of not perhaps very serious illnesses appear, but things that need addressing such as recurring ear infections, tonsillitis and so on. People of most incomes (exception of the welfare class) have been squeezed. Taxes have gone up and up and up and all the while incomes have dropped. Nothing has been given to ordinary working people in return. At a time when so many are so squeezed, at least people won't have to worry about the cost of bringing their young child to the doctor when needed.

Ya know what? Why not give something to people who contribute rather than drain.

Gatling

They would be better off with a voucher system ,several vouchers a year ,
Rather than a card the give's unlimited gp and hospital visits that's greathly abused

miss no stars

Knine wrote: »

Yeah great idea - meanwhile children with disabilities wait years for appointments, have SNA's cut, respite grant cut, no services once they turn 18. Of course this category only have a minority vote.

The waiting list for genetics in Ireland is 3 years long. To see a children's heart consultant the waiting list is 2 years long. ENT also several years.

Maybe they should look after the chronically ill children before they try to buy votes.

The waiting list is 12 months for genetics as of a few days ago

mitresize5

GP's waiting rooms are already packed with 'kids who only have the sniffles' .... and adult who only have the sniffles, and OAP's who only have the sniffles

All with one thing in common - all medical cards holders.

Doubt there will be too many more 'kids who only have the sniffles' in the waiting room as there parents will most likely be at work and wont be in a position to take time off for a runny nose

SafeSurfer

miss no stars wrote: »

When an adult or older child has a fever they take a lemsip and get on with it. Fevers can be fatal in infants and if not fatal, can cause lasting damage if left unchecked. Young childhood is when lots of not perhaps very serious illnesses appear, but things that need addressing such as recurring ear infections, tonsillitis and so on. People of most incomes (exception of the welfare class) have been squeezed. Taxes have gone up and up and up and all the while incomes have dropped. Nothing has been given to ordinary working people in return. At a time when so many are so squeezed, at least people won't have to worry about the cost of bringing their young child to the doctor when needed.

Ya know what? Why not give something to people who contribute rather than drain.

Do it through tax relief not through universal entitlement which will create a whole new layer of beurocracy in an already bloated HSE.

miss no stars

Knine wrote: »

Yeah great idea - meanwhile children with disabilities wait years for appointments, have SNA's cut, respite grant cut, no services once they turn 18. Of course this category only have a minority vote.

The waiting list for genetics in Ireland is 3 years long. To see a children's heart consultant the waiting list is 2 years long. ENT also several years.

Maybe they should look after the chronically ill children before they try to buy votes.

The waiting list is 12 months for genetics as of a few days ago

K-9

SafeSurfer wrote: »

The governments intends to introduce free GP care for all children under the age of five. At a time of austerity is this the best allocation of scarce resources?

Surely those most in need would already qualify for medical cards.

Was reading that something like 48% of children have the card already and it doesn't cost that much to extend it.

I think the age limit is a good idea, plenty of people are struggling with bills as it is and many mightn't have the €50 to bring a child to the doctor, or might have to put it of. I suppose the downside is why pick 5 as the cut off point?

Katya

I think it's a great idea. I could just about afford my mortgage last December after spending an extra €500 on Gp visits & medicine for my husband and son. €60 per visit is scandalous when so many get it for free. In an ideal world everybody would have to pay something but when the government aren't willing to ensure everyone contributes fairly this is a help for those who actually pay. Why should I have to hold back bringing my child to the doctor when both myself & my husband are working over 90 hours a week between us, when the 'vulnerable' can toddle in when they please. It's about time WORKERS were looked after.

Knine

miss no stars wrote: »

When an adult or older child has a fever they take a lemsip and get on with it. Fevers can be fatal in infants and if not fatal, can cause lasting damage if left unchecked. Young childhood is when lots of not perhaps very serious illnesses appear, but things that need addressing such as recurring ear infections, tonsillitis and so on. People of most incomes (exception of the welfare class) have been squeezed. Taxes have gone up and up and up and all the while incomes have dropped. Nothing has been given to ordinary working people in return. At a time when so many are so squeezed, at least people won't have to worry about the cost of bringing their young child to the doctor when needed.

Ya know what? Why not give something to people who contribute rather than drain.

Because the money paying for this would be far better spent elsewhere. I had to go abroad with my child for treatment. She has a life threatening disorder. Services for her & many other children have been savaged. Meanwhile kids under 5 with a cough or snotty nose will be free. The money should be spent on services for genuinely sick children who won't be getting better after 5 years.

NinjaTruncs

I would imagine this is the first step in O'Reilly's free health care for all plan. It could also be the start of the Government implementing services for children which may give them justification for reducing Children's Allowance, i.e we determine people have to pay on average €10 a month bringing children to Doctors, we've now removed this cost so are going to reduce CA by a similar amount.

K-9

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Do it through tax relief not through universal entitlement which will create a whole new layer of beurocracy in an already bloated HSE.

You already get it through tax relief AFAIK. It shouldn't be that difficult to administer, check up the child benefit system and give them to all children under 5. An easier way would be just to do it through GP's, any child under 5 gets free treatment and just apply for the card as needs be.

Eire Go Brach

krudler wrote: »

Long as it's not abused by idiot parents bringing every kid who has a sniffle to the doctor cos it's free, which will probably happen anyway.

My gf wants to bring our child constantly to the doc. When she is ill. We have insurance. So visit to the doc cost us €20.

Of course we are going to abuse it. If only to keep my missus calm. Equals happy life for me.

Cienciano

wazky wrote: »

Where did they pull 5 out of though?, why not 6,7,8 or go mad altogether and pick 9.

Probably used the old dart and dartboard technique.

super_furry wrote: »

Because kids of 6, 7, 8 or 9 are in school, subject to more bugs and viruses and get sicker more I'd imagine.

I'm guessing as this is aimed at non medical card families, the parents will be working so the children will be in childcare. So there's still a good chance of bugs and viruses. And as childcare is so expensive (about €800 a child per month) they want to help out parents that aren't quiting their job and going on the dole when they have kids.
Seems reasonable to me! And yes, this will benefit me so I agree with it :pac:

anncoates

Obviously easier to introduce an ill-thought, vote-catching confection and ignore the real issue of inequity in the health system: gigantic waiting lists for services if you can't afford to go private with many consultant services barely covered by standard health insurance.

Sierra Oscar

Katya wrote: »

I think it's a great idea. I could just about afford my mortgage last December after spending an extra €500 on Gp visits & medicine for my husband and son. €60 per visit is scandalous when so many get it for free. In an ideal world everybody would have to pay something but when the government aren't willing to ensure everyone contributes fairly this is a help for those who actually pay. Why should I have to hold back bringing my child to the doctor when both myself & my husband are working over 90 hours a week between us, when the 'vulnerable' can toddle in when they please. It's about time WORKERS were looked after.

Who still €60 for a GP visit these days?

I have never paid more than €40 for a visit. Shop around maybe?

Sir Humphrey Appleby

It appears that giving the kids of the well off free GP care is much more important than giving medical care to those with long term illnesses who actually need such care.
Sickened by this populist shíte:mad:

Knine

miss no stars wrote: »

The waiting list is 12 months for genetics as of a few days ago

Wow only 12 mths? then the several year wait for genetic testing as they are done in batches abroad.

Hence I went to a different country where there was a 2 week wait.

They need to get their priorities right & look after the most vunerable first.

Cienciano

krudler wrote: »

Long as it's not abused by idiot parents bringing every kid who has a sniffle to the doctor cos it's free, which will probably happen anyway.

I agree with you here, but the problem is that it's hard to judge what's a sniffle and what's something more serious in a young child. At least if it's free you won't take any chances.

Gatling

Cienciano wrote: »

I'm guessing as this is aimed at non medical card families, the parents will be working so the children will be in childcare. So there's still a good chance of bugs and viruses. And as childcare is so expensive (about €800 a child per month) they want to help out parents that aren't quiting their job and going on the dole when they have kids.
Seems reasonable to me! And yes, this will benefit me so I agree with it :pac:

Bugs and virus your wasting your time and money ,

Cienciano

Gatling wrote: »

Bugs and virus your wasting your time and money ,

But how do you know? If you have a young child they can't tell you.

SafeSurfer

K-9 wrote: »

I suppose the downside is why pick 5 as the cut off point?

The fine print in the proclamation about cherishing all the children of the state equally mentioned only those under 5 being cherished equally.

I would rather pay less tax so I can pay for my own children's doctors visits than more tax to pay for everyone else's kids GP visits.

Why not do something meaningful like reducing the VAT rate on nappies?

anncoates

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Who still €60 for a GP visit these days?

I have never paid more than €40 for a visit. Shop around maybe?

Think it's more about having a doctor you trust and who is within reasonable enough distance - especially when you have kids.

Sierra Oscar

anncoates wrote: »

Think it's more about having a doctor you trust and who is within reasonable enough distance - especially when you have kids.

That's fair enough I guess, annoying that there can be such a price differential.

anncoates

K-9 wrote: »

I suppose the downside is why pick 5 as the cut off point?

Young Kids just tend to get more recurrent trivial illnesses - like ear infections, tonsillitis, colds and whatnot - that require GP visits.

Gatling

Cienciano wrote: »

But how do you know? If you have a young child they can't tell you.

I've 2 and a lot of common sense ,
Don't drag them to my gp every time they sneeze or cough

keithclancy

Their mistake is calling it 'free' it should be called fully subsidised GP care for under fives.

Saying its 'free' is misleading.

jimmycrackcorm

Pumpkinseeds wrote: »

Even the GP's organisation has described it as a publicity stunt. A non means tested benefit for many who don't need it, while many people who have a serious need for their discretionary medical card will lose theirs. All that will happen now is that GP waiting rooms will be packed with parents whose kids have a sniffle, when in the past they'd have gotten an over the counter cold product from the chemist and those who depend on their discretionary medical card will suffer because they can't afford to pay for GP visits.

Doesn't your argument aslo mean that medical card holders are also packing the waiting rooms with their sniffles?

anncoates

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

That's fair enough I guess, annoying that there can be such a price differential.

Our family GP is actually more expensive than the other doctor in the locality but we just think he's better with the kids plus he obviously knows them quite well medically now as he's our GP.

I can definitely see your point though if you just want something like a prescription and it's not a family GP situation.

UCDVet

Couple A
We'd like to have children, but we aren't quite in a financial situation to do so. We'll work hard and save money.

Couple B
Hey look! We're pregnant! BABIES!!!!! YAY!

In walks the government....
Government: Hey Couple A - I see you have a decent income and no children. You're living the good life, we're raising your taxes.
Government: Hey Couple B - Jesus! You have six kids....on your wages?! That's rough, and hey, we care about children! Here, let us pay for more of your stuff.

Maybe it's just me, but I feel like we're encouraging the exact kinds of behaviour we shouldn't be.

OldNotWIse

I remember discussions about OAP's havig their cards taken off them, and one of the prevailing arguments in favour was "why should they automatically get it just because of their age, regardless of what their income is?". I take it these people are also now willing to stand up and say, "why should under 5's get it just because of their age, regardless of what their parent's income is?"?

My friends elderly mother had hers revoked because she got a job cleaning toilets 15 hours a week to supplement her pension - but the couple down the road on a six figure salary get one for their child?

The country is in the sh1ts, we're due to exit the bailout in December after five years of raping the coping class...and Fine Gael are handing out free sweets? wtf is wrong with this country??

K-9

SafeSurfer wrote: »

I would rather pay less tax so I can pay for my own children's doctors visits than more tax to pay for everyone else's kids GP visits.

Well I suppose we tried that approach from 1987 to 2006, give people more money through tax cuts and let them decide what they spend it on.

Tbh I don't see that much difference. Give you a 1% drop in Income Tax, you get say €150 extra into your hand, that'll cover 3 visits, pay €150 extra and if you are unlucky enough to have an unhealthy child, costs of €1,000's get covered. That's what a state health system should be for, to help those unlucky enough to need it a lot.

tin79

Great news. Cha ching. Thanks Enda.

Cry your bitter tears you childless bunch!