The f**king Jobbridge!

neaideabh

Never was a fan of the initiative but still said I'd do it as it will get me experience and make me more employable!

I did a nine month internship last yr and nothing came out of it! Kept doing interviews with good feedback and getting the odd second round interview but could just not get the job!

Saw another internship and said I'd go for it as it was in an area (Med devices/Pharma/Regulated industry) that I want to get experience in. I have just completed my second month there! Because I have already completed a nine month internship I was ineligible to do another one through the jobbridge scheme but I asked them to still take me on if they can and through the FAS WPP they took me on!

I have being doing interviews in the meantime and last week I did an interview and they said they liked me and invited me for a second interview!

They offered me the role at the end and after all the **** I have been through over the last 2 or 3 yrs, I was over the moon!

I had no high expectations of the salary as after 3 yrs on the "rocker", I was happy with the prospect of taking home a wage again!

So I was expecting around €22k- €24k which would be the starting salary for a similar position for a graduate, never mind someone with experience of 4 years (which they were looking for)

Then they dropped the bomb and told me what they were offering....

€19,000.... MINIMUM WAGE!

I just thought to myself.... "would ya **** off!"

I told them that is way short of what I was expecting....
Told them that my first role after college that I was on €24,000 which went up to €26k after a year and in my last role I was on €31,000

I asked them would they budge on that figure and if it was negotiable, they Just said €20,000... MAX!

Then they just went onto say that they are basically doing me a favour and that they could go through jobbridge and get someone for free!

I was a small bit nervous at the interview and the HR girl gave me feedback saying that I did a brilliant interview and that they were gonna ask me back but that I should try and come across more confident. She said she understood that the knocks I had in the last few years being out of work may have hit my confidence a bit!

So, I can only assume that they think I am desperate and happy to go with someone with experience but be able to think they can make a €5000 cost saving by goin with me coz I'm on my second internship!

Seriously, I've never had my conscience tested as much before....

Anyone have any... advice?

Anyways..... this scenario is because of the existence of the jobbridge scheme and now the government is looking to extend jobseekers "privilages" from the entitlement of 2 internships to 3 internships!

I don't know what to say but... just don't vote Fine Gael again unless they promise to get rid of this scheme!

Obviously, other people will have a strong opinion on other matters of government duty other than employment issues but this is my anti-government issue and it affects alot of other people!

dobman88

So you're complaining about getting a full time job on minimum wage? You wan the job on your wage terms? GTFO. That's not the way it works in the real world. You should be delighted to be getting a weekly wage after being unemployed for so long.

Easier to find a job when you're in a job. Get over yourself ffs

TheBoffin

All Job Bridge does is cheapens the workforce. Granted some companies use it responsibly however for the most-part it just cheapens work force costs, massages the live register figures, and still leaves the person in a similar situation to where they started.

Mint Aero

This has nothing to do with FG. I can't remember, it was lisbon or nice treaty or whatever. We were told vote Yes and wages will be reduced to about 1.85 an hour. We voted yes second time round. Jobsbridge set up, 50 squids for a working week, there ya go boss.

Leave the country, they pay real wages abroad.

Too Tough To Die

Get out of that country.

Esel

It might be pissing you off, but $20K p.a. is more than twice as good as JSA. As dobman88 said, it is easier to get a (better) job when you are in a job. You say you were expecting €22K to €24K. €20K is not a lot below €22K..... If I was in your situation I would think long and hard before turning it down.

neaideabh

Esel wrote: »

It might be pissing you off, but $20K p.a. is more than twice as good as JSA. As dobman88 said, it is easier to get a (better) job when you are in a job. You say you were expecting €22K to €24K. €20K is not a lot below €22K..... If I was in your situation I would think long and hard before turning it down.

I appreciate that but I google the salary ranges for a similar position and there is a research data that states the range for someone working in the same type of job outside Dublin is min €33,000 to max €45,000.

Yes, I am in a position to get ripped off but they are ripping off by €13,000!

And I have to let them!

Esel

neaideabh wrote: »

I appreciate that but I google the salary ranges for a similar position and there is a research data that states the range for someone working in the same type of job outside Dublin is min €33,000 to max €45,000.

Yes, I am in a position to get ripped off but they are ripping off by €13,000!

And I have to let them!

These figures are way different to those in your OP.

neaideabh

Esel wrote: »

These figures are way different to those in your OP.

I said at the start that I expected and would be happy with €24,000, even though the min avg salary was €33,000!

They offered at €19,000!

Esel

neaideabh wrote: »

I said at the start that I expected and would be happy with €24,000, even though the min avg salary was €33,000!

They offered at €19,000!

If you said that at the interview, then I can understand your anger.

In your OP though, you said

So I was expecting around €22k- €24k which would be the starting salary for a similar position for a graduate, never mind someone with experience of 4 years (which they were looking for)

RiseToMe

All due respect OP, salarys have come down. Big time.

I work in an area where graduates were starting on 45k just four years ago. Do you know what they get now? Starting salary of 24k.

Yes 24k is still higher than your 19k. But you've been unemployed from the area for a few years, you are not a recent graduate. you were what they were actually looking for (they wanted four years experience) but how long ago was this experience and it is a industry that chamhes rapidly?
How longago did you graduate in the area?

To be honest not taking this job would be the biggest mistake you take and it pissed me off that people complain so much about being on the dole but are too greedy to take a job that gives them twice the income.

You want to work or you don't.

Everybody starts somewhere, you are being handed an opportunity at a job you want and you want to turn it down after years unemployed because the money isnt what you expected. This is exactly what's wrong with society.

whatdoicare

I think people are missing what the OP is saying:
The potential employers had jobbridge to use as a threat to make him take less money, as in, you're lucky were even giving you this as we could've just gone to jobbridge. Whereas before you could do a bit of haggling for your salary if you knew they liked you. You can't anymore, no matter how successful a business is, you have to take what you're offered and be happy.

I agree, it is pretty ****e.

D1stant

I would say suck it up

They are offering you 20k. You were expecting 22-24k. How much less after tax per week is that? Not much I'd guess. And yes they are taking the p1ss a bit, but you need to grab this and run with it. If they are a 'good' company then in 2 years time you'll have made up the difference

Its a p1sser. I know but there's not much choice right?

SeaFields

Just with the reference to Fine Geal, this scheme has become Joan Burtons little baby. She defends it to the hilt. How a Labour minister can not only defend a free labour scheme but also recently double its duration, makes my head hurt. But it keeps her live register figures down.

Skill Magill

Try and look at it as another step taken getting you closer to the job and payscheme you want. When you took on a jobbridge role, no doubt you were looking at the bigger picture, no job > do this bull for 50 extra > get a start in a job.
That is all this is, its a start. Take it, then see how you go

Almaviva

TheBoffin wrote: »

All Job Bridge does is cheapens the workforce.

Cheapening the workforce is a good thing. Downward pressure on wages is still needed to restore competitveness and get people back to work after the excessive and unmerited wage inflation of the worst of the boom years.

No Pants

Take the job and get back into the workforce. Keep your CV updated and keep an eye out for opportunities. I spent 14 months on the dole between 2009 and 2010. The difference in recruiting attitudes when I had a job was noticeable.

On a side note, I can't believe they used Job Bridge as a bargaining tool. That's unprofessional and it's already damaged the psychological contract you have with the company before you've even started. Incredibly stupid.

Annasopra

Take the job and keep looking for another one

Cee-Jay-Cee

I earn €43k in the PS. I actually take home about 48% of it due to tax prsi levys USC etc. With your €20k you'll be taking home slightly less than me as you'll be paying miminum tax and USC. It's a start and you will have the potential to move up the pay grade.

namloc1980

Almaviva wrote: »

Cheapening the workforce is a good thing. Downward pressure on wages is still needed to restore competitveness and get people back to work after the excessive and unmerited wage inflation of the worst of the boom years.

That's great and all but we are still seeing costs in this country escalate. Energy costs are going up up up. New taxes, plus water charges on the way, 23% VAT etc. Your comment sounds just like some Government/IBEC propaganda sound bite.

hawkelady

Almaviva wrote: »

Cheapening the workforce is a good thing. Downward pressure on wages is still needed to restore competitveness and get people back to work after the excessive and unmerited wage inflation of the worst of the boom years.

So you think getting paid €50 per week extra is a "good thing"??
Btw the employer doesn't pay , the government pays for the free labour.
You truely believe this is the way to manage the country?

Are you moan burton. ??

Hannibal Smith

I am so sick of that job bridge scheme...so many times I've seen a job I'd be interested in only to read further and see its on the job bridge scheme. Not only that but employers are looking to take people on for the role, under the guise of it being a job bridge internship. ..but they're really looking for a full time fully qualified person on the cheap.

And you're right op it has cheapened the whole workforce. Its a useless system and I hope they do away with it

sydthebeat

What's the length of the contract

Almaviva

namloc1980 wrote: »

That's great and all but we are still seeing costs in this country escalate. Energy costs are going up up up. New taxes, plus water charges on the way, 23% VAT etc. Your comment sounds just like some Government/IBEC propaganda sound bite.

Escalating costs mean you must cut back what you spend. Not be paid more so that you can keep affording the same expenditure. Justifying wages because of increasing costs leads to no net reduction. Just further spiralling wages, making the economy uncompetitive, more people out of work, higher taxes to fund more social welfare, etc. And the country never recovers. Not what anyone wants.

sydthebeat

Almaviva wrote: »

Escalating costs mean you must cut back what you spend. Not be paid more so that you can keep affording the same expenditure. Justifying wages because of increasing costs leads to no net reduction. Just further spiralling wages, making the economy uncompetitive, more people out of work, higher taxes to fund more social welfare, etc. And the country never recovers. Not what anyone wants.

The problem with that opinion is that it doesn't take into account the personal and asset debt taken on board during the boom which still has to be serviced, only now in light of falling wages and increasing costs.

The vast majority of people have already cut their costs to the bone. If someone is on jsa and slave bridge you can be sure there is no luxuries in their lives

yankinlk

Take the job and start looking. Use the hr feedback and any and all tools the company offers to improve and up skill. Bleed them for all its worth and in the next year or two jump ship for more cash.

The fact is yer colleagues have prolly not seen a raise in 5 years, and some may have lost money.

I think jb is ok. The ones i have seen badly and i mean badly need the help and would not be suitable as normally employed full time people for the same role. They do not have the skills or the confidence or the experience and are still given a chance.


In my opinion when we come out of the recession/depression we will be hiring for totally different types of jobs then when we last left the celtic tiger. Simply put our workforce needs to change pretty quickly or any possible growth is gonna stall big time. Or we or going to need only graduates or foreign workers to fill the gap.

Rubberchikken

definitely jobsbridge is a con, and watching ends kenny on the news last night from his party @rink in going on about how the figures on the live register are falling and how great fine gael are, ugh, made my stomach turn.
but you op are being offered a job. salary might be crap iyo, but salaries have come way down.
once in the job, you get experience, more money than on dole, and it's easier to loook for another job when employed.
good luck with it.

Hannibal Smith

Almaviva wrote: »

Escalating costs mean you must cut back what you spend. Not be paid more so that you can keep affording the same expenditure. Justifying wages because of increasing costs leads to no net reduction. Just further spiralling wages, making the economy uncompetitive, more people out of work, higher taxes to fund more social welfare, etc. And the country never recovers. Not what anyone wants.

Ah come on! How much more can we reduce our bills by? People deserve a wage which reflects their skills and not pennies because a government scheme can do it cheaper

yankinlk

Yeah the jb is so awful the op got a job out of it.

hfallada

Long term unemployment is the biggest obstacle to getting a new job. The nytimes got two identical cvs. But with the same college degrees and experience. Except one was out of work a month and the other 2 years.

The first phoney cv got a lot of interview calls. But the long term unemployed person got hardly any. OP take the job for now and keep looking for a decent one. Long term unemployment is a career killer

namloc1980

yankinlk wrote: »

Yeah the jb is so awful the op got a job out of it.

The company threatened to use job bridge if he didn't take the minimum wage. That's low in anyone's language.

Hannibal Smith

yankinlk wrote: »

Yeah the jb is so awful the op got a job out of it.

No he didn't.

UCDVet

dobman88 wrote: »

So you're complaining about getting a full time job on minimum wage? You wan the job on your wage terms? GTFO. That's not the way it works in the real world. You should be delighted to be getting a weekly wage after being unemployed for so long.

Easier to find a job when you're in a job. Get over yourself ffs

He's complaining because the jobbridge program that was designed to help people get experience has failed. It only serves to provide dirt cheap labour....and that dirt cheap labour is now his competition. The company is right, they *can* just get someone else from the jobbridge program.

We have a minimum wage for a reason...but now we're letting companies get labour cheaper than it.

Going to college, working for years, and then getting a minimum wage job because that is what the market will pay for your skillset? That's tough, but it's life and it happens.

Going to college, working for years, and then getting a minimum wage job because the government has screwed you? That's a lot harder to swallow.

yankinlk

UCDVet wrote: »

Going to college, working for years, and then getting a minimum wage job because that is what the market will pay for your skillset?

But hold on mate, OP. Said "Saw another internship and said I'd go for it as it was in an area (Med devices/Pharma/Regulated industry) that I want to get experience in."

So op did not have the skillset. Op did good and impressed the employer enough in jb to be kept on. But that does not mean that if the employer could afford to employ someone with the actual skillset already that this same person would get that job.

UCDVet

yankinlk wrote: »

But hold on mate, OP. Said "Saw another internship and said I'd go for it as it was in an area (Med devices/Pharma/Regulated industry) that I want to get experience in."

So op did not have the skillset. Op did good and impressed the employer enough in jb to be kept on. But that does not mean that if the employer could afford to employ someone with the actual skillset already that this same person would get that job.

I might have misread the OP's post....

He went to college.
He got a job making 24k
After a year it was 26k
Then his last role, 31k

So I read that as 2-3 years of experience, and he's a good employee.

Then he did 9 month internship
Then, two months ago, he got another internship.
Then, he interviewed at a different company and landed a job offer, for minimum wage.

I find it hard to believe that two months of experience at a pharma company is what sealed the deal and got him this job offer. If I'm reading it wrong, then my apologies.

Red Kev

OP, I sympathise with your position, and I can understand why you feel that you are being ripped off. My ex-girlfriends sister is in the same position as yourself, currently working for €21,800 p.a. when the same job is paying €32,000 + in other places in Ireland, the UK and the EU. She was on €34,000 in 2010 when she was made redundant from her last job.

We sat down and discussed it when she was offered the job, advised her to take it as she will learn something, gain experience and can use it as a base to look for a different position. She started the job in February and already has an offer from a company in the UK on €32K starting next March, they said that her experience in her present job was relevant to getting offered the position.

She doesn't really want to go to the UK and intends approaching the company here to ask for a major raise (28-30K) as she has brought more to the job than was in her original job spec. The company can easily afford to pay her more, if she doesn't get the higher offer here she always has a 3 year contract in the UK to fall back on.

I'd advise you to swallow the bitter pill, do the job to your best ability, give it 6-12 months, then re-evaluate the position. You may well become an important component in the company and they may well offer you a lot more financially and in benefits. If not then use the job as a base for looking for other work elsewhere.

yoloc

Bend over and take it like a man.your country needs you!

Elessar

This driving down of wages is sickening. Eventually we'll all be forced to work for free in "internships" to get experience in the hope of getting an actual paying job at some other point in time. Only to realise that they too are now "internships" and only top management and the well connected get an honest salary!

Well ok maybe that's an exaggeration, but how does this country expect to retain people when wages are so low? Even moving on to better positions, wages are still not much better.

I've seen job specs looking for experienced IT people with degrees and certs up the backside, for the princely salary of €19k p/a!

If you are new in the sector and need the experience it's worth swallowing your pride for the year or so, but after that claw together your self respect and move on!

Gee_G

I completely agree that job bridge is absolutely ridiculous and employers are taking the piss altogether with it. But at the same time, why wouldn't they. Its free labour and they are getting away with it!!

Anyway, I think you should take the job,If you can afford it(no huge childcare or commuting costs). As my mother says, its a means to an end!:-) you will get something else a lot easier if you are already in employment!

ro_chez

neaideabh wrote: »

Never was a fan of the initiative but still said I'd do it as it will get me experience and make me more employable!

I did a nine month internship last yr and nothing came out of it! Kept doing interviews with good feedback and getting the odd second round interview but could just not get the job!

Saw another internship and said I'd go for it as it was in an area (Med devices/Pharma/Regulated industry) that I want to get experience in. I have just completed my second month there! Because I have already completed a nine month internship I was ineligible to do another one through the jobbridge scheme but I asked them to still take me on if they can and through the FAS WPP they took me on!

I have being doing interviews in the meantime and last week I did an interview and they said they liked me and invited me for a second interview!

They offered me the role at the end and after all the **** I have been through over the last 2 or 3 yrs, I was over the moon!

I had no high expectations of the salary as after 3 yrs on the "rocker", I was happy with the prospect of taking home a wage again!

So I was expecting around €22k- €24k which would be the starting salary for a similar position for a graduate, never mind someone with experience of 4 years (which they were looking for)

Then they dropped the bomb and told me what they were offering....

€19,000.... MINIMUM WAGE!

I just thought to myself.... "would ya **** off!"

I told them that is way short of what I was expecting....
Told them that my first role after college that I was on €24,000 which went up to €26k after a year and in my last role I was on €31,000

I asked them would they budge on that figure and if it was negotiable, they Just said €20,000... MAX!

Then they just went onto say that they are basically doing me a favour and that they could go through jobbridge and get someone for free!

I was a small bit nervous at the interview and the HR girl gave me feedback saying that I did a brilliant interview and that they were gonna ask me back but that I should try and come across more confident. She said she understood that the knocks I had in the last few years being out of work may have hit my confidence a bit!

So, I can only assume that they think I am desperate and happy to go with someone with experience but be able to think they can make a €5000 cost saving by goin with me coz I'm on my second internship!

Seriously, I've never had my conscience tested as much before....

Anyone have any... advice?

Anyways..... this scenario is because of the existence of the jobbridge scheme and now the government is looking to extend jobseekers "privilages" from the entitlement of 2 internships to 3 internships!

I don't know what to say but... just don't vote Fine Gael again unless they promise to get rid of this scheme!

Obviously, other people will have a strong opinion on other matters of government duty other than employment issues but this is my anti-government issue and it affects alot of other people!

So you were offered a job and they agreed to pay you and even raised the salary from 19k to 20k and you told them to **** off? People like you need to **** off!

Joe10000

I understand your frustration but take the job, use them as much as they are using you in terms of training/ developing yourself and in 18 months start putting the feelers out for a job on the next rung.

neaideabh

ro_chez wrote: »

So you were offered a job and they agreed to pay you and even raised the salary from 19k to 20k and you told them to **** off? People like you need to **** off!

Em... Did you even read what I said... Read it again....

Off course I didn't tell them to F**k off.... I said I felt like telling them to f**k off!

up for anything

OP, every business is at it. My daughter recently got a job in a small family business - roughly 3.5 days a week which suits her as she is doing a part-time course and needs to pay back the loan for the course and fund her travel to classes.

This week she was given no hours. Why? Because they'd taken on a transition year work experience student. :mad:

Wanderer2010

Gee_G wrote: »

you will get something else a lot easier if you are already in employment!

This must be said at least 10 times a day on Boards and its a myth. I spent a whole year interviewing and looking around for a job before In got the one Im in now, and I had to dip into quite a bit of my annual leave to go to interviews, travel etc and a lot of my weekends were spent applying for jobs. Out of 7 interviews I did, not once did I get the impression that being "currently in a job" gave me any advantage whatsoever over a graduate who could start right there right then, There are other factors at play like the type of job, how well you interview and salary etc. Its just not true in this market that having a job instantly gives you a big leg-up over the other members of the job seeking market.

Maximus Alexander

CJC999 wrote: »

I earn €43k in the PS. I actually take home about 48% of it due to tax prsi levys USC etc. With your €20k you'll be taking home slightly less than me as you'll be paying miminum tax and USC. It's a start and you will have the potential to move up the pay grade.

I don't know how you're getting screwed so hard for tax, but I earn almost exactly what you do and I take home about 70% of it. What's going on there, or were you exaggerating!?

There's a huge difference between what you take home on 20k vs 43k.

Tombi!

Consider moving.
Even up north you'd probably get a better wage.

You won't have to "compete" with slave labour.

animaal

Are your skills and experience worth more than the 20k you'll be earning in this role?

If so, is your current lack of success in obtaining a higher salary due entirely to the fact that you're not currently in a job?

If both answers are yes, then the company is taking full advantage of the economics of the skills market. They're free to do that, but so are you. Take the job. If being out of a of a job is all that's holding you back, taking the job will solve your problem.

As soon as you take the job, update your CV and put plenty of effort into finding a new job. It's not very loyal, but loyalty works both ways. If this company can use the current skills market to their full advantage, so can you. Once you get a better offer, you can either take it, or use it as leverage it to increase your current salary. Although I wouldn't work for a company that values me at the minimum wage when others don't.

On the flip side, if you take the job and don't get higher offers elsewhere, you've learned the true value of your skills in today's economy!

Ace2007

SeaFields wrote: »

Just with the reference to Fine Geal, this scheme has become Joan Burtons little baby. She defends it to the hilt. How a Labour minister can not only defend a free labour scheme but also recently double its duration, makes my head hurt. But it keeps her live register figures down.

How does it keep the live register figures down - the person is still on the dole?

The idea of job bridge makes sense, however unfortunately the government cannot implement the system in a fair manner and instead like most things they do f**ked it up.

Tombi!

Ace2007 wrote: »

How does it keep the live register figures down - the person is still on the dole?

AFAIK, if you're on jobbridge, you're not part of the register.

Essentially you're still getting the dole (plus 50 quid) from the government but they consider you "working" but expect you to do it for well below minimum wage.

alboco

The way it works in the Real World...of semi states and PS is you get an annual increment every year.....

funt cucker

neaideabh wrote: »

Never was a fan of the initiative but still said I'd do it as it will get me experience and make me more employable!

I did a nine month internship last yr and nothing came out of it! Kept doing interviews with good feedback and getting the odd second round interview but could just not get the job!

Saw another internship and said I'd go for it as it was in an area (Med devices/Pharma/Regulated industry) that I want to get experience in. I have just completed my second month there! Because I have already completed a nine month internship I was ineligible to do another one through the jobbridge scheme but I asked them to still take me on if they can and through the FAS WPP they took me on!

I have being doing interviews in the meantime and last week I did an interview and they said they liked me and invited me for a second interview!

They offered me the role at the end and after all the **** I have been through over the last 2 or 3 yrs, I was over the moon!

I had no high expectations of the salary as after 3 yrs on the "rocker", I was happy with the prospect of taking home a wage again!

So I was expecting around €22k- €24k which would be the starting salary for a similar position for a graduate, never mind someone with experience of 4 years (which they were looking for)

Then they dropped the bomb and told me what they were offering....

€19,000.... MINIMUM WAGE!

I just thought to myself.... "would ya **** off!"

I told them that is way short of what I was expecting....
Told them that my first role after college that I was on €24,000 which went up to €26k after a year and in my last role I was on €31,000

I asked them would they budge on that figure and if it was negotiable, they Just said €20,000... MAX!

Then they just went onto say that they are basically doing me a favour and that they could go through jobbridge and get someone for free!

I was a small bit nervous at the interview and the HR girl gave me feedback saying that I did a brilliant interview and that they were gonna ask me back but that I should try and come across more confident. She said she understood that the knocks I had in the last few years being out of work may have hit my confidence a bit!

So, I can only assume that they think I am desperate and happy to go with someone with experience but be able to think they can make a €5000 cost saving by goin with me coz I'm on my second internship!

Seriously, I've never had my conscience tested as much before....

Anyone have any... advice?

Anyways..... this scenario is because of the existence of the jobbridge scheme and now the government is looking to extend jobseekers "privilages" from the entitlement of 2 internships to 3 internships!

I don't know what to say but... just don't vote Fine Gael again unless they promise to get rid of this scheme!

Obviously, other people will have a strong opinion on other matters of government duty other than employment issues but this is my anti-government issue and it affects alot of other people!

You should take that position and work at it. I work in a similar area, and in my experience, the "interns" on low salary were given pay rises and other benefits after about 15 months.