€650 a month for a bed and a couch

wobzilla1

My girlfriend and I moved into a 2nd floor flat last month. We were dealing with an estate agents who gave us a copy of our contract and the keys etc. We were also given the landlord's phone number and a direct debit was set up for the 2nd month's rent (The first month and deposit were paid in cash to the estate agent). The 2nd night we were there I turned on the oven to make dinner and after 20 minutes the preheat light was still on. The oven was ridiculously hot though but the preheat said it was only at 90 degrees. The thermostat is obviously gone in it and it's impossible to cook anything without having it burnt on the outside and raw in the middle.

The microwave is also broken. I ran it for 10 minutes with half a glass of water which came out cold.

The door seperating the freezer compartment from the fridge is broken so it's too cold to refrigerate stuff and too warm to freeze stuff.

I did a few small things myself - none of the bulbs in the place were working so I replaced them, the front door could be pushed open with practically no effort as the doorframe was split and the receiver for the lock was practically hanging off, I fixed that - I also had to attach a draft barrier to the door as someone opened the outside door and left it open all night (We're the only ones who use this door so I don't know who has keys.)

I emailed the estate agents this and they said they'd pass it onto the landlord.

I waited a few days without hearing anything and then I noticed that my phone number was wrong on the contract. I emailed the agents letting them know and giving them my correct number. They replied with the landlord's number and told me to contact him.

I called him and he said he's get back to me. My girlfriend then went away for 2 weeks and I planned to sort everything out by the time she got back.

Needless to say, he never called me back and each time I called him over the next few days he either didn't answer or he was driving and had to hang up.

Eventually he told me to text him the next morning at ten and someone would be down by lunchtime.

I text him at ten that morning (my birthday) and waited until six in the evening for somebody to show up, before giving up and going out.

My girlfriend has since returned and tried numerous times to call him with no answer and texted him with no replies.

The people underneath us called me in last week to show me water damage from our shower coming down into their apartment. I told them I'd tried to contact the landlord and he was ignoring me.

I sent another email to the estate agents, telling them I hadn't been contacted and about the leak and I received a reply telling me that they are not employed to fix anything and to contact the landlord.

I eventually decided to remove all money from my account the day before the rent was due and when he called me, to agree to pay only when everything was fixed.
We have been living for a month with nothing but a bed and a couch, eating soup every day.

Unfortunately, I took all the money out using an ATM from another bank and it didn't register in time.
So now the landlord has gotten his €650 and I'm €650 overdrawn.

He is still ignoring calls from us.

Can I go out and buy an oven, a fridge, and a microwave and deduct it from next month's rent?

NOTE: I have also received the landlord's house number and address from a 3rd party. Can I call up to his house?

B00MSTICK

I'd call to his house if I were you OP. Nothing illegal about ringing someones doorbell and chatting with them. He has given you the runaround for long enough.
If he tells you to feck off then you'll have a good idea where you stand.

Pkiernan

As much as I hate when tenant abuse the system, in this case your LL is shafting you.

Withold the rent going forward.

In theory you can be evicted for doing so, but the reality is as follows:

1. LL must issue a correct in every detail 14 dat notice to pay your arrears.
2. LL must then issue a 28 day notice to terminate the tenancy.
3. LL must then ultimately get a Court Order to get you out.

If the LL circumvents this process in any way (for example by chagning your locks) he will have illegally evicted you, and will be forced to pay you up to 10k.

This will take 9 to 18 months - I know from my experience as a LL with a scumbag tenant who wasn't paying me.

Why are you still there? Photograph everything. Get records of all phone calls, texts and emails and get the hell out of there. Let him sue you and see how far he gets. ALWAYS visit and check out property before signing anything.

shruikan2553

I know for getting work done you can get a few quotes for the job and send them to the LL giving him time to reply. If he doesnt reply you can just hire one of the quotes yourself and take the cost out of the rent. It may be possible to do this with essential appliances too.

foggy_lad

OP can you get your bank to do a chargeback on the rent ppayment? Tell them to do this as the amount is in dispute. You should not have to pay for this dump.

Then try to find a better place and get out of that sh1thole. The LL is obviously not bothered as long as the rent goes in his account.

djimi

Put issues in writing (proper letter) to the landlord, and request a time frame (again in writing) as to when you can expect the repairs to be made. If time frame is not adhered to then write one further letter, again outlining all outstanding issues, and stating that if issues are not resolved in a timely fashion then you will be terminating the tenancy due to a breach of landlord obligations, and you will expect your deposit to be returned and you will be going through the PRTB if necessary. Keep a copy of all correspondance.

Just bear in mind that, although it might be a short term fix for the issue, withholding rent is not a legal means of resolving an issue and could be seen as a black mark against you if you do need to go to the PRTB.

wobzilla1

If I go and buy appliances tomorrow and refuse the rent next month, what can he do?

athtrasna

wobzilla1 wrote: »

If I go and buy appliances tomorrow and refuse the rent next month, what can he do?

That changes the law from being on your side to being on the landlord's!

wobzilla1

So legally there's nothing I can do to have anything done until another month at least?

odds_on

You have gone about the matter in a nearly correct manner. Your initial cnotact about the problems should have been in writing, and, as djimi says, you should have given a specified time frame for the issues to be remedied - a reasonable time frame would be within 14 days (i.e. please have these issues remedied within 14 days of this letter / have these issues remedied by 25th October 2013).

It is also worth while advising the landlord at the same time of options 2 and 3 below, should he fail to remedy the issues.

If the landlord has not remedied the issues within the time frame, he may be in breach of his obligations and therefore the tenant has basically 3 options (if the LL has attempted to remedy an issue but has to wait for things outside his control such as spare parts which must be ordered specially, he will have fulfilled his obligations):
1) Live with it and keep pestering the landlord / EA for the issues to be remedied.
2) Obtain at least 2 quotes for the repairs/replacements, accept the lowest and deduct the cost from the rent until the full cost has been recuperated.
3) If the tenant decides he would rather vacate the property, serve the landlord with a written notice of termination with a notice period of 28 days and that you will be looking for your full deposit to be returned.

percy212

Horrible situation OP. This guy sounds like a complete ass. Another amateur living off the rent from his investment hovel I suppose. Try PRTB, Threshold, and your local TD for advice.

I would personally be very tempted to shaft back and wait for eviction. That would be wrong of course, but it would be very very tempting.....

wobzilla1

We still haven't heard from him.
Our calls aren't picked up and our texts are left unanswered.
I've already gone to the bank and cancelled the standing order but I'm not going to wait until next month's rent day to get sorted.
I feel bad for the family below me who have water coming into their living room every time I shower (practically every day because I'm a sweaty bastard).

Steodonn

All you can really do is withhold the rent and keep at him and start asking the EA for the deposit back from them might make them take notice. If your willing to live with enjoy you free apartment for 6 months if not maybe you could ask anyone else affected to stop paying their rent ( if that family under you has the same landlord ). He'd take notice pretty quickly if his money stopped coming in

wirelessdude01

Do the family underneath have the same landlord? If not is there anything wrong with giving them your landlords details and letting them hassle your landlord about the issues with the shower?

Mustard1972

wobzilla1 wrote: »

We still haven't heard from him.
Our calls aren't picked up and our texts are left unanswered.
I've already gone to the bank and cancelled the standing order but I'm not going to wait until next month's rent day to get sorted.
I feel bad for the family below me who have water coming into their living room every time I shower (practically every day because I'm a sweaty bastard).

Careful.
Now that they know you know about the shower leaking you are the one responsible for any damage done after you discovered the problem.
Would you not give the people below you a break and not be pouring water into their living room now?

Doop

Mustard1972 wrote: »

Careful.
Now that they know you know about the shower leaking you are the one responsible for any damage done after you discovered the problem.
Would you not give the people below you a break and not be pouring water into their living room now?

how is he responsible when he cant make the repairs?
would your solution be not to shower for the foreseeable future?

OP.. is there temporary way you cud rig a shower curtain or something so the water only goes into the shower tray?

You should ask the EA who holds the deposit them or the LL. Sounds like they were hired to let the place only not manage it so chances are they passed over the deposit to the LL.

Victor

Steodonn wrote: »

All you can really do is withhold the rent

The tenant might not have an entitlement to do this and it may put them in a legally precarious position.

Moderator

Mustard1972

Doop wrote: »

how is he responsible when he cant make the repairs?
would your solution be not to shower for the foreseeable future?

OP.. is there temporary way you cud rig a shower curtain or something so the water only goes into the shower tray?

You should ask the EA who holds the deposit them or the LL. Sounds like they were hired to let the place only not manage it so chances are they passed over the deposit to the LL.

He is knowingly causing damage by his actions. Different if he doesn't know he is causing damage, but he has shown he does know and continues to do the thing that causes the damage. Do now the damage is actually his fault.

wirelessdude01

Mustard1972 wrote: »

He is knowingly causing damage by his actions. Different if he doesn't know he is causing damage, but he has shown he does know and continues to do the thing that causes the damage. Do now the damage is actually his fault.

What is he meant to do? Not shower? He has tried to contact his LL and no reply.

djimi

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

What is he meant to do? Not shower? He has tried to contact his LL and no reply.

I actually agree with Mustard; its one thing if the OP had no idea of the issue, but to be aware that the problem exists and to continue using the shower and making it worse for the neighbour is just plain badness.

If the landlord wont sort this issue and the OP has no showering facilities (which at the moment they dont) then its up to them to get the issue sorted, including moving to terminate the lease if thats whats it takes and the landlord wont sort the issue.

odds_on

OP, do you have an address for the landlord? If the landlord is using an agent, you should, as I said in a previous post, put all your issues in writing and you may also add that as the landlord has been notified of the shower water leaking to the flat below, this is now his responsibility for any damage that this has caused.

Furthermore, as you are now unable to use the shower without further damage to the property, he (the landlord) is now in breach of his obligations as regards housing standards for rented accommodation and as he is not responding to your emergency phone calls, you have no alternative but to make a claim with the PRTB.

You should now states that this is a very serious matter and must be remedied within 5 days. Send your letter by "Express Post" which guarantees delivery without a signature by the recipient. One copy to the landlord and another to the agent.

The PRTB take a very dim view of landlords who do not respond / answer the contact for emergencies.

miss no stars

Complain to your local authority and then advise landlord of such.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/repairs_maintenance_and_minimum_physical_standards.html#l43eb3

zl1whqvjs75cdy

djimi wrote: »

I actually agree with Mustard; its one thing if the OP had no idea of the issue, but to be aware that the problem exists and to continue using the shower and making it worse for the neighbour is just plain badness.

If the landlord wont sort this issue and the OP has no showering facilities (which at the moment they dont) then its up to them to get the issue sorted, including moving to terminate the lease if thats whats it takes and the landlord wont sort the issue.

To terminate a lease takes a certain number of notice days. Is the OP supposed to not shower for the duration of their notice?

pwurple

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

To terminate a lease takes a certain number of notice days. Is the OP supposed to not shower for the duration of their notice?

You can't piss water down on someone else knowingly. If he can't shower there, then he showers elsewhere. Work, friends house, gym etc. consider the shower out of order.

djimi

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

To terminate a lease takes a certain number of notice days. Is the OP supposed to not shower for the duration of their notice?

So you think its okay for the OP to continue causing further damage to their neighbours property?

zl1whqvjs75cdy

What would you do in the situation djimi? Stop showering? Not trying to be snarky genuinely curious, its a tricky situation.

djimi

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

What would you do in the situation djimi? Stop showering? Not trying to be snarky genuinely curious, its a tricky situation.

Id go home to my parents to shower. Or Id find somewhere else to take a shower (friend/gym/club etc). What I wouldnt do is continue to use the shower at home, knowing that was it was causing futher damage to my neighbours property.

The shower is out of order for the OP; the fact that it still operates is neither here nor there. If your toilet overflowed every time you flushed it would you continue to use it?

miss no stars

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

What would you do in the situation djimi? Stop showering? Not trying to be snarky genuinely curious, its a tricky situation.

It's already been said - shower elsewhere. If that means paying €4 into the nearest community leisure centre then so be it - keep the receipts and pursue the landlord for the money.

While you're at it, tell the landlord that the accumulated costs of showering elsewhere will be deducted from next month's rent... €8 per day (2 people at €4 per day), times 14 is €112 just like that if the LL doesn't get on top of it within 2 weeks...

GavMan

To be fair, the shower elsewhere advice is just deflecting the issue from a slacking LL.

What if your parents lived the other side of the country, knew no one in your area and weren't a member of a gym/sports club?

Typically Irish attitude IMO.

OP, Find a way to walk away from that lease in the cleanest manner possible.

As an aside, did you not view the place before hand a see the issue with the door, etc?

pwurple

GavMan wrote: »

To be fair, the shower elsewhere advice is just deflecting the issue from a slacking LL.

Well, taking out your own issue with the landlord on some unsuspecting other person, who you have no grievance with isn't going to help much either in fairness. The landlord issue is separate, and should be dealt with in the ways highlighted above.

Put in writing your complaint, register the issue with PRTB and try any and all means to get in contact. Agent, directly, calling to house, etc.

Make sure you have evidence of everything. Photographs, copy of the letter sent, keep records of phonecalls and all correspondence.

djimi

GavMan wrote: »

To be fair, the shower elsewhere advice is just deflecting the issue from a slacking LL.

What if your parents lived the other side of the country, knew no one in your area and weren't a member of a gym/sports club?

Typically Irish attitude IMO.

You seem to have missed the point that was being made. Telling the OP to shower elsewhere has nothing to do with the landlord; it is about not making the situation any worse for the neighbours, who are getting rained on from above every time they use the shower. Its got nothing to do with deflecting the issue; if anything it could be used to reinforce the issue with the landlord (if it were me and I had no other options I would have no issue with paying to get access to the local public swimming pool to use the showers, keeping the receipts, and deducting all the money spent from the rent (after warning the landlord in advance in writing of the course of action that I intended to take)).

wirelessdude01

djimi wrote: »

You seem to have missed the point that was being made. Telling the OP to shower elsewhere has nothing to do with the landlord; it is about not making the situation any worse for the neighbours, who are getting rained on from above every time they use the shower. Its got nothing to do with deflecting the issue; if anything it could be used to reinforce the issue with the landlord (if it were me and I had no other options I would have no issue with paying to get access to the local public swimming pool to use the showers, keeping the receipts, and deducting all the money spent from the rent (after warning the landlord in advance in writing of the course of action that I intended to take)).

And how long is the OP meant to take this course of action, days, weeks, months? Remember the OP has been unable to make contact with the LL so going by what you have advised the OP could be doing this for the rest of the tenancy.

Mustard1972

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

And how long is the OP meant to take this course of action, days, weeks, months? Remember the OP has been unable to make contact with the LL so going by what you have advised the OP could be doing this for the rest of the tenancy.

If your landlord didn't unblock your toilet and it was overflowing would you keep sh1tting in it until he fixed it. Who would you say would be to blame for the river if **** running through your house then?

wirelessdude01

Mustard1972 wrote: »

If your landlord didn't unblock your toilet and it was overflowing would you keep sh1tting in it until he fixed it. Who would you say would be to blame for the river if **** running through your house then?

Same question to that. How long could the person be expected to put up with it? Days, weeks, months?

pwurple

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Same question to that. How long could the person be expected to put up with it? Days, weeks, months?

There are ways of dealing with this, which have been outlined in this thread.

PRTB can be contacted, complaints made in writing etc, etc, etc. I hope the OP is going ahead with those. Whining on the internet and not actually completing any of the proper steps doesn't get you very far.

Soaking the neighbours is just being a dick.

Mustard1972

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Same question to that. How long could the person be expected to put up with it? Days, weeks, months?

So if it wasn't fixed for a month would you keep ****ting in it for month then?

Mustard1972

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Same question to that. How long could the person be expected to put up with it? Days, weeks, months?

So if it wasn't fixed for a month would you keep ****ting in it for month then?

Mustard1972

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Same question to that. How long could the person be expected to put up with it? Days, weeks, months?

So if it wasn't fixed for a month would you keep ****ting in it for month then?

miss no stars

pwurple wrote: »

There are ways of dealing with this, which have been outlined in this thread.

PRTB can be contacted, complaints made in writing etc, etc, etc. I hope the OP is going ahead with those. Whining on the internet and not actually completing any of the proper steps doesn't get you very far.

Soaking the neighbours is just being a dick.

As well as contacting the local authority to report rental accommodation that doesn't even have basic sanitary facilities.

Seriously, I can't believe people are saying "ah, not my problem, I told the landlord" is a good enough excuse to do serious damage to someone else's home that could run into repairs to the tune of thousands?

Seriously?

Or, you could stop showering there and find a way to make do, inform the landlord of your intentions to pay into somewhere to shower and tell the LL that you'll be deducting the cost of it from the next months rent and ALSO, if they don't have a plumber there within 24 hours, and the situation resolved within the week, you'll be terminating the lease as the LL is failing to uphold their side of the contract and will pursue the deposit through whatever means necessary.

And then out of courtesy, you go downstairs to the neighbours with a bottle of wine/box of chocolates/flowers/some sort of token and apologise for the leak, tell them that you're constantly on to the landlord trying to get it fixed and you've stopped showering there so hopefully they won't have any more water coming in to their apartment. Enquire as to whether it has stopped or do they reckon there's a more active leak than water escaping when the shower's used....

Then you hand the neighbours a card with the landlord's details on it so that "if you're not home" and a problem arises, they can get on to the landlord directly...



But no, on reflection it seems like it's much more sensible to give two fingers up to a completely innocent party. :rolleyes:

wirelessdude01

Well should the OP keep going elsewhere for whatever amount of time just because the LL is a lazy sod? It isn't feasible for the OP to keep going to the gym/pool every time they want a shower. This is letting the LL out of their obligations to fix stuff.

miss no stars

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Well should the OP keep going elsewhere for whatever amount of time just because the LL is a lazy sod? It isn't feasible for the OP to keep going to the gym/pool every time they want a shower. This is letting the LL out of their obligations to fix stuff.

No, they give the landlord a timeframe, after which they move out.

odds_on

miss no stars wrote: »

No, they give the landlord a timeframe, after which they move out.

In my posts #11 and #22 I have said that the OP should write to the landlord and set a time frame within which the issues should be remedied.

miss no stars

odds_on wrote: »

In my posts #11 and #22 I have said that the OP should write to the landlord and set a time frame within which the issues should be remedied.

Are we not arguing the same point here? They set a timeframe, if LL doesn't fix issues they terminate the lease and move out...

djimi

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Well should the OP keep going elsewhere for whatever amount of time just because the LL is a lazy sod? It isn't feasible for the OP to keep going to the gym/pool every time they want a shower. This is letting the LL out of their obligations to fix stuff.

Yes, is the simple and straight answer to that question. The shower is out of order as it is causing damage to a neighbours property; it is unavailable for use, end of story.

It's not letting the landlord out of anything. The landlord has an obligation to fix this issue; if they do not do so in a timely fashion after written notice of the issue then you seek to terminate the lease based on the landlords breach of obligation.

While doing so you continue to shower elsewhere.

odds_on

djimi wrote: »

Yes, is the simple and straight answer to that question. The shower is out of order as it is causing damage to a neighbours property; it is unavailable for use, end of story.

It's not letting the landlord out of anything. The landlord has an obligation to fix this issue; if they do not do so in a timely fashion after written notice of the issue then you seek to terminate the lease based on the landlords breach of obligation.

While doing so you continue to shower elsewhere.

Or the OP could get preferably three quotes to fix the problem, accept the lowest and have the problem fixed while deducting the cost from the rent payments.

Notice period for a landlord's breach of obligations is 28 days. The issue could probably be fixed in several days.

djimi

odds_on wrote: »

Or the OP could get preferably three quotes to fix the problem, accept the lowest and have the problem fixed while deducting the cost from the rent payments.

Notice period for a landlord's breach of obligations is 28 days. The issue could probably be fixed in several days.

The landlord has shown no interest in fixing this issue and has shown that they have little regard for their obligations. They have also given the OP a pretty solid reason to move to terminate the lease. Why on earth would you want to continue dealing with this sort of landlord? Most people would be looking for a way out of such a tenancy.

Also why should the OP be out of pocket for even a few weeks due to this issue? Its not likely to be a cheap fix, and chances are there are still going to be related issues to resolve even after the plumbing has been sorted (chances are the water leaking over such a prolonged period of time has caused damage to other areas of the room/house that need sorting, and thats before the neighbours get involved).

_Kaiser_

Document everything, photograph everything, move out and tell him to sue you.

Yes it might not be the "legal" way but reading all the advice here (which I know is legally correct and in good faith) you'd be going round in circles for months between the different organisations involved - it's the Irish way.. make "the system" so convoluted and ineffective that good people will just give up, and applies to practically EVERYTHING in this country! It's how cowboys like your LL exist.

In the meantime you and your gf are supposed to put up with the litany of issues AND piss your neighbours off because of the shower issue AND pay him rent every month?

Feck that IMO - I'd get yourselves sorted out first and then let him take you to court. By the sounds of it though I wouldn't say you'll hear any more about it given his attitude to-date. The only issue would be your deposit and it may be something you have to write off in the long run, but from all you've said I think I'd live with it if I had to.

No this isn't legal advice and it's entirely up to you how you handle it in the end, but not a chance would I be putting up with that nonsense for another week, never mind another year.

percy212

Any progress OP?

wobzilla1

There was a bit of a mix-up with the address so I just found out where he lived on Sunday.
I sent the following letter by express post today.

Mr X,

We are writing in relation to our tenancy at X.

As we have previously made you aware of, there are a number of appliances in the apartment which have needed repairing or replacing since we moved in.

We have now been living in the property for seven weeks and still have no means of cooking or keeping fresh food due to issues with the oven, microwave and fridge.

We have tried contacting you numerous times and you have either not picked up or have failed to get back to us.

As such, we are now requesting that these appliances be replaced by Wednesday 9th November or we will replace them ourselves and deduct the cost from the rent due on that date.

You can contact us on ********** (me) or ******** (her).

Sincerley

Me Her

What is the legality regarding recording phone calls in Ireland? Do I have to tell him he is being recorded?

djimi

wobzilla1 wrote: »

What is the legality regarding recording phone calls in Ireland? Do I have to tell him he is being recorded?

Yes, otherwise you cannot use the recording for any legal means.