Peig Sayers

dj jarvis

shruikan2553 wrote: »

Those of us who dont care about it would be glad to stop the CPR and let it live or die by itself but sadly there are the irish speaking minority who demand that we should all be able to speak "our national language" and some others who say they wish they spoke it but never actually put in any effort to learn it.

so i take it you did not bother to read the thread either , the bit about being taught it in such a horribly and violent fashion? and not just me , but others of the same vintage , and the bit where i said i was sorry it was that way
you did read the thread didn't you ?

and not everyone is of your opinion - some so see the sheer stupidity of a nation not being able to speak it language , and for children to learn multiply languages from the start - its a win win situation.
but as i have already stated , some will argue the sky is black just becasue they can.

dj jarvis

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Why is the attitude of random people towards Irish any of your concern? I want my future children to be educated in English. You have no right to force your views on me.

if it is taken up by the state to educate via Irish , then im sure you will have the option to go to an English speaking only school , like the Irish speakers have to do at the moment

Irish is the FIRST and Official language of this country.
either teach it or get rid of it - still waiting for someone to point out a nation who cant speak their Official native language - i for one cant think of one

and right back at ya - you have no right to force you views on me,
i was forcing nothing , its call a suggestion and then debate,

down off your box now

dj jarvis

Canis Lupus wrote: »

Of course it's relevant. Even a schoolchild recognises the use of maths and English for everyday use, 3rd level education and finally practical application in a lot of jobs.

Resentment is caused by having to learn a language like Irish that has no use outside of the schoolroom.

it would if everyone spoke and used it - simple really

anyway , i have no idea why people are getting their knickers in a twist over this suggestion , it would not affect you , it would only kick in for school starters , and they wont have know any difference , so wont resent it or having to learn it

baffling people would have a problem with their children being able to speak and read 2 languages by the age of 7 - and doing so proficiently , not like how it is now , of how it was

I am not a fan of Ireland was a church ridden backward place before we got the internet or something like that, however some time you would wonder why on earth would any one think teenagers would be interested in a miserable book like Peig Sayers plus I don't think our standard of Irish was up to doing the book for a lot of us, which made it difficult for every one.

I think the book is so miserable its nearly a parody.

shruikan2553

dj jarvis wrote: »

so i take it you did not bother to read the thread either , the bit about being taught it in such a horribly and violent fashion? and not just me , but others of the same vintage , and the bit where i said i was sorry it was that way
you did read the thread didn't you ?

I did read the thread and agree it is taught badly but it is possible to learn things after secondary school.

dj jarvis wrote: »

and not everyone is of your opinion - some so see the sheer stupidity of a nation not being able to speak it language , and for children to learn multiply languages from the start - its a win win situation.
but as i have already stated , some will argue the sky is black just becasue they can.

Ireland has 2 languages, Irish and English, so we can all speak a language of this country. It is beneficial to be bilingual but 1.is it beneficial enough to be worth it and 2. why Irish? This is all about the benefits for the children, surely we should be trying to decide what language is the best for the children and not just defaulting to Irish.

dj jarvis

mariaalice wrote: »

I am not a fan of Ireland was a church ridden backward place before we got the internet or something like that, however some time you would wonder why on earth would any one think teenagers would be interested in a miserable book like Peig Sayers plus I don't think our standard of Irish was up to doing the book for a lot of us which made it difficult for every one.

I think the book is so miserable its nearly a parody.

i honestly think that is how they wanted us to see and feel about Ireland , downtrodden and depressed , what were they thinking in teaching the language the way they did - it just makes no sense at all

Rubeter

inocybe wrote: »

Absolutely, but those same educated and traveled people should be able to recognize that compulsion to learn a language, in the form of our current system, breeds a lot of resentment and outright hatred. By all means preserve the Irish language for the benefit of humanity, just get it off the exam curriculum for the benefit of my child's education.

Yea obviously, what the fuck has that got to do with me?
I'm not forcing anyone to do anything.

shruikan2553 wrote: »

I see language as a means of communication, if people enjoy languages then they are free to learn and practice them themselves. There is no need to force everyone into your hobby.

Fuck off!!! I'm not forcing anyone to do anything. Take that little issue you have with someone who gives a fuck.

If some people have problems with Irish being compulsory in school that is their problem, piss off and take it out with someone who can either do something about it or who gives a shit.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Rubeter wrote: »

Yea obviously, what the fuck has that got to do with me?
I'm not forcing anyone to do anything.


Fuck off!!! I'm not forcing anyone to do anything. Take that little issue you have with someone who gives a fuck.

If some people have problems with Irish being compulsory in school that is their problem, piss off and take it out with someone who can either do something about it or who gives a shit.

Well, nothing to do with you, but plenty to do with the children of Ireland and the Irish language - neither of whom benefits from the current system. I presume you have a vested interest in one of these or you wouldn't be posting here.

Rubeter

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Well, nothing to do with you, but plenty to do with the children of Ireland and the Irish language - neither of whom benefits from the current system. I presume you have a vested interest in one of these or you wouldn't be posting here.

I made my position quite clear.
All languages are special and worth preserving.

I'm not going to get involved in your little clusterfuck.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Rubeter wrote: »

I made my position quite clear.
All languages are special and worth preserving.

I'm not going to get involved in your little clusterfuck.

They are, yes, - no argument there -, and you already are.

It's whether or not compulsion and **** like Peig actually harms or hinders said preservation that's the question.

Rubeter

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

They are, yes, - no argument there -, and you already are.

No I'm not.

It's whether or not compulsion and **** like Peig actually harms or hinders said preservation that's the question.

And a good question it is.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Rubeter wrote: »

No I'm not.

And yet here we are...

And a good question it is.

I'm saying hinders, but will hear arguents to the contrary.

An Coilean

Canis Lupus wrote: »

Of course it's relevant. Even a schoolchild recognises the use of maths and English for everyday use, 3rd level education and finally practical application in a lot of jobs.

Resentment is caused by having to learn a language like Irish that has no use outside of the schoolroom.

Thats a valid point, but the reason you are citing for Irish being resented, is not the reason Awec was suggesting.

Awec was suggesting that Irish is resented because it is compulsory.

You are suggesting that it is resented because it is essentially useless, different argument.

Personally I don't believe there is any widespread resentment of Irish, I have never encountered it at least. I have come accross a handfull of people that have a significent problem with the language, but the vast vast majority have no problem with it at all.

Rubeter

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

And yet here we are...

Yep. Both agreeing languages are special and worth preserving.

I'm saying hinders, but will hear arguents to the contrary.

I'm sure you will find one around here if you hang around a while.

Hello.?????........... someone give the princess an argument before she loses her crown.

Rubeter

Rubeter wrote: »

No I'm not.

And a good question it is.

Thinking about it now I would say it was chosen because of a backward, rural, romantic, nationalist view of Ireland that the founder of the state were obsessed with, If any one is interested go and see the Pearce museum in St Enda park in Rathfarmn it is an eye opener and very interesting. Who were the people in the department of Education when the book was put on the curriculum some xenophobic Irish speaking nationalist.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Rubeter wrote: »

Yep. Both agreeing languages are special and worth preserving.

I'm sure you will find one around here if you hang around a while.

Hello.?????........... someone give the princess an argument before she loses her crown.

Ah, the crown is long since gone, never even got the chance to abdicate. The argument, however, has not yet arrived.

Rubeter

mariaalice wrote: »

Thinking about it now I would say it was chosen because of a backward, rural, romantic, nationalist view of Ireland that the founder of the state were obsessed with, If any one is interested go and see the Pearce museum in St Enda park in Rathfarmn it is an eye opener and very interesting. Who were the people in the department of Education when the book was put on the curriculum some xenophobic Irish speaking nationalist.

Actually the Blasket Islands give a better view.
Especially in a light drizzle.

Rubeter

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Ah, the crown is long since gone, never even got the chance to abdicate. The argument, however, has not yet arrived.

Soon my dear soon.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Rubeter wrote: »

Soon my dear soon.

That's what they all say... i however am going to bed, gnight

Rubeter

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

That's what they all say... i however am going to bed, gnight

Oiche mhaith agus codladh sámh.

Rubeter

Rubeter wrote: »

Actually the Blasket Islands give a better view.
Especially in a light drizzle.

The rain made every thing miserable that make sense, thats were all the notions of an Irish speaking rural back ward superstitious poverty stricken people came from I think Irish should stay a core subject just not the course we have now. The mass delusions of the founders of our state is funny.

dj jarvis

An Coilean wrote: »

Thats a valid point, but the reason you are citing for Irish being resented, is not the reason Awec was suggesting.

Awec was suggesting that Irish is resented because it is compulsory.

You are suggesting that it is resented because it is essentially useless, different argument.

Personally I don't believe there is any widespread resentment of Irish, I have never encountered it at least. I have come accross a handfull of people that have a significent problem with the language, but the vast vast majority have no problem with it at all.

and that i think is the key - if you asked the Irish population would they like from a certain date all subjects to be taught in Irish , having the outcome the same as in English , i doubt the answer would be no.

in makes little or no difference for people who have left school , and the ones starting would know no different anyway - have yet to hear a good reason why not , i don't have a hard on for this issue at all , but thinking about it , makes sense .

Rubeter

mariaalice wrote: »

The rain made every thing miserable that make sense, thats were all the notions of an Irish speaking rural back ward superstitious poverty stricken people came from I think Irish should stay a core subject just not the course we have now.

Good for you with the thinking, now off you go and have a chat with the department of education and tell them all about your thinkings.

The mass delusions of the founders of our state is funny.

Well they do say laughter is the best medicine.

I am serious about going to see the Pearce museum if you are seeking an understanding of the connection between the Irish language and nationalism. Despite the fact that I cant spell I had a very good education with excellent teachers ( except for the ones with mental health issues ) If you cant put the reason why someone should learn Irish in to context then you are never going to win the argument.

Irish needs to trow off its connecting to xenophobic nationalism if it is to prosper.

An Coilean

mariaalice wrote: »

Irish needs to trow off its connecting to xenophobic nationalism if it is to prosper.

I'm unaware of any such connection, perhaps you could cite some examples?

Rubeter

mariaalice wrote: »

Irish needs to trow off its connecting to xenophobic nationalism if it is to prosper.

Maybe it's you who need to do the throwing off if you are to see the language in its proper light.

An Coilean

An Coilean wrote: »

I'm unaware of any such connection, perhaps you could cite some examples?

Not now except for a few I mean when it was introduced after the founding of the state thats half the problem its baggage from history, its connection to good jobs in the civil services and so on. That the way it was thought to me "it would be good for getting a job in the civil services" I know its not the same today.

Rubeter

mariaalice wrote: »

Not now except for a few I mean when it was introduced after the founding of the state thats half the problem its baggage from history, its connection to good jobs in the civil services and so on. That the way it was thought to me "it would be good for getting a job in the civil services" I know its not the same today.

Would you make comments about the German language's baggage from history?
How does a language have "baggage" except in someones perception, and that is not an issue for the language, but it is for the person.

Really you don't think the Irish language ever had any connection to xenophobic Irish nationalism?

I like the Irish language and would manage a conversation in Irish if I was stuck, it has a great way of expressing meaning for example there is an Irish saying for a child born late in life to an older father that translate as..the last spark from the fire..I like that.

Rubeter

mariaalice wrote: »

Really you don't think the Irish language ever had any connection to xenophobic Irish nationalism?

Every language has a connection to the society that uses it and sometimes people from outside that society connect that language with a certain aspect of that society, for example for some English speakers French doesn't mean much more than garlic and escargot or German is forever linked with a certain right wing political party.
Who do you think has the actual problem here, the speakers of the languages or the people with the rather narrow view connected with the languages?

I have a certain view/feeling that will always remain deep in me with respect to the Irish language that is not representative of it as a whole, but I can see and understand that in myself and am aware that that is only me.
That view/feeling comes from drink, drugs, partying and playing music up and down the west coast of Ireland throughout my 20's and 30's so it might be a little different to the aspect you mention.

I like the Irish language and would manage a conversation in Irish if I was stuck, it has a great way of expressing meaning for example there is an Irish saying for a child born late in life to an older father that translate as..the last spark from the fire..I like that.