Heineken Cup: Edinburgh V Munster, Murrayfield, Saturday 12th October, 13:35

Fireball07

| | |
15 | Jack Cuthbert | 15 | Felix Jones
14 | Dougie Fife | 14 | Keith Earls
13 | Nick De Luca | 13 | Casey Laulala
12 | Matt Scott | 12 | James Downey
11 | Tim Visser | 11 | Simon Zebo
10 | Harry Leonard | 10 | Ian Keatley
9 | Greig Laidlaw (captain) | 9 | Conor Murray
1 | Alasdair Dickinson | 1 | Dave Kilcoyne
2 | Ross Ford | 2 | Mike Sherry
3 | William Nel | 3 | Stephen Archer
4 | Grant Gilchrist | 4 | Donnacha Ryan
5 | Sean Cox | 5 | Paul O'Connell (captain)
6 | Dimitri Basilaia | 6 | Paddy Butler
7 | Cornell Du Preez | 7 | Niall Ronan
8 | David Denton | 8 | James Coughlan
| Replacements | | Replacements
16 | Aleki Lutui | 16 | Damien Varley
17 | Lodewicus Blaauw | 17 | James Cronin
18 | Geoff Cross | 18 | BJ Botha
19 | Ollie Atkins | 19 | Donnacha O'Callaghan
20 | Roddy Grant | 20 | CJ Stander
21 | Sean Kennedy | 21 | Duncan Williams
22 | Joaquin Dominguez | 22 | JJ Hanrahan
23 | Sam Hidalgo-Clyne | 23 | Denis Hurley


Referee: JP Doyle (England)
Touch Judges: David Rose & Roy Maybank (England)
Fourth Official: Ted Coutts (Scotland)
TMO: Trevor Fisher (England)
Citing Commissioner: Yann Le Dore (France)

Heineken Cup Rugby Returns!!!!!

Edinburgh host Munster in Murrayfield for the opening Heineken Cup fixture for both these sides. With a lot of talk about the future of the competition, it must be a welcome relief for both sides to get back to actually playing rugby on the pitch, and the competition has been a great spectacle for many years, producing some great moments for both these sides.

This clash may not be one of those great matches. Edinburgh having struggled greatly since their exploits of 2011/2012, when they reached the semi-final, disposing of the mighty Toulouse along the way. Munster are still attempting to build back towards where they once were, and having reached the semi-final last year, will certainly be aiming to top this pool, and a try bonus point here against what would be seen as the weakest team in the pool would help them greatly along the way.

Munster will buoyed by their first victory over Leinster in five attempts and bar a blip against Treviso, have started the Pro12 season well and look to be a more assured side than this time last year. Edinburgh, on the other hand, have started poorly, their only victory a 3-point home win against the Dragons.

Captain Out, Butler In!

Munster's captain, Peter O'Mahony, picked up an injury in last week's victory over Leinster and so, is ruled out of this game, which causes the only real selection surprise for Munster. 22-year-old Paddy Butler is chosen at blindside flanker ahead of South African, CJ Stander, causing much speculation on the internet and elsewhere about whether Munster coach, Rob Penney, rates the former Bulls back row.

Elsewhere, Dave Kilcoyne gets the nod ahead of the hugely impressive James Cronin at loosehead prop, Stephen Archer holds onto the number 3 jersey, with experienced campaigner, BJ Botha on the bench. Conor Murray returns to the starting lineup after injury, Duncan Williams dropping to the bench, while the talisman, Paul O'Connell captains the side in the absence of O'Mahony.

Alan Solomons and Edinburgh made numerous signings in the close season in order to boost an Edinburgh squad who were pretty woeful in 2012/2013. In addition to having a relatively poor squad, they lost the likes of Nateni Talei, Richie Rees, Allan Jacobsen and John Yapp, so certainly needed reinforcements. Three of the newcomers (Jack Cuthbert, Alasdair Dickinson and Cornelius Du Preez) make the starting 15 with another 5 on the bench. Munster, on the other hand, have no newcomers in the starting 15.

Signs Favour Munster

While shocks can happen in sport, it is hard to see how Edinburgh can win this. They have a side dotted with good players, but lack any real sort of class, and Munster would seem to have an advantage in most areas of the pitch. Captain Greig Laidlaw is a talented player and will provide quick ball from the base, as well as decent accuracy from the tee but is unlikely to inspire the Edinburgh backline into a fantastic display. Tim Visser and Dougie Fife are both good finishers if given the opportunity, but there are question marks over their defensive side, while a centre partnership of De Luca and Scott is solid, if uninspirational.

Munster, on the other hand, seem to have more of a backline threat this year, no longer relying on the magic of Simon Zebo. Conor Murray at scrum-half has matured massively over the past 18 months and is now a key leader in the team and helps run the backline. Ian Keatley delivered a man-of-the-match performance against Leinster and is more of a running threat than veteran Ronan O'Gara. With Casey Laulala continuing his end-of-season form, and Keith Earls flying on the wing, Munster have a backline that can cause real damage. In fact it is Zebo who has struggled to find his form following the Lions tour, although Penney, Mannix, Foley and co. will be hoping a game against Edinburgh will help him rediscover his magic.

If Archer can continue his encouraging performances and give Munster a steady platform at the scrum, Munster shouldn't have any trouble here. Sherry and O'Connell are sure to give a strong platform at the lineout and in Butler, Coughlan and Kilcoyne, they have strong ball-carriers up front. And with the likes of Cronin, Botha, Stander and Hanrahan to unleash off the bench, Munster will hope to finish strongly.

Verdict

Barring a massive shock, Munster should ease to victory here. The only question is what the margin will be and whether they can manage to get a bonus point. With the majority of the boards population backing Munster at either -8 or -9, they will be hoping they manage a very comfortably victory :P

It seems likely that they will have the ability to rack up the tries they need, although they should be patient. The firepower provided by Laulala, Earls and Zebo, as well as the grunt up from provided by O'Connell, Ryan, Coughlan et al should allow Munster to collect 5 points from Murrayfield.



Munster by 17

thomond2006

Nice work!

Munster should really win this comfortably. See my rant in the team thread! :pac:

jamiedav2011

Jaysus 17 is a big shout!

Fireball07

Will Chambers

thomond2006 wrote: »

Nice work!

Munster should really win this comfortably. See my rant in the team thread! :pac:

Cheers! I think they should too

jamiedav2011 wrote: »

Jaysus 17 is a big shout!

I know.....but Sarries beat them 45-0 this time last year. They are poor, with a close to full-strength team out, we should beat them comfortably.




Forgot to give a shout out to ROG's favourite player, Sean Cox.....hopefully no handbags this year :pac:

Bassfish

Will Chambers

Getting up in 5 hours to head to the airport bound for Edinburgh, can't wait!

Mahatma Geansai

I don't think I'm as confident as everyone else; hopefully the feeling of complacency doesn't reach the squad. Should be a good win, but I worry we'll stutter to something like a 4 point victory.

CatFromHue

I don't see this as such a big one, or even a guaranteed win, for Munster.

On paper that's a much stronger team than Munster played last season.

Fireball07

Will Chambers

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

I don't think I'm as confident as everyone else; hopefully the feeling of complacency doesn't reach the squad. Should be a good win, but I worry we'll stutter to something like a 4 point victory.

That would bankrupt half of this forum :pac:


But seriously, I do have a few nerves about this.....I mean the weather conditions will play a part too. But really, I think we should be doing the business. With Murray back, it gives us an extra bit of control. I just can't see them breaking us down, and I expect us to get at least 2 tries. And if we're winning by 7+ with 10 minutes to go, we could run in a try or two at the end.

durkadurka

Reality check: embra are absolute gash. This season they've managed to beat the dragons at home, and that's it.

Anything less than a bp is a disappointment.

thomond2006

jamiedav2011 wrote: »

Jaysus 17 is a big shout!

It really shouldn't be, Edinburgh are woeful.

phog

I didn't see the game tonight but Connacht haven't been too hot this season yet could have pulled off a win in Galway. There are no gimmies in rugby.

Solomans has brought in a few players and if they click on the night they'll punish someone.

In saying that on recent form there should only be one result and that's a win for the visitors and hopefully a convincing win.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

I'm working tomorrow so I'm going to miss this. Very annoyed over that but hoping for a big win and kind of expecting it too. Munster abu

crasy dash

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

I'm working tomorrow so I'm going to miss this. Very annoyed over that but hoping for a big win and kind of expecting it too. Munster abu

Likewise im the same damn it ,hopefully munster win and dont make hard work of it

funtime93

Munster should really be targetting a bonus pount victory here.

Rightwing

Will Chambers

Fireball07 wrote: »

| | |

15 | Jack Cuthbert | 15 | Felix Jones
14 | Dougie Fife | 14 | Keith Earls
13 | Nick De Luca | 13 | Casey Laulala
12 | Matt Scott | 12 | James Downey
11 | Tim Visser | 11 | Simon Zebo
10 | Harry Leonard | 10 | Ian Keatley
9 | Greig Laidlaw (captain) | 9 | Conor Murray
1 | Alasdair Dickinson | 1 | Dave Kilcoyne
2 | Ross Ford | 2 | Mike Sherry
3 | William Nel | 3 | Stephen Archer
4 | Grant Gilchrist | 4 | Donnacha Ryan
5 | Sean Cox | 5 | Paul O'Connell (captain)
6 | Dimitri Basilaia | 6 | Paddy Butler
7 | Cornell Du Preez | 7 | Niall Ronan
8 | David Denton | 8 | James Coughlan
| Replacements | | Replacements
16 | Aleki Lutui | 16 | Damien Varley
17 | Lodewicus Blaauw | 17 | James Cronin
18 | Geoff Cross | 18 | BJ Botha
19 | Ollie Atkins | 19 | Donnacha O'Callaghan
20 | Roddy Grant | 20 | CJ Stander
21 | Sean Kennedy | 21 | Duncan Williams
22 | Joaquin Dominguez | 22 | JJ Hanrahan
23 | Sam Hidalgo-Clyne | 23 | Denis Hurley

Referee: JP Doyle (England)
Touch Judges: David Rose & Roy Maybank (England)
Fourth Official: Ted Coutts (Scotland)
TMO: Trevor Fisher (England)
Citing Commissioner: Yann Le Dore (France)

Heineken Cup Rugby Returns!!!!!

Edinburgh host Munster in Murrayfield for the opening Heineken Cup fixture for both these sides. With a lot of talk about the future of the competition, it must be a welcome relief for both sides to get back to actually playing rugby on the pitch, and the competition has been a great spectacle for many years, producing some great moments for both these sides.

This clash may not be one of those great matches. Edinburgh having struggled greatly since their exploits of 2011/2012, when they reached the semi-final, disposing of the mighty Toulouse along the way. Munster are still attempting to build back towards where they once were, and having reached the semi-final last year, will certainly be aiming to top this pool, and a try bonus point here against what would be seen as the weakest team in the pool would help them greatly along the way.

Munster will buoyed by their first victory over Leinster in five attempts and bar a blip against Treviso, have started the Pro12 season well and look to be a more assured side than this time last year. Edinburgh, on the other hand, have started poorly, their only victory a 3-point home win against the Dragons.

Captain Out, Butler In!

Munster's captain, Peter O'Mahony, picked up an injury in last week's victory over Leinster and so, is ruled out of this game, which causes the only real selection surprise for Munster. 22-year-old Paddy Butler is chosen at blindside flanker ahead of South African, CJ Stander, causing much speculation on the internet and elsewhere about whether Munster coach, Rob Penney, rates the former Bulls back row.

Elsewhere, Dave Kilcoyne gets the nod ahead of the hugely impressive James Cronin at loosehead prop, Stephen Archer holds onto the number 3 jersey, with experienced campaigner, BJ Botha on the bench. Conor Murray returns to the starting lineup after injury, Duncan Williams dropping to the bench, while the talisman, Paul O'Connell captains the side in the absence of O'Mahony.

Alan Solomons and Edinburgh made numerous signings in the close season in order to boost an Edinburgh squad who were pretty woeful in 2012/2013. In addition to having a relatively poor squad, they lost the likes of Nateni Talei, Richie Rees, Allan Jacobsen and John Yapp, so certainly needed reinforcements. Three of the newcomers (Jack Cuthbert, Alasdair Dickinson and Cornelius Du Preez) make the starting 15 with another 5 on the bench. Munster, on the other hand, have no newcomers in the starting 15.

Signs Favour Munster

While shocks can happen in sport, it is hard to see how Edinburgh can win this. They have a side dotted with good players, but lack any real sort of class, and Munster would seem to have an advantage in most areas of the pitch. Captain Greig Laidlaw is a talented player and will provide quick ball from the base, as well as decent accuracy from the tee but is unlikely to inspire the Edinburgh backline into a fantastic display. Tim Visser and Dougie Fife are both good finishers if given the opportunity, but there are question marks over their defensive side, while a centre partnership of De Luca and Scott is solid, if uninspirational.

Munster, on the other hand, seem to have more of a backline threat this year, no longer relying on the magic of Simon Zebo. Conor Murray at scrum-half has matured massively over the past 18 months and is now a key leader in the team and helps run the backline. Ian Keatley delivered a man-of-the-match performance against Leinster and is more of a running threat than veteran Ronan O'Gara. With Casey Laulala continuing his end-of-season form, and Keith Earls flying on the wing, Munster have a backline that can cause real damage. In fact it is Zebo who has struggled to find his form following the Lions tour, although Penney, Mannix, Foley and co. will be hoping a game against Edinburgh will help him rediscover his magic.

If Archer can continue his encouraging performances and give Munster a steady platform at the scrum, Munster shouldn't have any trouble here. Sherry and O'Connell are sure to give a strong platform at the lineout and in Butler, Coughlan and Kilcoyne, they have strong ball-carriers up front. And with the likes of Cronin, Botha, Stander and Hanrahan to unleash off the bench, Munster will hope to finish strongly.

Verdict

Barring a massive shock, Munster should ease to victory here. The only question is what the margin will be and whether they can manage to get a bonus point. With the majority of the boards population backing Munster at either -8 or -9, they will be hoping they manage a very comfortably victory :P

It seems likely that they will have the ability to rack up the tries they need, although they should be patient. The firepower provided by Laulala, Earls and Zebo, as well as the grunt up from provided by O'Connell, Ryan, Coughlan et al should allow Munster to collect 5 points from Murrayfield.



Munster by 17

Excellent preview, can't see a 17 point margin though.

Buer

thomond2006 wrote: »

It really shouldn't be, Edinburgh are woeful.

They are but it's the HEC and it's a clean slate for them. They'll be well up for it. I fully expect Munster to win but 17 points on the road is a big, big margin.

If Edinburgh manage to not disgrace themselves defensively, I think they'll make life awkward enough for 40-50 minutes.

phog

Buer wrote: »

They are but it's the HEC and it's a clean slate for them. They'll be well up for it. I fully expect Munster to win but 17 points on the road is a big, big margin.

If Edinburgh manage to not disgrace themselves defensively, I think they'll make life awkward enough for 40-50 minutes.

That's the issue, if Munster score an early try or two the floodgates could open but if it's a close game up to the last quarter of the game Munster could well start questioning themselves.

An away win is the important thing first and foremost, followed by a BP then the winning margin.

Reports from Edinburgh is it's a great day there and no late changes.

Rightwing

Will Chambers

Bookies have it at eight, i think that's a bit too generous toward munster.

Buer

Rightwing wrote: »

Bookies have it at eight, i think that's a bit too generous toward munster.

8 will be the smallest margin of defeat this season for them.

Rightwing

Will Chambers

Buer wrote: »

8 will be the smallest margin of defeat this season for them.

I'll be v surprised if they don't beat someone at home this year.

thomond2006

Bottom line: They haven't beaten a top tier team that had a first choice XV out since Toulouse almost 18 months ago.

There is no excuse for anything less than a comfortable victory. I'm sure Penney will have reminded them of that unsatisfactory result back in January.

danthefan

thomond2006 wrote: »

Bottom line: They haven't beaten a top tier team that had a first choice XV out since Toulouse almost 18 months ago.

There is no excuse for anything less than a comfortable victory. I'm sure Penney will have reminded them of that unsatisfactory result back in January.

They're seriously poor. I don't know why anyone is talking them up at all, Munster should be aiming for a BP win here.

Rightwing

Will Chambers

danthefan wrote: »

They're seriously poor. I don't know why anyone is talking them up at all, Munster should be aiming for a BP win here.

It would be extremely silly of Penney not to be talking them up. If things are going well, of course they should target the bonus point, but secure the win first.

Benny Cake

Anything less than a bonus point win will be hugely disappointing. Edinburgh are pure muck, rock bottom of the rabo, scoring 4 tries in 5 games. Thats not underestimating the opposition, its being realistic.....

danthefan

Rightwing wrote: »

It would be extremely silly of Penney not to be talking them up. If things are going well, of course they should target the bonus point, but secure the win first.

I'm not talking about Penney. I'm talking about the likes of you insisting they are any sort of difficult opposition.

Rightwing

Will Chambers

danthefan wrote: »

I'm not talking about Penney. I'm talking about the likes of you insisting they are any sort of difficult opposition.

Fair enough.

I could be wrong about them, but it's a new competiton for them and I don't think league form will count for much, time will tell.

CatFromHue

It's a cup competition. Edinburgh are only behind Connacht on points difference in the Rabo but gave Saracens, arguably a better more in form team than Munster, a right good game last night.

When I look at the Edinburgh back line I see good players and a better backline than they've put out so far this season. Equally their tight 5 is better than the tight 5 they put out against Munster last season in the HEC in a game Munster struggled to finish off.

Rightwing

Will Chambers

CatFromHue wrote: »

It's a cup competition. Edinburgh are only behind Connacht on points difference in the Rabo but gave Saracens, arguably a better more in form team than Munster, a right good game last night.

When I look at the Edinburgh back line I see good players and a better backline than they've put out so far this season. Equally their tight 5 is better than the tight 5 they put out against Munster last season in the HEC in a game Munster struggled to finish off.

That's the line I'm taking too, coupled with the fact that Munster are no clermont, in terms of having the capacity to put inferior teams to the sword.

Howard Juneau

Will Chambers

They have duPreez in the side, Matt Scott is back. It's not going to be a cakewalk, but we should win handily enough. A bp is a tough ask though

phog

A packed Murrayfield :-( just what BT sport will love. Saw on twitter Munster fans have been moved three times already as they're sitting on Edinburgh seats, you'd wonder what's going on there.


Anyway 20mins before KO.

G'wan Munster

thomond2006

phog wrote: »

A packed Murrayfield :-( just what BT sport will love. Saw on twitter Munster fans have been moved three times already as they're sitting on Edinburgh seats, you'd wonder what's going on there.


Anyway 20mins before KO.

G'wan Munster

When I was there in January there were reserved seats for Edinburgh STHs that we were moved away from. They were nearly all empty when we got there about half an hour before the game! :pac: No big deal being 'moved', it's not as if there's few places to choose from.

A home match away from home, we outnumbered the Edinburgh fans by at least 4:1. Fair play Munster fans, great travelling support as always.

Risteard

phog wrote: »

A packed Murrayfield :-( just what BT sport will love. Saw on twitter Munster fans have been moved three times already as they're sitting on Edinburgh seats, you'd wonder what's going on there.


Anyway 20mins before KO.

G'wan Munster

Edinburgh season ticket holders have assigned seats in one section, at least that's the way it was in January. Not really a big deal as it's one section and there's about 10000 other seats to choose from in that area.

P_1

On behalf of the lads with the wagers, G'wan Munster!!

thomond2006

P_1 wrote: »

On behalf of the lads with the wagers, G'wan Munster!!

I'll take Munster by 10 right now, cheers!

P.Walnuts

P_1 wrote: »

On behalf of the lads with the wagers, G'wan Munster!!

A 3 point win and Earls try would do me

awec

Are there any edinburgh fans there?

thomond2006

Sheahan commentating...

thomond2006

Hastings still calling POM Mahoney from Police Academy...

Fireball07

Will Chambers

Yay Frankie!

former legend

Will Chambers

Fireball07 wrote: »

Yay Frankie!

F**k.

Long afternoon ahead.

19543261

Munster

Everything will go terribly wrong for Munster. The singing birds this morning foretold it.

efb

Stuck earls to score 1st try
1st score to be a Munster try
Munster -12.5

Fireball07

Will Chambers

I have Munster -9 (a nice bit on that, please God let them win)

And Munster over 2.5 tries.

efb

Come on Munster!

Fireball07

Will Chambers

Poor from Keatley.

Anatidaephobia

Ah. Not good from Keatley.

Fireball07

Will Chambers

Scott gone through 2 gaps

19543261

Munster

Gorgeous plays by Scott, wow.

Anatidaephobia

Well that's a bit of a hiccup!

Fireball07

Will Chambers

Great start from Edinburgh!

awec

Great try by Edinburgh that.