Universal GP cards for under 5s

Mykola

Anybody else think its a joke that they are planning to bring this in, in the budget ? Surely existing Universal benifits should be abolished, not new ones coming in. It's bad enough that a couple over 70 on an income of 1200€ pw can have a medical card.

spank_inferno

It was an election promise to have universal GP care..

One of the reasons I voted for them.

So far they have only strong-armed the GPs into accepting it for the under-5s.

They have 3 years to deliver the rest.

Rightwing

Mykola wrote: »

Anybody else think its a joke that they are planning to bring this in, in the budget ? Surely existing Universal benifits should be abolished, not new ones coming in. It's bad enough that a couple over 70 on an income of 1200€ pw can have a medical card.

No, this is a good move. But they should target some of the benefits that are on the welfare.

woodoo

Mykola wrote: »

Anybody else think its a joke that they are planning to bring this in, in the budget ? Surely existing Universal benifits should be abolished, not new ones coming in. It's bad enough that a couple over 70 on an income of 1200€ pw can have a medical card.

I think it is crazy, its a recipe for clogged up GP practices with people running at the first sign of a sniffle. We should be aiming for a reasonable charge for all. Perhaps €5 per visit for Medical card holders, €10 for GP visit card holders and a max of €20 or €30 for anyone else.

At the moment it is unfair on private patients having to pay €60 or so to see a doctor and then people on medical cards getting it free. I don't quality for a Medical card or a GP visit card, i am over the guidelines by a relatively small amount. But i have to pay full wack to see a doctor.

Geuze

Yes, GP fees are too high in Irl.

Nothing should be totally free, that leaves it open to abuse.

5 or 10 euro GP fee, even if you have a med card, is an idea.

NIMAN

I would agree that if it was free it is abused.

I have experience of GP surgeries in NI, and they are bunged constantly, can't get an appt for a fortnight sometimes.

In RoI I can get an appt the next day (sometimes even the same day) because it costs €40 each visit. If something is free, its abused, end of.

But I would like to see a greatly reduced fee for working people for their kids, maybe €10? Scandalous that I have to pay €40 to take my 2 years old to the GP.

spank_inferno

NIMAN wrote: »

In RoI I can get an appt the next day (sometimes even the same day) because it costs €40 each visit.

Where?

Which part if Ireland has this ideal?

Try €55 with a 2 day wait...... (wicklow)

No Pants

NIMAN wrote: »

I have experience of GP surgeries in NI, and they are bunged constantly, can't get an appt for a fortnight sometimes.

Any idea why that would be? I haven't seen a GP in Northern Ireland since I was a child, but I have visited GPs in different parts of England in the last decade. Once registered, there was no delay in seeing a doctor.

johnnyskeleton

spank_inferno wrote: »

Where?

Which part if Ireland has this ideal?

Try €55 with a 2 day wait...... (wicklow)

http://www.gpnow.ie

€180 a year for an individual, or €1k for 10 years for a family unlimited GP visits.

That works out at €100 per year for two adults and 3 kids. Assuming one visit per adult and 2 per child, that's about €12 per go. However you pay upfront and that's always a difficult ask.

Thing about subsidising GP fees when they are in demand is that they raise their rates by roughly the amount you subsidise it by. Simply supply and demand. The only way to really reduce costs is to increase the supply of doctors. Good old fashioned competition.

Uriel.

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

http://www.gpnow.ie

€180 a year for an individual, or €1k for 10 years for a family unlimited GP visits.

That works out at €100 per year for two adults and 3 kids. Assuming one visit per adult and 2 per child, that's about €12 per go. However you pay upfront and that's always a difficult ask.

I am not so sure I'd be willing to stump that kind of cash for a 10 year agreement -Company may go out of business, GPs get sick/die too. It's quite a risk I would have thought...

Sleepy

I'd wonder if we'd see a corresponding reduction in numbers in Temple Street? The number of eejits I know who run to the hospital every time their child has a tummy bug is phenomenal...

jank

Well looks like this is going through and it is estimated to only cost 40 million a year, which seems a very low amount to me. I think this is going to be implemented very badly and expect certain GP's in some areas to cream it while also making very difficult to get an appointment. One can get free GP care here in Australia and there are some surgeries I would not send my dog to. If one wants to see a really good GP you go to a private clinic.

I wonder will it be capped to a max amount of free consultations once excessive rorting is discovered?

fl4pj4ck

in an ageing society government has to do everything it can to make people have kids

cson

That €40m is going to have be taken from somewhere else. Not sure that this is good.

professore

Uriel. wrote: »

I am not so sure I'd be willing to stump that kind of cash for a 10 year agreement -Company may go out of business, GPs get sick/die too. It's quite a risk I would have thought...

I agree with you. They have a monthly plan too. I'd go for this, but my wife will no way change GPs. So that's out.

serfboard

Sleepy wrote: »

I'd wonder if we'd see a corresponding reduction in numbers in Temple Street? The number of eejits I know who run to the hospital every time their child has a tummy bug is phenomenal...

Yep, I think that's also one of the factors driving this ... it's called "the primary care" strategy AKA "the get people out of hospitals who don't need to be there" strategy.

murphaph

Uriel. wrote: »

I am not so sure I'd be willing to stump that kind of cash for a 10 year agreement -Company may go out of business, GPs get sick/die too. It's quite a risk I would have thought...

Hmm, the only risk is not clocking up between 18~20 visits before the company goes bust. Each time you visit you knock 50/60 quid off the 1000 you paid if you see what I mean. Sure, you could be really unlucky and they fold the day after you sign up, but it can't be denied that the pricing is very attractive even for people who don't get sick very often (talking about the family rate there). If I moved back to Ireland with the family I'd probably take a chance on it tbh.

AlanG

This is great although I do agree that an across the board fee of €5 or €10 would be better. Currently about half of under 5s already get free GP so it is only middle class working people who regularly have to go through the moral dilemma of not bringing a seemingly sick child to the GP due to the ridicules costs involved. Kids get somewhat sick a lot and can’t say what is wrong so it is very worrying if you can’t afford a GP.

draiochtanois

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antoobrien

spank_inferno wrote: »

Which part if Ireland has this ideal?

Try €55 with a 2 day wait...... (wicklow)

Rang my doctor earlier in the summer at 2pm and was seen before 5.

Uriel.

murphaph wrote: »

Hmm, the only risk is not clocking up between 18~20 visits before the company goes bust. Each time you visit you knock 50/60 quid off the 1000 you paid if you see what I mean. Sure, you could be really unlucky and they fold the day after you sign up, but it can't be denied that the pricing is very attractive even for people who don't get sick very often (talking about the family rate there). If I moved back to Ireland with the family I'd probably take a chance on it tbh.

Ah you're probably right, I have only been to a GP once in the past 4.5 years (and even on that occasion it wasn't "completely" necessary), so I suppose I am looking at from a happy place.

I suppose if you had a husband, wife and 2 kids in the mix, you might get an RoI prety quickly alright.

carpejugulum

draiochtanois wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

unless you don't have children under 5

Also, half of under 5s already have a medical card, which is another shocking statistic.

firemansam4

So much worry on previous posts about doctors being over crowded by parents bringing there kids to the doctors with tummy bugs. Yet nobody seems concerned that some children might not be getting the proper medical attention they need because maybe there parents can barely keep up the mortgage repayments and might be barely above the medical card threshold?

The idea of a small 5 or 10 euro charge is a good idea though - it has worked with curtailing prescriptions with a small charge and would probably limit the abuse of the system.

maninasia

Only in Stockholm Syndrome Ireland would you get a debate about taxpayers getting something back for what they paid for, instead of funding others to enjoy luxuries that they don't enjoy!

NIMAN

spank_inferno wrote: »

Where?

Which part if Ireland has this ideal?

Try €55 with a 2 day wait...... (wicklow)

Inishowen, Donegal.

visual

Does a family already below a certian limit not already have their under fives on medical card.

So in effect we have given this to those who could afford to pay. Just like children's allowance.

I know there are many just above the threshold who wont qualify for family medical cards and I can see this as a plus.

But it also means those who earn over 100k will have yet another perk when we are broke and chrildren still go to school hungry

NIMAN

No Pants wrote: »

Any idea why that would be? I haven't seen a GP in Northern Ireland since I was a child, but I have visited GPs in different parts of England in the last decade. Once registered, there was no delay in seeing a doctor.

My experience is based on Derry, where I am still registered to my GP, as I pay tax in NI.

My surgery is the biggest in the city, and its always rammed. Can take you a fortnight to get to see a GP. It is the largest surgery in Derry city afaik.

Why do I think its like this?
Personally because Derry has a rep for being a very ill city. Lot of people on the sick and a lot of people on DLA/Mobility etc. If you can keep being sick it keeps getting you your benefits and not having to loo for work. I would say that a lot of people attending GPs in Derry are on the sick, suffering depression of some sort or scam. Hard to say, but probably true.

TheBoffin

When a service is offered for free, it is generally open to abuse. Yes the free GP card for under 5's is a great idea and welcomed, but not for free, even a reduced charge of €10 per visit would deter a time waster from a genuine patient.

NIMAN

Yeah I'd agree totally with that.

I found €40 was too much, but I'd pay €10 (or even €20) if I thought it would allow me to get a quick appt.

jank

Everyone should pay something.

super_furry

Absolute nonsense and all at the same time when they're taking medical cards off terminally ill people and increasing monthly prescription charges by €100.

km79

TheBoffin wrote: »

When a service is offered for free, it is generally open to abuse. Yes the free GP card for under 5's is a great idea and welcomed, but not for free, even a reduced charge of €10 per visit would deter a time waster from a genuine patient.

I have 2 children.one under 5. But I'd totally agree with this.

RobFowl

jank wrote: »

Everyone should pay something.

They do, it's called Tax...

jank

RobFowl wrote: »

They do, it's called Tax...

Not everyone pays income tax and the idea that one can have unlimited free GP care with no cost associated is just stupid.

Geuze

They do in the UK.

average_runner

Alot of GP's will back out of this. They wont want their surgery packed so that people cant get an appointment on the day when the kid is sick.

Our GP doesn't accept medical card, but if he says appointment is at 11, its 11 and not 12. Have two kids under 3 but wont use this system.

People will abuse this system now.

antoobrien

RobFowl wrote: »

They do, it's called Tax...

jank wrote: »

Not everyone pays income tax and the idea that one can have unlimited free GP care with no cost associated is just stupid.

Geuze wrote: »

They do in the UK.

Tax posts & comments like these three and we wouldn't need income tax :rolleyes:

Geuze the UK system works so well that they're sending patients abroad to get treated.

jank does have a point though, no service should be totally free. A very simple example of this is the free newspapers we see given out in Dublin. Thrown around the place like confetti. How often do you see one of the paid for newspapers left around on the dart? Not nearly as often.

The child has a sniffle, doctor. The child's temperature is 37 Celsius, A&E.

That second one is normal.

RobFowl

jank wrote: »

Not everyone pays income tax and the idea that one can have unlimited free GP care with no cost associated is just stupid.

Everyone pays VAT and many other taxes as well even if they don't pay income tax.

creedp

TheBoffin wrote: »

When a service is offered for free, it is generally open to abuse. Yes the free GP card for under 5's is a great idea and welcomed, but not for free, even a reduced charge of €10 per visit would deter a time waster from a genuine patient.

So why don't people lobby the politicians when they come around for the local elections to introduce a €5/€10 charge for medicalcard holders- even capped at €50/€100 per year per family to protect families with significant illnesses? After all 40% of the population already have free GP services - a bit of a money spinner there to held fill in the void!

Bacchus

I think this is a joke of an idea from the government. A very obvious popular move with a lot of young families out there (wasn't there a baby boom in the last few years). This will do nothing more than clog up GPs with parents bringing their child in for every runny nose and scratched knee. As others have posted, if it's free, it will be abused.

It smacks of an half brained idea that wasn't given a second thought. I would think a subsidised scheme would have been better. Something like €10 for a GP visit. That way, you reduce the risk of abuse of the system. Also, they could then have extended it to a higher age. Surely €10 per visit for all kids under 8-10 year olds would be better than a blanket free visit for all under 5's?

Don't get me wrong, it's great to see something given back, particularly to young families who may be struggling but I don't think they really thought this through and a more practical solution could have been found that would have benefited more families.

Truman Burbank

http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/health/i-love-this-for-the-peace-of-mind-it-gives-you-29630698.html

draiochtanois

This post has been deleted.

No Pants

Truman Burbank wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/health/i-love-this-for-the-peace-of-mind-it-gives-you-29630698.html

I hope the Indo got paid for that ad.

murphaph

RobFowl wrote: »

They do, it's called Tax...

Apart from the fact that not everyone pays tax the purpose of a nominal fee to see a GP would be to discourage time wasters who only have a sniffle.

In Germany they introduced a token charge (€10 per quarter, nothing if you don't see a doctor or dentist in the quarter) to curb this carry on and then (in a populist move abolished it this year....being an election year and all that )

In short, every resident should have a "medical card" but there should be a token payment required for all card holders to see a GP unless they are diagnosed with a chronic condition.

Truman Burbank

No Pants wrote: »

I hope the Indo got paid for that ad.

That was the sub-section. Herein lies the ad!
http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/health/how-patients-sick-of-costly-doctor-bills-can-now-save-on-a-gp-scheme-29630694.html

Minister Brian Hayes: "We need to take pressure away from A&E acute hospital settings and we need to put more pressure on community health care and primary health care." Does anyone know who is gonna staff this? I mistakenly thought the 24-hour shifts were being phased out, not in.

gallag

NIMAN wrote: »

I would agree that if it was free it is abused.

I have experience of GP surgeries in NI, and they are bunged constantly, can't get an appt for a fortnight sometimes.

In RoI I can get an appt the next day (sometimes even the same day) because it costs €40 each visit. If something is free, its abused, end of.

But I would like to see a greatly reduced fee for working people for their kids, maybe €10? Scandalous that I have to pay €40 to take my 2 years old to the GP.

I phoned my surgery yesterday and seen the doc 50 mins later, thats in Antrim, N.I. no charge, free script job done.

creedp

gallag wrote: »

I phoned my surgery yesterday and seen the doc 50 mins later, thats in Antrim, N.I. no charge, free script job done.

Compare that to €100 a year (2 6 month prescriptions) and up to €1,800 a year in prescribed medication costs on the DPS here - no country for sick middle income men [or women!!]

mkdon05

I have to laugh at all the posters suggesting the surgerys will be clogged up because children will be brought in for every little "Sniffle". Get a bleeding grip, who is going to waste there time going to the doctor if a kid has a cold and can't be prescribed anything!
Although if by sniffle you mean a child who is lethargic with a sky high temperature with a runny nose, I think it's fair enough to get that checked out!

No Pants

Truman Burbank wrote: »

That was the sub-section. Herein lies the ad!
http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/health/how-patients-sick-of-costly-doctor-bills-can-now-save-on-a-gp-scheme-29630694.html

And to think that a journalist put her name to that churned press release.

draiochtanois

This post has been deleted.