Joseph O'Brien breaks Mick Kinane's record

UrbanSea

Of most winners in a flat season in Ireland 116.

Not bad for a fella who can't ride apparently.

How many posts before someone says their granny would have won on 100 of them? Clueless

TheFarrier

Joseph is undoubtedly a talented pilot, I've thought that this long time.

Only thing I might say is would he have broken that record or ridden so many high profile winners on horses of the calibre he has so early on in his career if he wasn't Aidan's son.
I doubt it.
Not saying anything against the man, or his riding, like I say I'd call him a serious reinsman. He's just in a very fortunate position to be able make the most of his talent.

UrbanSea

No doubt he wouldn't be on the horses if he wasnt Aidan's son that doesn't bother me. What I laugh at is the people who says he can't ride a horse.

If he wasnt able to ride Coolmore wouldn't be putting him up. Magnier's godson was deemed surplus to requirements, he would have no qualms in getting rid of Joseph if he didn't think he was good enough

NaiveMelodies

TheFarrier wrote: »

Joseph is undoubtedly a talented pilot, I've thought that this long time.

Only thing I might say is would he have broken that record or ridden so many high profile winners on horses of the calibre he has so early on in his career if he wasn't Aidan's son.
I doubt it.
Not saying anything against the man, or his riding, like I say I'd call him a serious reinsman. He's just in a very fortunate position to be able make the most of his talent.

Does it need to brought up every time?


Don't think you appreciate the hard work that goes into becoming a record breaking pilot, no matter who you have behind you.
Are you assuming because of who is father is he automatically keeps weight and works his bollix off, it all just happens and falls into place?

He wouldn't be put up on these huge money spinners by very successful businessman if he wasn't good enough.
Fortunate or not, how **** must it feel when people are doubting your worthiness when you continue to bang out winner after winner after winner because your father happens to be who he is?

Also, he's a rider who never ducks blame for what he perceives to be his bad rides- e.g. Camelot.

Do you have to be a slumdog or have a sob story to be truly recognized as world class?

PS- Delighted for him.

TheFarrier

only1stevo wrote: »

Does it need to brought up every time?


Don't think you appreciate the hard work that goes into becoming a record breaking pilot, no matter who you have behind you.
Are you assuming because of who is father is he automatically keeps weight and works his bollix off, it all just happens and falls into place?

He wouldn't be put up on these huge money spinners by very successful businessman if he wasn't good enough.
Fortunate or not, how **** must it feel when people are doubting your worthiness when you continue to bang out winner after winner after winner because your father happens to be who he is?

Also, he's a rider who never ducks blame for what he perceives to be his bad rides- e.g. Camelot.

Do you have to be a slumdog or have a sob story to be truly recognized as world class?

PS- Delighted for him.

Knew I was gonna get tackled for this. :-)

I never said he wasn't good enough or that he wasn't putting in the hard work required. I know all too well what it takes to even get a ride on the track, let alone get put up on some of the finest horses on the planet.
I also know of the work that goes into maintaining the weight required to race ride, and I can only imagine the hardship Joseph faces to be able ride on the flat being as tall as he is.
My point was that there are dozens of other top notch young jockeys with the talent, drive and work ethic to succeed to the heights that young o Brien has, yet might not make it, yet Joseph had the backing of one of the greatest trainers in Europe which I'm sure helped .
Obviously Aiden couldn't have put Joseph up if he wasn't good enough, or if the owners didn't think he was. The fact remains that he is good enough, the owners saw that he is, and this surely contributed to his success.
You can't say that Joseph's position as the son of coolmores trainer didn't contribute to his success.

I'm not for one second begrudging Joseph his success. God knows he deserves it and has put in the graft.

NaiveMelodies

TheFarrier wrote: »

Knew I was gonna get tackled for this. :-)

I never said he wasn't good enough or that he wasn't putting in the hard work required. I know all too well what it takes to even get a ride on the track, let alone get put up on some of the finest horses on the planet.
I also know of the work that goes into maintaining the weight required to race ride, and I can only imagine the hardship Joseph faces to be able ride on the flat being as tall as he is.
My point was that there are dozens of other top notch young jockeys with the talent, drive and work ethic to succeed to the heights that young o Brien has, yet might not make it, yet Joseph had the backing of one of the greatest trainers in Europe which I'm sure helped .
Obviously Aiden couldn't have put Joseph up if he wasn't good enough, or if the owners didn't think he was. The fact remains that he is good enough, the owners saw that he is, and this surely contributed to his success.
You can't say that Joseph's position as the son of coolmores trainer didn't contribute to his success.

I'm not for one second begrudging Joseph his success. God knows he deserves it and has put in the graft.

Fair enough and I didn't mean to seem tetchy but in all sports and all walks, there are plenty of talented individuals who don't get chances unfortunately.

Rarely has one taken their fortunate position in sport and used it so successfully!!

Harry Angstrom

To paraphrase Eamon Dunphy, "He's a good jockey, not a great jockey".

Morgans

Yeah. Its good to see that fewer are having the betting-shop pocket-talking reaction to him. There are better jockeys riding, there are some better jockeys who will not get the opportunities he has. But for 19, he is a class act in all ways, but especially out of the saddle. In his dealing with the press, in putting to the back of his mind the number of people waiting for him to fail so they can sneer. Never once complaining about the bitching and moaning about him. Always polite even when he has a right to be in foul humour, grateful, seems to have the craic with other jocks, and a very good jockey. Will only improve as he gets more confident in himself, if he can continue to win the fight with his weight. 6 classics by 19 years old.

Slattsy

He's very good from the front i have to say. Great judge of pace.
I do be cursing him when i see him out the back though, as there have been quite a few occasions he's left it too late.

Seems a nice lad, good head on him.
I can see him taking over the training duties after his Father too.

brandon_flowers

He is completely a victim of his own success because of who he is. Murtagh, Fallon and Spencer all had better ammunition at the time than Ballydoyle have now and they didn't break Mick Kinane's record. They have only won something like 6 or 7 Group 1's this year, they won 23 in 2008!

I think Coolmore have a lot of faith in him because he works so hard just like his father. In any interview he speaks about "Mr Magnier and Mr Smith etc". He knows they are the boss and if he ****s it up then his father will be siding with the boss and not with him.

I also think a lot of the negative attitude towards him comes from residual pocket-talk when he started out and was beaten on a few strong favourites and the whole "he isn't good enough, wouldn't ride a rocking horse etc" was thrown around between the couches and coffee machines in Boyelsports.

HigginsJ

Delighted for him. As others have said he always handles himself so well in the media. He is a young jockey so there will still be mistakes from time to time as he continues to learn but this is an unreal achievement.

He must be under savage pressure considering it is one of (if not the most) high profile jobs in racing & he takes it all in his stride.

premierstone

Great achievement and absolutely delighted for the lad, like others have alluded to who he is and who his father is, is as much of a hindrance as it is a benefit and he is an exceptionally talented pilot.

shamdrog63

Joseph certainly inherited his fathers humility and his achievement or work ethic cannot be knocked but I wonder if Gary Carroll or Ben Curtis who shared the apprentice title with Joseph without having the vast Coolmore resources behind them would also have broken records given the same opportunities.

premierstone

shamdrog63 wrote: »

Joseph certainly inherited his fathers humility and his achievement or work ethic cannot be knocked but I wonder if Gary Carroll or Ben Curtis who shared the apprentice title with Joseph without having the vast Coolmore resources behind them would also have broken records given the same opportunities.

Who knows, but it is completely irrelevant, they didnt and they also never had to deal with all the expectation and pressure of being who he is and the inevitable consequences of the masses waiting for him to fail.

walrusgumble

TheFarrier wrote: »

Joseph is undoubtedly a talented pilot, I've thought that this long time.

Only thing I might say is would he have broken that record or ridden so many high profile winners on horses of the calibre he has so early on in his career if he wasn't Aidan's son.
I doubt it.
Not saying anything against the man, or his riding, like I say I'd call him a serious reinsman. He's just in a very fortunate position to be able make the most of his talent.

Do you think that he would be ridding on those horses if he was not capable of doing so? Surely the Magniers would demand a different jockey if Joey messed up to many times. Jamie Spencer was a hot young jockey with them and he was let go (I note that you make it clear that Joey's talent is undoubted - I also note that you simply said, he might not have achieved it so early - fair point)

I see where you are coming from though, they are many top young jockeys in English racing, who , if given the chance, would be just as good. Barzolona and De Sousa (who do get their chances) are a good example, James Doyle will be an excellent champion some day (getting his chances) and who knows how Osin Murphy might do?In Ireland, you got young/youngish guys like Chris Hayes and Shane Folely and of course Wayne Lordan

Joey is lucky though, at such a young age, he is getting the chance (your point) Not everyone is a Lester Piggot. Even Moore and Hughes needed time to mature.

meriwether

I very much enjoy his interviews where he thanks 'Mr and Mrs Magnier, Mr and Mrs Smyth and Mr and Mrs Tabor', sometimes twice.

Seems like a nice lad, best of luck to him.

shamdrog63

premierstone wrote: »

Who knows, but it is completely irrelevant, they didnt and they also never had to deal with all the expectation and pressure of being who he is and the inevitable consequences of the masses waiting for him to fail.

You missed my point premierstone, which is, that even with infinitely more resourses Joseph couldn,t beat Carroll or Curtis to the apprentice ch,ship and only drew level with them in the last days of the season which would indicate that he wasn,t an exceptional talent.I can,t see how being on the best horse in the race (and knowing it) puts any undo pressure on a person.Undoubtedly he has improved immensely since those days but not in the Moore,Hughes,Murtagh league yet.

premierstone

shamdrog63 wrote: »

I can,t see how being on the best horse in the race (and knowing it) puts any undo pressure on a person.Undoubtedly he has improved immensely since those days but not in the Moore,Hughes,Murtagh league yet.

Why didn't Johnny Murtagh, Kieran Fallon or Jamie Spencer break all sorts of records when they had the same job, and if you don't think that been top jockey for Coolmore at 19 is pressure Id love to know what is!

walrusgumble

TheFarrier wrote: »

Knew I was gonna get tackled for this. :-)

I never said he wasn't good enough or that he wasn't putting in the hard work required. I know all too well what it takes to even get a ride on the track, let alone get put up on some of the finest horses on the planet.
I also know of the work that goes into maintaining the weight required to race ride, and I can only imagine the hardship Joseph faces to be able ride on the flat being as tall as he is.
My point was that there are dozens of other top notch young jockeys with the talent, drive and work ethic to succeed to the heights that young o Brien has, yet might not make it, yet Joseph had the backing of one of the greatest trainers in Europe which I'm sure helped .
Obviously Aiden couldn't have put Joseph up if he wasn't good enough, or if the owners didn't think he was. The fact remains that he is good enough, the owners saw that he is, and this surely contributed to his success.
You can't say that Joseph's position as the son of coolmores trainer didn't contribute to his success.

I'm not for one second begrudging Joseph his success. God knows he deserves it and has put in the graft.

Intitially, yes, spot on. They are many talented Irish Jockeys out there, Foley, Lordan and Hayes who could fit the bill too. Being a champion Jockey at such a young age would require alot of luck and a brilliant team (some older heads can win on ****ty horses and would be more trust worthy than the young bucks)

However, (and I hear your point, young lads in England would never get a smell of a Group 1, unless they were called De Sousa, Barzalona or Doyle) it takes a lot for Joey (and you acknowledged this) to continue to dominate and not make too many mistakes

O'Briens horse are beatable on a given day. If Joey was regularly cocking up, it would not be long before Magnier would insist on a new jockey.

Also, would any other jockey win as many races if they were not racing for Coolmore? The same could be said about many jockeys who raced for Coolmore at a young age . ( Murtagh of course had time with Oxx before Coolmore, Fallon was already King before going therer ) Look at what happened to hot young thing, Jamie Spencer.

The best Jockeys get the best horses. Lester Piggot would do anything to ensure that he got the best ride even if it meant jockey and rining up an owner to dismiss the stable jockey

walrusgumble

premierstone wrote: »

Why didn't Johnny Murtagh, Kieran Fallon or Jamie Spencer break all sorts of records when they had the same job, and if you don't think that been top jockey for Coolmore at 19 is pressure Id love to know what is!

That is a great point Joey can forever point out to the haters. Also , many might agree, those brilliant jockeys had a better selection of horses to choose from, and the classic generations were superior

Spencer went on to win a UK Championship thereafter, thus proving he had some substance.

As for Johnny..... some dude

People need to also remember, even with having Europe's best horses, winning the Breeders Cups are tough (travel, time of year, location) . Joey has done it with OBrien Horses (so has Moore)

walrusgumble

meriwether wrote: »

I very much enjoy his interviews where he thanks 'Mr and Mrs Magnier, Mr and Mrs Smyth and Mr and Mrs Tabor', sometimes twice.

Seems like a nice lad, best of luck to him.

He does it for every win he gets and when interviewed. Few do it

You would swear by now that he wouldn't have to do so, he is a champion jockey and has won big things in England and the US. He has a brain and is more than worthy to race.

If Jamie Spencer had the skills at Joey's age, would be be thanking them every time.....?

Harry Angstrom

premierstone wrote: »

Why didn't Johnny Murtagh, Kieran Fallon or Jamie Spencer break all sorts of records when they had the same job, and if you don't think that been top jockey for Coolmore at 19 is pressure Id love to know what is!

I like Joseph. He seems like a very pleasant guy and appears to be a gentleman, just like his dad, but trying to put him in the same bracket as Johnny Murtagh is plain wrong. Joseph will never be in the same league as Johnny Murtagh.

brandon_flowers

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

I like Joseph. He seems like a very pleasant guy and appears to be a gentleman, just like his dad, but trying to put him in the same bracket as Johnny Murtagh is plain wrong. Joseph will never be in the same league as Johnny Murtagh.

Murtagh had serious alcohol problems when he was only 22. That was the year before Joseph O'Brien was born so to be comparing the two now and what they have achieved is absolutely crazy. Murtagh has a 20 year advantage.

Harry Angstrom

brandon_flowers wrote: »

Murtagh had serious alcohol problems when he was only 22. That was the year before Joseph O'Brien was born so to be comparing the two now and what they have achieved is absolutely crazy. Murtagh has a 20 year advantage.

I'm not comparing what they have achieved. I'm saying that Johnny is one of the greatest jockeys that Ireland has ever produced. I don't think the same thing will ever be said about Joseph.

hucklebuck

I like Joseph a lot, any little mistake he makes get serious scrutiny. The lad is a very good jockey and I am happy for him, for me it's just a shame he took Kinane's record.

Even when that complete turd Rishi came over to him after the St Ledger and first thing he says is "Does that make up for Camelot?" Joseph just said "No", well played young man.

brandon_flowers

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

I'm not comparing what they have achieved. I'm saying that Johnny is one of the greatest jockeys that Ireland has ever produced. I don't think the same thing will ever be said about Joseph.

How can you say that when he is 20 years of age? If you are that good at predictions I'll have the lotto numbers and the winner of the Grand National please.

premierstone

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

I like Joseph. He seems like a very pleasant guy and appears to be a gentleman, just like his dad, but trying to put him in the same bracket as Johnny Murtagh is plain wrong. Joseph will never be in the same league as Johnny Murtagh.

I wasn't in anyway comparing them, the reference to Murtagh was to illustrate that just because you are the number one jockey for Coolmore it does not guarantee that you will ride winner after winner as another poster had suggested.

walrusgumble

brandon_flowers wrote: »

How can you say that when he is 20 years of age? If you are that good at predictions I'll have the lotto numbers and the winner of the Grand National please.

There was no direct comparison made about Murtagh.

The poster was clearly pointing out that we did not suggest Murtagh or Fallon only got their wins simply by riding Coolmoree horses (obviously even they ran huge winners with other trainers before and after coolmore) if it was as simple as that they would have broken the record earlier. It is difficult. The point of raising these former Coolmore Multiple champion jockeys (Fallon n Murtagh will go down as two of the Best modern day jockeys in Britain and Ireland) was to show how significant Joeys feat is.It was not a diss at Fallon or Murtagh or even a suggestion that Joey was better.

Yet, when Joey does achieve good results many go on about how he is there because of who he is.

To say anyone could ride Coolmore horses is laughable. They are not that consistent that they will win every race. Far from it. No jockey goes through a season with 25-30% strike rate. What O'Brien has done was an great achievement and richly deserved.

News flash, many jockeys are in with trainers. or often related via marriages to trainers daughters (eg Richard Hughes and Ms Hannon or Kevin Manning and Ms Bolger) so Wha Joey is repeated, like Manning and Hughes they are good jockeys on their own ground.

brandon_flowers

walrusgumble wrote: »

There was no direct comparison made about Murtagh.

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

I'm not comparing what they have achieved. I'm saying that Johnny is one of the greatest jockeys that Ireland has ever produced. I don't think the same thing will ever be said about Joseph.

That is a direct comparison no matter what way you twist it.

Johner

Joesph won't have the chance to be compared to jockeys like Murtagh, he's struggling with the weight and I can't see him lasting to much longer as a flat jockey.

premierstone

Johner wrote: »

Joesph won't have the chance to be compared to jockeys like Murtagh, he's struggling with the weight and I can't see him lasting to much longer as a flat jockey.

Unfortunately I have to agree, I would imagine Joseph will eventually have to do a Graham Lee in reverse and switch codes as it will just become too much of a slog and it will take its toll on him.

Harry Angstrom

premierstone wrote: »

Unfortunately I have to agree, I would imagine Joseph will eventually have to do a Graham Lee in reverse and switch codes as it will just become too much of a slog and it will take its toll on him.

I doubt he'll become a jump jockey. He's got too much sense and money for that.

premierstone

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

I doubt he'll become a jump jockey. He's got too much sense and money for that.

It's not about money for him, the lad clearly loves the game and the buzz, would be a nice steping stone for him to the training game aswell.

tipptom

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

I doubt he'll become a jump jockey. He's got too much sense and money for that.

When his mother and father are top NH trainers in Ireland and England Joseph will be he man onboard.

aidan24326

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

I'm not comparing what they have achieved. I'm saying that Johnny is one of the greatest jockeys that Ireland has ever produced. I don't think the same thing will ever be said about Joseph.

Maybe not, but in fairness to him he has done really well so far and has handled the pressure and constant scrutiny really well. Gets way too much stick for my liking. He comes across as a nice down to earth young lad who hasn't let the success go to his head and has taken on one of the highest profile riding jobs in Europe at an unusually young age and for the most part done exceptionally well. Credit where it's due at this stage.

tipptom

He seems to be extremely well schooled by Aidan in relation to manners and decorum of the old school down to being a carbon copy of Aidan and that's no bad thing.
I was in England when Aidan o B was riding in Ireland so I don't know much about him as a race rider but AP McCoy says he was the one to ride any difficult horses in Bolgers yard.
Joeseph obviously has picked up natural ability through his pedigree and riding work with the top riders in the world as a younger lad at home must have been a fantastic advantage.
He has a nice pair of hands,sits very quietly on them and is cool and doesn't panic when it gets down to it.Any rides where he has mucked up can be put down with the best of them mucking it up, but Josephs is going to be naturally more highlighted.

Saying that,I was flabbergasted when I heard Magnier was going to let him ride his horses and not go for a more experienced jockey but its gone pretty well for them,but he surley dosent have a retainer agreement with them?.

walrusgumble

premierstone wrote: »

It's not about money for him, the lad clearly loves the game and the buzz, would be a nice steping stone for him to the training game aswell.

I can't see him going into training immediately. Why would he? If he loves racing of both codes, (he said he would try jumps) bearing in mind his dad still is fond of the NH, why the hell would be leave it without giving it a right good crack at it? Like football, I can't imagine coaching ever replacing the buzz of participating.

It is mind blowing however, the gap in the prize money for some major jumps races compared to the more profitable flat pattern races.(Why, it is not like NH is unpopular in Britian and Ireland, and Bookies take in just as much dosh as it does in the flats) Luckily O'Brien has made a shed load of dosh so far and has a good family behind him.

walrusgumble

aidan24326 wrote: »

Maybe not, but in fairness to him he has done really well so far and has handled the pressure and constant scrutiny really well. Gets way too much stick for my liking. He comes across as a nice down to earth young lad who hasn't let the success go to his head and has taken on one of the highest profile riding jobs in Europe at an unusually young age and for the most part done exceptionally well. Credit where it's due at this stage.

If O'Brien goes to the jumps and can achieve half of what he has so far achieved in flat racing; well then, that achievement along with the flats will put him not too far away from the great Johnny Murtagh .

Funny, we seem to forget Fallon, Kinane, Dunwoody (jumps - Northie) McCoy (Northie), Swan (jumps)when the discussion of greatest Irish Jockeys comes up - Still , it is insane what Murtagh has achieved so far, and not all of it was achieved at Ballydoyle , so no nonsense about "ah if he ran with other yards...". Sincerely hope he gives the notions of retirement a miss for another season

shamdrog63

I don,t think Ballydoyle has ever been as dominant in Irish racing and AOB does like to indulge his prodgeny as he gone back to having runners in bumpers to facilitate his daughter.Maybe he,s going to return to the good old days when he also ruled the jumps scene so he can pamper Joseph when he,s too big for sitting on steering jobs on the flat.

anuprising

two of the most successful jump jockeys of all time started out as flat jockeys ,McCoy and swan .

walrusgumble

shamdrog63 wrote: »

I don,t think Ballydoyle has ever been as dominant in Irish racing and AOB does like to indulge his prodgeny as he gone back to having runners in bumpers to facilitate his daughter.Maybe he,s going to return to the good old days when he also ruled the jumps scene so he can pamper Joseph when he,s too big for sitting on steering jobs on the flat.

I find it very hard to believe that Aidan O'Brien would not pay some attention to training some NH horses. It was in his blood. And, if Joseph goes to that side , that would probably make it more tempting. Surely O'Brien is capable of doing some NH training with the flats?

I wonder would Magnier consider in some small investments on a few horsies for the NH (I know that it is a different league) but sure, it would be pocket money for him.

premierstone

shamdrog63 wrote: »

I don,t think Ballydoyle has ever been as dominant in Irish racing and AOB does like to indulge his prodgeny as he gone back to having runners in bumpers to facilitate his daughter.Maybe he,s going to return to the good old days when he also ruled the jumps scene so he can pamper Joseph when he,s too big for sitting on steering jobs on the flat.

You are either talking through your pocket or somewhere very near your pocket, I'm thinking probably a little bit of Column A and a little bit of Column B :rolleyes:

tipptom

walrusgumble wrote: »

I find it very hard to believe that Aidan O'Brien would not pay some attention to training some NH horses. It was in his blood. And, if Joseph goes to that side , that would probably make it more tempting. Surely O'Brien is capable of doing some NH training with the flats?

I wonder would Magnier consider in some small investments on a few horsies for the NH (I know that it is a different league) but sure, it would be pocket money for him.

According to a lot of reports,aido and the mrs have spent big money already on a yard in Kilkenny and have a lot of horses now ready.

He has already achieved what a lot of trainers would give their right leg for and money is not a problem so I think it will be all about setting up the kids when he is training for himself,would not like to be apprenticed in that yard picking up the scraps that they refuse!

Would not be a bit surprised if he pulled out of Ballydoyle after next season.

UrbanSea

He was quoted back in 2009 as saying they had been maintaining and updating the yard where her father trained when Wachman was getting more and more horses. That said Wachman has never produced the results nearly the same aw Aidan and I can't see David taking the reigns at Ballydoyle yet

kfallon

UrbanSea wrote: »

He was quoted back in 2009 as saying they had been maintaining and updating the yard where her father trained when Wachman was getting more and more horses. That said Wachman has never produced the results nearly the same aw Aidan and I can't see David taking the reigns at Ballydoyle yet

If Wachman ever takes over Coolmore are fúcked!

I have a feeling Joey may be doing some level of training with all those bumper horses we saw running last season

brandon_flowers

Didn't AM O'Brien have her fathers licence for a year or two before Aidan took over for a few years and then he moved to Ballydoyle? And I think she won NH champion trainer one year as well. So it would be no problem to have her father's yard in Kilkenny still with a load of horses in it. I can see Aidan leaving Ballydoyle in a year or two also.

Edit: Just checked and AM O'Brien was champion trainer in 92/93. The year before it was Arthur Moore, since then only Noel Meade, Willie Mullins and Aidan O'Brien have won the title.

Pinesky

Some very interesting speculation.
If Ao'B left and went out on his own it could have far reaching consequences for Oxx, Weld etc.
I'd say Juddmonte, the Qatari and the Aga could be forming an orderly queue.

shamdrog63

premierstone wrote: »

You are either talking through your pocket or somewhere very near your pocket, I'm thinking probably a little bit of Column A and a little bit of Column B :rolleyes:

He never rides anything of enough value for me to consider backing.I don,t have any bias against him as he,s a nice chap and his family and connections are a credit to this country.My post was tongue in cheek and I knew you would reply as its obvious your admiration for Joseph stems from him being from Tipp......or is he?

premierstone

shamdrog63 wrote: »

He never rides anything of enough value for me to consider backing.I don,t have any bias against him as he,s a nice chap and his family and connections are a credit to this country.My post was tongue in cheek and I knew you would reply as its obvious your admiration for Joseph stems from him being from Tipp......or is he?

He is not from Tipp and I also think you may need to re-examine the concept of value!

shamdrog63

premierstone wrote: »

He is not from Tipp and I also think you may need to re-examine the concept of value!

"value" is objective.Your value and mine differ as do most peoples.I,m not against taking short prices but would rather play at longer odds.

sting60

Ryan Moore will be the top jockey at Ballydoyle next year imo.There is no doubt that JOB inability to ride at 9st and under is a real worry to Magnier and co.For anyone here to say that jockeys like Lordan.Mc Donagh, Berry ,Haynes etc could not have broke Kinanes record with the horses JOB has at his disposal is total rubbish.Moore rides Ruler Of The World on Sat and has refused to ride for his retainer in the same race.