Setting up an amateur radio station

DesperateDan

I have no idea where to put this so please move if necessary

A couple of buddies of mine would like to start up their own internet radio station for as cheap as possible - with a view to trying to eventually get it on the air waves.

One is an ex-dj with a massive load of vinyl, some decks, a mixer, mics and other equipment. The other guy has the old-ish computer they want to use in his house :pac:

I'm the one that's meant to help them out getting set-up broadcasting but I don't really know where to start.

ShoutCast seems to be the way to go and this is a decent enough little tutorial which is used in conjunction with WinAmp. The problem with this is using your own internet connection and machine obviously limits the amount of concurrent listeners, and WinAmp doesn't really have the sexy radio stuff they would want (cross fading tracks, checking out listener data, lots of customization options for loading playlists etc.)

So is the only viable option if say we want 100 or 1000 listeners to pay for a service such as wave streaming in conjunction with ShoutCast?

Another good option seems to be Sam Broadcaster, the $699 studio version even lets you broadcast on AM/FM.

So my questions are has anyone done this before? Does anyone have any nicer alternatives / advice? What is the legality of broadcasting songs you don't own over the internet and AM/FM - I imagine completely forbidden but my mate reckons it's easy to get a license to do so (I know right )

richierichballs

Going by the questions you are asking I would get the idea of going on FM out of your head.

Trick of the Tail

With the greatest respect, I suggest you do a lot more research and reading before embarking on this.

You cannot broadcast on AM or FM without a licence (Without breaking the law). You can start an internet-only station, using any one of many pieces of software like Sam Broadcaster - but don't fork out for the 699 version to start off.

(It doesn't let you broadcast on AM/FM, they claim it is good enough for an AM or FM station to use on air).

If you start an internet station, as you say, you'll need to rent server capacity otherwise you'll quickly use up all the capacity of your internet connection. This is because every listener uses up a certain amount of bandwidth. Say your stream is 128kb/s, then each listener uses that much bandwidth.

However if you rent server capacity (from many online crowds or some Irish-based ones like Total Broadcast) then you send them one stream, and they give you a link all your listeners can use to listen. Its not particularly expensive, but does cost money.

An internet station is definitely the way to start. Get to know what you're doing, play around with software, before you even consider actually broadcasting on the radio.

DesperateDan

Yeah cool ah I know at the moment I've no idea what I'm doing but all the options are a little overwhelming, just knowing the names of some things to start googling etc. is good (such as Total Broadcast) so thanks

Let's say we use Sam Broadcaster and hook it up to the free Shout Cast DNAS - am I right in saying that just turns your own machine into a server that Sam can connect to (i.e. no server capacity)? We will probably do this first of all and have a go getting used to having a few friends listening to begin with.

So I think the best (actually, only :pac:) option is to pay for a service such as Wave Streaming ($29 per month for 500 listeners)?

Fuzzy Clam

That Shoutcast server will be fine for streaming straight from your PC to a few friends. Ideally you need a little headroom so divide the upstream of your internet connection by the max numbers of listeners and go for the next lowest stream rate in Shoutcast.

soc160

Sorting out your broadcast equipment and how you are going to access any kind of audience should really come after you look into the licensing, no point paying anything if your going to get shut down. The station will only attract a small listnership but if it gets bigger then you might get found out for not paying any royalties, I assume nothing will come of it other than being asked to cease and possibly having your equipment confiscated.

Don't forget about a webpage and something to promote the station too, and to monitor traffic through. Usually these kinds of projects go two or three ways, assuming it gets started, people will get bored of doing it or just get lazy and not turn up once they get busy and eventually the station stops or it works, gets noticed and becomes popular then someone might try to buy it or join and change things. Either way I suggest you look into the legal side of things, who owns the station? Who's in charge of decisions? What if someone wants to buy it etc... I dont mean pay a lawyer but draw up contracts and split ownership just in case.

From a technical point of view you might be able to use a mixer, run it into the computer and on use play it through winamp or whatever the playout system is. I would suggest you think about how you plan to operate, normal everyday computers arent built to be on for 24 hours a day, they are going to slow down. One's in radio stations are usually built to be online for long periods have surge protectors and then they have servers running stuff, including backup computers to take over if something fails. You cant really just turn it off at night when people are in bed or you will lose out on listeners, you might need 2 or 3 computers. Radio Zara is a free program you can download for automated playout, or even just a playlist on random but thats more risky.

reg114

Would it cost much you much I wonder royalties-wise

DT100

Check out Mixxx and Lunarcaster...free software for broadcasting.

Just for example,if you were to run a hobby station,making no money on adverts,you could get a webcastingservice digital starter account.That would be 75 euro per annum ex vat.That would allow 82 ,000 streamed works.If you were broadcasting for an hour,and during that hour played 10 songs,and had ten listeners to the show,that would be 100 streams...If you go on the imro site,you can get more information there.If you Google internet radio station forums,you will come across lots of advice,and ideas on broadcasting software,and setup.

DT100

DesperateDan wrote: »

Yeah cool ah I know at the moment I've no idea what I'm doing but all the options are a little overwhelming, just knowing the names of some things to start googling etc. is good (such as Total Broadcast) so thanks

Let's say we use Sam Broadcaster and hook it up to the free Shout Cast DNAS - am I right in saying that just turns your own machine into a server that Sam can connect to (i.e. no server capacity)? We will probably do this first of all and have a go getting used to having a few friends listening to begin with.

So I think the best (actually, only :pac:) option is to pay for a service such as Wave Streaming ($29 per month for 500 listeners)?

Have a look at NextKast..wouldn't break the bank for a startup....Sam is very expensive for just trying out.You will of course get a free trial...but the NextKast looks fairly good,you get a trial,and its not too heavy on the pocket if you choose to buy.If you get things up and going,let us have a link.Feel free to pm if you like............

maccored

im running a station at http://raid.radiocrackle.com. Was using shoutcast but switched to icecast as its easier on the server. Podcasted at https://itunes.apple.com/ie/podcast/raid-dot-radio-crackle/id725273951?mt=2

end of the road

Deleted User wrote: »

If you were broadcasting for an hour,and during that hour played 10 songs,and had ten listeners to the show,that would be 100 streams

exactly and thats the problem, the way IMRO calculate royalties for internet stations should be outlawed for internet radio stations, such calculations are only suitable for music services where you go onto a website and pick your own songs to listen to (like last.fm) an internet station is a continuous stream just like a ordinary fm/am radio station, the only thing that is different is how the content is delivered (as in via an mp3 or aac stream,) do note this is similar to dab/dab + which are delivered using mp2 and mp4 but as far as i know dab/dab + stations can't monitor their listeners like an internet station can via its server, i can see where their coming from with "listener slots" but the way their doing it is a stone age model which refuses to recognise internet stations as radio stations (which they are)

Five Lamps

end of the road wrote: »

exactly and thats the problem, the way IMRO calculate royalties for internet stations should be outlawed for internet radio stations, such calculations are only suitable for music services where you go onto a website and pick your own songs to listen to (like last.fm) an internet station is a continuous stream just like a ordinary fm/am radio station, the only thing that is different is how the content is delivered (as in via an mp3 or aac stream,) do note this is similar to dab/dab + which are delivered using mp2 and mp4 but as far as i know dab/dab + stations can't monitor their listeners like an internet station can via its server, i can see where their coming from with "listener slots" but the way their doing it is a stone age model which refuses to recognise internet stations as radio stations (which they are)

You wouldn't want to have your royalties calculated on the basis of AM/FM stations do! If anything, the online model is somewhat better as you account for your listenership in actual listener sessions.

The content encoding doesn't matter - most radio stations are using audio files for play out (WAV) and are digital all the way to the transmitter.

You can get a streaming licence from IMRO from €75 per year that allows 82,500 streams per annum. Probably the best place to start.

0rt

Trick of the Tail wrote: »

With the greatest respect, I suggest you do a lot more research and reading before embarking on this.

You cannot broadcast on AM or FM without a licence (Without breaking the law).

There is no law stating you cant broadcast.
Its only enforced by an act.

But yes, you can get in trouble, but there are loads of pirates out there.

Five Lamps

0rt wrote: »

There is no law stating you cant broadcast.
Its only enforced by an act.

And what difference does that make? Most laws require legislation passed through parliament.

But yes, you can get in trouble, but there are loads of pirates out there.

You certainly can and the penalties are stiff. Not only do they affect you but can affect others who assist your venture e.g. the owner of premises or lands you broadcast from.

turbocab

the medium wave band has been abandoned in ireland,Im sure rte wouldnt care if you used 567 or 1278 khz,nor would the authorities for that matter,they dont care about am anymore,

0rt

Ahh of course they will..
Stations out there pay for their licence.. why should some people get away with it?

turbocab

0rt wrote: »

Ahh of course they will..
Stations out there pay for their licence.. why should some people get away with it?

why arent they using these frequencies then,saving them for the rainy day that never comes,

Five Lamps

turbocab wrote: »

the medium wave band has been abandoned in ireland,Im sure rte wouldnt care if you used 567 or 1278 khz,nor would the authorities for that matter,they dont care about am anymore,

The listening public in Ireland have also abandoned MW so it may not be a good option to pursue. There is only one legal station in the Republic on MW - Spirit Radio. A couple of pirates and that's it (one in Dublin).

MW is expensive to run when compared to FM.

The authorites may not have an interest in using available MW licence but would have an interest in enforcing the law.

turbocab

medium wave is not more expensive to run nowadays,new am transmitters are all solid state now , not like the transmitters of old,You could buy a 1kilowatt tx and that would cover all o f Dublin .to get the same coverage on fm,you will need your tx on top of three rock mountain.

Five Lamps

turbocab wrote: »

medium wave is not more expensive to run nowadays,new am transmitters are all solid state now , not like the transmitters of old,You could buy a 1kilowatt tx and that would cover all o f Dublin .to get the same coverage on fm,you will need your tx on top of three rock mountain.

You wouldn't need to put it on top of a mountain at all.

The problem is that new technology might make it cheaper and more efficient but few people are listening to the AM band. Especially in Ireland where there is only one station broadcasting on AM (excluding LW)..

turbocab

Five Lamps wrote: »

You wouldn't need to put it on top of a mountain at all.

The problem is that new technology might make it cheaper and more efficient but few people are listening to the AM band. Especially in Ireland where there is only one station broadcasting on AM (excluding LW)..

FM coverage is all about height,not so much about power,eg south Dublin fm from dundrum shopping centre has woefull coverage, im less than 2miles from it and the signal is not usable ,where as NEAR fm from the northside of the city about 12 miles away has a much stronger signal to me,

georgesstreet

turbocab wrote: »

FM coverage is all about height,not so much about power,eg south Dublin fm from dundrum shopping centre has woefull coverage, im less than 2miles from it and the signal is not usable ,where as NEAR fm from the northside of the city about 12 miles away has a much stronger signal to me,

Why are you not listening to them on MW?

turbocab

georgesstreet wrote: »

Why are you not listening to them on MW?

because they are not on it,sdcr would be better off on mw ,there signal on fm is totally inadequate,The rock were on mw with a 30 day licence on 1278 kHz with great coverage,Im sure licences could be given to new budding broadcasters to get into radio on mw as there are loads of available frequencies,the fm band in Dublin is basically saturated at this stage.

georgesstreet

turbocab wrote: »

because they are not on it,sdcr would be better off on mw ,there signal on fm is totally inadequate,The rock were on mw with a 30 day licence on 1278 kHz with great coverage,Im sure licences could be given to new budding broadcasters to get into radio on mw as there are loads of available frequencies,the fm band in Dublin is basically saturated at this stage.

That was my point. Hardly anyone listens to MW.

What does "dublin is basically saturated" mean? I often am in London and there are hundreds of stations there on FM. Why is dublin "basically saturated" and unable to cope with hundreds of radio stations on FM, when other cities cope with many more stations on FM?

turbocab

georgesstreet wrote: »

That was my point. Hardly anyone listens to MW.

What does "dublin is basically saturated" mean? I often am in London and there are hundreds of stations there on FM. Why is dublin "basically saturated" and unable to cope with hundreds of radio stations on FM, when other cities cope with many more stations on FM?

hundreds of stations on fm, you don't know your bandwidth parameters then do you,, every station must be 300khz away from the next channel on fm within the same target area.the fm band is 20 MHz in total,that gives you approx100 stations max, not hundreds, that's assuming there is no interference caused to stations in neighbouring counties,

Five Lamps

georgesstreet wrote: »

That was my point. Hardly anyone listens to MW.

What does "dublin is basically saturated" mean? I often am in London and there are hundreds of stations there on FM. Why is dublin "basically saturated" and unable to cope with hundreds of radio stations on FM, when other cities cope with many more stations on FM?

That's incorrect. There's actually not many more city wide stations than in Dublin - BBC and independent combined and leaving aside the stations in neighbouring counties.

There is more scope for community/low power stations given how big the city is geographically.

MW is generally unsuitable for community stations - especially those in urban areas.

georgesstreet

Five Lamps wrote: »

MW is generally unsuitable for community stations - especially those in urban areas.

Which is presumably why its not used

turbocab

mw is used quite widely throughout the uk for minority groups and hospital and university stations,the problem in Ireland is its been allowed to be vacated,

georgesstreet

turbocab wrote: »

mw is used quite widely throughout the uk for minority groups and hospital and university stations,the problem in Ireland is its been allowed to be vacated,

Again another reason why its not used for normal broadcasting, presumably.

Five Lamps

turbocab wrote: »

mw is used quite widely throughout the uk for minority groups and hospital and university stations,the problem in Ireland is its been allowed to be vacated,

With reception extending not much further than the buildings that houses the station.