Alfa 159 1.9JTDm power loss

Pique

Right, I'm stumped here.

Driving yesterday when I get the 'ding' signalling an error. What is it this time?
ASR Failed.
'Ding'
VDC Failed
'Ding'
Hill Assist Failed.

Balls, says I but reckoned it is probably just an ABS sensor until

Crap...engine loses power and fuel gauge drops to zero and fuel light starts flashing. I knew I had about an eighth of a tank left but the car felt fooked.
No power, no turbo boost and struggled to get up long inclines.
Oil Level, fine.
No sign of leaks or vacuum hoses missing anywhere.
Engine runs as rough as a badgers arse, like it's on 3 cylinders or something.
Will NOT rev when driving. On a long straight it got up to 100kph, eventually, but flooring the pedal made absolutely NO diference.

I used Torque to scan the ECU (had dongle in the car at the time) but nothing. No faults stored (even though the aforementioned errors were still on the dash). EGR was fine. Boost pressure looked good.

Now as I'm writing this, it's occurred to me that an injector may have gone and I don't know if fuel rail pressure would highlight that. What is normal pressure ?

In any case, the weird thing (or another weird thing) is that at one point, I felt a momentary surge of power, like the old girl had woken from her malaise, but then back to **** again. The thing is, I glanced over at the fuel gauge and saw the needle swing back down to the empty position again. The temporary surge coincided with the fuel gauge working correctly for a second.

WTF is going on, I thought.

Anyway, eventually got home and connected FiatECUscan 2.1 but no errors were recorded there either.

Does anyone have a better OBD scanner that picks up things like injectors/ABS sensors etc?

Or does anyone have any ideas. It's a 1.9 JTDM 16V.

Redsoxfan

I have Alfadiag if that's any good to you.

bohsfan

Sounds like the engine has gone into limp mode to protect itself.

Perhaps have a search on the Alfa Owners website to see if anyone has had a similar issue?

Offhand what you describe could be down to the DPF (Diesel Particulate Filter). This can catch a lot of soot in the exhaust. An Alfa savvy garage/mechanic can plug in a laptop and force a regen 'soot burning' cycle.

Pique

Redsoxfan wrote: »

I have Alfadiag if that's any good to you.

Is that software or a physical unit?
Is it more conprehensive than the free stuff out there? Haven't used it myself, but I suppose I should really get it, considering

Pique

bohsfan wrote: »

Sounds like the engine has gone into limp mode to protect itself.

Perhaps have a search on the Alfa Owners website to see if anyone has had a similar issue?

Offhand what you describe could be down to the DPF (Diesel Particulate Filter). This can catch a lot of soot in the exhaust. An Alfa savvy garage/mechanic can plug in a laptop and force a regen 'soot burning' cycle.

I was told the DPF had been removed by the previous owner (or the one before the last guy). The software I have allows you to force a regen too, but I didn't bother.

The link between the issues is the confusing thing. It all leads me to think it's electrical. Why would the fuel gauge drop to zero? Why would the VDC errors appear at the same time? Could be a major coincidence but I doubt it.

bear1

From what I remember reading on the AO forum was that when those lights show up it was usually down to a dying battery.
Car losing power could have been the car doing a regen of the DPF. Unusual that no errors have been logged.
Could this be your problem?

http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa-159-brera-and-946-spider/226020-help-check-engine-vdc-asr-unavailable-limp-mode-rising-falling.html

Alfas act strangely to a dying battery. Mine would have nearly the same symptoms, except my rev counter and speedo would go to zero but car still on and then all the lights would flicker. Bought a new battery on a whim and hey presto everything back to normal.

bear1

Pique wrote: »

I was told the DPF had been removed by the previous owner (or the one before the last guy). The software I have allows you to force a regen too, but I didn't bother.

If the DPF was removed already and removed properly (it needs to be switched off in the ECU also) then the car wont perform a regen.
Usually when people remove the DPF then the EGR is blanked off and a remap is done to complete the process properly

Pique

bear1 wrote: »

From what I remember reading on the AO forum was that when those lights show up it was usually down to a dying battery.
Car losing power could have been the car doing a regen of the DPF. Unusual that no errors have been logged.
Could this be your problem?

http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa-159-brera-and-946-spider/226020-help-check-engine-vdc-asr-unavailable-limp-mode-rising-falling.html

Alfas act strangely to a dying battery. Mine would have nearly the same symptoms, except my rev counter and speedo would go to zero but car still on and then all the lights would flicker. Bought a new battery on a whim and hey presto everything back to normal.

That's almost exactly the same. I checked the oil though and it was fine, but the display on startup showed it at 4/5 full.

I'll pull the battery tonight and give it a charge overnight. If it works I'll be amazed.
Funny thing is, I'd just driven 150 miles the day before so I thought it'd have nicely charged the battery. Maybe my alternator needs a recon.

bear1 wrote: »

If the DPF was removed already and removed properly (it needs to be switched off in the ECU also) then the car wont perform a regen.
Usually when people remove the DPF then the EGR is blanked off and a remap is done to complete the process properly

I haven't verified if the DPF is removed, I'm just going on what I was told.
The EGR still checks out on Torque scanner as OK.

Bpmull

Probably worth filling it up with diesel just to rule that out although it's probably not the problem. I think certain cars go into limp mode when the diesel level gets really low but I could be wrong. Still for the sake of it I'd fill it up just to rule it out before you start looking at other more complicated causes.

Nonoperational

I've heard of stories like this with goosed batteries too.

bear1

I think its easy to check if you have the DPF still.
The car needs to be put onto the ramps, then underneath you should see the heat shield. Remove that and you will see if there is a DPF or not. If yes I'd imagine that the car was also going through a regen

bohsfan

bear1 wrote: »

Alfas act strangely to a dying battery. Mine would have nearly the same symptoms, except my rev counter and speedo would go to zero but car still on and then all the lights would flicker. Bought a new battery on a whim and hey presto everything back to normal.

True statement! My 156 was acting very strangely on start-up. The trip computer was resetting itself, the radio was resetting itself and the lights were flickering. It would start and everything would go back to normal.

Brought it into Gerry in Ti and he popped in a new battery- all problems instantly solved!

bear1

Just pray it isnt the alternator... right pig of a job

pred racer

+1 on all the battery related comments.
If you want to check your alternator, drop me a pm and ill check the voltage from mine at tickover.

discombobulate

Out of interest also OP what year is your 159 and what mileage?

Pique

discombobulate wrote: »

Out of interest also OP what year is your 159 and what mileage?

2006 and 160k kilometers.

Pique

pred racer wrote: »

+1 on all the battery related comments.
If you want to check your alternator, drop me a pm and ill check the voltage from mine at tickover.

Mines reading low :-(
13.84v at tickover.

Bpmull

Pique wrote: »

Mines reading low :-(
13.84v at tickover.

Is that with much of a draw of it I.e lights on, heated rear window on etc.

discombobulate

Pique wrote: »

2006 and 160k kilometers.

Cheers was interested as I have one myself. Hope it doesn't work out being too much of an issue for you. As i'm sure you already know if you're in Dublin Ti Autos are great.

Pique

Bpmull wrote: »

Is that with much of a draw of it I.e lights on, heated rear window on etc.

Nothing. Not even radio.

Bpmull

Pique wrote: »

Nothing. Not even radio.

That could well be your problem then. I'm sure a garage should be able to tell easy enough.

pred racer

Pique wrote: »

Mines reading low :-(
13.84v at tickover.

Ill check mine in the morning for you, but I would be expecting higher than that.

Pique

Yeah I think it should be closer to 14.5v.

bear1

Your battery is kaput

Pique

Charged it up full this evening and same story when I started it up. Gonna try to get my local friendly motor factors to let me try a new battery before I buy it to see if it works.

Proper pain to get a battery out of a 159, fwiw.

pred racer

Mine is 14.06v.

Pique

Well, a new battery didn't work.

Plan B. Alternator.

skyhighflyer

Pique wrote: »

Well, a new battery didn't work.

Plan B. Alternator.

I'd be dropping her into Ti to be honest, no point in guessing what's wrong with it.

Pique

skyhighflyer wrote: »

I'd be dropping her into Ti to be honest, no point in guessing what's wrong with it.

I live in Donegal. It's going to my mechanic as soon as possible.

road_high

Yep diagnostics, otherwise throwing money in the dark (as you know I'm sure).

skyhighflyer

Pique wrote: »

I live in Donegal. It's going to my mechanic as soon as possible.

Sorry, didn't notice that

Pique

Update on this.

After eating my money on a new battery (although I've no idea how old the existing one was) I left it to my mechanic this week and it turned out the problem wss
...
...
...
...
...
Drum roll please
...
...
...
...
...
Loose injector connections to 2 cylinders!

Yep. That's all. No electric problems at all. Car drives like it always did again.

€30 to the mechanic and I'm back on the road.

I was really expecting a bill around 10 times that so very happy days.

My first experience of Alfa problems is sorted for the price of a few pints and a taxi :-)

discombobulate

Pique wrote: »

Update on this.

After eating my money on a new battery (although I've no idea how old the existing one was) I left it to my mechanic this week and it turned out the problem wss
...
...
...
...
...
Drum roll please
...
...
...
...
...
Loose injector connections to 2 cylinders!

Yep. That's all. No electric problems at all. Car drives like it always did again.

€30 to the mechanic and I'm back on the road.

I was really expecting a bill around 10 times that so very happy days.

My first experience of Alfa problems is sorted for the price of a few pints and a taxi :-)

Happy days man. Glad to hear

bear1

Thats great news indeed. Now go play the lotto

georgefalls

Alfa's. Don't ya just love em':D

Citroen2cv

I do believe there was a commonly known problem with the wiring going to the no.3 injector on these engines, well known with the opel astra 1.9cdti. Opel/vauxhall offered a wiring repair kit, I dont think alfa did.

bear1

Wouldnt those kits work with the Alfa considering those engines are derived from Alfa? Or am I mistaken?

Citroen2cv

Yes the wiring kit would work with the alfa.