A lost art ?

Golfgraffix

Played our October medal today and the battery on my gps gave out.

From the second onward I could not for the life of me get a grip on distance, I had to get a distance from my playing partners or walk and find a sprinkler. Not that it was a hassle I was just taken aback at how reliant I have become on my gps.

Think I might play my weekly wed game with out for a while and get back to playing by feel.

J

slave1

Spare batteries live in my bag for such an eventuality.
Off topic, thanks again for the invite to play in the bears club in Florida during the summer, if you find yourself around the midlands looking for a game feel free to drop me a PM

plumber77

Golfgraffix wrote: »

Played our October medal today and the battery on my gps gave out.

From the second onward I could not for the life of me get a grip on distance, I had to get a distance from my playing partners or walk and find a sprinkler. Not that it was a hassle I was just taken aback at how reliant I have become on my gps.

Think I might play my weekly wed game with out for a while and get back to playing by feel.

J

Same as that. I nearly get into a panic if I think I forgotten my gps watch. Find this more so on away courses than my home club.

m r c

Golfgraffix wrote: »

Played our October medal today and the battery on my gps gave out.

From the second onward I could not for the life of me get a grip on distance, I had to get a distance from my playing partners or walk and find a sprinkler. Not that it was a hassle I was just taken aback at how reliant I have become on my gps.

Think I might play my weekly wed game with out for a while and get back to playing by feel.

J

I've noticed that too. Believing you have the exact right club in hand means you only need to put a decent swing on it. As opposed to another doubt in your head at address, we've enough of them :-)

ForeRight

Last year I was playing in an open comp in south county. On the first hole I was hitting my third to the green when I realised my bushnell was dead.

Panic and cold sweats followed shortly before realising it was actually not to much of a big deal which then led me to go on and shoot my lowest score ever with a gross 71 for 1 under and winning the open.

I spent my voucher on batteries then.

Keano

If I'm going out just playing a few holes I'll never bring it. Like most technologies we've become over reliant on them!

Rikand

Still dont have a GPS - Pfft, who needs it!


(and yet when I play with people who do have one, I'm begging for the distances off them! )

alxmorgan

A lost art ? Yes
And it can stay lost for me - I have enough trouble getting the ball around the course without needing to add another thing to worry about.
With my GPS I know how far everything is so takes all that out of the equation
Never play even a single practice hole without it - I don't normally in comp so why would I practice differently ?

ssbob

Keano A Legend wrote: »

If I'm going out just playing a few holes I'll never bring it. Like most technologies we've become over reliant on them!

I am like this, I just play my puck arounds with feel but always use it in competitive and comps.

Almaviva

Good observation. I can play my home course happily without my gps. In fact, dont really use it too often there in a round. But playing elsewhere it feels terrible to not have it. Was going to play my 'second' course a few weeks ago and realised I had forgotten it. I know the course well, but still couldnt bear not having it. Turned around and went back for a 20 minute round trip....

Kevinmarkham

I played Machrahanish in Scotland about a decade ago. You get a marker on the tee that tells you the length of the hole... and that's all the help they gave you. It made the golf thrilling. Using your eye and your "expertise" to figure out how to overcome the challenges was a sheer thrill. How satisfying to hit a full five iron and end up on the green.

I'm not a fan of GPS. My first encounter with one (a four ball in front of me at Beaufort) left me raging. If you use one and rely on one, fair enough, but I genuinely believe it's important that your eye takes priority. How else do you assess the hazards and the lie of the land.

m r c says it's one less thing to worry about... not sure I agree with that. At the end of the day, when you stand over the ball, you have to be positive about your shot and commit to it 100%... If the GPS tells you 153 yards and the fairway marker is telling you 151 does it make a difference to how you play your shot?

These days most would struggle to play using only their eye, but that doesn't mean it's not the most important tool 'in your bag'.

realgolfgeek

Kevinmarkham wrote: »

If the GPS tells you 153 yards and the fairway marker is telling you 151 does it make a difference to how you play your shot?

Absolutely no difference whatsoever ...
Drives me totally insane watching someone take a laser or whatever they have to measure 26.5 yards to the green.

m r c

Kevinmarkham wrote: »

I played Machrahanish in Scotland about a decade ago. You get a marker on the tee that tells you the length of the hole... and that's all the help they gave you. It made the golf thrilling. Using your eye and your "expertise" to figure out how to overcome the challenges was a sheer thrill. How satisfying to hit a full five iron and end up on the green.

I'm not a fan of GPS. My first encounter with one (a four ball in front of me at Beaufort) left me raging. If you use one and rely on one, fair enough, but I genuinely believe it's important that your eye takes priority. How else do you assess the hazards and the lie of the land.

m r c says it's one less thing to worry about... not sure I agree with that. At the end of the day, when you stand over the ball, you have to be positive about your shot and commit to it 100%... If the GPS tells you 153 yards and the fairway marker is telling you 151 does it make a difference to how you play your shot?

These days most would struggle to play using only their eye, but that doesn't mean it's not the most important tool 'in your bag'.

The point I was making was I just trust the gps because I'm better off "believing" the gps and trusting its right because I'm better off being committed to the wrong club than doubting the right club. Akin to trusting your caddy if you get me?

The other benefit is that I've mapped my home course(Strandhill) and the front is the point which the ball won't roll back and the middle is maybe not the exact middle more where the ball will stay on the top tier.

Kevinmarkham

m r c wrote: »

The point I was making was I just trust the gps because I'm better off "believing" the gps and trusting its right because I'm better off being committed to the wrong club than doubting the right club. Akin to trusting your caddy if you get me?

The other benefit is that I've mapped my home course(Strandhill) and the front is the point which the ball won't roll back and the middle is maybe not the exact middle more where the ball will stay on the top tier.

Fair enough. Played Strandhill a couple of weekends ago - perfect day and course in great condition. Love the place.

ForeRight

I wouldn't be pulling my laser out if my ball is sitting beside a fairway marker with a yardage on it.
I rely on it totally when I'm off line and in the rough(often) where I'm coming in from an angle and the fairway markers are no use to you.

Ben1977

Have a laser, find it speeds things up for me? But inside 100 yards it's all about feel and the conditions. Seeing a shot in your head, pulling a club and then just pulling the trigger, is the best feeling when it comes off.

GreeBo

I use it probably 50% more from 120m than I do outside side.

I cant control my 5,6,7,8 to within 10m (a club) but from inside 100m 10m is important to me, and also very easy to get wrong by eye.

Rikand

no 100 metre markers at ye're clubs ?

GreeBo

Rickylovesuall wrote: »

no 100 metre markers at ye're clubs ?

There are.
100m to the front of the green.
Hmm is the green 15m long or 25m long?
Am I 60m out or 50m out?
etc etc

Sure I can eyeball it, but then I have the fact that my swing might be off coupled with the fact that my distance estimate might be off.

soundsham

have to say it speeds up a lot of guys by using gps
it would be an interesting exercise to play without yardages but i would think it would slow people down even more

i dont play with guys who hit fairways all day long so it cuts out a lot of the
"are you close to the 150 marker?" guff

or watching guys marching up to the 100 yd marker and marching out 23 yards back to get an exact yardage for their next shot
only to pull a finger from their ho1e at the last minute to judge the wind also

in my experience slow players are just that,its a frame of mind

they are slow to move of the tee, slow to be ready to play a shot,slow to move their bag to the correct exit spot off a green,take too long putting and would be slow to get yardages if every 5metres was marked out !
there probably crawling the roads in their cars
(note to self:this is another example of my lack of patience)

could you imagine how long these guys would/do take without gps

Felexicon

Never used a gps. Seems weird to me that people find it so hard to play by eye and using course markers. Actually don't see much difference in using GPS or phone app with detailed weather like wind speed and direction

Golfgraffix

Felexicon wrote: »

Actually don't see much difference in using GPS or phone app with detailed weather like wind speed and direction

I would love to hear you elaborate on that a little.

J

charlieIRL

great fun having a peek at a gps and saying "thats bang on x club for me" and then proceed to duff / overhit the shot!!

GreeBo

Felexicon wrote: »

Never used a gps. Seems weird to me that people find it so hard to play by eye and using course markers.

so why use course markers so?

Felexicon

Course markers are there for everyone to use so give no distinct advantage to one player over another. If they were taken away tomorrow I wouldn't care. I just find it massively hypocritical that some technologies are seen as an aid while others are viewed as cheating.

GreeBo

Felexicon wrote: »

Course markers are there for everyone to use so give no distinct advantage to one player over another. If they were taken away tomorrow I wouldn't care. I just find it massively hypocritical that some technologies are seen as an aid while others are viewed as cheating.

GPS and laser are available to everyone!

you could just see easily argue that the rules on COR are silly, why is .80 ok but .83 isn't fit example?
you have to draw the line somewhere with these things.

The_Architect

Unsurprisingly, I am not a fan of GPS.

In an effort to throw a bone to all those who need something, I believe that courses should have 150 yard posts (not fairway markers) and nothing else.

Quick eyeball as you are walking to your ball and play away.

Felexicon

GreeBo wrote: »

GPS and laser are available to everyone!

you could just see easily argue that the rules on COR are silly, why is .80 ok but .83 isn't fit example?
you have to draw the line somewhere with these things.

They are available to everyone in the same way Ferrari is. You have to spend money to get it. I just can't see how people who are so opposed to other similar technologies can keep a straight face when praising the advantages of GPS. I can't see myself using one as I thi k there is a bit of skill lost when relying on technology to give you absolutes for every shot

inthehole1

out of interest what make of gps are most people using

Boskowski

I find GPS totally legit. I mean the best players in the world have their distances spelt out for them. We should be allowed the same, why not?

Garmin S1 wrist watch GPS. Dead handy, spot on, no hassle and front, center, back is all I need.

Lost art? Maybe so but not lost by me cos I never had it.
I find the GPS allows me to leave my ego in the bag. I read 163 to the back, I pull the right club for it. No sh1t like 'looks like I should get there with a 7' when really its a full 5.
Now I'm still the same golfer so I'm not stiffin it to the back pin all the time - well sometimes I do - but I'm not falling off the front fringe playing to a back pin either.

I see it sitting in the club house restaurant with view of our 18th. You can sit there all day and watch the likes of us playing to a back pin and not one will hit it past the pin or even pin high. We amateurs are notorious at under clubbing and thinking of our best 7 iron ever when judging distance rather than our average shot. GPS helped me quite a bit there.

FixdePitchmark

I think it is like smart phones and apps - apps were going to change the world - but it was a bit of a fad, people ended up playing Angry Birds and listening to the Radio on them. People seem to be quicker to technological fads these days. I've seen lads with GPS at this stage not even using them. I was even at one stage asked a distance from a guy with a GPS.

Obviously it is great technology and all that. And, it is just me as I'm a bit of a technophobe - but it is nice when technology is so invasive in modern day life - that there is one place you can get away from it all.

But - I just wonder how much it has improved people's handicaps in the real world.

I think above a certain handicap there is more important things at stake. Like people go on about 156 - 158 - I'll be honest , I'm only good enough for 10 yard jumps - That is just me. I'm sort of more a weather guy, the look, the wind, how my 7 iron went from yellow or 56 went from red flag , how greens look and run, links or parkland, hazards, bunkers, land fall, How well I'm playing.

In the end , I'll get one - But, what other sport are electronic devices permitted in the field of play ?

It just seems strange that the game that claims to be pure, ancient, of tradition - is one of the few using a technological aid.

I know , I'm an old fool and go for these things in the end. But, hey - not like the old days as the man said.

alxmorgan

Felexicon wrote: »

They are available to everyone in the same way Ferrari is. You have to spend money to get it. I just can't see how people who are so opposed to other similar technologies can keep a straight face when praising the advantages of GPS. I can't see myself using one as I thi k there is a bit of skill lost when relying on technology to give you absolutes for every shot

Whats the difference with any golf equipment here though ?
I can't afford a TM SLDR or a new set of wedges or to play Pro V1s.

Felexicon

alxmorgan wrote: »

Whats the difference with any golf equipment here though ?
I can't afford a TM SLDR or a new set of wedges or to play Pro V1s.

But you still have a club and a ball and therefore start on a level playing field with everyone else. The club and ball make or model only give as much advantage as the players skill allows

Dublin Spur

simply not worth the investment
all holes have distance markers
save your cash and use your common sense

GreeBo

Felexicon wrote: »

They are available to everyone in the same way Ferrari is. You have to spend money to get it. I just can't see how people who are so opposed to other similar technologies can keep a straight face when praising the advantages of GPS. I can't see myself using one as I thi k there is a bit of skill lost when relying on technology to give you absolutes for every shot

sorry but that's ridiculous.
how much is a GPS these days? compare that to a set of clubs or even a single club...a couple of rounds of golf or even a couple in the pub.
to compare it to a Ferrari is bogus.
anyone who plays golf can get an entry level GPS or laser of they wanted.

GreeBo

Felexicon wrote: »

But you still have a club and a ball and therefore start on a level playing field with everyone else. The club and ball make or model only give as much advantage as the players skill allows

so a lidl driver is as forgiving as a titleist?
what about those that can't afford lessons or a powa kaddy?

Felexicon

GreeBo wrote: »

sorry but that's ridiculous.
how much is a GPS these days? compare that to a set of clubs or even a single club...a couple of rounds of golf or even a couple in the pub.
to compare it to a Ferrari is bogus.
anyone who plays golf can get an entry level GPS or laser of they wanted.

Oh wow, you really don't get what an analogy is? I'm not saying buying a GPS is literally like buying a Ferrari. My point is that it's a piece of technology that gives the people who have it a large advantage over those that don't. I just can't see how this is ok but using other technologies isn't.
Could someone explain why GPS is ok but detailed weather apps are not?

Felexicon

GreeBo wrote: »

so a lidl driver is as forgiving as a titleist?
what about those that can't afford lessons or a powa kaddy?

No, but I'm sure any of the low handicappers on here could beat me using the Lidl driver as their skill and swing would far outweigh mine.
Lessons are different because they still require you to do the work to be effective. Not sure what advantage a PowaKaddy gives tbh so can't answer you there

ForeRight

If people who can afford a gps have an unfair advantage over everyone else people who can afford pro v 1's, top of the range drivers, Scorty Cameron's, lessons all have an unfair advantage too.

Why are cavity back forgiving clubs allowed. Fat putter grips. Weights in the back of irons?

realgolfgeek

GreeBo wrote: »

anyone who plays golf can get an entry level GPS or laser of they wanted.

GreeBo wrote: »

what about those that can't afford lessons

rather hypocritical no ?

The_Architect

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

I think it is like smart phones and apps - apps were going to change the world - but it was a bit of a fad, people ended up playing Angry Birds and listening to the Radio on them. People seem to be quicker to technological fads these days. I've seen lads with GPS at this stage not even using them. I was even at one stage asked a distance from a guy with a GPS.

Obviously it is great technology and all that. And, it is just me as I'm a bit of a technophobe - but it is nice when technology is so invasive in modern day life - that there is one place you can get away from it all.

But - I just wonder how much it has improved people's handicaps in the real world.

I think above a certain handicap there is more important things at stake. Like people go on about 156 - 158 - I'll be honest , I'm only good enough for 10 yard jumps - That is just me. I'm sort of more a weather guy, the look, the wind, how my 7 iron went from yellow or 56 went from red flag , how greens look and run, links or parkland, hazards, bunkers, land fall, How well I'm playing.

In the end , I'll get one - But, what other sport are electronic devices permitted in the field of play ?

It just seems strange that the game that claims to be pure, ancient, of tradition - is one of the few using a technological aid.

I know , I'm an old fool and go for these things in the end. But, hey - not like the old days as the man said.

This is one of the best posts I have read on this forum

PARlance

Like a lot of things in golf, the equipment may help but I think the biggest factor any piece of golf equipment has is how much you "think" it helps.

The missus bought a GPS watch for me at the start of the summer.
I had never used anything before that.
I found it great at the start...I know could tell just how far I was missing my approaches by.

A few rounds later and the battery went on me mid-round.
The panic was unbelievable... Cold sweats... Until I figured out that I just might be able to go and look at the course markers.

I still use the watch, it's incredibly handy, but I've played a few rounds on my home course without it and at this stage it doesn't bother me to go without it now.
As fixde (welcome back chief ) says, I'm a 10 yard golfer at best, 151 or 159 yards it doesn't matter, it's still a nice gentle SW

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

GreeBo

Felexicon wrote: »

Oh wow, you really don't get what an analogy is? I'm not saying buying a GPS is literally like buying a Ferrari. My point is that it's a piece of technology that gives the people who have it a large advantage over those that don't. I just can't see how this is ok but using other technologies isn't.
Could someone explain why GPS is ok but detailed weather apps are not?

I do get what an analogy is, thanks.

You were attempting to say that a GPS is unobtainable to some people in the same way a Ferarri is. Now you seem to be saying the problem is that its an unfair advantage?
If it does give an unfair advantage, why isnt everyone using them?

Because there was a line drawn, it had to be somewhere. There would always be something just one side or the other.

alxmorgan

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

But - I just wonder how much it has improved people's handicaps in the real world.

I think above a certain handicap there is more important things at stake. Like people go on about 156 - 158 - I'll be honest , I'm only good enough for 10 yard jumps - That is just me. I'm sort of more a weather guy, the look, the wind, how my 7 iron went from yellow or 56 went from red flag , how greens look and run, links or parkland, hazards, bunkers, land fall, How well I'm playing.

No issue with this in so far as I too take into account elevation, wind, how I'm playing etc etc. But I add to that how far I actually am from a target by using GPS. It's not the whole job but it removes one variable and I'm glad that it does.

I have to agree with poster who says it speeds up his play. No more doubt for me now. Quick glance as GPS attached to bag and (including other factors) pick my club and I'm away. As opposed to previously....

"mmmm, how far to carry that fairway bunker I wonder....170....I'll leave it....layup...wait if its only 160 even a dodgy 5 iron and I'm ok....mmmm...not sure......."

The_Architect

alxmorgan wrote: »

I have to agree with poster who says it speeds up his play. No more doubt for me now. Quick glance as GPS attached to bag and (including other factors) pick my club and I'm away. As opposed to previously....

"mmmm, how far to carry that fairway bunker I wonder....170....I'll leave it....layup...wait if its only 160 even a dodgy 5 iron and I'm ok....mmmm...not sure......."

You see,

For me, that is an integral part of what golf is. Without that mental decision making, you are removing one part of the sport. A unique part as well, given that every golf course is different.

I find that all those decisions are made by feel and eyeballing as you approach your ball. And hence it is a quicker way to play.

FixdePitchmark

@ alxmorgan

Good post, maybe it speeds up some people's play - But, if you listed the key things that slow up play it wouldn't make the top 10 - it would be after - practice swings - standing over ball - bag location - ready to play - slow walking - course design - 4 balls - etc. It would be well down the list - club selection.

The stuff I mentioned in my thought process are decided as I get to the ball - sure I'm counting from last marker - not even counting, looking sometimes, looking at green, wind.

Maybe - it is a secret I'm missing and as I improve will become more key to my game - I guess I didn't even have 2 wedges in my bag till 2 years ago, now I've 4. So, yes stay open minded.

So - yes maybe I'll try and see - but I would love to hear lads on here say - I got one and my handicap fell by 2 or 3. That is also a difficult thing to establish - because somebody who buys one is in an upper trend in their application to the game. I would be worried that there is actually contraindication on here (sorry wrong word) - but people are actually saying that when they don't have one, their ability to judge distance is gone. That would be a concern for me - why would I want to remove a skill from my game - are we now saying the ability to judge distance is now "A lost Art". Not a good thing in my eyes. People applying themselves to the number may become too dominant in the variables you have mentioned. Whilst unarguably it keeps that variable constant - it gives it an increased influence in the thought process - if you were to allow this to become over dominant on say a windy day on a links with an uphill two tiered green - you could be 3 clubs out.

Let's face it, golfers are very quick for every fad and love buying things. But, I've seen lads with them and they don't use them that much.

At the end of the day - I feel it is an electronic technological aid - that goes against the principle of sport to me. It is the human ability. Be it running - football -hurling - soccer - snooker - Imagine Ronaldo taking out a laser to judge distance - he looks at box , has feel for location and has practiced it 100,000 s of times. It is instinctive. To take it to the ridiculous illogical conclusion - why don't we just use the Robot to hit the shot from our computer at home.

Anyway - not as passionate as it comes across - no big deal - we are only having a laugh in a field. Most of us. You end up with a meaningless number and put the GPS watch back in the drawer with the Tamagotchi - the pager - the knife sharpner - the electric tin opener and the Betamax. (lol)

neckedit

I have used them all at this stage, GB Voice to the hybrid and the laser's, bushnell and the like, We sell a lot of them and to be fair to who I sell them to I like to have a working knowledge of them all.
I find them very.....eh......I dunno......eh........well I can live without them, I like technology, I think its great the way I am lying in bed typing this post while my phone tells me I got another email about getting my new smartphone upgrade or something like that. I'm not fond of the tech side on the course, and I don't say this out of any misguided love for the traditions of the game,I am a big believer in each to their own, but these things annoy me on course, when I show up to play I pick up the card and the first thing I look at is are the markers front or middle (hate markers to the middle) of the green. I often, even with all the DMD's, find myself checking my yardages off the 150 or whatever is closest, maybe its just habit and comfortable.
I used to love the wee hand drawn yardages books you'd buy for 2-3 notes at the scratch cups and PGA events years ago expertly mapped out by a guy, who's name slips my memory, but they where on the money every time. I'd love to be able to see a target and know the number by eye or play by feel all the time but I will always need a bit of help with that end of the game.

newport2

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Imagine Ronaldo taking out a laser to judge distance - he looks at box , has feel for location and has practiced it 100,000 s of times. It is instinctive. To take it to the ridiculous illogical conclusion - why don't we just use the Robot to hit the shot from our computer at home.

That might be different if the penalty spot was 250m away from the goal and changed distance for every penalty though!

I use a GPS, but once inside goalscoring range (75y or so), I rely on feel. Just look at the flag and hit.

One aspect I like about the game of golf is that they've kept us using the same equipment as the pros pretty much. Helps appreciate just how good they are sometimes (not to mention on courses set up far more difficult). But they have a caddie to give them exact yardages, and as with a Ferrari, I can't afford a caddie. So I'll use a GPS.

TBH, I don't give a s£$t what equipment anyone else uses once it's within the rules. Some people seem to a lot though.

FixdePitchmark

newport2 wrote: »

That might be different if the penalty spot was 250m away from the goal and changed distance for every penalty though!

I use a GPS, but once inside goalscoring range (75y or so), I rely on feel. Just look at the flag and hit.

One aspect I like about the game of golf is that they've kept us using the same equipment as the pros pretty much. Helps appreciate just how good they are sometimes (not to mention on courses set up far more difficult). But they have a caddie to give them exact yardages, and as with a Ferrari, I can't afford a caddie. So I'll use a GPS.

TBH, I don't give a s£$t what equipment anyone else uses once it's within the rules. Some people seem to a lot though.

Fair point,

But you do have lads on here who use them from 50 yards in and less.

Lets be honest - what's within the rules is been pushed by the industry and big money these days, as opposed to based on any principle.

But - the world turns.

alxmorgan

Some thoughtful arguments on both sides here.
What i will say is I like the fact that distance as a variable is taken out for me ?

Why...because I'm an improving golfer (hopefully) not at the game that long and when I hit a shot 20 yards short of the middle of the green at least now I know its not because I miscalculated the distance. I know the distance.

It may be I miscalculated lots of other things or just didn't hit the bloody thing very well but one less variable makes alx happy as this game is hard enough