aer lingus v ryanair

jackstaff

Which airline is better to fly with?
I've heard a few storys about ryanair cutting corners which resulted in poor flight??
True or false
Personally id pay more just to have a pleasant flight
Just thought id ask the experts. Thanks

andy_g

jackstaff wrote: »

Which airline is better to fly with?
I've heard a few storys about ryanair cutting corners which resulted in poor flight??
True or false
Personally id pay more just to have a pleasant flight
Just thought id ask the experts. Thanks

Cut corners what corners? I think false.

Shamrock231

• Based on the way they treat staff, Aer Lingus is better.
• Based on safety, both are pretty much equal, arguments could be made that zero hour contracts in Ryanair effect pilots descision making, but the effects are neither clear nor quantifiable.
• Based on on time performance, Aer Lingus has better performance out of the UK than Ryanair based on the stats, but both in reality are only marginally seperate, so for all intents and purposes they are equal.
• Based on the age of aircraft, both operate young fleets and are pretty much equal.
• Based on leg room in the cabin, Aer Lingus offer 2 inches extra per seat over Ryanair so they win there.
• Based on the ease of the website to use, for the moment Aer Lingus win but we should find out soon if Ryanair can over take them with their new site.
• Based on airports they're equal again, Aer Lingus serve central airports which are great for connections and links to the city etc, Ryanair serve more remote and less congested airports that you can get through quicker, so whatever you want really, neither win here.
• Based on profitability both are two of the airlines in Europe with the highest profit margins, so both good there.
• Based on threats of industrial action Ryanair win by a long shot, although in terms of actual industrial action Aer Lingus haven't had any recently, but it can be a worry when the unions seem to announce an intent for action every 18-24 months.
• Based on price both are reasonably similar.
• Based on how they treat you when things go wrong, Aer Lingus win by miles.

So both are fine, both have good points and bad points, it's really down to what you want on the day. Many ways to skin a cat as they say, and many ways to compare the two. While some people might consider one aspect more important when chosing an airline, others might give priority to another point, but there's no difinitive answer as to who's better unless you specify with regards to what.

veetwin

Have flown hundreds of flights with both. While I don't mind flying with Ryanair I like flying with Aer Lingus. However I will usually go with the cheapest as one is not worth paying more for than the other.

I go to Manchester a fair bit and Aer Lingus timings suit me better usually. People often forget that while Ryanair is often cheaper the timings could be unsuitable and there is big difference in travel distance and convenience in say Paris CDG and BVA

martinsvi

the problem with ryanair is not the company itself but their passengers... let me explain. EI would serve "businessy" destinations, EU capitals, good airports etc. whereas FR serve cheap middle of nowheres. if you are flying to EI destinations you will be seated amongst quiet, polite adults. If you're flying FR, you will very likely end up between holiday makers with their countless screaming children, drunk migrant workers, drunk party people, you get the picture....

there are, however, few destinations that are shared between FR and EI, for example resort towns in Spain. if you're flying those, you will see that there is no difference between two airlines whatsoever.

syklops

Shamrock231 wrote: »

• Based on the way they treat staff, Aer Lingus is better.
• Based on safety, both are pretty much equal, arguments could be made that zero hour contracts in Ryanair effect pilots descision making, but the effects are neither clear nor quantifiable.
• Based on on time performance, Aer Lingus has better performance out of the UK than Ryanair based on the stats, but both in reality are only marginally seperate, so for all intents and purposes they are equal.
• Based on the age of aircraft, both operate young fleets and are pretty much equal.
• Based on leg room in the cabin, Aer Lingus offer 2 inches extra per seat over Ryanair so they win there.
• Based on the ease of the website to use, for the moment Aer Lingus win but we should find out soon if Ryanair can over take them with their new site.
• Based on airports they're equal again, Aer Lingus serve central airports which are great for connections and links to the city etc, Ryanair serve more remote and less congested airports that you can get through quicker, so whatever you want really, neither win here.
• Based on profitability both are two of the airlines in Europe with the highest profit margins, so both good there.
• Based on threats of industrial action Ryanair win by a long shot, although in terms of actual industrial action Aer Lingus haven't had any recently, but it can be a worry when the unions seem to announce an intent for action every 18-24 months.
• Based on price both are reasonably similar.
• Based on how they treat you when things go wrong, Aer Lingus win by miles.

So both are fine, both have good points and bad points, it's really down to what you want on the day. Many ways to skin a cat as they say, and many ways to compare the two. While some people might consider one aspect more important when chosing an airline, others might give priority to another point, but there's no difinitive answer as to who's better unless you specify with regards to what.

Very well written and balanced post. They are getting so rare on Boards nowadays.

What he said OP.

Anecdotally speaking, I prefer Ryanair. More than a couple of times Aer Lingus have let me down by being late by several hours due to weather while Ryanair were only minutes late, or by being on strike. Being 6"4 I would like an extra inch legroom, but given the choice, I will fly Ryanair(aka FR) over Aer Linus where possible.

jackstaff

Shamrock231 wrote: »

• Based on the way they treat staff, Aer Lingus is better.
• Based on safety, both are pretty much equal, arguments could be made that zero hour contracts in Ryanair effect pilots descision making, but the effects are neither clear nor quantifiable.
• Based on on time performance, Aer Lingus has better performance out of the UK than Ryanair based on the stats, but both in reality are only marginally seperate, so for all intents and purposes they are equal.
• Based on the age of aircraft, both operate young fleets and are pretty much equal.
• Based on leg room in the cabin, Aer Lingus offer 2 inches extra per seat over Ryanair so they win there.
• Based on the ease of the website to use, for the moment Aer Lingus win but we should find out soon if Ryanair can over take them with their new site.
• Based on airports they're equal again, Aer Lingus serve central airports which are great for connections and links to the city etc, Ryanair serve more remote and less congested airports that you can get through quicker, so whatever you want really, neither win here.
• Based on profitability both are two of the airlines in Europe with the highest profit margins, so both good there.
• Based on threats of industrial action Ryanair win by a long shot, although in terms of actual industrial action Aer Lingus haven't had any recently, but it can be a worry when the unions seem to announce an intent for action every 18-24 months.
• Based on price both are reasonably similar.
• Based on how they treat you when things go wrong, Aer Lingus win by miles.

So both are fine, both have good points and bad points, it's really down to what you want on the day. Many ways to skin a cat as they say, and many ways to compare the two. While some people might consider one aspect more important when chosing an airline, others might give priority to another point, but there's no difinitive answer as to who's better unless you specify with regards to what.

Great reply very knowledgeable and interesting.

So are lingus isn't a more comfortable flight than Ryanair bar 2inches that's all id care about comfort and safety in the air

andy_g

Both are as safe as each other.

Jhcx

Its a personal preference.
I love Ryanair because they are a taxi service to the UK for me. i dont expect anything from them. i dont want to know them. i get on i sit down and i get off at my location. for 20 quid thats cheaper than getting home from town. personally if i was going to be spending over 2hrs flying i would prefer to go with Aer lingus or a legacy airline. simply by choice. but both will do the same get you from a to b and you pay for what you get. Both are great airlines and its good that they have different products. If they both had the same product, flew same destinations well then one is surely going to go belly up.

hfallada

Whats the difference anymore? Aer Lingus these days eventually copies what ryanair does with any charges eg credit cards fees, baggage etc. But I prefer that Aer Lingus flies into the airports in the city rather than a couple of miles away from the city. I find the "stellar customer services" in each airline equal.

tigershould

Aer Lingus has full reserved seating. Ryanair is only reserved for about 6 rows (1,2, emergency exit which all have considerable leg room).

Aer Lingus app is very handy for boarding cArd. Ryanair you have to print at least 4hrs in advance.

Aer Lingus fly from T2 in DUB. Ryanair from t1 (long walk)

JustAThought

Ryanair win. I used to fly regularly ( every 10 days or so) for work to the UK - Ryanair always flew - that I would assume is a basic - Aer Lingus frequently cancelled flights & made you wait for the " next" " also not filled flight". Are Lingus did this to my flights so frequently that I will no longer fly with them either for business meetings nor connecting flights to or from long haul flights.

You know the rules with Ryanair ( or should!!) but you also know they will actually fly, and keep to their schedule . Priceless.

JustAThought

tigershould wrote: »

Aer Lingus has full reserved seating. Ryanair is only reserved for about 6 rows (1,2, emergency exit which all have considerable leg room).


I think you cannot reserve these seats - the rest you can.

Aer Lingus app is very handy for boarding cArd. Ryanair you have to print.

If wifi is down or affected Byron do not get on your flight.

Aer Lingus fly from T2 in DUB. Ryanair from t1

Taxi drops at T1 - no drop offs outside T2.also long walk .

suerte

JustAThought wrote: »

Taxi drops at T1 - no drop offs outside T2.also long walk .

never knew there wasnt a taxi drop at t2

irish_goat

Ryanair's inflight magazine is miles better than Aer Lingus'.

IRLConor

JustAThought wrote: »

Taxi drops at T1 - no drop offs outside T2.also long walk .

Eh, what? Of course there are drop offs outside T2. I've gotten a taxi to T2 tons of times.

suerte

pretty good analysis, i thought i'd add some additonal info..

Shamrock231 wrote: »

• Based on the way they treat staff, Aer Lingus is better. i'm not disagreeing but its arguable, have you worked for both? i guess you're talking about flight crew and the fact that ryr dont recognise unions. the way aer lingus are treating their SNN cabin crew currenlty seems pretty underhand
• Based on safety, both are pretty much equal, arguments could be made that zero hour contracts in Ryanair effect pilots descision making, but the effects are neither clear nor quantifiable.
• Based on on time performance, Aer Lingus has better performance out of the UK than Ryanair based on the stats, but both in reality are only marginally seperate, so for all intents and purposes they are equal. depends on route i find, ryr claim over 90% on time arrivals - aerlingus dont publish. one thing is that ryr will not wait at the gate if your late. ei will give you right to the last minute, which i've seen cause delays departing before
• Based on the age of aircraft, both operate young fleets and are pretty much equal. aer lingus have 48 aircraft with an average age of 8.2 years. ryanair have 303 aircraft with average age of 5.1 years
• Based on leg room in the cabin, Aer Lingus offer 2 inches extra per seat over Ryanair so they win there. you can prebook the emergency exits on ryr which have additinla leg room
• Based on the ease of the website to use, for the moment Aer Lingus win but we should find out soon if Ryanair can over take them with their new site.
• Based on airports they're equal again, Aer Lingus serve central airports which are great for connections and links to the city etc, Ryanair serve more remote and less congested airports that you can get through quicker, so whatever you want really, neither win here.
• Based on profitability both are two of the airlines in Europe with the highest profit margins, so both good there. [/b] EI made a €70 million operating profit in 2012. ryr made over €500 million [/b]
• Based on threats of industrial action Ryanair win by a long shot, although in terms of actual industrial action Aer Lingus haven't had any recently, but it can be a worry when the unions seem to announce an intent for action every 18-24 months. ryr operated ei flights in 2011 when ei crew went on strike
• Based on price both are reasonably similar. depends what time you book. if you book ryr early they will normally be cheaper. if you book late ryr will almost always be more expensive
• Based on how they treat you when things go wrong, Aer Lingus win by miles. [/b] true but i've had mixed experience with both, depends where you are and whats gone wrong, who you're dealing with. there are EU standards that both adhere to[/b]

So both are fine, both have good points and bad points, it's really down to what you want on the day. Many ways to skin a cat as they say, and many ways to compare the two. While some people might consider one aspect more important when chosing an airline, others might give priority to another point, but there's no difinitive answer as to who's better unless you specify with regards to what. completely agree

billie1b

suerte wrote: »

pretty good analysis, i thought i'd add some additonal info..

"depends on route i find, ryr claim over 90% on time arrivals - aerlingus dont publish. one thing is that ryr will not wait at the gate if your late. ei will give you right to the last minute, which i've seen cause delays departing before"

I'm a dispatcher for RYR and I can tell you that i'll only go without pax if i'm certain they will not show, I have often waited til departure time or even after it by a few minutes for pax, it's easier for everyone that way

brandon_flowers

IRLConor wrote: »

Eh, what? Of course there are drop offs outside T2. I've gotten a taxi to T2 tons of times.

Taxi drop is right outside the door of T2.

On topic they are both low fares for short haul with great safety records. As one poster alluded to earlier, the passengers are the worst problem flying with Ryanair. All sorts of clowns thinking they will get away with bringing the biggest suitcase they can find onboard and then making a big song and dance when they have to pay to put it in the hold. Rules are rules, it is written in big letters everywhere while you are making your booking. Also the scrummaging to get to the gate only to be herded on to a bus most times is comical, they are not going to let more people than seats onto the plane. Aer Lingus at least will have the more relaxed passengers.

I don't use either of them for personal or business use but that is my choice due to frequent flyer benefits but I had to use Ryaniar in an emergency earlier this year. Ryanair did nothing wrong but it was still a horrible experience due to the passengers.

suerte

billie1b wrote: »

I have often waited til departure time or even after it by a few minutes for pax, it's easier for everyone that way

dont let O'Leary hear you say that :P

i've been at the gate 10 mins before departure at DUB and been refused and i've been at the gate at -5 and the girl radioed down and they opened the gate. i guess this goes back to my depends "who you get" comment. with aer lingus i find they always wait even past STD if you've checked-in.

HeidiHeidi

Allowing for timings and proximity of airport to where I actually want to go, I would always choose Aer Lingus over Ryanair simply for the blissful silence you get once you're up and cruising.

I flew only Ryanair for years, and when I finally got around to AL, I couldn't believe the peace and quiet you get. No cabin crew rampaging up and down the aisles selling you papers, magazines, food, drinks, scratch cards, pretend cigarettes and goodness knows what else.

I know (or at least I think I know) that they're on comission for most of these, so I'm not blaming the cabin crew themselves - but do they really HAVE to shriek into the microphone at the top of their voices :eek: Suppose there's not much buying power in passengers if they're all fast asleep.....

billie1b

suerte wrote: »

dont let O'Leary hear you say that :P

i've been at the gate 10 mins before departure at DUB and been refused and i've been at the gate at -5 and the girl radioed down and they opened the gate. i guess this goes back to my depends "who you get" comment. with aer lingus i find they always wait even past STD if you've checked-in.

Ha ha, he's not as bad as everyone makes him out to be, its the couple underneath him you have to watch out for.

yeah I suppose it just depends on who you get, can make a big difference.

over the last couple of years we have gotten a good few business pax from Shamrock converting to RYR, they say its an easier service, more on-time and staff are better to deal with.

It just down to personal preference, I fly with both airlines, depending where I am going, RYR fly to a lot more main airports than people are led to believe

Bessarion

I hate these threads. I am of the opinion that it is great that we can have these discussions however. With only 1 airline we would have little or no choice.....we are quite lucky in that we have the option (luxury?) of most times being able to choose between FR or EI.

JustAThought wrote: »

Taxi drops at T1 - no drop offs outside T2.also long walk .

I always get dropped off outside T2.....I have to cross a pedestrian crossing but I'm in there 30 secs after getting out of the cab.




@suerte: EI crew didn't go on strike in 2011....the company suspended them for not accepting unilateral imposition of new working conditions.
Reading the EI press release it seems EI are playing hardball in relations to the B757 operation too.
(FYI US carriers use 6 crew on their international B757's, Icelandair use 5 crew on their [shorter] flights to the USA)

suerte

Bessarion wrote: »

@suerte: EI crew didn't go on strike in 2011....the company suspended them for not accepting unilateral imposition of new working conditions.
Reading the EI press release it seems EI are playing hardball in relations to the B757 operation too.
(FYI US carriers use 6 crew on their international B757's, Icelandair use 5 crew on their [shorter] flights to the USA)

i stand corrected, i knew there was staff unrest about something. - i just remember booking an EI flight to Brussels and then when i arrived at the aircraft it was ryr. i thought i'd got on the wrong aircraft

keith16

If you are travelling with a family / young kids, Aer Lingus wins. They don't have the incessant noise coming over the PA that Ryanair does, which means the little 'uns can't sleep.

I think if you are flying past 9pm or so on a flight that is 2 hrs plus, do everyone a favour:

- dim the lights
- don't make announcements every two minutes
- don't run a cabin service
- only serve food to the plebs who didn't manage to feed themselves the previous 10 hours of the day

Shamrock231

suerte wrote: »

i'm not disagreeing but its arguable, have you worked for both? i guess you're talking about flight crew and the fact that ryr dont recognise unions. the way aer lingus are treating their SNN cabin crew currenlty seems pretty underhand

I would say that the zero hour contracts employed by Ryanair are far less than than the steady income provided by the likes of Aer Lingus. I'd say things like being able to terminate contracts at the drop of a hat doesn't add to the employees comfort in Ryanair. I have worked for neither FR or EI, so can only go on what I've heard from speaking with different people about how they feel in the different companies and the difference is stark.

suerte wrote: »

depends on route i find, ryr claim over 90% on time arrivals - aerlingus dont publish. one thing is that ryr will not wait at the gate if your late. ei will give you right to the last minute, which i've seen cause delays departing before

http://www.flightontime.info/scheduled/airports/lgw12.html
If we compare this link for last years timings, we can see that for the year Aer Lingus was the 5th most punctual airline out of Gatwick, and Ryanair the 8th. Average EI delay was 7.64 minutes, average FR delay was 8.09. Both FR only operates to Dublin from LGW, EI operates to DUB, NOC, and BHD as well as longer charter flights.

http://www.flightontime.info/
At the moment operating from the UK EI is the 3rd most punctual airline, Ryanair the 4th. So as far as I can see from that sample, they're pretty much tied.

suerte wrote: »

aer lingus have 48 aircraft with an average age of 8.2 years. ryanair have 303 aircraft with average age of 5.1 years

3.1 years is pretty much equal, both have averages below 10 years old which means the fleets are pretty young. While Ryanair does have a lower average age, in effect again they're pretty much equal from that point of view, with both fleets being young and modern.

suerte wrote: »

you can prebook the emergency exits on ryr which have additinla leg room

You can do the same on Aer Lingus, but for the other 150 passengers, if you pick Aer Lingus you'll get 2 more inches of leg room, and the Aer Lingus exit row passengers will get even more. Not everyone can sit in the exit rows, or if they did that extra leg room would diminish pretty rapidly... :pac:

suerte wrote: »

EI made a €70 million operating profit in 2012. ryr made over €500 million

Yes, indeed FR made a much larger profit, but they're a much larger airline, so of course they will, the best way to look at it is not net profit, but the profit margin, as then you can compare the two better. Keep in mind that Aer Lingus flew 9 million people last year, and Ryanair flew 81 million, so they were 9 times larger than Aer Lingus, but they're profits were not 9 times larger than Aer Lingus, so at a rough guess I'd take that to mean EI have a higher profit margin than FR, but I'm no accountant. But you are correct that in net profit terms, Ryanair made more than EI.

suerte wrote: »

ryr operated ei flights in 2011 when ei crew went on strike

Correct, but it was still very annoying for EI passengers not knowing what the situation would be around their flight until the last minute, so EI absolutely loses out big time there, even if the flights went ahead in the end.

suerte wrote: »

depends what time you book. if you book ryr early they will normally be cheaper. if you book late ryr will almost always be more expensive

Agreed.

billie1b

Shamrock231 wrote: »

Both FR only operates to Dublin from LGW, EI operates to DUB, NOC, and BHD as well as longer charter flights.

Ryanair operate Cork and Shannon from Gatwick

Shamrock231

billie1b wrote: »

Ryanair operate Cork and Shannon from Gatwick

Ooops, my bad, didn't realise they'd launched those routes. Sorry.

billie1b

Shamrock231 wrote: »

Ooops, my bad, didn't realise they'd launched those routes. Sorry.

No need to apologise, was just informing you, you never know when flights you didn't know existed come in handy

suerte

good constructive comments on this thread.

makes a change from the "oh, i never fly with ryr cos they x or ryr revolutionised air travel o'leary for president" guff.

i think the Op needs to clarify what is termed "a pleasant flight"

-i think once on board, the difference comes down to whether you consider blaring pa's and incessant sales pitch from crew as unpleasant. if you do then EI wins! personally i always travel with noise reduction headphones and the pa's dont bother me.

-i think the other "unpleasant" stuff can be avoided on ryr (eg book priority/reserved seating so youre not part of the cattle rush, book emergency exit if you want extra leg room).

-i have to agree with unsavory pax comment though, ryr do carry some knackers

homerjay2005

Shamrock231 wrote: »

• Based on the way they treat staff, Aer Lingus is better.
• Based on safety, both are pretty much equal, arguments could be made that zero hour contracts in Ryanair effect pilots descision making, but the effects are neither clear nor quantifiable.
• Based on on time performance, Aer Lingus has better performance out of the UK than Ryanair based on the stats, but both in reality are only marginally seperate, so for all intents and purposes they are equal.
• Based on the age of aircraft, both operate young fleets and are pretty much equal.
• Based on leg room in the cabin, Aer Lingus offer 2 inches extra per seat over Ryanair so they win there.
• Based on the ease of the website to use, for the moment Aer Lingus win but we should find out soon if Ryanair can over take them with their new site.
• Based on airports they're equal again, Aer Lingus serve central airports which are great for connections and links to the city etc, Ryanair serve more remote and less congested airports that you can get through quicker, so whatever you want really, neither win here.
• Based on profitability both are two of the airlines in Europe with the highest profit margins, so both good there.
• Based on threats of industrial action Ryanair win by a long shot, although in terms of actual industrial action Aer Lingus haven't had any recently, but it can be a worry when the unions seem to announce an intent for action every 18-24 months.
• Based on price both are reasonably similar.
• Based on how they treat you when things go wrong, Aer Lingus win by miles.

this has to be one of the most biased posts iver ever seen on this forum. if i wanted to chose an airline based on realiability, being on time and cost effective, Ryanair wins hands down and the threat of industrial action is one that is just too big a risk with Aer Lingus.

not sure how you meanure when things go wrong, you get on and off the f*cking plane and be done with it. based on Ryanair having a bigger fleet they are better equipped to deal with the problems that Aerlingus have.

for example, a group of 12 of us were going to a match during bad weather, 9 on ryanair, 3 on Aer lingus....the 9 with Ryanair made it, the Aer Lingus flight was cancelled...same time, same 2 airports.

to say Aerlingus and Ryanair are equal on fleet and profitability is just madness, Ryanair are best of breed in both.

Shamrock231

homerjay2005 wrote: »

this has to be one of the most biased posts iver ever seen on this forum. if i wanted to chose an airline based on realiability, being on time and cost effective, Ryanair wins hands down and the threat of industrial action is one that is just too big a risk with Aer Lingus.

not sure how you meanure when things go wrong, you get on and off the f*cking plane and be done with it. based on Ryanair having a bigger fleet they are better equipped to deal with the problems that Aerlingus have.

for example, a group of 12 of us were going to a match during bad weather, 9 on ryanair, 3 on Aer lingus....the 9 with Ryanair made it, the Aer Lingus flight was cancelled...same time, same 2 airports.

to say Aerlingus and Ryanair are equal on fleet and profitability is just madness, Ryanair are best of breed in both.

You are aware I put down the constant threat of strikes as a plus for Ryanair right?

And you did read the previous post where in fact if you look at the profit margins, Aer Lingus have a higher profit margin than Ryanair right?

It's not a biased post, it looks at all the points people typically compare two airlines on and puts Ryanair against Aer Lingus, Ryanair win in some, Aer Lingus in others, as I said, it all depends on what you're looking for.

MuffinsDa

homerjay2005 wrote: »

to say Aerlingus and Ryanair are equal on fleet and profitability is just madness, Ryanair are best of breed in both.

In choosing an airline, THEIR profitability would NOT be one of my criteria! After all the more profitable they are, the better they probably are at screwing their passengers!

Shamrock231

MuffinsDa wrote: »

In choosing an airline, THEIR profitability would NOT be one of my criteria! After all the more profitable they are, the better they probably are at screwing their passengers!

LOL, exactly, or also how bloated/not bloated they are with regards to staff and overheads, and both EI and FR seem to have both those pretty well under control.

I'd also say that in the case of EI vs. FR, the fact EI can carry cargo as they fly to central Cargo Hubs like FRA/LHR/CDG/AMS means that they have that extra source of revenue that FR must instead make up from their passengers, but in the end of the day, that's irrelevant really to the passengers on the day.

homerjay2005

Shamrock231 wrote: »

You are aware I put down the constant threat of strikes as a plus for Ryanair right?

out of 11 criteria, you gave Ryanair the advantage in one, when in the majority of the others, its down to opinion. if that is not biased, then i dont know what is.

some of these points are completely irrelevant and nothing to do with what most passengers care about. for instance, i dont care if your opinion thinks Aer Lingus treats their staff better.....Aer Lingus staff are unionised and treat the airline like s*it with their constant battles, so that is much more important for most people.

Aerlingus have their advantages, but a bit of balance wouldnt go astray.

whitebriar

In my opinion,Shamrock raises good points.
That said ,there's no simple menu for choosing between,it is a basic choice of your budget and what's the flight for.

If like me you always try to grab a front row,are hand luggage only and want point to point,then Fr are attractive.
No bulk head in row 1 on Fr puts it ahead of Ei if that's your seat,especially since Ei have no shorthaul priority boarding and you get that with buying your seat on Fr.

Regarding Ei,the strikes wouldn't stop me going with them,they aren't on strike every day,month or year lol.It happens but rarely.Not an issue.

So its down to price and which airport for me.Usually Fr win out on that but Ei's current half price sale might top them now.
If I'm connecting long haul,Ba is my choice at the moment as I would normally use avios.Next year,they're either going into T3 in Lhr or T5.
If the former even,for one worlders with status,full access to CX,AA, and BA lounges its a big thing.

Shamrock231

homerjay2005 wrote: »

out of 11 criteria, you gave Ryanair the advantage in one, when in the majority of the others, its down to opinion. if that is not biased, then i dont know what is.

some of these points are completely irrelevant and nothing to do with what most passengers care about. for instance, i dont care if your opinion thinks Aer Lingus treats their staff better.....Aer Lingus staff are unionised and treat the airline like s*it with their constant battles, so that is much more important for most people.

Aerlingus have their advantages, but a bit of balance wouldnt go astray.

I think in most of the points you'll see I put both on equal standing and presented both sides of the argument where there was one... :rolleyes: In fact if you look at it it went: EI, Equal, Equal, Equal, EI, Awaiting Results, Equal, Equal, FR, Equal, EI. So EI:3, FR:1, Equal: 7. Not exactly highly biased, no?

And I care how Ryanair treat their employees, it's a principal of mine and a reason I look else where when flying. My money and I can do what I like with it. Same way some people don't look at Ryanair if they're 6'10", same way some people don't look at Aer Lingus if they're more expensive, same way some people don't look at Aer Lingus if there's a strike threat, same way some people look at EI or FR depending on flight times as the only time that suits them to fly is 9pm on Friday night and only one airline flies then.

People make decisions on a wide range of reasons, for me, and I'm sure I'm not alone, how they treat their employees is something I take into account, but maybe that's just my pro-union upbringing... :rolleyes:

Based on the comments that followed my post most people seem to think my post was balanced and looked at both sides of the arguments.

billie1b

Shamrock231 wrote: »

I think in most of the points you'll see I put both on equal standing and presented both sides of the argument where there was one... :rolleyes:

And I care how Ryanair treat their employees, it's a principal of mine and a reason I look else where when flying. My money and I can do what I like with it. Same way some people don't look at Ryanair if they're 6'10", same way some people don't look at Aer Lingus if they're more expensive, same way some people don't look at Aer Lingus if there's a strike threat, same way some people look at EI or FR depending on flight times as the only time that suits them to fly is 9pm on Friday night and only one airline flies then.

People make decisions on a wide range of reasons, for me, and I'm sure I'm not alone, how they treat their employees is something I take into account, but maybe that's just my pro-union upbringing... :rolleyes:

Based on the comments that followed my post most people seem to think my post was balanced and looked at both sides of the arguments.

Lads I have to say, in my 10 years working for Ryanair (Ryanair itself, not an agency) I haven't had any problems with anyone treating me badly. We've all had run ins with management and say they treat us like **** but 99% of the time they are quite good, if you questioned a lot of the staff about their problems with Ryanair you'd actually find out its the agency they are dealing with not Ryanair. Just my opinion

Shamrock231

billie1b wrote: »

Lads I have to say, in my 10 years working for Ryanair (Ryanair itself, not an agency) I haven't had any problems with anyone treating me badly. We've all had run ins with management and say they treat us like **** but 99% of the time they are quite good, if you questioned a lot of the staff about their problems with Ryanair you'd actually find out its the agency they are dealing with not Ryanair. Just my opinion

Indeed, as you say it's the agency, I've spoken with 2 FR pilots and a Cabin Crew member and 1 EI pilot and 1 EI CC. The FR pilots complaints are all to do with the way their agency works and the way they're treated when it comes to not knowing where they stand with regards to base allocation.

Both EI crew I talked with had nothing negative at all to say. But agency work is part and parcel of FR, 70% of their pilots are agency, although as far as I know that agency is owned by FR itself, so it comes back full circle to FR. So while not directly aimed at FR, it is a product of the way FR deals with it's pilot/crew agency.

Just my €0.02.

suerte

Shamrock231 wrote: »

...I've spoken with 2 FR pilots and a Cabin Crew member ...

3 staff members out of 9,000 hardly consititutes fact

Shamrock231

suerte wrote: »

3 staff members out of 9,000 hardly consititutes fact

No, but they both said similar things, and it matched with what gets said on the likes of the internet like, so I'd take it as pretty good, albeit my sample size is tiny... If you like, the confirmed what had been said online for me, but I understand if people don't treat them as an accurate depiction of everyone at FR.

afatbollix

Feck both of them..

I only fly up front on BA.

Davidth88

homerjay2005 wrote: »

this has to be one of the most biased posts iver ever seen on this forum. if i wanted to chose an airline based on realiability, being on time and cost effective, Ryanair wins hands down and the threat of industrial action is one that is just too big a risk with Aer Lingus.

not sure how you meanure when things go wrong, you get on and off the f*cking plane and be done with it. based on Ryanair having a bigger fleet they are better equipped to deal with the problems that Aerlingus have.

TBH , I thought Shamrock's post was excellent and very objective

What I would say about ' when things go wrong ' , what he meant was that if a flight is canx then FR basically say ' tough luck , here is is your 99c back ' and leave you high and dry ( and you can get your tax back if you apply though our long winded and painful process ) . Whereas EI will look after you , ie put you on the next flight, or work something out for you.

This is very obvious when you read the stories of people who get stuck at the aerodrome FR call Paris and the next flight is not for 2 days and FR basically walk away from you.

Shamrock , feel free to correct me if I am making wrong assumptions about your post .

BTW , FR were not always like this , I remember clearly a Christmas Eve in the early 90's in STN where there were delays and problems because of fog and FR juggled people about and got everyone home even laying on coaches to Luton.

suerte

Davidth88 wrote: »

What I would say about ' when things go wrong ' , what he meant was that if a flight is canx then FR basically say ' tough luck , here is is your 99c back ' and leave you high and dry ( and you can get your tax back if you apply though our long winded and painful process ) . Whereas EI will look after you , ie put you on the next flight, or work something out for you.

WRONG!

FR are obliged by ec regulations to provide compensation based on the distance of the flight, and to provide care (ie food, hotel accomodation, any other reasonable expenses) - the same as every other airline.

bikeman1

I have had FR get me home one night at Luton during heavy snow. All other airlines had given up hope. FR kept watching the forecast. The snow stopped, around midnight. FR dispatched an aircraft from DUB in the hope that the airport would re-open. It did. Plane landed, picked us up and departed at 0130 back to Dublin.

RE and Wizz gave up, and had big queues to try and sort accommodation and flights out. Meanwhile we were on our way back to DUB at the earliest opportunity.

I have had a change of flight times with them and they have transferred me for free onto another one.

I have printed two return boarding passes and not the outbound and return. When I went to the desk, they could see I had checked in online and made a genuine mistake. They issued me with a boarding pass straight away for free.

Oh and over 90% of Ryanair flights I have been on arrived on time.

The horror stories people have about FR are a bit old from 5+ years ago. These days they are very easy to deal with in my experience.

View Profile

suerte wrote: »

3 staff members out of 9,000 hardly consititutes fact

Yeah but over 1000 pilots do have genuine greivances with how Ryanair aka Brookifield aka Storm McGinley treat their staff.

When the Director of Flight Operations of a company in a meeting with staff openly states; "We don't give a f*ck about loyality. If you have a problem with it, quit."
, this kind of puts across a negative feeling with regards how management view staff.

Most airlines value the experienced staff members, as their wealth of knowledge over the years will assist in training in the newer staff members. Ryanair however does not seem to regard this as important.

strettyend

having flown with both aerlingus and Ryanair I can honestly say if there is not much difference on price I will opt for aerlingus always. Reason been you are treated much better -in my opinion.

suerte

View Profile wrote: »

Yeah but over 1000 pilots do have genuine greivances with how Ryanair aka Brookifield aka Storm McGinley treat their staff.

When the Director of Flight Operations of a company in a meeting with staff openly states; "We don't give a f*ck about loyality. If you have a problem with it, quit."
, this kind of puts across a negative feeling with regards how management view staff.

Most airlines value the experienced staff members, as their wealth of knowledge over the years will assist in training in the newer staff members. Ryanair however does not seem to regard this as important.

do 1000 pilots have grievances? grievances like pay and hours i guess? sure dont we all want more money for working less hours.

even 1000 pilots is only 10% of their overall staff so i find sweeping generalisations like "fr treat their staff badly" a bit of an exageration. there's not many companies that have a 100% happy workforce.

and i guess for FR, pilots are two a penny, they have a pretty good training machine that keeps churning out new pilots and because they are so succesful and operate so many flights, they're quite an attractive company to work for as a pilot.

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No the issue is not over getting paid more or working fewer hours.

The issue is getting time off to attend the birth of your child.
The issue is being told you sign the new contract or get fired.
The issue is being based somewhere 1000 miles from your wife and children, where there are no direct flights to your home, so you end up spending your 3 days off commuting at your own expense just so you can spend 36 hours with them before having to return for another 6 nights of work.
The issue is working up to 10 months of the year before being granted any holiday leave.
The issue is being forced to take several winter months off, unpaid, due lack of work.
The issue is not knowing each month how much you will earn and whether you will receive enough hours to pay the rent, training loans, and airline ticket flights hometo see your kids.

There are many many more genuine greivances suerte, I don't have all day to go into them.
And believe me the number of staff who face such treatment is far higher than 1,000!

bikeman1

I thought Ryanair crew can fly home for free on Standby? I have seen many crew flying to/from the bases as passengers. Especially on STN flights from/to another base.

Granted if you don't live where Ryanair serve, you would have to pay for a flight, but thats not their fault. Anyone able to confirm whether crew fly for free on standby for getting to/from there base.

They are always in full uniform when they are travelling.

suerte

View Profile wrote: »

No the issue is not over getting paid more or working fewer hours.

The issue is getting time off to attend the birth of your child.
The issue is being told you sign the new contract or get fired.
The issue is being based somewhere 1000 miles from your wife and children, where there are no direct flights to your home, so you end up spending your 3 days off commuting at your own expense just so you can spend 36 hours with them before having to return for another 6 nights of work.
The issue is working up to 10 months of the year before being granted any holiday leave.
The issue is being forced to take several winter months off, unpaid, due lack of work.
The issue is not knowing each month how much you will earn and whether you will receive enough hours to pay the rent, training loans, and airline ticket flights hometo see your kids.

There are many many more genuine greivances suerte, I don't have all day to go into them.
And believe me the number of staff who face such treatment is far higher than 1,000!

welcome to the aviation industry! where you're expected to travel and may be away from your family, where the business dries up during winter and there may be less flying (but you'll still do your 900 hours per year)!

most of these "grievances" are not unique to FR.

i think we're off topic but my point is that not ALL staff at RYR are treated badly, and the ones that are are in the minority (same as most businesses - eg i know a guy who worked for Deutsche Bank who wasnt allowed to take leave for the birth of his child - doesnt mean everyone at DB is refused).

i know quite a few FR DUB based pilots and they all seem very happy. they leave their family home in DUB in the morning and they arrive back after their days work and head back to their families. this is quite attractive to them rather than overnighting away from their families around europe/the world like other airlines.