Safe distance to oncoming car during overtaking?

CiniO

When you are planning to overtake a vehicle on single carriageway road, what distance would you consider safe to the oncoming car?

I.e. when you move to right lane, overtake and come back to your lane, so in this particular moment how close the oncoming car might be so you would consider the manuover fully safe?

Obviously it greatly depend on speed of you and oncoming car, so probably better to measure in time?

So f.e. after returning to left lane after overtaking, how many seconds would you expect to last, before you pass with oncoming car?

dgt

Depends on the speed of the car infront, gradient of the road, power of the car I'm driving etc. plenty of variables with no definite answer

CiniO

dgt wrote: »

Depends on the speed of the car infront, gradient of the road, power of the car I'm driving etc. plenty of variables with no definite answer

OK, but let's skip actually the time of overtaking manouver.
Assume you were overtaking and you finished (returned to your lane).
How far the oncoming car would you expect to be at that moment, that you could be happy that you overtook safely.
Gradient of road, and power of car makes difference in time overtaking itself will last, but lets leave that. Just after overtaking.

Cee-Jay-Cee

So long as you are back in ir your own side of the road so ss not to cause the oncoming car to have to swerve to avoid you is sufficient. Distance doesn't really come into it.

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy

Once the wing mirrors don't touch you're cool

CiniO

CJC999 wrote: »

So long as you are back in ir your own side of the road so ss not to cause the oncoming car to have to swerve to avoid you is sufficient. Distance doesn't really come into it.

See if the distance is too small, even if you would finish your overtaking in time, oncoming driver might get scared and step on the brakes or swerve because he won't be sure if you will make it, even if you would.
So surely there is some minimum, and I'm just curious of your opinion what this distance (possibly best measured in time) would be.

F.e. if you finish overtaking and pass oncoming car in 0.5 / 1 / 2 / 4 / 6 / 8 / 10 seconds, would that be enough?

dgt

CiniO wrote: »

OK, but let's skip actually the time of overtaking manouver.
Assume you were overtaking and you finished (returned to your lane).
How far the oncoming car would you expect to be at that moment, that you could be happy that you overtook safely.
Gradient of road, and power of car makes difference in time overtaking itself will last, but lets leave that. Just after overtaking.

Once again, very hard to gauge that. At different speeds the definition of safe distance changes. Like overtaking a late 70's tractor is going to be different to overtaking that artic on a 100kmh road and each will have different levels of fallback space.....

biko

When pulling back in after overtaking, please make sure to have appropriate distance between you and the car behind. I've been cut off many times by people that can't judge distance properly.
An easy way to gauge if you have distance is that you should be able to see the whole front of the car in your rear view mirror before pulling in in front.

As to oncoming traffic, if you cannot complete the manoeuvre and be back in your lane with many seconds to spare, don't do it.

ron jambo

On comming car shouldn't even have to think they need to brake.

CiniO

biko wrote: »

When pulling back in after overtaking, please make sure to have appropriate distance between you and the car behind. I've been cut off many times by people that can't judge distance properly.
An easy way to gauge if you have distance is that you should be able to see the whole front of the car in your rear view mirror before pulling in in front.

That's obvious.

As to oncoming traffic, if you cannot complete the manoeuvre and be back in your lane with many seconds to spare, don't do it.

Question is - how many?

thecomedian

6+ once your back in I guess, I really don't like the idea of overtaking when you can see an oncoming car.

BMJD

hard to put a figure on it but I'd like to think that I would be at least 10 seconds away from near certain death for the sake of saving a few seconds on my journey

corktina

Johnny Electricity wrote: »

Once the wing mirrors don't touch you're cool

you have wing mirrors? not seen them since the 70s

OldmanMondeo

12

bladespin

Oncoming car - very hard to judge, how can you tell what speed they're travelling at, you may have a lot less time than you think, there's also the possibility that whatever you're overtaking may speed-up 'hanging you out there', been caught out a couple of times and don't want to repeat the experience TBH.

MadYaker

There is no answer to this because the distance between you and the oncoming car is constantly changing.

Id go with the poster above though, the oncoming car shouldn't even have to consider braking.

CiniO

bladespin wrote: »

Oncoming car - very hard to judge, how can you tell what speed they're travelling at, you may have a lot less time than you think, there's also the possibility that whatever you're overtaking may speed-up 'hanging you out there', been caught out a couple of times and don't want to repeat the experience TBH.

Judging other vehicles speed is rather on of the most basic skills needed for driving.

CiniO

OldmanMondeo wrote: »

12

You are aware, that in case of you and oncoming car travelling both at 100km/h, if you meet in 12 seconds there is over 650m metres gap between you. Normally then you would barely see that car from this distance.

thecomedian

CiniO wrote: »

Judging other vehicles speed is rather on of the most basic skills needed for driving.

I would disagree on it being a basic skill.
Overtaking isn't a must.

I'd rarely overtake when I'm in a low powered car, it's easy in my own.

CiniO

MadYaker wrote: »

There is no answer to this because the distance between you and the oncoming car is constantly changing.

That's why I'm asking on distance at certain moment (when you finish overtaking).



Id go with the poster above though, the oncoming car shouldn't even have to consider braking.[/QUOTE]

Padkir

thecomedian wrote: »

6+ once your back in I guess, I really don't like the idea of overtaking when you can see an oncoming car.

I hate this thinking; leads to very frustrated drivers! If a car behind someone going slow refuses to overtake because there's an oncoming car half a mile up the road, it's really annoying, because where it might be safe for the first car or two to overtake, the ones behind that who do want to overtake can't.

doolox

That the oncoming car will accelerate when the driver sees "his" lane occupied.
The overtaken car may also accelerate as the overtaken driver feels "insulted" by being overtaken. All factors such as hills, visibility, side roads, headwinds and activity on footpaths etc need to be taken into account before commiting to an overtaking maneouvre.

If you see a high performance car behind a slow driving car and no hazards ahead you need to ask yourself straight away, what does he see that you don't see?

A local driver may have more detailed knowledge than you and may decide to play it safe, bad road surfaces, hidden entrances, peculiarly bad driving practices by local residents etc that HE knows about but you may not be aware of.

It needs just a few seconds to process these bits of info and it has saved me on many occasions.

Obvious ones are not to overtake approaching junctions and side roads or loading bays where stuff is happening or bus stops where people are embarking or disemarking.

The well known aphorism is that speed kills but inappropriately slow speed or stopping inappropriately and stopping suddenly on busy roads, the "sins" of older people in cars, is just as deadly as high speed in the wrong place.

CiniO

thecomedian wrote: »

I would disagree on it being a basic skill.
Overtaking isn't a must.

Sometimes it is, f.e. if it's a tractor or cyclist. And even though they are slow, vehicles oncoming might not be that slow, so you need to be aware how far they are and how quick they will appear near you.

Also overtaking is only one example when judging speed of other vehicles is needed.
Other one - why more frequently used - is just emerging into main road, where you have to give way to vehicles travelling on the main road.

No way you could pass your driving test, without being able to judge speed of other vehicles.

fullstop

CiniO wrote: »

That's why I'm asking on distance at certain moment (when you finish overtaking).

Well you seem to know the answer, so why don't you tell us?

Dubl07

corktina wrote: »

you have wing mirrors? not seen them since the 70s

I think we all knew what he meant.

I prefer a six second interval or thereabouts but that's entirely arbitrary.

It depends on time of day, light, moisture levels, hard shoulders, junctions, gradient, speed limit and what kind of vehicle I'm passing. Also the brand and registration of the vehicle I'm passing and the gender of the person behind the wheel. There are too many variables to narrow it down to a simple countdown.

thecomedian

Padkir wrote: »

I hate this thinking; leads to very frustrated drivers! If a car behind someone going slow refuses to overtake because there's an oncoming car half a mile up the road, it's really annoying, because where it might be safe for the first car or two to overtake, the ones behind that who do want to overtake can't.

Why don't you just overtake the car in front of you so?

CiniO

thecomedian wrote: »

Why don't you just overtake the car in front of you so?

Very often those "unwilling to overtake" don't keep enough distance to car in front, so there is hardly any space to mount there.

Padkir

thecomedian wrote: »

Why don't you just overtake the car in front of you so?

Because more often than not they haven't left enough room in front to safely do this. (Another one of my pet hates).

I understand what you're saying. I have no problem with someone not overtaking if they hang back and give other people the opportunity to hop one car at a time.

Unfortunately, this rarely happens...

CiniO

fullstop wrote: »

Well you seem to know the answer, so why don't you tell us?

See, in Poland where I learnt to drive when I was younger, rather rules shown by CJC999 and Johnny Electricity work.

CJC999 wrote: »

So long as you are back in ir your own side of the road so ss not to cause the oncoming car to have to swerve to avoid you is sufficient. Distance doesn't really come into it.

Johnny Electricity wrote: »

Once the wing mirrors don't touch you're cool

I know Irish drivers prefer to keep more space, and generally tend to risk less on the road, I'm respecting it here, and I don't overtake when it would be too close.

But I got flashed today by oncoming driver after I overtook someone, and I was completely surprised, as I though the distance I kept was way more then enough. I kept about 4 seconds.

That's why I wanted to find out what other people think what distance would be safe.

thecomedian

Padkir wrote: »

Because more often than not they haven't left enough room in front to safely do this. (Another one of my pet hates).

I understand what you're saying. I have no problem with someone not overtaking if they hang back and give other people the opportunity to hop one car at a time.

Unfortunately, this rarely happens...

As you said not leaving enough room is a different problem. I'd an old van that I couldn't be bothered going over 90-100 kph and in my wife's 1.4 focus again i just sit back.

thecomedian

CiniO wrote: »

But I got flashed today by oncoming driver after I overtook someone, and I was completely surprised, as I though the distance I kept was way more then enough. I kept about 4 seconds.

That's why I wanted to find out what other people think what distance would be safe.

They could have braked as well, probably a bit tight imo

CiniO

thecomedian wrote: »

They could have braked as well, probably a bit tight imo

I was doing about 80 - 90km/h.
Other car was probably doing about 70-80.
Assume both do 80km/h.

So at the moment I finished overtaking manouver, other car was about 180metres away from me. IMHO that's plenty.

ron jambo

CiniO wrote: »

I was doing about 80 - 90km/h.
Other car was probably doing about 70-80.
Assume both do 80km/h.

So at the moment I finished overtaking manouver, other car was about 180metres away from me. IMHO that's plenty.

On comming car didn't think so

alfa beta

after pulling fully back into your lane (and having not cut up the car you've just overtaken) I would have thought anything over 4 seconds would be fine.

Assuming the oncoming car is doing 100km/h and your doing 110km/h (hey -who doesn't speed up to overtake!) then that 4 second gap amounts to a distance of 233 meters.

personally I find it a tiny bit annoying when oncoming drivers flash (their dissatisfaction) at you as much as a second or two after you've pulled right back in (but in saying that I do drive a car that's pretty fast and perhaps they simply don't anticipate the speed at which I can pop past something - ie: i know what i'm doing is perfectly safe - they may not)

CiniO

ron jambo wrote: »

On comming car didn't think so

Indeed.

mb1725

CiniO wrote: »

But I got flashed today by oncoming driver after I overtook someone, and I was completely surprised, .

Go on, show us the video!

bladespin

CiniO wrote: »

Judging other vehicles speed is rather on of the most basic skills needed for driving.

You think it's easy to judge an oncoming car's speed from a distance you might consider safe to overtake??? If it's far enough away, how can you tell?

CiniO

mb1725 wrote: »

Go on, show us the video!

No, I don't fancy putting videos here anymore, as there is too many boardies that will take me apart, not because of the video, but just because I'm CiniO

CiniO

bladespin wrote: »

You think it's easy to judge an oncoming car's speed from a distance you might consider safe to overtake??? If it's far enough away, how can you tell?

I don't know. You just look at it and you know.
It's easier though if the car has dipped lights on. (or DRLs).

bladespin

CiniO wrote: »

I don't know. You just look at it and you know.
It's easier though if the car has dipped lights on. (or DRLs).

I know what you mean but I don't think I could advise on it. TBH I think we build judgement based on the general speed of the oncoming traffic, but it's very easy to get caught by someone driving above the norm, if the lights are moving rapidly (like shaking) it's a good sign someone's got the foot down (or a loose lamp )

CiniO

bladespin wrote: »

I know what you mean but I don't think I could advise on it. TBH I think we build judgement based on the general speed of the oncoming traffic, but it's very easy to get caught by someone driving above the norm, if the lights are moving rapidly (like shaking) it's a good sign someone's got the foot down (or a loose lamp )

Sorry but I'm not exactly sure what you wouldn't advise?

You wouldn't advice to overtake if there is oncoming car there?
There always is one - all is a matter of distance.

I can't imagine driving if I couldn't judge speed and distance of other vehicles properly.

Supergurrier

Judging speed with the human eye accurately is impossible especially head on.

If its less than half a km away i leave it. They i burn a whole line of traffic like a boss when it's clear.

CiniO

Supergurrier wrote: »

Judging speed with the human eye accurately is impossible especially head on.

If its less than half a km away i leave it. They i burn a whole line of traffic like a boss when it's clear.

Heh.
But if you plan to overtake, and make a decision to do so judging on that oncoming car is about half km away, then you have not much time to do it, assuming both you and oncoming car are doing about 100km/h.
Even if you start a manouver directly after decision is made, you still probably need about 6 seconds to overtake another car.
And car half a km away, doing 100km/h will meet you in 9 seconds if you do 100km/h as well.

So when you finish the manouver, you will have only 3 seconds till you meet the car, which seems lot less than many posters here adviced.

_Kaiser_

If I am behind a car/cars and come to a stretch that I think presents a good opportunity to overtake (have to actually think about this now I'm writing it down here - clear road ahead, good visibility/surface, no entrances, no one behind me trying to overtake me), I just check the mirrors, indicate, move out and plant the boot - I have no qualms about "speeding" to minimise the amount of time I spend on the opposite side of the road.

The 225 BHP and tiptronic box does the rest. When I've passed the obstacle I again check the mirror, indicate left and move back in. I also don't immediately stand on the brakes to get back under the arbitrary limit - rather I'll gradually slow back down over the next several hundred meters by simply lifting off.

To me it's all instinctive though and I know what my car can do which helps the decision process - I also won't overtake if I'm not sure about any of the factors above, but it all happens in less time than it's taken me to write the first half of this post.

ron jambo

CiniO wrote: »

Heh.
But if you plan to overtake, and make a decision to do so judging on that oncoming car is about half km away, then you have not much time to do it, assuming both you and oncoming car are doing about 100km/h.
Even if you start a manouver directly after decision is made, you still probably need about 6 seconds to overtake another car.
And car half a km away, doing 100km/h will meet you in 9 seconds if you do 100km/h as well.

So when you finish the manouver, you will have only 3 seconds till you meet the car, which seems lot less than many posters here adviced.

When you see the white of their eyes, you're doing it right

bigroad

Till you see the whites of there eyes.It makes it more exciting.

YbFocus

I sit for a few seconds to see how the oncoming car is closing, if I deem it's safe I go.
I always try to be in 5 seconds before It passes and at least 200-300 metres.
I don't want to cause someone to brake or even be like "where's this lad going" kind of thing.
I won't pass if I'm putting someone out.


Kaiser, that description is exactly me also

Ded_Zebra

I try to do it in a way where the oncoming car doesn't feel the need to break or pull into the hard shoulder/closer to the ditch on their side. IMO this normally means a time of about 3 seconds (and I mean a full three seconds) by the time I have pulled in fully. I have overtaken in tighter gaps though either due to poor judgement on my part or due to lack of good opportunities.

djimi

I cant believe that this question even needs to be asked...

If you cannot complete the manoeuvre fully in a manner that means the oncoming car at no time feels the need to break/take evasive action then you are not leaving sufficient distance. Its a judgement call; instinct and common sense should tell you whether or not an overtake is on or not.

CiniO

djimi wrote: »

I cant believe that this question even needs to be asked...

If you cannot complete the manoeuvre fully in a manner that means the oncoming car at no time feels the need to break/take evasive action then you are not leaving sufficient distance. Its a judgement call; instinct and common sense should tell you whether or not an overtake is on or not.

OK so.
Have a look on this video. Relevant action is from about 0:35.
I've overtaken, and oncoming car which I met 4 seconds later flashed me to say that in his opinion what I did was dangerous. I was really surprised, as I didn't find it dangerous at all. My instinct told me it was ok to overtake.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vS1C_3ZhODE

alfa beta

maybe he knew ya - just saying 'hi' like

nothing even slightly dangerous about that - but even his 'flash' looked very half-hearted!!