Reseeding silage ground in Spring

dh1985

Have some silage ground I am contemplating reseeding. It's good land but not satisfied with the yield from it over the past few years. Is spring a good time to reseed. Use the aftergrass for weanling this time of year so don't want to reseed in autumn if possible. What is the best method for reseeding. Plough and reseed v stitching? Would be grateful for any advice.

whelan1

dh1985 wrote: »

Have some silage ground I am contemplating reseeding. It's good land but not satisfied with the yield from it over the past few years. Is spring a good time to reseed. Use the aftergrass for weanling this time of year so don't want to reseed in autumn if possible. What is the best method for reseeding. Plough and reseed v stitching? Would be grateful for any advice.

have you soil tested the field?

dh1985

whelan1 wrote: »

have you soil tested the field?

No but intend to in the coming weeks

jersey101

dh1985 wrote: »

Have some silage ground I am contemplating reseeding. It's good land but not satisfied with the yield from it over the past few years. Is spring a good time to reseed. Use the aftergrass for weanling this time of year so don't want to reseed in autumn if possible. What is the best method for reseeding. Plough and reseed v stitching? Would be grateful for any advice.

have 12ac to do in the spring.its part of a 30ac field. I cut the silage off in 20th july and disced it and sowed forage rape. Grand covering of grass and rape now. Depending on what condition it is in the spring i will either plough or disc again but will prob disc it. Going to sow a hybrid grass in it then for silage

dh1985

jersey101 wrote: »

have 12ac to do in the spring.its part of a 30ac field. I cut the silage off in 20th july and disced it and sowed forage rape. Grand covering of grass and rape now. Depending on what condition it is in the spring i will either plough or disc again but will prob disc it. Going to sow a hybrid grass in it then for silage

What's the benefits of just discing it versus ploughing. Is it just a cost thing. When do you anticipate it to be ready for mowing if you reseed in early spring. Would you have a good crop of grass come early June. Sorry about all the questions.

jersey101

dh1985 wrote: »

What's the benefits of just discing it versus ploughing. Is it just a cost thing. When do you anticipate it to be ready for mowing if you reseed in early spring. Would you have a good crop of grass come early June. Sorry about all the questions.

i just disced it after the silage because i wanted a quick job. Its alot cheaper aswell. Ive low OM here and low P and K so dont want to be turning that down. I sowed italian this spring in march and i cut it in july. It woulsd have been cut earlier only of the cold spring. Im hoping to sow this in march and get a first cut in mid june

dh1985

jersey101 wrote: »

i just disced it after the silage because i wanted a quick job. Its alot cheaper aswell. Ive low OM here and low P and K so dont want to be turning that down. I sowed italian this spring in march and i cut it in july. It woulsd have been cut earlier only of the cold spring. Im hoping to sow this in march and get a first cut in mid june

Yeah that's what I wad be hoping to do also. Have no experience of reseeding though. Would there be a middling to good crop within a ten to twelve week period post reseeding or would it take longer for it to thicken up

jersey101

dh1985 wrote: »

Yeah that's what I wad be hoping to do also. Have no experience of reseeding though. Would there be a middling to good crop within a ten to twelve week period post reseeding or would it take longer for it to thicken up

if your using perenial ryegrass you will have to let it grow and then graze it and then take silage. if you want to use itailian you dont need to graze that just let it grow and cut it. You will get 3 cuts a year off it along with grazing in the backend but that will only last 3 year where perenial will last 7-8 yrs

Zts crystal

Arable silage. Grass and barley

freedominacup

Zts crystal wrote: »

Arable silage. Grass and barley

Worked well for us this year. 4 stone of barley broadcast with 10-10-20 just before one-pass and grass-seed out with one pass. Cut 10 weeks later results are in silage analysis thread. We also direct drilled another area later in year. If the ground you are re-seeding is well laid out then DD is the way to go much cheaper and faster. If you have a badly poached/rutted field the DD isn't going to be much good.

Zts crystal

I agree freedom

Dunedin

dh1985 wrote: »

Yeah that's what I wad be hoping to do also. Have no experience of reseeding though. Would there be a middling to good crop within a ten to twelve week period post reseeding or would it take longer for it to thicken up

don't let a new re-seed field straigth to silage. if you do then not enough light will get through to the crop and you will have tilering problems i.e. patchy grass.

Best method is to graze it first adn then you can let back to silage.

dh1985

Dunedin wrote: »

don't let a new re-seed field straigth to silage. if you do then not enough light will get through to the crop and you will have tilering problems i.e. patchy grass.

Best method is to graze it first adn then you can let back to silage.

It's probably preferable to reseed post silage so and let cattle eat it off in the back end of the year or early springtime. Will probably wait until next July so after June aftergrass is eaten.

dh1985

jersey101 wrote: »

if your using perenial ryegrass you will have to let it grow and then graze it and then take silage. if you want to use itailian you dont need to graze that just let it grow and cut it. You will get 3 cuts a year off it along with grazing in the backend but that will only last 3 year where perenial will last 7-8 yrs

Does the Italian rye give a better yield than perennial. Don't want to graze silage ground after reseeding at that time of year as silage willrun later than I would like. Thinking of leaving this spring and do it after silage is completed.

jersey101

dh1985 wrote: »

Does the Italian rye give a better yield than perennial. Don't want to graze silage ground after reseeding at that time of year as silage willrun later than I would like. Thinking of leaving this spring and do it after silage is completed.

ye you will get 3 very bulky crops and high quality silage to. Just sow it and let it grow

dh1985

jersey101 wrote: »

ye you will get 3 very bulky crops and high quality silage to. Just sow it and let it grow

Must investigate some more into the Italian grass. Wouldn't be over gone on having to reseed every three years as you said but if it allows for greater cattle numbers then it may be well worth it. After three years does yields fall back dramatically? Just in case I lose count of the years rolling by!

jersey101

dh1985 wrote: »

Must investigate some more into the Italian grass. Wouldn't be over gone on having to reseed every three years as you said but if it allows for greater cattle numbers then it may be well worth it. After three years does yields fall back dramatically? Just in case I lose count of the years rolling by!

hybrid might suit you better lasts for 7yrs+ im sowing it next year. Get 3 cuts off that too. The Italian will just dye ull know when its gone

dh1985

jersey101 wrote: »

hybrid might suit you better lasts for 7yrs+ im sowing it next year. Get 3 cuts off that too. The Italian will just dye ull know when its gone

Is there any benefits of choosing the perennial over the hybrid so. Would hybrid be the best option available in your opinion.

just do it

dh1985 wrote: »

No but intend to in the coming weeks

Maybe wait until the New Year. Ideally you'd soil test 6 months since the last fertiliser whether that be chemical or slurry.

jersey101

dh1985 wrote: »

Is there any benefits of choosing the perennial over the hybrid so. Would hybrid be the best option available in your opinion.

the only benefit would be the 3 cuts of silage. If you have good p and k and not tight for ground go for the perenial. Im sowing because ive a high stocking rate and need to get as much silage as i can

just do it

dh1985 wrote: »

It's probably preferable to reseed post silage so and let cattle eat it off in the back end of the year or early springtime. Will probably wait until next July so after June aftergrass is eaten.

Take a second cut early to mid-August and you could have it reseeded a day later. Spray 5 days before harvesting the silage. That way you've the best of new grass for your weanlings in mid-October. First grazing with light stock before closing for the winter is ideal. Then the following Spring get another grazing in before closing for silage.

Italian and hybrid are worth looking into alright for silage ground. Plan in doing so myself!

dh1985

jersey101 wrote: »

the only benefit would be the 3 cuts of silage. If you have good p and k and not tight for ground go for the perenial. Im sowing because ive a high stocking rate and need to get as much silage as i can

would be reasonably well stocked for the amount of land I have. But if there was scope to increase numbers due to reseeding I would definitely consider the hybrid.

freedominacup

just do it wrote: »

Take a second cut early to mid-August and you could have it reseeded a day later. Spray 5 days before harvesting the silage. That way you've the best of new grass for your weanlings in mid-October. First grazing with light stock before closing for the winter is ideal. Then the following Spring get another grazing in before closing for silage.

Italian and hybrid are worth looking into alright for silage ground. Plan in doing so myself!

I think Italian ryegrasses are a bit like flares or paisley shirts, wait long enough and someone will be blathering on about how revolutionary they are and how they're the next big thing. I've seen a few paisley shirts making an appearence lately so Italian must be due an airing out by now as well.

jersey101

dh1985 wrote: »

would be reasonably well stocked for the amount of land I have. But if there was scope to increase numbers due to reseeding I would definitely consider the hybrid.

id be hoping to get no less than 15- 16 bales/acre for first and second cut 10 -12 for third

dh1985

just do it wrote: »

Take a second cut early to mid-August and you could have it reseeded a day later. Spray 5 days before harvesting the silage. That way you've the best of new grass for your weanlings in mid-October. First grazing with light stock before closing for the winter is ideal. Then the following Spring get another grazing in before closing for silage.

Italian and hybrid are worth looking into alright for silage ground. Plan in doing so myself!

Yeah I have been always told by friends that are more knowledgeable about reseeding than that the best time to reseed was august or September. I think I should have acted sooner this year as had second cut taken august bank holiday weekend. Could be looking at a new field of grass now. Will probably end up waiting until next august now. Were conditions good this year for reseeding considering the uncharacteristically hot spells without rain

dh1985

jersey101 wrote: »

id be hoping to get no less than 15- 16 bales/acre for first and second cut 10 -12 for third

Lord that would be a serious yield. Cut the first weekend of June this year. Got 6-7 bales to the acre with land after getting 3 bags of cut Sward in april and a dose of cattle / pig slurry in February / March. had good expectations after walking through it but It failed to deliver. Know growing conditions were not hectic but still disappointing.

jersey101

dh1985 wrote: »

Lord that would be a serious yield. Cut the first weekend of June this year. Got 6-7 bales to the acre with land after getting 3 bags of cut Sward in april and a dose of cattle / pig slurry in February / March. had good expectations after walking through it but It failed to deliver. Know growing conditions were not hectic but still disappointing.[/quo

Same every where im afraid. I sowed the itailian in april and didnt cut till july. Was set up for a second cut but had to graze it since

agriman27

dh1985 wrote: »

Have some silage ground I am contemplating reseeding. It's good land but not satisfied with the yield from it over the past few years. Is spring a good time to reseed. Use the aftergrass for weanling this time of year so don't want to reseed in autumn if possible. What is the best method for reseeding. Plough and reseed v stitching? Would be grateful for any advice.

I'm in the same situation wasn't really prepared to reseed this year. I hope to buy my own machinery over the next few months to reseed when I want to and not have to rely on contractors who plough too deep. I hope by reseeding I will be able to carry more stock as well and make high quality silage.

Farmer Pudsey

OP it depends on how much silage you want. hybrids and Italians are very good if you want 3 cuts/year. Yes you have to reseed ever 3-4 years but on the other hand it is very easy to DD into them, DD cost 40-60/acre and with seed (hybrids and Italians are usually cheaper than ordinary grass seed but you need slightly more per acre as they are bigger seeds) spray slug pellets and fertilizer. So reseeding would cost less than 200/acre if you can spray and roll yourself. With adequate fertilizer they will average 30/bales acre a year.

You can include redclover in the mix so as to reduce nitrogen costs. This year I cut them the 25th May and got slightly over 11 bales/acre and they were fairly well wilted, got 7bales/acre on 2nd cut ( this was haylage) and got 8 on the third cut which was again very well wilted. Will get a graze before Christmas. They were in two 4 acre fields/paddocks one was a hybrid in its 4th year that had gone very sparse (did not count it 3rd cut in the figures as I reseeded it)

If sowing a hybrid in spring consider grazing after 4ish week to thicken and then cut 8-10 weeks later. You can do this in the first year as it will not go to seed in its first year. The other option is to increase you seed rate under sow to barley (3-4 stone/acre) and get a good cut of silage after 12-14 weeks and a second cut in September.

With hybrids/Italian I go for a good first cut at around it heading date (usually around 20thMay) 2nd cut is usually poorish as it head fast however 3rd cut can be fairly ok. This year I think the field that I reseeded set back the total as it was in its forth year.

jersey101

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

OP it depends on how much silage you want. hybrids and Italians are very good if you want 3 cuts/year. Yes you have to reseed ever 3-4 years but on the other hand it is very easy to DD into them, DD cost 40-60/acre and with seed (hybrids and Italians are usually cheaper than ordinary grass seed but you need slightly more per acre as they are bigger seeds) spray slug pellets and fertilizer. So reseeding would cost less than 200/acre if you can spray and roll yourself. With adequate fertilizer they will average 30/bales acre a year.

You can include redclover in the mix so as to reduce nitrogen costs. This year I cut them the 25th May and got slightly over 11 bales/acre and they were fairly well wilted, got 7bales/acre on 2nd cut ( this was haylage) and got 8 on the third cut which was again very well wilted. Will get a graze before Christmas. They were in two 4 acre fields/paddocks one was a hybrid in its 4th year that had gone very sparse (did not count it 3rd cut in the figures as I reseeded it)

If sowing a hybrid in spring consider grazing after 4ish week to thicken and then cut 8-10 weeks later. You can do this in the first year as it will not go to seed in its first year. The other option is to increase you seed rate under sow to barley (3-4 stone/acre) and get a good cut of silage after 12-14 weeks and a second cut in September.

With hybrids/Italian I go for a good first cut at around it heading date (usually around 20thMay) 2nd cut is usually poorish as it head fast however 3rd cut can be fairly ok. This year I think the field that I reseeded set back the total as it was in its forth year.

i thought tge hybrid lasted for about 6 yrs??

Robson99

jersey101 wrote: »

hybrid might suit you better lasts for 7yrs+ im sowing it next year. Get 3 cuts off that too. The Italian will just dye ull know when its gone

What Hybrid grass would you recommend Jersey. 7 yrs would be excellent

Farmer Pudsey

jersey101 wrote: »

i thought tge hybrid lasted for about 6 yrs??

I find that after 4 yeras they become worn out. Now you could direct drill into them and graze tightly however have never got more than 4 seasons out of any that I planted.

jersey101

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

I find that after 4 yeras they become worn out. Now you could direct drill into them and graze tightly however have never got more than 4 seasons out of any that I planted.

good to know. Salesman told me ut lasts 6yrs

jersey101

Robson99 wrote: »

What Hybrid grass would you recommend Jersey. 7 yrs would be excellent

havent a clue atm. Have never sown any only what ive heard off other lads will be looking into in the spring

Farmer Pudsey

Robson99 wrote: »

What Hybrid grass would you recommend Jersey. 7 yrs would be excellent

jersey101 wrote: »

good to know. Salesman told me ut lasts 6yrs

I have planted abereve I think is the name and red clover with it 12hybrid and 4red clover/acre mind it was a salesman advised me on it so:eek:

just do it

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

I have planted abereve I think is the name and red clover with it 12hybrid and 4red clover/acre mind it was a salesman advised me on it so:eek:

How demanding are they on fertiliser? From what I see red clover would work well with a 3 cut system with one short graze in Autumn and starts to disappear after 3 years.

How does silage quality of a hybrid compare to PRG?

Farmer Pudsey

just do it wrote: »

How demanding are they on fertiliser? From what I see red clover would work well with a 3 cut system with one short graze in Autumn and starts to disappear after 3 years.

How does silage quality of a hybrid compare to PRG?

For first cut not a lot of difference, Hybrid goes to seed very fast for 2nd cut however 3rd cut will be fairly good again. Will be testing all three cuts soon to see. Red clover next year should improve digestibility and protein. Hoping Red clover will reduce nitrogen bill. Also one issue with hybrids RVP and Westerwolds is that the avaibility of nutrients decides how fast they go to seed. After cutting as you have to wait for grass to be removed anfd it may be 3+ days before you spread N as N from red clover will be available it may well delay the rush to head on second cut and encourage more leaf and less stem in third cut.

just do it

Could be demanding enough on P & K as well I'd have thought. Given with a red clover/ hybrid mix you're looking at 3 years realistically, a soil test at that stage would tell alot. (and of course, not forgetting lime!) I might try it and some permanent silage ground that's up for reseeding next year. I'll be interested to see your silage test results;)

Farmer Pudsey

just do it wrote: »

Could be demanding enough on P & K as well I'd have thought. Given with a red clover/ hybrid mix you're looking at 3 years realistically, a soil test at that stage would tell alot. (and of course, not forgetting lime!) I might try it and some permanent silage ground that's up for reseeding next year. I'll be interested to see your silage test results;)

Yes these are heavy on p&k however my ph is very good 6.5-7. Will be a 2ish weeks before I take samples

bob charles

hybrids/red clover 3 years MAX. Even on year three they can struggle, and struggle on year 1 aswell. Bet the sales figures come from year two.

And to add to that, does anyone know what sward year does the Dept of Ag come from or is it weighted for 5 years or what. Lots of reseed in the first year wont produce as much as in year 2.

grazeaway

what kinda of silage do you do, pit or bales?

there really are 3 options, direct dril, min till (discing/power harrow) and plough and sow.

all have thier positives and negative and really depend on your sitution and needs. have done all 3 over the last few years.

DD does a great fast job but your fields needs to be good and level of if its a case of reseeding a fild that isint rutted, poach or un even then i would go with that (provided there is a good contractor nearby). Very mush a summer job or before teh land gets too soft.

min till is good way to get the top few inchs well tilled to provide a handy seed bed with ot burying the nuertients it already has. can be done with a disc harrow, power harrow or rotovator. good if you have your own gear as the seed can be put out with a spreader or barrow and rolled. if you have access to the harrows, spreader and rolleer you can do it your self over a few days.

Full tilling is the best way to reseed if you are putting rutted, poached or tillage land back into grass or if you just want to turn the sod. if you are goign this route its best to do it in the spring. also can be one easy easy enough if you have your own gear, plough, harrow, seeder/spreader, roller. if your are gogin this route then arable sialge (barley and grass seed mix) is great. time it to be ready durign you silage cut and you can mix it it the pit. we actually took 2 cuts of ours this year as the barly regrew after teh 1st cut so there was a nice mix of barly inthere. will use it to feed cows when they into the beet later this month. very nice cover of grass on it and we are grazign it a second time this week.

most imporatnt thing for resseding it timign your burn off of old grass and doing a post emergance spray it kill off docks and other weeds.

freedominacup

grazeaway wrote: »

what kinda of silage do you do, pit or bales?

there really are 3 options, direct dril, min till (discing/power harrow) and plough and sow.

all have thier positives and negative and really depend on your sitution and needs. have done all 3 over the last few years.

DD does a great fast job but your fields needs to be good and level of if its a case of reseeding a fild that isint rutted, poach or un even then i would go with that (provided there is a good contractor nearby). Very mush a summer job or before teh land gets too soft.

min till is good way to get the top few inchs well tilled to provide a handy seed bed with ot burying the nuertients it already has. can be done with a disc harrow, power harrow or rotovator. good if you have your own gear as the seed can be put out with a spreader or barrow and rolled. if you have access to the harrows, spreader and rolleer you can do it your self over a few days.

Full tilling is the best way to reseed if you are putting rutted, poached or tillage land back into grass or if you just want to turn the sod. if you are goign this route its best to do it in the spring. also can be one easy easy enough if you have your own gear, plough, harrow, seeder/spreader, roller. if your are gogin this route then arable sialge (barley and grass seed mix) is great. time it to be ready durign you silage cut and you can mix it it the pit. we actually took 2 cuts of ours this year as the barly regrew after teh 1st cut so there was a nice mix of barly inthere. will use it to feed cows when they into the beet later this month. very nice cover of grass on it and we are grazign it a second time this week.

most imporatnt thing for resseding it timign your burn off of old grass and doing a post emergance spray it kill off docks and other weeds.

That's it in a nutshell.

jersey101

bob charles wrote: »

hybrids/red clover 3 years MAX. Even on year three they can struggle, and struggle on year 1 aswell. Bet the sales figures come from year two.

And to add to that, does anyone know what sward year does the Dept of Ag come from or is it weighted for 5 years or what. Lots of reseed in the first year wont produce as much as in year 2.

whats the benefit of hybrid over Italian if it lasts no longer?

Farmer Pudsey

jersey101 wrote: »

whats the benefit of hybrid over Italian if it lasts no longer?

As far as I know it is less prone to drought and also tends not to get to seed as fast( not much in it) and even if it goes to seed will not shed the seed as fast (again I think). Italian can be ver hard to get out of a sward if you change the field back to PG.

Now I kinda drag 4 years out of the Hybrids is first time I have the full Italain stallian planted. If you are going to keep a field for continous silage then it will not matter if seed remains in the ground and germinates later

jersey101

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

As far as I know it is less prone to drought and also tends not to get to seed as fast( not much in it) and even if it goes to seed will not shed the seed as fast (again I think). Italian can be ver hard to get out of a sward if you change the field back to PG.

Now I kinda drag 4 years out of the Hybrids is first time I have the full Italain stallian planted. If you are going to keep a field for continous silage then it will not matter if seed remains in the ground and germinates later

i wonder would you get 4 good cuts off Italian if you cut it before it started to ge too stemmy. Have mainly leaf that is well wilted?

just do it

grazeaway wrote: »

there really are 3 options, direct dril, min till (discing/power harrow) and plough and sow.

Don't forget the cheapest option of all, no till (chain harrow) and broadcast with your fertiliser spreader

GrandSoftDay

Didn't want to start a new thread so said I'd uproot this one . Is it a bit early to be thinking about reseeding? Have never done any here but have a 20 acre field of fairly good land performing poorly. Never reseeded in my lifetime. Was thinking about doing the poorest 4 acres and I know a lot of people say an autumn reseed is a better job but this time of year would suit better. How long give or take a week would you be talking about from burning off to first grazing?

Greengrass1

GrandSoftDay wrote: »

Didn't want to start a new thread so said I'd uproot this one . Is it a bit early to be thinking about reseeding? Have never done any here but have a 20 acre field of fairly good land performing poorly. Never reseeded in my lifetime. Was thinking about doing the poorest 4 acres and I know a lot of people say an autumn reseed is a better job but this time of year would suit better. How long give or take a week would you be talking about from burning off to first grazing?

Burnt off ground last Saturday. Turning yellow yesterday.
Be another week before it gets mucked and disced I'd say. Hope to cut silage off it before end of may

Miname

i have spread muck and ploughed ground for reseeding. i will hopefully get seed in within the next forthnight. i like leaving the ground open for a while rather than a straight in plough and reseed.

GrandSoftDay

Miname wrote: »

i have spread muck and ploughed ground for reseeding. i will hopefully get seed in within the next forthnight. i like leaving the ground open for a while rather than a straight in plough and reseed.

Ploughing wouldn't work around here anyway, I'd still be picking stones in 2015!

munkus

All depends on weather and how well it gets disked. You could be left with an awful haype of dead grass and root on the surface which is a nightmare to deal with. Had to rake it off on one field last year before could till properly. I find ploughing more reliable/predictable but you're burying the good soil down.

Get a soil test done straight away so you know what index it is for P and K. P needed for root development.