Would I be able to make a living from 150 ac

Fat Cant

I have been left 150ac of tilliage land with all machinery and SFP on it to . Would I be able to make a living from it?

freedominacup

Fat Cant wrote: »

I have been left 150ac of tilliage land with all machinery and SFP on it to . Would I be able to make a living from it?

I'm sorry for your troubles:D:D:D:D.

Best of luck that's a great start though. 150ac tillage probably not viable on it's own but if in one block should you be looking at the expansion 2015 thread?

epfff

Fat Cant wrote: »

I have been left 150ac of tilliage land with all machinery and SFP on it to . Would I be able to make a living from it?

You will have the sfp for yourself if your a good farmer

grazeaway

well it'll give you a great start.

Tillage land means good land so it can be used for pretty much anything. If you are still working then kep your job but you acn still do a lot of teh work on your own time espically with teh machierny.

do you have much tillage knowledge?

What i would do if i were you would be to do soem of teh work your self and contract r in soem of teh more specialst stuff untl you get teh hang of it.

Do you have an intrest in farming or have a backround in it? if so what kind? IF you want to move away from tillage to say beef or dairy then the farm will be mor ethen capable of doign those enterprises.

Farmer Pudsey

Fat Cant wrote: »

I have been left 150ac of tilliage land with all machinery and SFP on it to . Would I be able to make a living from it?

Provided you know how to fram it. Yoyr SFP if it was in tillage during the reference (provided it was left to you as well) should be inexcess of 15K. Turning it into adairy farm provided you have the skillset and it is in one block would yield a turnover of 225K on a dairy herd of 120 cows.

It all depends on your intrest in farming, your ability to work and to put in place a viable buisness.

My own opinion is that if you can not manage a decent income off it and put in place a viable long term buisness then there is no future for farming in Ireland

vanderbadger

i think someone posted recently, cant remember who that they had similar size farm in wexford..keep 40 acres tillage and the rest in grassland or something like that, kept a good size suckler herd and finished everything, had their own barley and straw..
might be another option

Pacoa

Or just rent it to a neighbouring dairy farmer for 250 an acre. Might be a lot easier in the long run.

Farmer Pudsey

Pacoa wrote: »

Or just rent it to a neighbouring dairy farmer for 250 an acre. Might be a lot easier in the long run.

Not sure if a 250/acre rent is atainable however in the longterm it is not sustainable. The other thing about renting is that over 20-30 years the infrastructure and the land deteriote for lack of investment. Also you cannot recieve the SFP.

Take a situtation where it is rented at 150/acre yielding 22500/year . If you had a SFP of 15K then this means that through farming you only require a profit of 7500 to exceed this.

I see farms that are long term rented and most end up in very poor condition.

Western Pomise

I would love to be get a farm of that quality and all machinery,would have no knowledge of tillage but from a livestock perspective you would want to make very poor management to not earn a living off it.

Timmaay

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Not sure if a 250/acre rent is atainable however in the longterm it is not sustainable. The other thing about renting is that over 20-30 years the infrastructure and the land deteriote for lack of investment. Also you cannot recieve the SFP.

Take a situtation where it is rented at 150/acre yielding 22500/year . If you had a SFP of 15K then this means that through farming you only require a profit of 7500 to exceed this.

I see farms that are long term rented and most end up in very poor condition.

Yep, but 22500 grand for doing nothing, against probably working your ass off with lots of stress to gain that 7500. If he goes dairy the return could obvious be well more, but that will take a big capital investment, of a minimum 200k.

6600

vanderbadger wrote: »

i think someone posted recently, cant remember who that they had similar size farm in wexford..keep 40 acres tillage and the rest in grassland or something like that, kept a good size suckler herd and finished everything, had their own barley and straw..
might be another option

That was myself. In that situation I'd stay with the tillage for the first few years as you have the machinery. Its a good way of getting each acre to turn a small profit and meanwhile address soil fertility issues. Also with only average management you can get reasonable results. With sucklers you need top level management and this will have to be learned over time. Even this year with spring barley only you would surely have €130/ac thats €19500 + SFP. Use some of what you make each year to buy in calf Lim or Sim heifers from a dairy herd and invest in facilities. Anything you build make it easily convertible to house dairy stock because you never know you might go that direction sometime. Try to keep merchant and overdraft credit to a minimum and pay your bills as they fall due. Only borrow for something that will increase your future earning power, eg concrete, stock. Don't go creacked buying machinery with your first grain cheque as you will never have anything if you do. The way to get good returns on good land is IMO;
- High stocking rate (aim for a cow and calf per grass acre),
- tight early spring calving - start in Jan, autumn calving cows have to be fed lots of meal throughout the winter to feed their calves, this erodes any benefit in having a bigger calf in the spring.
- top quality stock that will come into high carcase weights,
- put everything female with the bull, pull him out after 10 weeks and fatten anything scanned empty,
- be in a position to fatten everything on four legs with home grown grain (crimped, propcorn), that way you are only buying soya and pulp. You can fatten animals at the cheapest possible cost.
- be able to turn out some of your cows and calves even by day at the earliest opportunity, there doesn't have to be pucks of grass around
- good electric fencing, paddocks and plenty of water troughs will allow you to split up fields and allocate fresh grass every 1/2 days.
- Have one group of cows to each bull, after the bull comes out split the cows into those that have bull calves and heifer calves. Wean in August, this will save your Autumn grass for the calves.
- Don't creep feed calves, it only displaces grass. Your calves will be grazing grass the minute you let them out in the spring. Feed them meal only when your weaning.
- By calving early you can finish your bulls out of the shed the following May/June. The heifers/cull cows can use the same shed in August/September.
- Don't be afraid to spread plenty of fertiliser, a ton of that goes a lot further than a ton of meal.

By having a productive cattle herd running alongside your tillage you will insure yourself from price drops on either side, build up serious value in your stock and have better crops because of slurry and FYM, and hopefully make more money per acre. Tillage alone cannot be relied on to provide a living.

Pacoa

Not sure if a 250/acre rent is atainable

Not normally maybe but for a dairy farmer to increase his grazing platform by 150 acres i'd say he'd find it hard to say no. 200 would surely be atainable and a dairy farmer would be the best tenant to get. Once he's upped cow numbers and infrastructure he'll find it hard to walk away.

6600

I should warn you that with the above approach you will not see much surplus cash for the first 5 years but that will be the case if you are building up your farm whatever the enterprise.

mf240

Timmaay wrote: »

, but that will take a big capital investment, of a minimum 200k.

Why all you need to milk cows is a milking palour and cows.
Second hand shed and second hand machine.

If you started with fifty cows and 100 acres tillage, put ring feeders on stubbles for the first few years, bull everything to friesan and drop tillage as heifers come on stream over a few years. Roadways can be done in stages aswell and when finances allow you can put up a cubicle shed. and upgrade palour.

No doubt there will be plenty on to tell me this is madness but don't dismiss it too quickly, this way you can grow your skills along with herd size and if it turns out that dairying is not for you, then at least you won't be burried in debt.

yellow50HX

friend of mine was in a simailr boat a few years ago. inherited a tillage from from an uncle about 180ac plus machinery. was in his mid 20's at the time and workign fulltime as well as helping put at home. Sold some of the machary and the cash from teh inheritanace to clear any reamiang ddebts on the place. Put the rest of teh machery into a shed and leased out eth place for 5 years, between SFP and rent was getting about 25k a year, stuck that money into a savings account. hi splan beign to have enough money after 5 years to start up anythign he wanted on the land.

His GF and himself took a year out to go travelling and are in NZ workign on dairy farms to learn a bit more about the business. Plan is back home next year and once the tillaage lad is fisnished in september he will start up himself. part tillage until the dairy farm is big enough then proably all dairy

Farmer Pudsey

Timmaay wrote: »

Yep, but 22500 grand for doing nothing, against probably working your ass off with lots of stress to gain that 7500. If he goes dairy the return could obvious be well more, but that will take a big capital investment, of a minimum 200k.

Timmaay if you read my post I pointed out that if he had an SFP of 15K all he had to earn was 7.5K to be earning more than renting it. All the Dairy farmers are encouraging him to rent it seems. If he wanted an easy life or to hold onto his job I would advise him to either continue tillage however he would be very busy at certain times of year, or to put it in grass and do dry stock. A farm like that would carry 100+ cattle depending on level of work and commitment you would want to put into it. However OP asked the question about earning a full time living out of it not either of the questions above or about renting it.

With out doubt the most profitable would be dairying, followed by a good dry stock operation however both require certain skillsets and a bit of drive. The last thing I would do is rent it longterm. We do not know OP age he may well have done the Australian thing and may have commitments that will not allow him to move away for that matter they may not allow him to set up a dairy farm. He may or may not have the Tillage or drystock skillset.

For instance if I got that farm if it had sheds on it I be going into drystock and holding onto my job. I be suprised if I could not make a profit of 200+/acre hold onto my SFP and build up a serious business. This year you would but in a mixture of fresian weanlings and bullocks (120) for between 50-55K. However he may not have the skillset to manage such an operation.

He has loads of options he asked us about one in particular.

Fat Cant

I no f all bout dairying and i think i would hate that life stile . I though that sucker farmers are making nothing , as i have read in farmers journal 600 to 700 to keep a cow per year and sell there calfs for 700 to 800 thats if he doesn't die. There is another person has the other part of the farm so I would be sharing all machinery cost and maintenance. There is a good yard too. I would have thought if there is a good setup would it not make sense to stay at it?

jersey101

If you want to make a living off farming alone dairy would be really the only option. You could milk 70 - 80 cows there and take your silage and rear replacements of the one block. But you do have more commitment so if ye like your weekends off it wont be for you

Milked out

Fat Cant wrote: »

I no f all bout dairying and i think i would hate that life stile . I though that sucker farmers are making nothing , as i have read in farmers journal 600 to 700 to keep a cow per year and sell there calfs for 700 to 800 thats if he doesn't die. There is another person has the other part of the farm so I would be sharing all machinery cost and maintenance. There is a good yard too. I would have thought if there is a good setup would it not make sense to stay at it?

Your first sentence there rules out dairying so as you need to enjoy what your doing as well as have a good understanding to get going from a standing start, also to reduce the level of debt for starting out in dairying I would of suggesting selling the machinery but if there is another party involved it wouldn't be as straight forward. You could stick at it alright particularly if there's two of ye to split the workload at busy times of the year and maintain your current job/ enterprise.
In terms of making a living off it, definitely with dairying, if its enough acreage to do so from tillage I don't know, as for drystock you would want to be at the top of your game but then again there are plenty doing so with less

tabby aspreme

What about 750 lovely ewes, , you wouldn't be a Fat Cant for long looking after them

red bull

You are a lucky one. I raised 5 kids took them to 3rd level education no grants on 90 acres of mixed land. 50% dairy 50% dairy calves to stores. Wish I had you're chance, go go with it

milkprofit

To make money at tillage u need to be expert
Go to the most profitable tillage farmer in area and do some sort of share farming until u know what u want to do
if going suckler or dairy get some experience first
Avoid expensive mistakes
keep job unless u can take a job holidat

1chippy

at 150 acres id dive straight in. it could get very easy to become dependant on oth the job and farm for an income. dive straight in and its a case of you just have to make an income off it. you will put your full efforts into getting it right and not be half arsed telling yourself sure your only learning.

MFdaveIreland

Can't believe the title of this post. Some people need a pinch .

delaval

I've followed this for a while and can only conclude that if you are asking the question the answer is, no!

Viewtodiefor

Fat Cant wrote: »

I have been left 150ac of tilliage land with all machinery and SFP on it to . Would I be able to make a living from it?

By doing nothing you could make a "living" from it, might not have any disposable income though, (add it to your day job salary maybe) if you are afraid of work then forget it but if you are willing to work you could make a good living from it, it will not happen without some graft and sacrifice though.

bob charles

there are plenty of useless C's around here who can make a living on 3 and 4 hundred acres :mad:

darragh_haven

The OP has stated he has no interest in dairying. So that rules that out.
Tillage - could he make a decent living on that land with the required machinery at hand. Yes he could, if the machinery is already paid for and there is no debt following the inheritance.
Livestock - you should be able to make 150 euro per acre with out much hassle (and a good bit more if you are experianced) and lump your SFP on top of it
I'm doing an Anglo and plucking a SFP of 10,000 outta my hole

freedominacup

bob charles wrote: »

there are plenty of useless C's around here who can make a living on 3 and 4 hundred acres :mad:

You're starting to sound like one of those insensitive dairy farmers that were described in the F-indo editorial.;)

Conmaicne Mara

freedominacup wrote: »

You're starting to sound like one of those insensitive dairy farmers that were described in the F-indo editorial.;)

Same lads who start getting real sensitive when the milk price slips?

ellewood

darragh_haven wrote: »

The OP has stated he has no interest in dairying. So that rules that out.
Tillage - could he make a decent living on that land with the required machinery at hand. Yes he could, if the machinery is already paid for and there is no debt following the inheritance.
Livestock - you should be able to make 150 euro per acre with out much hassle (and a good bit more if you are experianced) and lump your SFP on top of it
I'm doing an Anglo and plucking a SFP of 10,000 outta my hole

Please do tell??:D

paddysdream

Fat Cant wrote: »

I have been left 150ac of tilliage land with all machinery and SFP on it to . Would I be able to make a living from it?

Whats a living ?
If you are single,no mortgage and no major debt then possibly.
Assume the SPF is about 300 per hectare (tillage only)then thats 18k approx or 350 per week.
All tillage farm will on average break even most years,make a few bob 1 year in 7 and eat into the sub another 2 or 3 years in every 10.

Like someone said earlier ,sheep would leave a few bob but would it entail a lot of fencing and are there any suitable housing facilities on the farm at present?

You ruled out dairying and as regards cattle ,well the initial investment ,esp. if buildings required would be quiet steep.

Suppose it depends really if you see yourself prepared to spend the first few years just plugging away without taking a lot from the farm.Depending on personal circumstances;single,no mortgage or kids and staying that way for a while with a flexible or easy to return to career or with commitments and a job where you would need to make a clean break from.

People will say "ah shur the auld lad up the road reared 13 on 25 acres of rushes so you must be one useless ba****d if unable to knock it out on 150 acres.But different times.Nowadays to live entirely from farming(by this I mean without any other income )I dont think 150 acres will cut it.

Look around you .Ask yourself how many families in your area depend 100% on farming income ?Even where I live there are very very few who dont either have a spouse working or work themselves off farm .If they have neither then in most cases they have either no kids or never had or were unable to build a house or do a lot with the one they have on the farm.In a lot of instances sales of sites,inheritances etc .in the good times covered up a lot of problems.

Sorry for all the doom and gloom but be a realist.If you are happy to slog away at it then there aint any better way of living but dont leave the job and then find out that you really miss the monthly boost to the bank account .

ellewood

darragh_haven wrote: »

The OP has stated he has no interest in dairying. So that rules that out.
Tillage - could he make a decent living on that land with the required machinery at hand. Yes he could, if the machinery is already paid for and there is no debt following the inheritance.
Livestock - you should be able to make 150 euro per acre with out much hassle (and a good bit more if you are experianced) and lump your SFP on top of it
I'm doing an Anglo and plucking a SFP of 10,000 outta my hole

Id be of the opinion that youre off to a very good start land machinery and sfp I dont see how you couldnt do it, but then there are lads with 2 or 3 times that land around me that will tell ya there making nothing!! and there are lads around that started small and now have big businesses's

But I think it comes down to youreself - if you work hard and work smart you can make a go of anything,
how many lads do we know started with nothing and worked hard and made good business decisions and are now well off, maybe they had a bit of luck along the way tho.

Also we have all heard of lads that got large farms, pubs ect that ran them into the ground or who couldnt make a living from them no matter what they did or tried in them.

No matter where you start from, inherit, buy,rent, partnership or whatever way you start if you have the business accumin, whether its a sweet shop or a farm you will make a go of it.

Btw getting a start like that is always helpfull:D:D

Farmer Pudsey

I would agree with Ellewood rather than Paddysdream. It all depends on yourself. If you think that you can live the life of a gentleman farmer on 150 acres then no. However it is a great place to start from.

However I be afraid for you as you ruled out dairying straight away. You made the point that another invidual has the other half of the farm. This would mean that a very large dairy operation would be feasible. If this is a 300 acre farm it would be possible to milk 200+ cows and maybe grow you own grain and feedstuff. Yes you will have to milk ever week end from Feb to November however there are two of you and with an operation this size you can afford to employ someone at the weekends to help the person working that week end. However you would have to get on well with the person concerned.

Red21

How many suckler cows + calf could a farmer keep on 150 acres of good land without spreading any fertilizer or making any silage, just letting the cattle out all year round with the aim of calving in march and selling calves at 6mths in sept.???

Timmaay

Not putting out fertiliser is like buying a new car and expecting it to run on petrol fumes.

Red21

Timmaay wrote: »

Not putting out fertiliser is like buying a new car and expecting it to run on petrol fumes.

No it's not, grass will grow without fert a car will not run on fumes

moy83

Red21 wrote: »

No it's not, grass will grow without fert a car will not run on fumes

It will be growing slower and slower every year though . You would want to replace at least some of the nutrients that grass growing takes out of the ground .

funny man

Red21 wrote: »

How many suckler cows + calf could a farmer keep on 150 acres of good land without spreading any fertilizer or making any silage, just letting the cattle out all year round with the aim of calving in march and selling calves at 6mths in sept.???

he was looking to make a living out of it!

just do it

2 points:

1) What do you consider to be "making a living"?

2) With such good land you could look at having the minimum of sheds by outwintering on brassicas. Given the shorter winter and already having the necessary machinery to hand you could look at getting the cost of keeping your suckler cow well below the €600 figure commonly bandied about.

Red21

moy83 wrote: »

It will be growing slower and slower every year though . You would want to replace at least some of the nutrients that grass growing takes out of the ground .

Slower and slower suggests that after 6 or 7 it's almost stopped and thats not what happens, grass thats being grazed will continue to grow at a certain rate nothing near the rate when nutrients are being added but it should have some consistencey about it.
If you pull out the ragworth and thistles and only have the cow dung from the cattle on it there should be a number acres to cow+calf ratio. Lawns continue to grow at a fairly even rate.

I'll give a guess at 4 acres per cow+calf.

Red21

funny man wrote: »

he was looking to make a living out of it!

I know i'm trying to sus out how many he'd keep, given that there isn't that many varibles surely there is some kinda consencus on the figures

funny man

even at €100/cow this works out at about 4000 at 1cow/4 acres or €26/acre.
as a tillage operation your too small IMO but if one of ye step aside with 300 acres it would be more sustainable.

moy83

Red21 wrote: »

Slower and slower suggests that after 6 or 7 it's almost stopped and thats not what happens, grass thats being grazed will continue to grow at a certain rate nothing near the rate when nutrients are being added but it should have some consistencey about it.
If you pull out the ragworth and thistles and only have the cow dung from the cattle on it there should be a number acres to cow+calf ratio. Lawns continue to grow at a fairly even rate.

I'll give a guess at 4 acres per cow+calf.

Lawns are treated alot better with tight clipping and and no tramping of cows and calves in bad weather with selective grazing .
No doubt some grass will continue to grow but I have my doubts that after 6/7 years without fertilizer that there will be much proof in it .
At four cows to the acre and say selling 35 6 month old weanlins every year there wont be alot out of it I suspect .
Fertilizer is only one of the costs towards keeping a cow for the year and not something I would be cutting out altogether to save money on

Bleating Lamb

Would have to agree with Timmaay,realistically trying to farm without applying some fertiliser is a waste of time,growth will be ok till around year 3 and then regardless of quality of land it will grow feck all grass at times of year you need it.

jersey101

Red21 wrote: »

How many suckler cows + calf could a farmer keep on 150 acres of good land without spreading any fertilizer or making any silage, just letting the cattle out all year round with the aim of calving in march and selling calves at 6mths in sept.???

you will end up feeding alot of meal. Fert is cheaoer than meal

just do it

There's some organic guys out there growing plenty grass. It can be done, especially with good land.

Red21

moy83 wrote: »

Lawns are treated alot better with tight clipping and and no tramping of cows and calves in bad weather with selective grazing .
No doubt some grass will continue to grow but I have my doubts that after 6/7 years without fertilizer that there will be much proof in it .
At four cows to the acre and say selling 35 6 month old weanlins every year there wont be alot out of it I suspect .
Fertilizer is only one of the costs towards keeping a cow for the year and not something I would be cutting out altogether to save money on

I'm saying 4 acres to the cow, are you saying that 2cows + 2calves wouldn't survive in an 8 acre field of good land year on year without any intervention.
Taking deaths in account surely you could bring 34 weanlings to 6mths, this is without ever bringing a tractor onto the land.
If you could your costs would be very low
Annual test
other vet fees(here you would select animals to suit the system)
tagging
dehorning
boundry fence repair
dosing
haulage of weanlings to mart
water charges

Milked out

Cutting inputs doesn't make things any more cost effective. It is the response and return in extra sales/ savings in other areas in relation to the cost of the input that determines if it is cost effective

Timmaay

Problem is there is no market anymore for organic. I know afew lads who went down the clover route, they all found it too inconsistent.

Anyways, dairying has been ruled out, but in my view its streets ahead of any other method of "making a living" off 150acres. People have this notion that it's an insane workload, once you have a tight spring calving pattern, and relatively low yielding cows (likes of a BF/JEx), with abit of milk relief there is no reason you can't get it down to very manageable hours most of the year around. Spring time will be flatout, but equally so lambing season is flatout, as is the harvest.

Timmaay

Problem is there is no market anymore for organic. I know afew lads who went down the clover route, they all found it too inconsistent.

Anyways, dairying has been ruled out, but in my view its streets ahead of any other method of "making a living" off 150acres. People have this notion that it's an insane workload, once you have a tight spring calving pattern, and relatively low yielding cows (likes of a BF/JEx), with abit of milk relief there is no reason you can't get it down to very manageable hours most of the year around. Spring time will be flatout, but equally so lambing season is flatout, as is the harvest.