HKC Alarm problem

clogher71 · 03-10-2013 5:26pm #1

Hi All,

I have a wired HKC alarm, but my garage has a wireless PIR, every now and again, the keypad starts beeping and says there is a fault with my garage zone, just tap in our code, it stops beeping and all is fine again for a few days maybe a week, I changed the battery in it about six months ago, the alarm is fitted about 2.5 years, I have not tried to call HKC direct for advice, but I am told they will only deal with installers.

Any ideas??

altor · 03-10-2013 5:45pm

clogher71 wrote: »

Hi All,

I have a wired HKC alarm, but my garage has a wireless PIR, every now and again, the keypad starts beeping and says there is a fault with my garage zone, just tap in our code, it stops beeping and all is fine again for a few days maybe a week, I changed the battery in it about six months ago, the alarm is fitted about 2.5 years, I have not tried to call HKC direct for advice, but I am told they will only deal with installers.

Any ideas??

Is it the hybrid system you have installed?
What does it say on the keypad when you disarm the system?

clogher71 · 03-10-2013 6:38pm

I am sorry, I don't understand what you mean by a hybrid system.

Its says something along the lines of zone garage PIR and the fault light is illuminated

altor · 03-10-2013 6:50pm

clogher71 wrote: »

I am sorry, I don't understand what you mean by a hybrid system.

Its says something along the lines of zone garage PIR and the fault light is illuminated

This is the hybrid system.

Is your control panel, not keypad made of steel or the polycarbonate housing?

clogher71 · 03-10-2013 7:38pm

Yes, its like the one in the link...hard plastic.

altor · 03-10-2013 7:45pm

clogher71 wrote: »

Yes, its like the one in the link...hard plastic.

Sounds like it may be a problem with communication with the panel. Is it a comms fault being shown on the keypad?

clogher71 · 03-10-2013 7:58pm

thanks altor, I don't remember what it said exactly on the keypad, but the text message it sends every time is 'Supervisory Z011 Pir garage',

altor · 03-10-2013 8:01pm

clogher71 wrote: »

thanks altor, I don't remember what it said exactly on the keypad, but the text message it sends every time is 'Supervisory Z011 Pir garage',

That is the problem so. You could try move it to a different location in the Garage to see if that helps.

clogher71 · 03-10-2013 8:08pm

Move it as near as I can to the control panel?, its not getting the signal properly?
Its not that far away, is there such thing as something interfering with the signal?

How do I 'turn off' the alarm so I can move the PIR without setting off the alarm?

Thanks a mill...

KoolKid · 03-10-2013 8:09pm

clogher71 wrote: »

Move it as near as I can to the control panel?, its not getting the signal properly?
Its not that far away, is there such thing as something interfering with the signal?

How do I 'turn off' the alarm so I can move the PIR without setting off the alarm?

Thanks a mill...

Do you have the engineer code to put it into engineer mode?

altor · 03-10-2013 8:14pm

clogher71 wrote: »

Move it as near as I can to the control panel?, its not getting the signal properly?
Its not that far away, is there such thing as something interfering with the signal?

How do I 'turn off' the alarm so I can move the PIR without setting off the alarm?

Thanks a mill...

It is more than likely something interfering with the sensor. Hopefully moving it to a different location will improve the signal.
You dont need the engineer code to move the sensor. Once the alarm is not set it will indicate a tamper on the keypad. Simply enter your user code to stop the beeps. Move the PIR to another location in the garage. If you had the engineer code you code check the signal strength before fitting in the new location but if not you are just seeing if you can resolve the issue by moving.

clogher71 · 03-10-2013 8:21pm

I think I have the engineers code guys.....I have one code that lets me into more functions.....Are we talking something metal interfering? It does not have a pattern when it happens, it could be the middle of night, just wondering is there anything I should be 'keeping it away from' when I move it.

altor · 03-10-2013 8:24pm

clogher71 wrote: »

I think I have the engineers code guys.....I have one code that lets me into more functions.....Are we talking something metal interfering? It does not have a pattern when it happens, it could be the middle of night, just wondering is there anything I should be 'keeping it away from' when I move it.

Mains cables and metal. When you enter the other code you have does it say authorized by?

kub · 03-10-2013 8:28pm

clogher71 wrote: »

I think I have the engineers code guys.....I have one code that lets me into more functions.....Are we talking something metal interfering? It does not have a pattern when it happens, it could be the middle of night, just wondering is there anything I should be 'keeping it away from' when I move it.

How long is this happening? Has anything been parked between the house and garage that has not been there before?
Is there anything new or different in your neighbourhood that is broadcasting radio signals?
Any new

clogher71 · 03-10-2013 8:38pm

altor wrote: »

Mains cables and metal. When you enter the other code you have does it say authorized by?

Cant see authorized by, but there is walk test, chime test, managers menu etc

@kop, it did cross my mind, but I thought it might be silly, and now I am after looking at my phone texts, we changed car, and it looks like the first time it happened was the day we got the car, it is normally parked between the house and the garage.

Are we on to something here?

kub · 03-10-2013 10:06pm

clogher71 wrote: »

Cant see authorized by, but there is walk test, chime test, managers menu etc

@kop, it did cross my mind, but I thought it might be silly, and now I am after looking at my phone texts, we changed car, and it looks like the first time it happened was the day we got the car, it is normally parked between the house and the garage.

Are we on to something here?

Interesting, basically the beam communicates with your control panel via radio waves, so if your new car has more electronics? metal etc. than your last one then it may be the source of the interference.

Can you park it in another position, so that it is not between the house and garage. If for no other reason just to determine if this is the cause, it is a bit of a coincidence alright,

clogher71 · 04-10-2013 3:02pm

Yes it does have more gizmos, sat nav was the one that caught my mind, with the GPS antenna, but you would imagine it would do it more often once a week. I don't have houses near me, so it could be the culprit, the car is away for the weekend and I am home so I will get a better chance to monitor.

altor · 07-10-2013 1:54pm

clogher71 wrote: »

Yes it does have more gizmos, sat nav was the one that caught my mind, with the GPS antenna, but you would imagine it would do it more often once a week. I don't have houses near me, so it could be the culprit, the car is away for the weekend and I am home so I will get a better chance to monitor.

Yes but once the car is off so would these devices in the car. I would monitor to see if the car being parked between the control panel and device is the problem but it could be anything, If the range of the sensor was to far to begin with then moving the sensor might sort the issue. The only way to know is to monitor the location and signal strength in engineer mode.

KoolKid · 07-10-2013 1:58pm

With HKC can you fit an external receiver nearer the device that's troublesome. ?

altor · 07-10-2013 2:10pm

KoolKid wrote: »

With HKC can you fit an external receiver nearer the device that's troublesome. ?

Yes you can but ideally you would want to know what the issue is first as simply moving the detector might sort the problem. The signal strength can be greatly increased by moving the detector to a different location without the need for an receiver.

KoolKid · 07-10-2013 2:14pm

Agreed, but sometimes a second receiver may be the better option if it can increase the signal by a much higher percentage . Particularly if it can be located at the keypad and if that's close to the zone involved.

altor · 07-10-2013 2:36pm

Ideally having the engineer code to test the signal strength of the sensor would be the better option. I would only consider installing the receiver if moving the sensor did not solve the issue.

KoolKid · 07-10-2013 3:15pm

The signal is clearly an issue. If moving the device solves the problem and gives an acceptable signal level then happy day. However in many cases like this it would only improve marginally or to borderline levels. If in any doubt improving the wireless network is always a good idea anyway.

altor · 08-10-2013 3:27am

KoolKid wrote: »

The signal is clearly an issue. If moving the device solves the problem and gives an acceptable signal level then happy day. However in many cases like this it would only improve marginally or to borderline levels. If in any doubt improving the wireless network is always a good idea anyway.

That would only depend on what is blocking the signal. Could be any number of issues here but without seeing the engineer signal strength as the sensor is moved we will never know. I still would rather move the sensor before paying extra to have the repeater installed. As a last resort the op will have no option to do this but then again he will also need the engineer code to do this too.

KoolKid · 08-10-2013 6:11am

I agree it needs to be seen, it is also going to need engineer access one way or another.
In most cases, in my experience, increasing the signal solves most issues.
Is HKC s a separate receiver or a repeater?
How expensive are these from HKC.?
It's relatively cheap to do with Siemens so I'd normally do it if there are any issues at all.

altor · 09-10-2013 11:52am

The receiver for the HKC system can be hardwired to the control panel.
If used as wire free it acts as a repeater. It needs to be supplied with 12V.
It is just over half price of the Siemens wireless gateway expander.

KoolKid · 09-10-2013 12:46pm

That's a bit limited.. Is there no option to install in the keypad??

altor · 09-10-2013 12:50pm

Having a wired and wire free version in one is limited :rolleyes:

KoolKid · 09-10-2013 1:00pm

altor wrote: »

Having a wired and wire free version in one is limited :rolleyes:

Compared to being able to install one into a keypad it is. A keypad is often near a front door so its the obvious choice to extend the range to a garage or for remotes or PAs.. A repeater needs a good signal at its location, this doesn't.

altor · 09-10-2013 1:12pm

KoolKid wrote: »

Compared to being able to install one into a keypad it is. A keypad is often near a front door so its the obvious choice to extend the range to a garage or for remotes or PAs.. A repeater needs a good signal at its location, this doesn't.

All wire free devices need a good signal. The location of the device and the receiver is what determine this. Same with the location of the receiver in the keypad. Not always going to solve the issue but the options there to add either a wired or wire free version to a different location.

KoolKid · 09-10-2013 1:20pm

But that's what I'm saying???
A receiver that can install into a keypad doesn't need a good signal as it's in direct connection to the panel via the existing keypad bus. It also doesnt need any cabling as it plugs directly onto the keypad PCB. More flexible, cheaper and less limited in my opinion.

altor · 09-10-2013 1:30pm

Have to disagree with you there.
That would make the receiver limited as its location depends on a keypad.

KoolKid · 09-10-2013 2:20pm

Not if you have the added benefit of also being able to install it anywhere on any keypad bus.
Next!!

altor · 10-10-2013 1:17pm

KoolKid wrote: »

Not if you have the added benefit of also being able to install it anywhere on any keypad bus.
Next!!

Are you saying the keypad receiver SPCW112 can be installed on the keypad bus without a keypad

Or are you talking about the SPCW130?
Which can be hardwired to the keypad bus!!!

KoolKid · 10-10-2013 1:39pm

The receivers fit into the keypad or into the gateway which can wire into anywhere on any keypad bus. Covers all possibilities really..

altor · 10-10-2013 1:48pm

KoolKid wrote: »

The receivers fit into the keypad or into the gateway which can wire into anywhere on any keypad bus. Covers all possibilities really..

That is a more expensive option but can be done!!!
Cable for the bus also needs to be accessible to do same.

KoolKid · 10-10-2013 2:02pm

And on the opposite side the receiver alone is a cheaper option than a gateway or repeater.

altor · 10-10-2013 3:42pm

KoolKid wrote: »

A receiver that can install into a keypad doesn't need a good signal as it's in direct connection to the panel via the existing keypad bus. It also doesnt need any cabling as it plugs directly onto the keypad PCB. More flexible, cheaper and less limited in my opinion.

I would not say this is more flexible, more limited as it can only either go in the control panel or the keypad.
To attach to the gateway you would be looking at installing a SPCW130 which works out more than the HKC equivalent.

KoolKid wrote: »

And on the opposite side the receiver alone is a cheaper option than a gateway or repeater.

Adding the receiver is the cheaper option as but it is limited to the location of the device your looking to add it too.

The SPCW130 is limited as such as it needs to be wired to the keypad bus.

Can the SPCW130 act as a repeater if given a local power supply?

KoolKid · 10-10-2013 4:13pm

So you don't see the benefit & flexibility of a receiver that can be wired anywhere on any keypad bus or plug tidily into the panel or any keypad but you do in a receiver that has to be either wired or within good reception range in the first place??
And the wireless one still needs power? You would be better off wiring it so!

I haven't come across a wireless installation that can't be covered by one of those solutions. The ability to put a very cheap receiver into any keypad really is the most flexible solution IMO.
Its cheap.
Its neat.
Its already getting power from the panel so it doesn't need another power supply.
Its not dependent on there already being reception in the location.
A keypad if often close to the front door so its ideal to extend garage reception & keyfobs. If you wire a keypad into a second area you can easily & cheaply add wireless there as well...
I could go on & on listing the advantages & flexibility, but, as you know, some people will always find an excuse to disagree.

altor · 10-10-2013 4:41pm

I do see the benefit of adding the receiver into the keypad.
Just dont agree with your opinion that it is:

KoolKid wrote: »

less limited in my opinion.

Most control panels are located beside a fuse board at a front door too so adding the receiver to the keypad located there is not going to benefit anyone.
Even the bus line to the keypad here would be of no use.

KoolKid wrote: »

If you wire a keypad into a second area you can easily & cheaply add wireless there as well...

So now you are running a cable plus having to add a second keypad.

KoolKid wrote: »

And on the opposite side the receiver alone is a cheaper option than a gateway or repeater.

More expense

KoolKid wrote: »

I could go on & on listing the advantages & flexibility, but, as you know, some people will always find an excuse to disagree.

You could but unless it proves the receiver is limitless you will be wasting your time

KoolKid · 10-10-2013 5:36pm

As I said, love to argue..
I love how you are so quick to jump on something that's more expensive but ignore what's cheaper, easier and tidier.
So your argument is I can't say something is limited in it function unless I am comparing with something that's limited???
That's almost as good as your zero resistance.
Once again your logic goes out the window just for the sake of an argument....
[sigh]

altor · 10-10-2013 6:03pm

I said I do see the benefit of adding the receiver into the keypad.
Wont suit all cases.

It is you who is claiming the receiver is limitless.
Have not seen anything to say it is???

I know you said this:

KoolKid wrote: »

Not if you have the added benefit of also being able to install it anywhere on any keypad bus.
Next!!

Its not like the receiver (cheap as it is) can be added directly to the keypad bus like you say. It needs a gateway, keypad or control panel to be plugged into..

Next!!!

KoolKid · 10-10-2013 6:59pm

altor wrote: »

I said I do see the benefit of adding the receiver into the keypad.
Wont suit all cases.

I know , someone will always come up with something it wont suit.
But it suits most in my experience. I haven't come across an issue I couldn't solve using an additional receiver.

altor wrote: »

It is you who is claiming the receiver is limitless.
Have not seen anything to say it is???

Did I say that ?

I know I said

KoolKid wrote: »

More flexible, cheaper and less limited in my opinion.

and

KoolKid wrote: »

I could go on & on listing the advantages & flexibility

and I know you said..

altor wrote: »

You could but unless it proves the receiver is limitless you will be wasting your time

As pretty much nothing is limitless this really shows your insistence to argue over anything over & over...

altor wrote: »

Its not like the receiver (cheap as it is) can be added directly to the keypad bus like you say. It needs a gateway, keypad or control panel to be plugged into..

Obviously something that plugs onto a PCB board in a panel or keypad etc is going to need a separate interface to hard wire onto a cable or into terminals in a panel.
Are you really down to that level of picking posts apart just for the hell of it?

altor · 10-10-2013 7:32pm

I haven't myself as I find fitting the control panel in a central location prevents issues arising. Yes it may suit some cases installing a receiver in the keypad but not all.

That is what makes the receiver limited in my opinion.

KoolKid · 10-10-2013 7:38pm

With the panel in a central location this is when a keypad receiver works best.
A keypad at the front and/or back door is ideal for extending the range or wireless fobs or sheds/ garages etc in either garden.
I also find then great if you wire a keypad to a shed or another area out of range you then have full signal there .

altor · 10-10-2013 8:06pm

Always find it best to use wired devices if possible to get a cable to a shed, but yes the more receivers installed on a system the better.

HKC Alarm problem

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