M50 traffic much heavier recently?

trihead

I know schools have been mentioned but there is alot of students and mature students who now drive to UCD / DCU / Tallaght IT / Blanch IT / Dun laoghaire Coleges via the M50. I think this is one factor in several which is causing the increase.

micks_address

I just started commuting from Skerries to Citywest.. yesterday left at 8.30 got in for 9.45 Today left at 7.45 got in at 850. So not much in it. I had hoped leaving at 7.45 would get me in for 8.30

Im not complaining as I new it would be a headache for me, but what are the alternative routes to take coming from the north county? I'm just think i'll have to have an alternative if only for days where there is a crash or something else that closes the motorway to a halt.

From my two days so far it does seem to obviously slow down coming up to and exits and where slip roads join the m50.

Im hoping its a little better. If i could keep the journey time to 50 minutes i'd be happy enough.

Cheers,
Mick

Elmer Blooker

I remember there was talk of a "new M50" - in other words a new ring road from Drogheda to Naas. That, obviously was way back during the boom and is not an option now. I don't think more roads are the answer but something like this I think is badly needed and would take a lot of traffic off the M50.
http://www.northsidepeople.ie/article.php?id=2520

The J Stands for Jay

I wonder could google maps and the like be to blame. If I'm ever going to a new place, I check the route on google maps first. If there is a motorway bias, could this be causing people to choose the m50 route when starting a new job etc?

Davy

sgarvan wrote: »

Bad driving and merging is causing a chunk of the issue.

Very much agree with that, one thing I would change are the short merges and only have the lane gain merges. N4 inbound to m50 SB causes a lot of issues, as does the N3 inbound to M50SB, and the N7 inbound to m50 NB. They all have both joining options, but most users use the shortest possible option, often changing lanes at the last minute to get into the shorter lane.

Happens regularly at the merge from N7 where change from left to right lane, then can't join the mainline quick enough so cross back over the ghost island into the aux lane. :mad:

Larbre34

Yes the merging is the issue, and the diverging also, people diving off late across traffic causing a brake on the diverge queue and on the lane they have just departed.

Having done a lot of continental driving its very obvious how woeful drivers we are as a nation, especially on motorways. Of course thats partly down to the driver education which doesnt cover motorways, but also the terrible attention some drivers pay to whats going on around them and also to not learning motorway etiquette once they do qualify. I have thought for a long time that if we cant or wont behave correctly voluntarily then they should install ranks of the superlight bollards in the hatch markings of all the merge and diverge lanes to force people to get in lane correctly and not depart it early or at the last second or across the hatchings. Not sure how you force people to get up to the correct speed before joining the M-way though.

My example of this morning was the driver of the red Hyundai Getz that joined the M50 SB at J12, in pouring rain with the sun shining through it so visibility was very poor, who was in shall we say a menopausal haze, drifted from the auxiliary lane to the outside lane in one sweeping movement with not a light on on the car, then proceeded to continue at 90kph gesticulating wildly to either a passenger I could not see or the car phone. I dont blame the following Galaxy driver one bit for undertaking both me and her in frustration

sgarvan

Davy wrote: »

Very much agree with that, one thing I would change are the short merges and only have the lane gain merges.

Exactly. Get rid of short merge and send all drivers down aux lane. Then you have the distance between junctions to merge at the speed of the traffic currently on the road.

Who can we send these suggestions to? Obviously someone takes them or studies are done every now and then because the change at the M1 junction NB is defo for the better.

carveone

Larbre34 wrote: »

Yes the merging is the issue, and the diverging also, people diving off late across traffic causing a brake on the diverge queue and on the lane they have just departed.

Agree with this too. I've driven extensively in Canada and the US and the type of driving you see here would get you pulled over and ticketed there. I was never taught to motorway drive here and had to learn very quickly over in Canada (take lessons!). High priority is shoulder checking and lane prediction - a) you can get an artic in your blind spot and, b) above 2 lanes, two drivers can attempt to merge to the same lane, something that is (was?) never even mentioned in a test here.

I have thought for a long time that if we cant or wont behave correctly voluntarily then they should install ranks of the superlight bollards in the hatch markings of all the merge and diverge lanes to force people to get in lane correctly and not depart it early or at the last second or across the hatchings.

Good grief, it's terror inducing. Blanch is bad southbound - this lane 3 to exit in one move with no indicators crap is actually causing major accidents. The northbound M50 approaching M1/N32 is worse. The wild lane changes slow traffic down considerably as drivers try and compensate for it. What's worse is the "breakdowns". Cars simply do not breakdown that often anymore but it seems every day last week there was a "breakdown" that caused 2 hour tailbacks. If these people are running out of petrol their car should be taken away and burnt in front of them :mad:

in one sweeping movement with not a light on on the car, then proceeded to continue at 90kph gesticulating wildly to either a passenger I could not see or the car phone.

And they don't even notice! I had this on the M3 outbound the other day - guy on phone doing 80kph in outer lane until I was forced to undertake; then he changed to inner lane without indicating just as I reached him. I nearly had heart failure. I take lane 2 from M50 exit 4 through 5 primarily because of the early, unindicated lane changers and the traffic in lane 1 which won't yield. And I'm still undertaking lane 3 all the time! Maybe there should be a special "competent to drive motorway" section in your driving licence.

serfboard

The latest NRA stats (a new setup from the NRA so not easily linkable), reports that between the N2 and N3 (J5->J6) over 130,000 vehicles per day are travelling. :eek:

sdanseo

Very hard to get rid of some of those short merges.

Looking at google maps, N4W->M50N and N7W->M50N would be a nightmare. For some reason in the opposite direction more space seems to have been left.

Davy

sdeire wrote: »

Very hard to get rid of some of those short merges.

Looking at google maps, N4W->M50N and N7W->M50N would be a nightmare. For some reason in the opposite direction more space seems to have been left.

Use the aux lanes where available, and merge the short into that before main line. It's not ideal but they speeds will be similar so merge better than slow to mainline.

sgarvan

serfboard wrote: »

The latest NRA stats (a new setup from the NRA so not easily linkable), reports that between the N2 and N3 (J5->J6) over 130,000 vehicles per day are travelling. :eek:

http://86.47.108.84/c2/calendar_alt.asp?sgid=ZvyVmXU8jBt9PJE$c7UXt6&spid=NRA_000000001501

Looking at the stats there was 130,000 cars passing there in March aswell and there was no traffic issues then

serfboard

sgarvan wrote: »

http://86.47.108.84/c2/calendar_alt.asp?sgid=ZvyVmXU8jBt9PJE$c7UXt6&spid=NRA_000000001501

Looking at the stats there was 130,000 cars passing there in March aswell and there was no traffic issues then

1. The link you give is for between Junctions 4 and 5, not 5 and 6 like I linked to.

2. For that junction, I can't see any day that is greater than 120K (March 28th) - which day were 130K on?

3. Based on the old data that is easily-linkable, there are 10,000 more vehicles on the M50 now than there were in 2012 or 2011.

sgarvan

serfboard wrote: »

1. The link you give is for between Junctions 4 and 5, not 5 and 6 like I linked to.

2. For that junction, I can't see any day that is greater than 120K (March 28th) - which day were 130K on?

3. Based on the old data that is easily-linkable, there are 10,000 more vehicles on the M50 now than there were in 2012 or 2011.

Change the drop down on the page to the location you want.

Here is March 7th 2013. And it has almost 130,000 as the daily number.
00-24 - 129380

http://86.47.108.84/c2/tfdayreport.asp?sgid=ZvyVmXU8jBt9PJE$c7UXt6&spid=NRA_000000001502&reportdate=2013-03-07&enddate=2013-03-07

patrickbrophy18

MYOB wrote: »

There's loads of things I'd love to see the impact of quantified:

1: There has been an increase in employment.
2: There are a number of companies now banning home-working, e.g. Yahoo.
3: There are people who have returned to cars since Network Direct, e.g. there are far less buses serving many business parks than previously

Each of these has to have added some cars to the roads, albeit that could be a tiny amount. I know of people in my current/soon-to-be-former employers who've started driving since the ND changes to the Citywest routes.

This is a very good point. There are a number of other factors which drive up (no pun intended ) use of the M50. In no particular order, here they are:

1. Bad co-ordination and integration of public transport: I often see cases where v-shaped commutes are taken to get from the place of residence to the place of work. For example, anyone living in the Dun Laoghaire burrough who works out in Tallaght or Citywest has to get a DART into town and a Luas out to one of these areas. From experience, it has taken me the guts of 2 hours traveling only one-way. Essentially, you have to go into town only to come out the other side. This would make sense if the starting location was somewhere in the burrough of Dun Laoghaire and the destination was Castleknock, Blanchardstown or Cabra. In this case, the commute is more crescent shaped. Even then, a commute of this nature can be very time consuming given the indirect nature of many public transport routes and particularly buses. Stops in quick succession can add unnecessary time length to a journey. A considerable portion of routes deviate from the desired direction of travel only to serve housing estates with narrow roads ill equipped for buses. Either-way, an element of uncertainty arises when availing of public transport. This can be daunting when people need to get to work on time. As such, people will understandably resort to using the car to get to work as it puts them back in control of their schedule. Many of these journeys would culminate on the M50.
2. Excessive short-hop journeys made by car: A massive chunk of car journeys done on a daily basis are less than 5 kilometers which monument pointed out elsewhere. A lot of these journey could very well be spilling out on to the M50 at rush hour adding superfluous congestion. This would undoubtedly place a massive strain on congestion inconveniencing those making journeys well above 10 kilometers. This is where cycling is heavily encouraged. For example, many car journeys where one travels from Tallaght to Citywest (3.3 miles) or even Liffey Valley (5.7 miles) could be replaced by cyclist journeys. This would be considered an afterthought for the keenest and fittest of cyclists who probably do well over 30 miles on a regular basis.
3. Nonsensical urban planning: In the last 50 years or so, the urban sprawl of Dublin has expanded as far out as Swords to the north, Kildare to the west and Greystones to the south. In the process, it has elasticized the journey length for regular commuters. At the same time, the bulk of a highly extensive tram network and a more diverse railway network have been dismantled. Nimby driven limitations on building heights has pushed residential and commercial development outwards from the city center.

The issues above all add exponentially to congestion on and off the M50.

Sheldons Brain

Is there any actual intention of public transport in Dublin to serve the journeys people make, or are people simply expected to organise their lives around the limited range of public transport?

serfboard

sgarvan wrote: »

Change the drop down on the page to the location you want.

Here is March 7th 2013. And it has almost 130,000 as the daily number.
00-24 - 129380

http://86.47.108.84/c2/tfdayreport.asp?sgid=ZvyVmXU8jBt9PJE$c7UXt6&spid=NRA_000000001502&reportdate=2013-03-07&enddate=2013-03-07

Fair enough. I looked through March and I get 130K or over on the following days:

March| Number
1 | 135
8 | 136
15 | 133
21 | 130
28 | 134I thought the numbers were around 100K. To see them going over 130K is a major surprise to me. Having said that, I've added to it recently myself when going from Galway to Belfast. I could have gone cross-country, but the roads are sh1te.

patrickbrophy18 wrote: »

There are a number of other factors which drive up (no pun intended ) use of the M50 ...

1. Bad co-ordination and integration of public transport: ... v-shaped commutes ...
2. Excessive short-hop journeys made by car...
3. Nonsensical urban planning

Agree with all of this.

As I've said on another thread, public transport has to be carrot and stick. If you take away one of the carrots of better public transport (the Network Direct review) then all you are left with is the stick and, given the numbers I've quoted above, I think the day is fast approaching when more tolls will be put on the M50.

will56

Stheno wrote: »

It's always like that in the morning, it's the traffic going to IBM in Damastown and the industrial parks further on.

I often work in that area and either get there early, or else factor in about twenty minutes to get through it.

Its getting worse these mornings. Huge issue at the slip road from Clonee joining the N3 up to the exit for mulhuddart.
I seen 5 lanes of traffic this morning where there should be 2 on the N3 a 1 lane merging off the slip road.
2 lanes coming down the slip road and people driving in the hard shoulder before seem to be causing jams at this simple junction

nuttlys

tobsey wrote: »

The increased traffic is caused by the fact that the M1 upgrade is now complete and there is no delay for traffic coming down the M1 and joining the M50 SB. Previously traffic would crawl from before J4 Donabate past junction 3 Swords. This acted as a throttle to prevent the M50 getting too busy. This traffic now flows straight onto the M50 and as a result the usual slowdown between J7 and J9 is starting even further back at J4.

That's so logical and probably the most likely reason the M50 has been standstill from M1/M50 to Red Cow since Sept.

I'd also agree with others that a number of large offices which were vacant for years are getting occupied on the M50 belt again. In my building alone 200 odd souls have moved in on one floor. Thats 200 cars. And in Dundrum Business Park, Car Trawler have taken quite a large floor. Thats just two examples that I know of in the last year, where in the previous 4, nothing was happening.

IMHO, before any talk of extra tolls (which are money spinning rackets anyway and should be removed when the build cost is paid for) or lane widening is even thought of, the gov really needs to put the T21 for Dublin back on the table.

http://www.dublincity.ie/RoadsandTraffic/Transport21/Documents/T21Map[1].jpg

When I saw that map, I believed it was the most obvious solutions to Dublin commuting, and still I still do. A large park'n'ride outside swords would alleviate a lot of the M1 S/B traffic. Dublin Bus to be fair have improved in terms of their cross city routes, but rail can handle many more people, easier, faster & cheaper.

I travelled J3 - J15 M50 nearly every morning & evening for 4 years, but since Sept it has been unbearable and am now finding myself just as well to go through town on days (not saying its any better time wise, but its nearly half the fuel consumption).

The M50 is becoming an issue again, but it's not necessarily the M50s' fault, its the lack of viable alternatives.

nuttlys

What are peoples thoughts on Ramp meters for the M50? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramp_meter

Has this ever been discussed?

I can think of a number of benefits off the top of head:

• creates a disincentive for drivers only travelling 1 or 2 junctions. if they see a long queue for a ramp signal they may just choose to pick an alternative route.
• could bring back a 'throttle' to the M1/M50 junction, which has turned into a super funnel causing standstill traffic on M50 SB most mornings.
• regulating the quantities of cars on the motorway at peak *should* mean more room between cars, less sudden braking and less collisions.
• Where ramps backup to the previous on-ramp junction, the on-ramp junction should stop letting cars on, meaning a more consistent and safer flow for the mainline.

pclive

Its Ireland ramp metering signals will be ignored. Drivers will think the signals are malfunctioing due to the short green. It happens when ever the ramp signals are operating at M50/N1 northbound

Colm R

Is there any possibility of segregating the traffic into different lanes

- left most lane next exit

- next lane out is for 2nd exit from now.

- right two lanes, must not be exiting for at least the next 2 exits

nuttlys

pclive wrote: »

Its Ireland ramp metering signals will be ignored. Drivers will think the signals are malfunctioing due to the short green. It happens when ever the ramp signals are operating at M50/N1 northbound

Nothing some education/enforcement couldn't handle. Thinking of when the College Green Bus Corridor was introduced, the Gard's were manning it every other day for the first 6 months or so, first 2-3 months they gave warnings, next 3 they issued fines. Drivers learnt very fast.

nuttlys

Colm R wrote: »

Is there any possibility of segregating the traffic into different lanes

- left most lane next exit

- next lane out is for 2nd exit from now.

- right two lanes, must not be exiting for at least the next 2 exits

I assume when you say 'left most lane' you mean the auxiliary lanes which are really only for traffic departing at the next exit. During off-peak (or when not over-taking), you should be driving in lane 1 (left lane) no matter how far you are travelling, so can't really implement this rule. A carpool lane could be a possibility though.

Also this doesn't resolve managing the volume of traffic on the M50.

pclive

nuttlys wrote: »

Nothing some education/enforcement couldn't handle. Thinking of when the College Green Bus Corridor was introduced, the Gard's were manning it every other day for the first 6 months or so, first 2-3 months they gave warnings, next 3 they issued fines. Drivers learnt very fast.

You obviuosly havent been around College Green lately

Colm R

nuttlys wrote: »

I assume when you say 'left most lane' you mean the auxiliary lanes which are really only for traffic departing at the next exit. During off-peak (or when not over-taking), you should be driving in lane 1 (left lane) no matter how far you are travelling, so can't really implement this rule. A carpool lane could be a possibility though.

Also this doesn't resolve managing the volume of traffic on the M50.

Kind of what I mean alright, say for example you are heading southbound after the N3, I would suggest a system whereby if you intend on leaving at the N4, you should be in the AUX lane now, and if you intend on leaving at the N7, you should be in Lane 1 now.


I'm not saying this would work, but I'm just "typing out loud" and seeing would it possible to make the two right most lanes an express lane, whereby you could only be out there if you are going further than the next two or three exits.

For now, forget about how it would work but lets just say it could.

Pros: fast moving traffic in the right most lanes not being interfered with by merging traffic.

Cons: probably serious congestion in the AUX and Lane 1.


Honestly, I would doubt it would work - I've seen it once in Toronto and it was a very wide road, possibly 11 lanes in each direction, and the right most three where known as the distributor lanes. Alas, the M50 is just not wide enough.

moxin

The problem with the AUX lane is that there is nearly always one vehicle going too slow(some at even 60kmh!) holding up the whole lane and when you're stuck behind that vehicle, you can't overtake to the right as that lane does be jampacked usually with heavy goods vehicles. Solution at the moment is unfortunately to use the fast lanes and cross 2-3 lanes of traffic less than 1km before the exit, its not right but the drivers are forced into this situation.

nuttlys

moxin wrote: »

The problem with the AUX lane is that there is nearly always one vehicle going too slow(some at even 60kmh!) holding up the whole lane and when you're stuck behind that vehicle, you can't overtake to the right as that lane does be jampacked usually with heavy goods vehicles. Solution at the moment is unfortunately to use the fast overtaking lanes and cross 2-3 lanes of traffic less than 1km before the exit, its not right but the drivers are forced into this situation.

You my friend, are what we call a dangerous driver.

Mikros

What they might need to consider in the future if traffic volumes increase on the M50 is the system of "smart motorways" they use in the UK. This basically involves variable speed limits backed up by average speed cameras to ensure a high level of compliance.

The variable speed limit is set lower downstream of traffic congestion to prevent more cars joining the end of the queue. Similarly if there is an incident or collision the response is coordinated and vehicles moved ASAP. At off peak times or when traffic volumes are low the speed limit is set back to the maximum. The whole system is automated based on various sensors and counters.

The result should be traffic that continues to move at a constant lower speed and avoids start / stop traffic. In the case of the M50 the traffic coming down the M1 travelling south bound could be throttled based on the volumes downstream, hopefully improving the situation for everyone. Now that's assuming Irish drivers can learn to merge correctly!

larchill

Asking a lot of Paddy drivers :P