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Buying a Limousin bull

  • 01-10-2013 10:01pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 162 ✭✭


    I hope to buy a Limo bull at premier sale in Roscrea at end of month,bulls that have caught my eye are either out of Sympa or Ampertaine Commander,which sire would ye rate above the other?and which should be most suitable to run with Sim and Chx heifers?


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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 185 ✭✭pbthevet


    For what its worth heres my two cents :)

    Amperatine will produce better calves, but youll get some hard calvings

    Sympa easier on the calving side.

    Both great bulls


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 124 ✭✭farmerjack


    How much are you budgeting on spending? Sympa bulls have been making a premium over the last few years. If I was buying a bull in the morning I would be chasing an on dit son top figures both maternal and terminal with high reliability.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 162 ✭✭shrek008


    pbthevet wrote: »
    For what its worth heres my two cents :)

    Amperatine will produce better calves, but youll get some hard calvings

    Sympa easier on the calving side.

    Both great bulls

    Hi and thanks for your reply,would Sympa produce nice calves for weanling trade?Is there any other sire you would reccomend?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 162 ✭✭shrek008


    farmerjack wrote: »
    How much are you budgeting on spending? Sympa bulls have been making a premium over the last few years. If I was buying a bull in the morning I would be chasing an on dit son top figures both maternal and terminal with high reliability.

    Thanks for replying,how is On Dit on the calving end of things?easy calving and quality weanlings to sell without having to creep feed for months,is it possible?Have a nice batch of Pbnr Sim heifers coming up so milk shouldnt be a prob, hopefully😳


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 162 ✭✭shrek008


    shrek008 wrote: »
    Thanks for replying,how is On Dit on the calving end of things?easy calving and quality weanlings to sell without having to creep feed for months,is it possible?Have a nice batch of Pbnr Sim heifers coming up so milk shouldnt be a prob, hopefully😳

    Sorry,thinking of budgeting for about 3k,won one of those €500 vouchers from Limo society,what kinda quality should i expect for that kinda dosh?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 839 ✭✭✭Dampintheattic


    Whatever about quality, but you are sure to get something, which was never a day, without "turbo muesli" in front of its nose! -:)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,329 ✭✭✭redzerologhlen


    Whatever about quality, but you are sure to get something, which was never a day, without "turbo muesli" in front of its nose! -:)

    +1


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 162 ✭✭shrek008


    Whatever about quality, but you are sure to get something, which was never a day, without "turbo muesli" in front of its nose! -:)

    That a good thing or a bad thing??


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 531 ✭✭✭munkus


    shrek008 wrote: »
    That a good thing or a bad thing??

    Point is that they'll melt away once you bring them home, unless of course you stay horsing the meal into him.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 185 ✭✭pbthevet


    shrek008 wrote: »
    Hi and thanks for your reply,would Sympa produce nice calves for weanling trade?Is there any other sire you would reccomend?

    Hes he would. Very good bull.

    Two you mentioned are where id probs go to. Lots of good stuff coming from the north these days.

    Rahoney umar and lenagh equaliser being used quiet a bit up here but be warey of equaliser, lots of sections last year.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,401 ✭✭✭reilig


    I have 5 or 6 calves off Commander at this stage and never had to assist any calvings. ICBF figures show 4% calving difficulty with 88% reliability for Commander and a 5.55 calving difficulty for Sympa with 94% reliability. So if I'm not mistaken, the figures from both of these bulls calvings being sent by farmers on the ground to ICBF are showing that 4 out of every 100 calvings for Commander require assistance whereas 5.5 out of every 100 calvings for Sympa need assistance which overall shows that Commander is an easier calving bull. This would fall in line with my experience of Commander calves being quite small when born and having a growth spurt at 6 to 8 weeks whereas any Sympa calves that i have are usually that bit bigger.

    Commander is 5 star for maternal and terminal figures, heifers off him have great milk figures.

    I like him! I like sympa too, but don't think that he is as much of an all rounder as Commander but perhaps he has just been marketed better than Commander?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,151 ✭✭✭kupus


    Everything you need to know about Limousins here...... Well worth the read.

    http://www.anfearrua.ie/topic.aspx?id=436611


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 839 ✭✭✭Dampintheattic


    reilig wrote: »
    I have 5 or 6 calves off Commander at this stage and never had to assist any calvings. ICBF figures show 4% calving difficulty with 88% reliability for Commander and a 5.55 calving difficulty for Sympa with 94% reliability. So if I'm not mistaken, the figures from both of these bulls calvings being sent by farmers on the ground to ICBF are showing that 4 out of every 100 calvings for Commander require assistance whereas 5.5 out of every 100 calvings for Sympa need assistance which overall shows that Commander is an easier calving bull. This would fall in line with my experience of Commander calves being quite small when born and having a growth spurt at 6 to 8 weeks whereas any Sympa calves that i have are usually that bit bigger.

    Commander is 5 star for maternal and terminal figures, heifers off him have great milk figures.

    I like him! I like sympa too, but don't think that he is as much of an all rounder as Commander but perhaps he has just been marketed better than Commander?


    Could also look at a Wilodge Cerberus (WGE) sired bull.
    Similar figures to Commander, except for docility, where he doesn't do well.
    Have seen good few calves off of him, and they look the business.

    I have a stock bull off him, this year. No calves yet, so can't comment.
    On the docility score, he is excellent. Very easily managed.

    Let's see how his progeny turn out, next spring, or more like next autumn at sale time.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 162 ✭✭shrek008


    reilig wrote: »
    I have 5 or 6 calves off Commander at this stage and never had to assist any calvings. ICBF figures show 4% calving difficulty with 88% reliability for Commander and a 5.55 calving difficulty for Sympa with 94% reliability. So if I'm not mistaken, the figures from both of these bulls calvings being sent by farmers on the ground to ICBF are showing that 4 out of every 100 calvings for Commander require assistance whereas 5.5 out of every 100 calvings for Sympa need assistance which overall shows that Commander is an easier calving bull. This would fall in line with my experience of Commander calves being quite small when born and having a growth spurt at 6 to 8 weeks whereas any Sympa calves that i have are usually that bit bigger.

    Commander is 5 star for maternal and terminal figures, heifers off him have great milk figures.

    I like him! I like sympa too, but don't think that he is as much of an all rounder as Commander but perhaps he has just been marketed better than Commander?

    Do you have a stock bull from either of them,or is it Ai you using?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 162 ✭✭shrek008


    Any one got any idea of what kinda money sons of either Commander or Sympa are making?I hear bulls are supposed to be back a good bit in price,especially Limousin!
    Maybe thats all sh**te!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,329 ✭✭✭redzerologhlen


    shrek008 wrote: »
    Any one got any idea of what kinda money sons of either Commander or Sympa are making?I hear bulls are supposed to be back a good bit in price,especially Limousin!
    Maybe thats all sh**te!

    Seen a few sympa bulls at sales earlier in the year and they seemed nervous enough I thought. We had a bull by Genial who would be sympas sire here for a few years and while he bred good calves he left a few nutters after him. last bull I bought is 5* for docility, nothing worse than mad ones.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 162 ✭✭shrek008


    Seen a few sympa bulls at sales earlier in the year and they seemed nervous enough I thought. We had a bull by Genial who would be sympas sire here for a few years and while he bred good calves he left a few nutters after him. last bull I bought is 5* for docility, nothing worse than mad ones.

    What kinda money did the Sympa bulls make?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20 landybeast


    I purchased a sympa bull last February 16 months old and not over done only in the shed a month direct off breeder for 2400. 5 star terminal 4 maternal 5 star docility. No calves yet but hopefully bring on the quality a little bit further but not the best figures for milk if you need it. Very quite nearly to quite. Friend or mine has one and when i was talking to him after :eek: I bought mine he was very disappointed in calves, he said they all popped out easy enough but remained small that was at about 8 weeks. Talking to him last week completely different very happy with him.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 162 ✭✭shrek008


    landybeast wrote: »
    I purchased a sympa bull last February 16 months old and not over done only in the shed a month direct off breeder for 2400. 5 star terminal 4 maternal 5 star docility. No calves yet but hopefully bring on the quality a little bit further but not the best figures for milk if you need it. Very quite nearly to quite. Friend or mine has one and when i was talking to him after :eek: I bought mine he was very disappointed in calves, he said they all popped out easy enough but remained small that was at about 8 weeks. Talking to him last week completely different very happy with him.

    Did his calves turn into well muscled weanlings?
    What kinda cows are you running your bull with?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,202 ✭✭✭Bitten & Hisses


    Looking at the catalogue, there is a nice (on paper at least) Ramses bull, lot 36, from one of the top breeders. Also like the look of lot 86. Trouble here is you could be into big €€€, you just never know until the sale itself.
    One of the best, most docile bulls I ever bred was a Ramses son. A nearby farmer bought him and was delighted with calf quality and ease of calving. I am now running a bull by Neuf and have a full brother to the previous Ramses bull born in 2013, who I am intending to use when he's old enough.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 162 ✭✭shrek008


    Looking at the catalogue, there is a nice (on paper at least) Ramses bull, lot 36, from one of the top breeders. Also like the look of lot 86. Trouble here is you could be into big €€€, you just never know until the sale itself.
    One of the best, most docile bulls I ever bred was a Ramses son. A nearby farmer bought him and was delighted with calf quality and ease of calving. I am now running a bull by Neuf and have a full brother to the previous Ramses bull born in 2013, who I am intending to use when he's old enough.

    Ya lot 86 is on me list allright!How do you find the Neuf bull,is he easy on the calving side?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,202 ✭✭✭Bitten & Hisses


    Extremely easy calving, thank God. Even had a (thankfully live) set of twins unassisted.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 162 ✭✭shrek008


    Extremely easy calving, thank God. Even had a (thankfully live) set of twins unassisted.

    Would that Ramses bull you spoke of be suitable to use on heifers?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,202 ✭✭✭Bitten & Hisses


    My former Ramses bull was used on heifers at first and then cows by the man who bought him. He had no problems with calving and was very happy with calf quality.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20 landybeast


    Cows are mostly 2rd cross lims from lm/fr, bb/fr and he/fr. Used ai at the start and had 90% u grade animals, then bought a malibu bull great for breeding heifers but bulls dropped back to 90% r=/r+. So thats why i went with sympa to try bring grades back up a little and going back to buying some ch/fr (dairy farmer changed to a char bull) heifers calves for replacments. My new lad is 4.2 calving diff I would not go above 5% with current cows, No calving jack here.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,329 ✭✭✭redzerologhlen


    landybeast wrote: »
    Cows are mostly 2rd cross lims from lm/fr, bb/fr and he/fr. Used ai at the start and had 90% u grade animals, then bought a malibu bull great for breeding heifers but bulls dropped back to 90% r=/r+. So thats why i went with sympa to try bring grades back up a little and going back to buying some ch/fr (dairy farmer changed to a char bull) heifers calves for replacments. My new lad is 4.2 calving diff I would not go above 5% with current cows, No calving jack here.

    I wouldnt be a big fan of Malibu, a neighbour has a Malibu stock bull and he's a fine bull to look at him but doesn't breed very well on fairly good cows. I bought a few heifers off him and am a bit disappointed with they way they bred compared to our own to be honest. Sympa would in general bring more stylish animals than Malibu I would imagine.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 162 ✭✭shrek008


    So from what i can gather ;
    1-Commander
    2-Sympa
    3- Ramses/On Dit
    In that order for ease of calving and to produce quality weanlings.
    Would i be right?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,401 ✭✭✭reilig


    shrek008 wrote: »
    So from what i can gather ;
    1-Commander
    2-Sympa
    3- Ramses/On Dit
    In that order for ease of calving and to produce quality weanlings.
    Would i be right?

    I don't think you can put order on them. 50% of what you get will be determined by the cow. If you have good big cows that calve easy and want to produce weanlings for export then I'd be looking at something broader than any of the above. If you want a bull for a mix of heifers and cows then the above will be good all rounders.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 162 ✭✭shrek008


    Thanks to all for the info😊


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,716 ✭✭✭1chippy


    I cant believe im saying this. buy a charlaois. i am not long in from cootehill weanling show and sale and the limos were just not in the game at all. ive nearly all limo here and reckon if they were a different shade they would be at least 150 more per head.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,747 ✭✭✭Mac Taylor


    Same here aswell. The ch is commanding a premium. Anyone hazard a guess as to why? Is it just a phase!.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,274 ✭✭✭Bodacious


    Mac Taylor wrote: »
    Same here aswell. The ch is commanding a premium. Anyone hazard a guess as to why? Is it just a phase!.

    Charolais are king at the moment yellows/whites or combination of both but not that ****ty brown, lims or blues were well behind at clifden show n sale today

    Champion calf cloverfield excellent (75% ch 25%BB) 550kg E1480 not sold

    neighbour got 1000 for 300kg yellow bull

    heifer were back and some lovely lim X heifers E600-700,
    average and butty BB's no use (no shippers) but more noticeably the good fancy muscley black or red lim bulls are back even more against the CHAROLAIS


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 162 ✭✭shrek008


    Yeah i believe that the Limo's have taken a hammering this year!Why do u guys think this is happening?is there such a big difference at kill out time?
    I cant see meself getting much sleep if i have 24 heifers in calf to a charolais!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,087 ✭✭✭vanderbadger


    shrek008 wrote: »
    Yeah i believe that the Limo's have taken a hammering this year!Why do u guys think this is happening?is there such a big difference at kill out time?
    I cant see meself getting much sleep if i have 24 heifers in calf to a charolais!

    char ahead of limos every year i reckon, same story in ennis always unless they are stand out limos
    that said I have a nice young limo bull, bred from ramses bull and panda cow..


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 162 ✭✭shrek008


    Hi guys,just an update,purchased a 14 month old bull at prem sale in Roscrea yesterday.He is out of On-Dit and a Tanko cow,not overly pumped up with meal -590kgs,5 stars all round,so hopefully he is lucky now!
    Buyers market there yesterday,a lot not sold.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,921 ✭✭✭onyerbikepat


    I was in Roscrea myself. I remember that bull. Fine animal. You bought him handy enough, from what I remember. Buyers market alright, with a lot of good quality bulls not sold.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 143 ✭✭Madden171


    Any one going down to the limousin heifers sale in roscrea at the weekend, was planning on going down could u get anything descent for around the 2k mark or would i be better waiting a few months and buying a better heifer ???


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,921 ✭✭✭onyerbikepat


    Well last May's sale had an average price of € 3069 and a clearance of 64%. I was at the sale and I saw decent heifers for around the €2500 to €2800 mark. These would be nice looking heifers with at least 3 generations of AI breeding, but I wouldnt be an expert on them.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,650 ✭✭✭Munster Magic


    Madden171 wrote: »
    Any one going down to the limousin heifers sale in roscrea at the weekend, was planning on going down could u get anything descent for around the 2k mark or would i be better waiting a few months and buying a better heifer ???

    You will get a nice heifer for between 2000 and 2500, the minimum bid is 1800 but prices are back a good bit. I have seen alot of heifers go in without making much over 2300 and it was hard to pick out why as they looked good heifers

    I have 2 heifers in it myself on Saturday and tbh I wouldn't be shocked if I don't sell. I haven't huge money on either but the buyers just aren't there. Its an ideal time to be buying but unfortunately I cant see the same about selling


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,083 ✭✭✭bogman_bass


    Bodacious wrote: »
    Charolais are king at the moment yellows/whites or combination of both but not that ****ty brown, lims or blues were well behind at clifden show n sale today

    so what you're saying is there's value to be had at the moment with lims or a "badly" coloured charolais? :D


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,650 ✭✭✭Munster Magic


    Madden171 wrote: »
    Any one going down to the limousin heifers sale in roscrea at the weekend, was planning on going down could u get anything descent for around the 2k mark or would i be better waiting a few months and buying a better heifer ???

    I also meant to say if you are considering buying on Saturday I would advise going to Roscrea on Friday evening if you are anywhere around there.

    There will be a big difference in the heifers on Friday evening and on Saturday and as good as they look on Saturday they wont look like that for long when you bring them home unfortunately so at least if you are there on the Friday night you will have a better idea of what you are buying


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 143 ✭✭Madden171


    Thanks for the reply I actually live up north of the country so would be going down Saturday, I might just look at prices but what bulls are producing good heifers I know people will have different ideas on this, but thanks again for replying appreciated


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,650 ✭✭✭Munster Magic


    Madden171 wrote: »
    Thanks for the reply I actually live up north of the country so would be going down Saturday, I might just look at prices but what bulls are producing good heifers I know people will have different ideas on this, but thanks again for replying appreciated

    I know it's stating the obvious but I have seen some great Vantastic heifers at shows around the country but then again most people won't be selling those heifers. Some nice Sympa and Cerberus heifers around as well and I have had 2 Erasmus heifers off an Ideal 23 cow and I have to say I am very happy with them.

    If you are looking for a heifer you should still try and make it down on Saturday as I can see it being a buyers trade. Hopefully I am wrong though


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,921 ✭✭✭onyerbikepat


    Good luck tomorrow Munster Magic.
    Give us a good report back on proceedings.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 162 ✭✭shrek008


    Good luck tomorrow Munster Magic.
    Give us a good report back on proceedings.

    Ya,would be good to hear how things went! Best of luck


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,650 ✭✭✭Munster Magic


    Good luck tomorrow Munster Magic.
    Give us a good report back on proceedings.

    Here's hoping, not long home. Some very nice heifers in it, lot 50 is a very nice Vantastic heifer and 52 and 53 are a smashing pair of Cerberus heifers


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,921 ✭✭✭onyerbikepat




  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,921 ✭✭✭onyerbikepat


    I see 52 was Junior Champion and 53 Reserve Junior Champion.(Tweets up now on Limousin website) You must have a good eye.;)

    52 goes for € 7,500 and 53 for € 8,600. Good day at the office.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,083 ✭✭✭bogman_bass


    why is it that the reserve nearly always makes more money than the champion?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,650 ✭✭✭Munster Magic


    3 heifers I mentioned here last night made €7100, €7500 and €8600. Unfortunately my pockets weren't deep enough to buy any of them but as a sale it was much better than I expected

    Other top prices included the senior champion by Dancer for €7100 and €5200 for a daughter of Copilot while 2 other Dancer heifers made €4800 and €4600


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