US govt shutdown

the_monkey

http://www.news.com.au/business/markets/what-happens-if-the-us-government-shuts-down/story-e6frfm30-1226730724779

So national parks like Grand Canyon will be closed ????

How can they close a national park ? surely you will still be able to visit, just no guides - shops etc ??

silja

Mostly yes- also no lodges, electricity and water shut off at campgrounds etc. The larger roads have gates on them that will be closed, but they can;t really stop you hiking if you want to.

the_monkey

So in affect the only access is on foot ?

we will be renting a car , is there smaller roads one can access ?

iusedtoknow

not really, hiking will be your only answer, and apparently in Yosemite, if you are caught in the park after the shut down, you'll be fined (unsure how this will work...)

Ruu

A few parks where a couple of my friends run in northern Illinois were barricaded off today. I think you can still get access by other roads. Unsure about the bigger national parks, sad stuff.

the_monkey

iusedtoknow wrote: »

not really, hiking will be your only answer, and apparently in Yosemite, if you are caught in the park after the shut down, you'll be fined (unsure how this will work...)

:O !! Seriously ???

In a PARK ??

It's not like they are breaking into a museum ...

land of the free?????


Bullshiit ..

InTheTrees

the_monkey wrote: »

So in affect the only access is on foot ?

we will be renting a car , is there smaller roads one can access ?

There's lliabilty issues. Insurance. Its not like some little city park; they're hundreds of square miles and they cant have the public running around unsupervised.

There's also the real risk of fire with unsupervised access.

iusedtoknow

Yeah - yosemite alone is around the size of County Waterford...you couldn't have a free for all there...

InTheTrees

the_monkey wrote: »

:O !! Seriously ???

In a PARK ??

It's not like they are breaking into a museum ...

land of the free?????


Bullshiit ..

???

Its a "National Park" not the bush. Its not a free open area.

Its a National Park with its manicured pathways and helpful signs and loos every hundred yards. Plus parking facilities and camp sites with electricity and water hookups. Its sanitized "wilderness" for tourists to go and marvel in.

But there's millions of square miles of real wilderness all over the country you can go find yourself in (and be Free) without anyones permission if you want to.

InTheTrees

iusedtoknow wrote: »

Yeah - yosemite alone is around the size of County Waterford...you couldn't have a free for all there...

Many firefighters die every year putting out fires in the west.

So right, if its closed its closed.

iusedtoknow

And to be honest - I am thinking more about the million or so that are going without pay for the foreseeable future rather than the inconveniences that the shut down will bring

goz83

Ah Crap!!!!

I fly to Vegas on Monday and NYC a few days later. Main things I wanted to see/do was the chopper trip into the canyon and then visit a couple of museums in NYC. They better sort this sh1t out, or i'll be very disappointed and write a strong worded letter to some dude in the senate who don't give a crap anyway....maybe.

Will the canyon be off the cards for the chopper trip?

iusedtoknow

goz83 wrote: »

Ah Crap!!!!

I fly to Vegas on Monday and NYC a few days later. Main things I wanted to see/do was the chopper trip into the canyon and then visit a couple of museums in NYC. They better sort this sh1t out, or i'll be very disappointed and write a strong worded letter to some dude in the senate who don't give a crap anyway....maybe.

Will the canyon be off the cards for the chopper trip?

shouldn't be unless you are meant to land (i know there is a tour that does that)

As for the museums..afaik only the places like liberty island/ellis island etc is closed. The art museums etc should still be open
Just checked the Met, the MOMA and natural history are all open

goz83

Atually yeah, wanted to do the landing one in the canyon, rather than just a flyover.

helimachoptor

Hopefully they sort this by next Tuesday

the_monkey

Yeah jesus , it would be fierce dangerous to land like , not without the one super policeman/doctor/vet/lifeguard that would otherwise be on duty - one per every 50 square meters.

Its ridiculous , like when they shut down the WHOLE CITY OF BOSTON for ONE guy .....

Do Americans really buy this crap ?

the_monkey

iusedtoknow wrote: »

Yeah - yosemite alone is around the size of County Waterford...you couldn't have a free for all there...

And what difference would it make if it was open ? is there guys with rifles protecting you from bears every 100 yards ???

zl1whqvjs75cdy

I don't get why the government shuts down. Is there really a need for it?

Ponster

helimachoptor wrote: »

Hopefully they sort this by next Tuesday

Looks like it'll be at least 2 weeks according to the news reports.

Ponster

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

I don't get why the government shuts down. Is there really a need for it?

There's no 'need' as such but there isn't any other option. One of the major roles of congress is to approve bills that give the Government money so that it can run. If both parties don't agree then there's no other solution than to stop all non-essential services.

silja

We have a whole forum for policy and shutdown discussions: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=1028

[-0-]

Obama should make a speech saying he's against creating jobs. Then republicans would create millions of them because they'll think Obama is against it.

ProudDUB

goz83 wrote: »

Ah Crap!!!!

I fly to Vegas on Monday and NYC a few days later. Main things I wanted to see/do was the chopper trip into the canyon and then visit a couple of museums in NYC. They better sort this sh1t out, or i'll be very disappointed and write a strong worded letter to some dude in the senate who don't give a crap anyway....maybe.

Will the canyon be off the cards for the chopper trip?

Museums and what not should be fine. Most of them are privately run, or run by charitiable trusts or local city authorities. They aren't run by the federal government, so they won't be affected by the shut down. It's not like here where most the main galleries and museums are operated by the gummermint under the auspices of the Office of Public Works.

If all you are doing is flying over the Grand Canyon, you'll be fine. If you were planning on touching down for a look around, you may be affected. There are designated take off and landing spots within the Grand Canyon National Park, that the helicopter pilots have to abide by. If the park rangers aren't around to man them, flights in and out may very well be canceled.

ixoy

Heading off shortly to Nevada/CA and, unless this is sorted, it screws up:

Grand Canyon Visit - Booked a tour to see the Southern Rim which is in the park and thus not happening right now. You can still it part of it at the Western Rim which isn't in the park itself.

Yosemite Overnight Stay - Booked and all but won't be getting in here.

Alcatraz - Shut down. Can't visit this.

One of the holidays of a life time is being messed up. Yes, it'll affect some Americans a lot more but there's threads elsewhere for that. For tourists, like myself, it's going to put a major dampener on holidays that they've been planning for ages.

rockonollie

ixoy wrote: »

Heading off shortly to Nevada/CA and, unless this is sorted, it screws up:

Grand Canyon Visit - Booked a tour to see the Southern Rim which is in the park and thus not happening right now. You can still it part of it at the Western Rim which isn't in the park itself.

Yosemite Overnight Stay - Booked and all but won't be getting in here.

Alcatraz - Shut down. Can't visit this.

One of the holidays of a life time is being messed up. Yes, it'll affect some Americans a lot more but there's threads elsewhere for that. For tourists, like myself, it's going to put a major dampener on holidays that they've been planning for ages.

If you happen to get to the grand canyon portion fo your trip before this mess is sorted out......look at the Navajo Nation parks....not quite the grand canyon but monument valley is navajo and there are several other canyon and river parks in the grand canyon area.....Navajo nation is an independent entity and their facilities are staying open.

Ruu

I have a 30 mile trail run in northern Illinois on October 12, going to have to move the race as the land is owned by the army, currently barricaded.

tricky D

I'm outside Yosemite right now. Word from the locals is that you can drive through, no problem but only have 3 hours to do so. Apparently they are taking your reg as you enter and checking at the other. The fine if caught is BIG. I'm going to do Mammoth Lakes and June/Grant Lakes instead and drive through Yosemite during the afternoon.

InTheTrees

tricky D wrote: »

I'm outside Yosemite right now. Word from the locals is that you can drive through, no problem but only have 3 hours to do so. Apparently they are taking your reg as you enter and checking at the other. The fine if caught is BIG. I'm going to do Mammoth Lakes and June/Grant Lakes instead and drive through Yosemite during the afternoon.

Wow. You're on the front lines of this political mess. Sorry its impacting your trip but you're in a beautiful place at least and there's far more scenery than the park. Tahoe is pretty too.

[-0-]

ixoy wrote: »

Heading off shortly to Nevada/CA and, unless this is sorted, it screws up:

Grand Canyon Visit - Booked a tour to see the Southern Rim which is in the park and thus not happening right now. You can still it part of it at the Western Rim which isn't in the park itself.

Yosemite Overnight Stay - Booked and all but won't be getting in here.

Alcatraz - Shut down. Can't visit this.

One of the holidays of a life time is being messed up. Yes, it'll affect some Americans a lot more but there's threads elsewhere for that. For tourists, like myself, it's going to put a major dampener on holidays that they've been planning for ages.

This is awful.

I really hope this is sorted out ASAP.

helimachoptor

the same, flying to SF tomorrow, Alcatraz booked for monday, 2 night stay in yosemite and then a 1 night stay in crater lake, all in trouble now :mad:

tricky D

Just to confirm, helicopter tours of the Grand Canyon are working just fine and well worth the $250ish:)

There is a very small consolation re the shutdown. If you are visiting a smaller NP facility, you won't have to pay the small entrance fees. Eg. Taking the Mono Lake trail usually is $3, but with no one there to charge you...

MadsL

tricky D wrote: »

Just to confirm, helicopter tours of the Grand Canyon are working just fine and well worth the $250ish:)

There is a very small consolation re the shutdown. If you are visiting a smaller NP facility, you won't have to pay the small entrance fees. Eg. Taking the Mono Lake trail usually is $3, but with no one there to charge you...

Hope there is no barrier across the road.

the_monkey

Is it possible to just walk into the Grand Canyon park ?

how far are the 1st view points from the entrance gate on the southern rim ?

iusedtoknow

the_monkey wrote: »

Is it possible to just walk into the Grand Canyon park ?

how far are the 1st view points from the entrance gate on the southern rim ?

nope...the entrance is at a visitors center a way back from the rim - you could probably not be allowed that far as the 4000 staff that work there are furloughed except for the ones posted at the gate

the_monkey

iusedtoknow wrote: »

nope...the entrance is at a visitors center a way back from the rim - you could probably not be allowed that far as the 4000 staff that work there are furloughed except for the ones posted at the gate

Great ....

iusedtoknow

the_monkey wrote: »

Great ....

You'll find here that they are VERY strict on these sorts of things. To be honest, I wouldn't risk it or waste the petrol. You won't be able to talk your way passed these guys (why would you even try?...they have access to firearms). At this time of year 18000 a day visit the canyon, they are not letting anyone through.

The grand canyon is a long drive from anywhere - better to either fly over it or hope that the shutdown ends before you want to go.

the_monkey

iusedtoknow wrote: »

You'll find here that they are VERY strict on these sorts of things. To be honest, I wouldn't risk it or waste the petrol. You won't be able to talk your way passed these guys (why would you even try?...they have access to firearms). At this time of year 18000 a day visit the canyon, they are not letting anyone through.

The grand canyon is a long drive from anywhere - better to either fly over it or hope that the shutdown ends before you want to go.

Yep, we go October 11-20 , hopefully within that time frame it opens/shutdown ends..

helimachoptor

Damn shut down :mad::mad:

Eight Ball

Tbh you'll be lucky if this is over by then. Looks like things will go right up until the debt deadline and possibly beyond.

InTheTrees

helimachoptor wrote: »

Damn shut down :mad::mad:

Damn Indianapolis colts...

Did you find a good place to watch the game?

the_monkey

Eight Ball wrote: »

Tbh you'll be lucky if this is over by then. Looks like things will go right up until the debt deadline and possibly beyond.

Thanks , you don't know that tho ...

the_monkey

F*ck this , I'm gonna just walk in , if they wanna shoot a guy with a camera to take once in a lifetime photos they can fúcking shoot me ....


At least the media will make a big story of it ..

BuffyBot

"Man gets shot" does not equal big story in the USA. You might feature on the local news, possibly, depending on whether or not a kitten has cured someone's cancer, or the mayor is revealing the world's biggest hamburger etc

InTheTrees

the_monkey wrote: »

F*ck this , I'm gonna just walk in , if they wanna shoot a guy with a camera to take once in a lifetime photos they can fúcking shoot me ....

Have you looked at the map? If you're serious, best of luck, (I dont think they'd shoot you.)

But there arent many places to leave your car without it being noticed and then you'd probably have at least fifteen miles of hiking through the bush. Unless youre going to camp overnight then thats a 30 mile hike. Buy a good GPS. And a backup. You know about what do about snake bites right?

https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=36.022967,-112.122731&spn=0.024574,0.041499&t=h&z=15&layer=c&cbll=36.022965,-112.12273&panoid=dw3STWVsl4HMjg-_KE3uIw&cbp=12,1.4,,0,4.19

tricky D

I would not advise that. There are rangers at some strategic points. Also bear in mind it's federal jurisdiction, so penalties are a good bit higher.

the_monkey

Pffft, had my hopes up there when Obama and Boehner were speaking , alas nothing resolved.

Its true, it's a game of chicken and no one ever swerves 500m before the cars collide , it either ends in a crash or a last second swerve.

dave2pvd

the_monkey wrote: »

Is it possible to just walk into the Grand Canyon park ?

how far are the 1st view points from the entrance gate on the southern rim ?

Go look on Google Maps. I think you'll be surprised at the scale of the Grand Canyon United States.

the_monkey

Looking good with these talks !! , also good thing is Monument Valley is open, it's a Navajo park so the govt can't get their greedy mits on it..

phonchoman

any point in cancelling flights at this stage? would aer lingus cancel flights too?

what doctor would give a sick note to save me the small fortune on flights?!

damn you republicans!

the_monkey

phonchoman wrote: »

any point in cancelling flights at this stage? would aer lingus cancel flights too?

what doctor would give a sick note to save me the small fortune on flights?!

damn you republicans!

I wouldn't go doing that yet, things could change soon - at least they are talking now, and plenty of places open that aren't federal parks

the_monkey

Grand Canyon re opening
But some reports say just for Columbus weekend (this) others say up to 10 days ?
I have very limited access can someone confirm this ?