F1 2013 Round 14 - Korean Grand Prix

Charlie-Bravo

Frostie500 said he's busy with WSB so thought I'd get a thread going...

Everyone is wondering how the RB of Vettel was so competitive at the race in Singapore. Being 2 secs faster around the lap than everyone including Webber. There's a lot of speculation and with such tight twisty parts of the Korean track, maybe we'll see more of this advantage.

Myrddin

astrofluff wrote: »

maybe we'll see more of this advantage.

I'd say there's no maybe about it, unless there's a reliability issue or crash, the winner is already decided I'm afraid

Charlie-Bravo

Yeah fair point - and it would be interesting to see how Vettel's betting odds are: 8/11 on paddypower at the moment. Not even worth the walk to the bookies!

Myrddin

I've more or less given up hope on a championship battle at this stage, Red Bull are too good to let a 50 point gap disappear. Sigh, here's hoping 2014 provides a decent championship race

Jordan 199

I'm hoping Lewis will manage to make a trip to the podium this weekend. Or even win

He's been super all year.

Bugatti

LIGHTNING wrote: »

The championship was over about 3 races ago our only hope is for a decent mid-field battle.

Not exactly mid-field but Im really hoping for a big battle between Alonso and Kimi in one of the remaining races this year. Would be a nice warm up for 2014!

And as unlikely as it is, I'd love to see Massa pick up one final win (even a podium) for Ferrari before leaving the team.

ottostreet

Clive Mason/Getty Images

With only 6 races remaining in 2013, it's time for F1 to head for Yeongam for the fourth Korean Grand Prix.

With the championship seemingly a formality waiting to be signed off on by Sebastian Vettel, there appears to be very little chance that anyone can even come close as we head into the tracks where Vettel has been traditionally strong over the last few seasons.

Technical analysis from certain quarters, such as this excellent insight from James Allen suggest that all the devlopment work Red Bull have been concentrating on this season, has been eliminating the weaknesses of previous iterations of their RB9. While the Bulls since 2009 have been excellent on fast flowing, mid to high downforce tracks, they have had less of an advantage in terms of traction and on high speed low downforce tracks, like Monza.

Singapore, Monza and Spa suggest that Red Bull have solved their weaknesses, without losing anything of an advantage at their usual strengths. This means that, instead of becoming weaker, Red Bull & Vettel are most likely at their most unbeatable, right as we reach the end of the current set of F1 rules. While it may be considered dull by many of the anti-Vettel brigade, no driver and team has unlocked this level of dominance since Schumacher in his F2004.

There is no point just yet in speculating as to whether this dominance will end next season, as with 6 rounds remaining, there is still a lot to play for. Who can seal second place in the Drivers Championship? Can Lewis Hamilton assert himself as the dominant character at Mercedes? Will Mark Webber score a swansong victory before he waves au-revoir?

Fernando Alonso may become the highest points scorer ever in F1 history this weekend, should he finish first or second. While this is largely due to the changes in the points system meaning that scores have rocketed for modern drivers, it will be an impressive feat for the Ferrari driver should he manage to pull it off. Alonso is the only man to have lead any laps in Korea, apart from Vettel. While he has only lead 7% of the total amount of racing laps at Yeongnam, crucially, they were the final ten laps in the dramatic 2010 race after Sebastian's Renault engine expired while leading.

So can anyone else lead a lap in Korea this weekend? Noone apart from Vettel and Alonso has finished in the top two since we resumed racing after the Summer break, but the most likely contenders are the usual challengers...the Mercs & Kimi Raikkonen. Mercedes would probably have ended up ahead of Alonso in Singapore, had it not been for an untimely safety car, but their record in Korea is not as sterling as it is at other tracks. 9th and 10th is all they could muster during last season's race, and it will take an almighty effort from Mercedes to even threaten Vettel now, even on single lap pace.

Lotus looked far happier with 'normal' downforce levels in Singapore, and while Raikkonen isn't likely to suffer from back pain in qualifying this time out, they don't look like the team to usurp Vettel or Alonso from the top positions. They are still too reliant on the conservative one trick pony that is 'make a stop less than our rivals'. While effective in terms of safe and solid points finishes, wins look out of reach.

The same can be said for Mark Webber. Even if Sebastian Vettel was to sit at home by his lake in Switzerland this weekend, Mark Webber still doesn't appear to be hooked up enough in 2013 to guide his Red Bull to a victory. The 2010 race here in Korea is arguably the reason why Mark wasn't champion that season, and the Australian looks to have never recovered from the effects of that race. While most fans would dearly love to see the popular Aussie sign off his F1 career with a win, it doesn't really look feasible right now.

A typhoon is threatening the Korean circuit this weekend, although there is still only a 40% chance it may hit the track on Sunday. A typhoon would almost certainly mean a delayed race or even a cancellation, as the medical helicopter can't fly in such conditions, as well as the effects on track conditions. A wet race may mean more chance of a fluke result or a crazy race, but for the sake of having a race at all, let's hope for dry conditions.

Prediction: 1. Vettel 2. Alonso 3. Webber.

losthorizon

There is supposed to be absolutely terrible weather for the race on Sunday. A typhon is in the area.

Myrddin

losthorizon wrote: »

There is supposed to be absolutely terrible weather for the race on Sunday. A typhon is in the area.

I wonder how badly the race will be affected by the safety car if its raining heavily

Thought they said yesterday it probably won't directly hit.

There's no point hoping for rain in races, once it's enough to have an effect the red flag goes out, it's a ****ing joke.

losthorizon

Deleted User wrote: »

Thought they said yesterday it probably won't directly hit.

There's no point hoping for rain in races, once it's enough to have an effect the red flag goes out, it's a ****ing joke.

I agree its a joke. Although the typhoon wont directly hit I was looking at accuweather and they have rain forecast for virtually the entire Sunday .

Korea in 2010 in the wet was one of the races were it slipped away from Webber in his tussle with Vettel a couple of years ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFtNE1Jjgac

Myrddin

losthorizon wrote: »

Korea in 2010 in the wet was one of the races were it slipped away from Webber in his tussle with Vettel a couple of years ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFtNE1Jjgac

For me that's where Webber lost the title in 2010.

But it'll be safety car city on Sunday I'd say

losthorizon

losthorizon wrote: »

I agree its a joke. Although the typhoon wont directly hit I was looking at accuweather and they have rain forecast for virtually the entire Sunday .

Korea in 2010 in the wet was one of the races were it slipped away from Webber in his tussle with Vettel a couple of years ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFtNE1Jjgac

I've been on about it for a while but it annoys me so much that in a race the only level of moisture they can race in is when it's suitable for inters. Get rid of the bloody wets if that's the case.

Tempted to not get up for the race if rain is forecast, the summer's over and I have stuff to do :pac:

mickdw

Lewis at the press conference answering the final question - The last time he had a car that he could plant the throttle like Vettel currently can was back when he had traction control. Smiles all round from the other drivers.

The start of this session was as if the teams were trolling the boring thing :P

Kimi dumps it into the wall to finish FP1.

Bugatti

Deleted User wrote: »

Kimi dumps it into the wall to finish FP1.

A lot of the drivers seem to be struggling for grip in practice.

Sparks43

PMSL just got a twitter question answered on P3

Nice:D

smellslikeshoes

So who's awake :pac:?

Ghost Train

For the moment I am
Didn't watch P3 though, looking at times Redbull looking good for qualifying

Might be close for quali but looking like another Vettel blowout once the car doesn't break on Sunday.

Ghost Train

Deleted User wrote: »

Might be close for quali but looking like another Vettel blowout once the car doesn't break on Sunday.

or Weather could be factor.

smellslikeshoes

Ted needs to give up all this F1 stuff and host his own travel show :pac:

Ghost Train

Ghost Train wrote: »

or Weather could be factor.

Looking like it?

mickdw

Did I miss anything in fp3?
Certainly not expecting anything too exciting here in quali.

Ghost Train

Deleted User wrote: »

Looking like it?

not sure, some rain early sunday by sound of it
looking like it will be cooler anyway, which seems to suit Mercedes for tyres

smellslikeshoes

Saubers looking mighty.

Idiot teams and Williams out in Q1.

Ted just saying what I was thinking there now, would be hilarious if Williams dropped below the stupid teams in the standings before the end of the season. They really need to take a good ****ing look at themselves.

Bugatti

Deleted User wrote: »

Ted just saying what I was thinking there now, would be hilarious if Williams dropped below the stupid teams in the standings before the end of the season. They really need to take a good ****ing look at themselves.

It really kills me to see the state Williams are in. Really had hoped teaming up with Renault would work out. Maybe their fortunes will change when Mercedes arrive. If not then I'd worry for their future in the sport.

PopePalpatine

I wonder what sort of financial state Williams are in, and what their F1 budget is.

Jordan 199

Deleted User wrote: »

Ted just saying what I was thinking there now, would be hilarious if Williams dropped below the stupid teams in the standings before the end of the season. They really need to take a good ****ing look at themselves.

I think Williams will finish third from the bottom this season. If they finish with just one point in the Constructors Championship this year, it will be their worst result in the Constructors Championship since they started building their own cars in 1978.

PopePalpatine wrote: »

I wonder what sort of financial state Williams are in, and what their F1 budget is.

Williams budget is around $145m

oceanman

the problem with Williams is there is nobody steering the ship anymore...no patrick head, no frank Williams..

losthorizon

oceanman wrote: »

the problem with Williams is there is nobody steering the ship anymore...no patrick head, no frank Williams..

Well, the rot started when they were both in the team. And there always has to be a worst team, a second worst team etc.

At the moment Williams are fulfilling one of the roles of bad teams. Not every team can be a success.


For instance how big is the Williams organisation compared to McClaren say?

smellslikeshoes

oceanman wrote: »

the problem with Williams is there is nobody steering the ship anymore...no patrick head, no frank Williams..

I disagree completely, Frank Williams is still there and it's been run the most level headed way of any of the midfield teams right now.
Williams have kept their head down and not risked the existence of the team for short term success while others have been spending money they don't have.

Sauber is probably the best team to compare them to, this year Sauber almost went to the wall, they weren't able to pay their drivers or their suppliers and if it wasn't for a big Russian rescue Sauber might not be on the grid for tomorrow. As part of the rescue they have been forced to take on a guy that most people agree hasn't proven himself as worthy of F1 seat yet and could potentially be an absolute lemon.

Even the much more successful Lotus have been struggling financially this year, they are still behind on their payments to Räikkönen.

So please tell me again how there is nobody is steering the ship at Williams.

losthorizon

Although they mentioned in practice that it would be a dry race by 3.00pm Korean time just checked the weather forecast for the region and its changed again to 58% rain for the whole afternoon.

smellslikeshoes

smellslikeshoes wrote: »

I disagree completely, Frank Williams is still there and it's been run the most level headed way of any of the midfield teams right now.

It's being run as a business, not a sports team.

Williams have kept their head down and not risked the existence of the team for short term success while others have been spending money they don't have.

Who? They had more funding that anyone else and didn't bother using it.

Sauber is probably the best team to compare them to, this year Sauber almost went to the wall, they weren't able to pay their drivers or their suppliers and if it wasn't for a big Russian rescue Sauber might not be on the grid for tomorrow. As part of the rescue they have been forced to take on a guy that most people agree hasn't proven himself as worthy of F1 seat yet and could potentially be an absolute lemon.

Nice to see someone trying though.

Even the much more successful Lotus have been struggling financially this year, they are still behind on their payments to Räikkönen.

So please tell me again how there is nobody is steering the ship at Williams.

Lotus are a bad example, the finances are messy in a bookkeeping sense.

Williams are keeping going in the hope of customer cars. Lets say next year things don't change, do you think they can get through another 6 years like the last 6? No ****ing chance. Not in F1 proper anyway.

Jordan 199

Starting grid for the race.

Hoping for a Lewis victory

Carroller16

Hoping for a certain renault engine to have some sort of issue today!

smellslikeshoes

Deleted User wrote: »

It's being run as a business, not a sports team.

F1 teams are businesses, if they can't pay their bills they go to the wall just like any other business.

Deleted User wrote: »

Nice to see someone trying though.

It very nearly killed them, the Russian rescue could just have easily not have come off and Sauber would not be still racing today.

Deleted User wrote: »

Williams are keeping going in the hope of customer cars. Lets say next year things don't change, do you think they can get through another 6 years like the last 6? No ****ing chance. Not in F1 proper anyway.

Maybe/Maybe not, they are definitely in a better position to take advantage of better financial times than teams who are going into debt.

frostie500

God damn internet buffering! Can't watch the race at all, through ten laps I've had about one minute of viewing...nightmare!

Charlie-Bravo

not missing anything really Frostie except another solid performance from the Hulk.

smellslikeshoes

Serious sparks there, great chance for some amazing photos.

smellslikeshoes

Wonder has the tire anything to do with Rosberg's wing throwing bits of carbon fibre everywhere.

Charlie-Bravo

Very relaxed there from Webber.

Rascasse

Come back from the shop to see a jeep in the lead.

PopePalpatine

The Hulk is having an amazing race.

Crasp

Wow... Just wow...

smellslikeshoes

Yer man driving the jeep is going to have some serious explaining to do :pac:

PopePalpatine

Webber's counting down the days until the Brazilian GP.

Charlie-Bravo

Whatever about Di Resta having some bad races, I haven't seen anything promising from Sutil in months.