vaping in public

dball

Do you walk around vaping in public places that have a roof and 4 walls.
Shopping centres, cinema entrance areas, pubs, niteclubs.
Or do you ask first if its okay to vape there - i.e. ask a security person or a member of staff.
Lastly did someone here previously say its okay to vape in Dublin airport?

DirtyBollox

Shopping centres and the like i vape away, liffey valley, blanch, jervis etc
Pubs and the like if i know I'll be back to I'll ask at the bar and if they say no they say no so i go outside and vape in the smoking area.
In dublin airport its fine, they are aware of it and no one seems to mind. Myself i stay away from vaping large clouds of vapour in crowded areas but thats just courtesy from myself.

scoobydoobie

I think the only place i might refrain would be a hospital or doctors surgery, i was in malaga airport a while back, flight delayed by 5 hours, i hid the fact i was using my vape, in reality i dont think it would have been a problem, i do try to make sure im not blowing in any ones face though, im not actually smoking after all.

ComputerKing

I disagree with this and this ye should follow the same rules as somokers and 'vape' outside.

DirtyBollox

ComputerKing wrote: »

I disagree with this and this ye should follow the same rules as somokers and 'vape' outside.

why? We are not smoking and passive vaping doesnt affect anyone unless they're sucking it right out of your lungs.

dball

ComputerKing wrote: »

I disagree with this and this ye should follow the same rules as somokers and 'vape' outside.

in pubs i find myself going out to the smokers area to have a vape.
I was in a shopping ctr at the weekend and had a sneaky vape in tesco - but in the main shopping ctr i was fairly conspicuous,

i still feel like im doing something wrong -

Fratton Fred

DirtyBollox wrote: »

why? We are not smoking and passive vaping doesnt affect anyone unless they're sucking it right out of your lungs.

Neither does farting or belching!

Even as a vaper, if someone started blowing clouds of vapour in front of me in the cinema, or in a restaurant, I would get pissed off.

ComputerKing

Fratton Fred wrote: »

if someone started blowing clouds of vapour in front of me in the cinema, or in a restaurant, I would get pissed off.

I agree with this and find it very rude people walking around indoors blowing out clouds of smoke. Also what is in this fake smoke.

Fratton Fred

ComputerKing wrote: »

I agree with this and find it very rude people walking around indoors blowing out clouds of smoke. Also what is in this fake smoke.

It is vapour, not smoke. It is probably less harmful than a Guinness fart to be honest.

was.deevey

It is vapour, not smoke. It is probably less harmful than a Guinness fart to be honest.

It probably is, you wouldn't fart in someones face either though, and as it stands right now theres enough misconceptions/bad press without giving more ammunition to the anti-vape brigade.

Getting vaping accepted as a better alternative is bad enough without some people pushing the limits / tolerances of others unnecessarily.

a) Alot of people don't realize what the vapor (smoke in their mind) contains and assume its as bad as smoke and will not be swayed even with lengthly explanation.
b) Common courtesy says you don't blow unwanted clouds of anything in someone else's direction just because you know its not harmful.

As far as i'm concerned if I'm allowed to vape somewhere, its them being accommodating to my nicotine habit as opposed to being pricks if they don't. I have been asked not to vape indoors in a few place (Starbucks for example).

why? We are not smoking and passive vaping doesnt affect anyone unless they're sucking it right out of your lungs.

Where it comes to shopping centers or family resturants and the like I tend to go outside. While it may be pretty harmless I don't believe we should be setting a new trend for kids to start vaping instead of smoking and if it starts to become the normal thing to see guys and girls puffing clouds of vapor indoors at family establishments the trend is set and the next generation of nicotine addicts are upon us.

ComputerKing

Fratton Fred wrote: »

It is vapour, not smoke. It is probably less harmful than a Guinness fart to be honest.

Yes but what is in this vapour.

grindle

ComputerKing wrote: »

Yes but what is in this vapour.

Nothing much. Here's a detailed report featuring how much of that nothing much is in the exhaled vapour.

ComputerKing

grindle wrote: »

Nothing much. Here's a detailed report featuring how much of that nothing much is in the exhaled vapour.

But that report states they vapour is far less harmful not completely harmless it also appears to have been conducted by a group who have a vested interest in saying 'vaping' is harmless to those around you.

Ionised

I am an avid, some may say obsessed, vaper and used it as a replacement for smoking very successfully. For me I don't vape anywhere I wouldn't have smoked. Two reasons...the first is because I really cannot be bothered to explain what I am using and doing every single time..and second because I do not wish to upset anyone in thinking I am smoking. Call me overly polite perhaps.

I guess another reason somewhere in the back of my mind is that I feel vaping where one cannot smoke may just add fuel to the antivaping fire (apologies for poor taste analogy).

As always...only my opinion and I have no issue with those who choose to steam away in public...but just how do you put up with the stupid comments you must get ?

Cavehill Red

I vape. I don't smoke. I don't intend to be categorised with smokers be error, or treated like a leper as they are by mistake.

Therefore, I defend the right to vape in any place where it does not inconvenience others (restaurants and cinemas are obvious places where it might).

The onus is very much on premises owners to make their case for not having vaping on their premises, and making such decisions public, thereby permitting vapers to decide whether to patronise those places or not.

I'm not militant about this. I don't blow plumes in people's faces or cause rows. But if I'm asked to stop, I clarify if it is a policy of the place and if it is, I won't be back.

Ionised

Oh...and as an add on...I don't drink or have a social life so the whole pub thing is of no issue to me. I can imagine it would be for others though.

the_syco

If in a pub that I like, I ask first. Generally don't vape inside non-pub buildings. Have vaped in the cinema, do the "hold it in my mouth to allow it to dissipate" before exhaling, so there's less of a plume of vapour that may be visible to others.

Restaurants, probably wouldn't out of common courtesy, but if someone was being a prick, I may whip it out and vape away.

Ionised

the_syco wrote: »

but if someone was being a prick, I may whip it out and vape away.

That just reads so, so wrong !

grindle

ComputerKing wrote: »

But that report states they vapour is far less harmful not completely harmless it also appears to have been conducted by a group who have a vested interest in saying 'vaping' is harmless to those around you.

Who said it was completely harmless? As far as has been measured by the studies conducted either on behalf of the ecig industry or on behalf of their detractors, no dangerous levels of any toxin have been found.
The closest they've come was that French study a month ago that claimed large amounts of acrolein were found, but they'd botched the results by dry-burning the coils (which would create acrolein)! How convenient of them to forget to mention their testing methodology for a week or two, just long enough for the media and political ignoramuses to plough through with their hyperbolic won't-somebody-think-of-the-childers bullshīt.

Cavehill Red

ComputerKing wrote: »

But that report states they vapour is far less harmful not completely harmless it also appears to have been conducted by a group who have a vested interest in saying 'vaping' is harmless to those around you.

Try studies no. 6, 7 and 8 listed here: http://www.cocktailnerd.com/debunking-the-myth-of-inadequate-e-cig-research/

tommy2bad

I'll vape anywhere I used to smoke. I don't make huge clouds of vapor and in pubs I mostly go to the smoking area as that's where my mates are.

Whats the problem? It's rude? So this is about mannerisms now! I thought the smoking ban was about environmental health!

Here's the thing, the more I hear people say that the ban was to denormalise smoking the more I want to fill the place with vapor. It's about normalising vaping and denormalising smoking, not denormalising 'stuff we don't like'

ComputerKing

tommy2bad wrote: »

I'll vape anywhere I used to smoke. I don't make huge clouds of vapor and in pubs I mostly go to the smoking area as that's where my mates are.

Whats the problem? It's rude? So this is about mannerisms now! I thought the smoking ban was about environmental health!

Here's the thing, the more I hear people say that the ban was to denormalise smoking the more I want to fill the place with vapor. It's about normalising vaping and denormalising smoking, not denormalising 'stuff we don't like'

That's your problem it not about normalising 'vaping' and denormalising smoking it's about denormalising the both of them.

grindle

ComputerKing wrote: »

it's about denormalising the both of them.

Since when? The crusade against smoking is [supposed to be] about the crusade against smoking.
When did it become the crusade against all forms of clouds?

tommy2bad

ComputerKing wrote: »

That's your problem it not about normalising 'vaping' and denormalising smoking it's about denormalising the both of them.

No thats your problem. No reason to denormalise anything at all other than some experiment in social manipulation. And if they suscede with smoking what will they seek to denormalise next? Oh that's right caffeine!
http://iom.edu/Activities/Nutrition/PotentialHazardsCaffeineSupplements/2013-AUG-05.aspx

naughtysmurf

I have vaped in the following places (very discretely) no plumes of vapour and nobody noticed & I'm sure this will upset some

A&E Limerick Regional Hospital during a 7 hour wait for treatment.
The local vets waiting room
A doctors surgery waiting room
Cinema

Again, discretely I would vape while rambling around Superquinn / Dunnes while doing the shopping

In my local pub

Was out for a meal Saturday night but wouldn't around others while eating, throwback to my smoking days I suppose

Lucky enough to work for a company that has no issue with it so can vape away all day if I wish

ComputerKing

naughtysmurf wrote: »

I have vaped in the following places (very discretely) no plumes of vapour and nobody noticed & I'm sure this will upset some

A&E Limerick Regional Hospital during a 7 hour wait for treatment.
The local vets waiting room
A doctors surgery waiting room
Cinema

Again, discretely I would vape while rambling around Superquinn / Dunnes while doing the shopping

In my local pub

Was out for a meal Saturday night but wouldn't around others while eating, throwback to my smoking days I suppose

Lucky enough to work for a company that has no issue with it so can vape away all day if I wish

Here is my problem ye think it OK to just go around 'vaping' because the fumes are not as harmful as smoking where as they are still harmfull. Also the total lack of respect ye show towards others by just starting to 'vape' in places such as hospitals and shops. If yer addictions are really that bad that you can't do your shopping or watch a movie with out needing to 'vape' maybe ye should quit as you obviously can't handle your addiction.

grindle

ComputerKing wrote: »

...they are still harmfull.

Ah! You must be one of the foremost researchers on ecig vapour in the world then, because nobody else has shown it to be harmful. Cough up the evidence please.

ComputerKing wrote: »

Also the total lack of respect ye show towards others by just starting to 'vape' in places such as hospitals and shops.

Lack of respect how?

You seem like the type of person who pontificates about the evils of one relatively harmless addiction whilst propagating another.

"Ooh, but vapour looks all smokey and I'm offended..."

Go hop your cafetière off the wall then.

Cavehill Red

ComputerKing wrote: »

Here is my problem ye think it OK to just go around 'vaping' because the fumes are not as harmful as smoking where as they are still harmfull.

Prove it or shut up.

Green Hornet

ComputerKing wrote: »

Here is my problem ye think it OK to just go around 'vaping' because the fumes are not as harmful as smoking where as they are still harmfull. Also the total lack of respect ye show towards others by just starting to 'vape' in places such as hospitals and shops. If yer addictions are really that bad that you can't do your shopping or watch a movie with out needing to 'vape' maybe ye should quit as you obviously can't handle your addiction.

Hope you don't use any sprays such as deodorant, Mr Sheen etc. around the house......more harmful than PG vapour, which is used in asthma inhalers, smoke machines etc....

dePeatrick

I vape when out and about on the street, local pub has several vapers who mostly go out to the smokers area, not always, no one seems to mind at all, generally do not vape in cafés or resturants but have on occasion completely forgotten this and vaped without thinking and so far no one has objected.

I have no idea why anyone would get upset about it, there are so many other more important things to worry about in the world apart from smokers who choose not to poison themselves with cigarettes and vape instead, bit like someone objecting to electric cars because they give off some fumes compared to petrol/diesel which give off what can be measured in tons! :rolleyes:

ComputerKing

Its the fact that 'vaping' still produces harmful gases but ye want to change the rules when they shouldn't be changed.

dePeatrick

ComputerKing wrote: »

Its the fact that 'vaping' still produces harmful gases but ye want to change the rules when they shouldn't be changed.

There are so few harmful gases and such small quantities compared to smoking that vaping is being embraced by smokers like myself that have smoked for 4decades and failed to quit them.

Have you ever smoked?

artyeva

ComputerKing wrote: »

Its the fact that 'vaping' still produces harmful gases but ye want to change the rules when they shouldn't be changed.

no idea where you're getting that from but please do share.

scientists at the cutting edge of e-cig research haven't found that to be the case...

Cavehill Red

ComputerKing wrote: »

Its the fact that 'vaping' still produces harmful gases but ye want to change the rules when they shouldn't be changed.

That's not a fact. That's just some empty vapid hot air you've emitted.
Not unlike my vaping, in fact.

ComputerKing

Cavehill Red wrote: »

That's not a fact. That's just some empty vapid hot air you've emitted.
Not unlike my vaping, in fact.

Heren from one of the studies I was linked to on here. Stating the gases produced are less harmful but not harmless.

tommy2bad

ComputerKing wrote: »

Its the fact that 'vaping' still produces harmful gases but ye want to change the rules when they shouldn't be changed.

Two mistakes and one correct idea.
1 their is not enough 'harm' in the vapor to justify not vaping unless you remove air freshners, BBQ and toast from everywhere as well. Yes the vapor contains some residual stuff but so little that it wouldn't make any difference to anyone.

2 We don't want to change any rules, vaping is not banned or illegal, it's you that wants to change the rules.

1 the rules shouldn't be changed, we agree

grindle

ComputerKing wrote: »

Its the fact that 'vaping' still produces harmful gasesye want to change the rules when they shouldn't be changed.

It doesn't produce any quantifiable amount of harmful gas that can harm anyone second-hand, not unless you get trapped in a 4ft x 4ft lift with over 1000 vapers and they vape non-stop for hours.
You'll all have been crushed and suffocated due to a lack of oxygen and space by then. PHEW! Thanks be to jaysus the vapour didn't kill you

ComputerKing wrote: »

ye want to change the rules when they shouldn't be changed.

What rules do we want to change? If "they" want to introduce nonsense rules against vaping they can, but until they have rules against it there aren't any rules.

Honest to fuck, the biggest health boon worldwide since penicillin, the potential to triple the amount of lives saved compared to any possible cure for AIDS and we have these Daily Mail harpies constantly bleating with their hands over their ears.

ComputerKing wrote: »

Heren from one of the studies I was linked to on here. Stating the gases produced are less harmful but not harmless.

"by far less harmful" ≠ harmful. It means "As far as we know it is far less harmful, but we don't know how harmful it is."

Luckily for those dumb researchers you know how harmful it is! So tell us.

Or just read this, maybe learn something? If you can't be bothered readin that, I'll just leave this here...


And please note the last point is talking about the amounts vapers are exposing themselves to, not the amounts other people are exposed to.

Cavehill Red

ComputerKing wrote: »

Heren from one of the studies I was linked to on here. Stating the gases produced are less harmful but not harmless.

My breath contains trace vapour, in such tiny amounts as to be incapable of harming others.
Your breath contains large amounts of carbon dioxide, which could KILL PEOPLE in sufficient amount.
For the sake of the safety of the public, it's time laws were passed to stop you breathing, don't you agree?

meoklmrk91

I don't vape anywhere I wouldn't smoke, if I was in a pub for a quiet one I might ask but since that has never happened u do know yet. I will generally head into the smoking area on a night out cause that's where the craic is anyway.

It might be harmless, it might not but I'm not going to inflict it on unsuspecting people, it's not fair. The same way I wouldn't play my music loud enough on public transport so that other people can hear it even though I'm wearing headphones (lets not talk about it) because I am a considerate person and I don't feel the need to inflict my habits on anyone else.

csi vegas

ComputerKing wrote: »

Heren from one of the studies I was linked to on here. Stating the gases produced are less harmful but not harmless.

You were part of a study? It looks like a bit of DIY typing on Word to me

ComputerKing

csi vegas wrote: »

You were part of a study? It looks like a bit of DIY typing on Word to me

Here is a link to the study. That I typed up in word and then uploaded it to the internet for it to he then linked to me on the first page of this thread.

http://clearstream.flavourart.it/site/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/CSA_ItaEng.pdf

ComputerKing

Also about the rules being changed I should have been clearer I think that 'vaping' is the same as smoking and so they should follow the same rules. But that also they should be both banned in public places.

artyeva

ComputerKing wrote: »

Also about the rules being changed I should have been clearer I think that 'vaping' is the same as smoking and so they should follow the same rules. But that also they should be both banned in public places.

ehhhh what?

sorry now, but.... no. they're not the same. one involves burning tobacco, paper, all sorts of chemicals and the risk of cancer and heart disease. the other one involves vapourising a liquid nicotine solution devoid of that nastiness. one emits smoke, the other emits a vapour. one is a risk to bystanders, the other is not. one is likely to kill off 50% of it's users, the other does not.

how on earth do you think they're the same?

tommy2bad

ComputerKing wrote: »

Also about the rules being changed I should have been clearer I think that 'vaping' is the same as smoking and so they should follow the same rules. But that also they should be both banned in public places.

Makes no difference what you think, vapor isn't smoke. Vaping isn't smoking.
Smoking is baned in enclosed public places because of the evidence that environmental smoke from tobacco was a danger to public health. I didn't say that, it's what they actually said to justify the ban.
Unless you can provide equivalent evidence that vapor has the same health effect STFU!
From the study you linked too yourself, did you read it?

The above experiment,within the limits of the ob-
served parameters,has underlined that e-smoking
does not produce detectable amounts of toxic and car-
cinogenic substances in the air of an enclosed space.

ComputerKing

They both pose a health risk to the smoker and the people around them. Also they should both be denormalised as just because 'vaping' is somewhat healthier well will then just have generations of 'vapers' rather than smokers to deal with that is why they should both follow the same rules and be banned in public places.

dePeatrick

It is just being disingenuous referring to vaping as "smoking" you are either trolling or do not understand the difference.

So far there is almost zero take up of vaping with non-smokers, this is probably the first time that people who cannot quit nicotene any other way can consume nicotene relatively safely and if there are no new people taking up vaping, as in first time nicotene users then the tobacco companies are in big trouble. These are the people you should be keeping an eye on, not the vapers......

If tobacco companies continue to lose smokers to vaping they will and are entering the market and try and make vaping attractive to a new generation of people.

I celebrate vaping, it has removed my smokers cough, improved my stamina, skin, sense of taste and smell and I am not as likely to die from a smoke related disease....why knock it?

grindle

ComputerKing wrote: »

They both pose a health risk to the smoker and the people around them.

It's a tiny possible but improbable health risk to the vaper and not a health risk to the people around them.
Walking in public spaces and touching anything others have touched is a much bigger health risk - it's generally how we catch the flu. Influenza has been proven to kill people too, unlike your bugbear.

ComputerKing wrote: »

Also they should both be denormalised as just because 'vaping' is somewhat healthier well will then just have generations of 'vapers' rather than smokers to deal with that is why they should both follow the same rules and be banned in public places.

Deal with why? Why do they need to be dealt with? What's your problem with people doing what they want and causing less harm to you than the last statistically-risky door you opened?

ComputerKing

Because we will have the same problem in years time where 'vaping' is being taken up by new smokers and we will still have nicotine addicts. So instead we should denormalise the two of them. The only way to do this is to have them both follow the same rules and ban them in public places.

grindle

ComputerKing wrote: »

we will still have nicotine addicts.

We have caffeine addicts!

The rate of addiction to caffeine and nicotine is around 30% of the population for both.

Are you going to get pissy about caffeine despite recommending a coffee machine as a gift to some poor unsuspecting young couple?

Why didn't you try to denormalise caffeine addiction when you had the chance? You're one sick puppy, allowing people to become addicts to a relatively harmless drug.

Vaperus

Yeah we should do the same with all the Caffeine addicts as well

tommy2bad

ComputerKing wrote: »

Because we will have the same problem in years time where 'vaping' is being taken up by new smokers and we will still have nicotine addicts. So instead we should denormalise the two of them. The only way to do this is to have them both follow the same rules and ban them in public places.

You see this is where your going wrong. Nicotine addiction is not the problem, the problem is the risk of cancer, stroke and lung diseases from smoking. Nicotine addiction itself isn't a health risk, it isn't even a problem as it doesn't affect normal living.
Unless you consider a diction to caffeine a problem! Addiction to alcohol is a problem, addiction to sugar can be a problem, addiction to heroin is a problem.
But nicotine and caffeine while addictive (bout the same activeness btw) cause no health risks or behavioral problems.
I don't think we should promote either btw but as far as ecigs are concerned we should give them the advantage over smoking because of the health gains to be ahh gained by people switching to vaping.