UCD and Trinity: no smoking on campus proposal

anniehoo

Heard this on the news this morning and am actually quite shocked tbh. I'm a smoker, but have only 1 maybe 2 a day while in work and only do so on my designated breaks. To leave campus for 1 cigarette and come back would take the guts of 15-20mins for me, even more for others.

Now don't get me wrong, yes I'm a smoker but I'm not Pro Smoking. I agreed with the smoking ban, I agree that it's an awful habit and unpleasant for others, but if you are a smoker and spend 9+hours a day in work, this new proposal is just ridiculous.

What are peoples thoughts?
Link to article

wrote:

Meanwhile, at Belfield, the UCD health promotion committee has suggested that smoking should be banned on the 320-acre campus from October next year.
UCD president Dr Hugh Brady is a strong supporter of the ban, and the UCD Students Union is holding a referendum on the issue this week.

Raphael

As a non-smoker I could go either way. While I can recognise that it would hugely inconvenience people, it would also be nice to not have to go through clouds of smoke coming in and out of buildings, or be able to sit outside and eat without being in a smoking section.

What I would definitely like, though, is for people to stop smoking right under the no smoking signs outside the Arts building. Can we have a referendum on that?

eyescreamcone

A lot of major companies such as the big pharmaceutical companies are banning smoking on site.
ie. no smoking inside the fence - not just the buildings.

zl1whqvjs75cdy

Yeah the old place I worked at wouldn't allow smoking on the site. We got an hour for lunch and the smokers had to wolf down their food as it was a 10 minute walk to the gate and 10 minutes back. They'd go rain or shine, fecking madness. Anyway on the topic, no I don't think I'd support such a proposal. I'm a non smoker but this nanny state kind of proposal worries me. Maybe ban it within 30 feet of all building entrances or something.

Maldesu

I'm a former smoker so I can see the argo for those who want a smoke to have to race outside of the campus, so I don't see why they can't designate a smoking area and just be done with it. When the bad weather really sets the front of Arts will be insane. If they bring this in, people will just start piling into cars and then we'll have a debate about what is allowed in a private motor vehicle etc.

This is probably in response to the lack of interest in the No Smoking outside of Arts. I've never seen anyone get fined or even told to smoke elsewhere. Even if they bring this ban in, how are they going to police a 320 acre campus when they can't manage a small area in front of a cafe?

OneOfThem Stumbled

Vehicles are dangerous; bad for the environment and for health. Health Promotion Committee advises that all motorised vehicles be barred from campus.
(semi-joke) :pac:

anniehoo

I also wonder what the Student Bar will have to say. I can't believe they'd expect people to drink and walk 10mins off campus and back to have a smoke. Complete joke!

I have ZERO problem with designated areas away from main entrances to buildings but an outright ban just makes me furious. Nanny state is right. I know how bad smoking is for me, but it's my choice at the end of the day. My employer pretty much forcing to make it as difficult as possible for me on a 320 acre (!!!) campus is mind boggling.

eyescreamcone

anniehoo wrote: »

I also wonder what the Student Bar will have to say. I can't believe they'd expect people to drink and walk 10mins off campus and back to have a smoke. Complete joke!

I have ZERO problem with designated areas away from main entrances to buildings but an outright ban just makes me furious. Nanny state is right. I know how bad smoking is for me, but it's my choice at the end of the day. My employer pretty much forcing to make it as difficult as possible for me on a 320 acre (!!!) campus is mind boggling.

Why shouldn't an employer ban smoking on the work campus.
Smokers run out for a "quick" smoke all day. This down time costs the employer money.
Good move I'd say.
As for UCD, I'd vote to ban it on campus (but I don't have a vote).

anniehoo

eyescreamcone wrote: »

Why shouldn't an employer ban smoking on the work campus.

Comparing UCD (372 acres) to Trinity (47 acres) for a start is ridiculous. This "buddying up" of the Health Squad from 2 main Universities is completely unfair on both staff and students in UCD. If a ban came in in Trinity, they only have to stroll outside the gates, UCD is a massive sprawling campus,where for many it would literally be impossible to go off campus and back in 15minutes. The idea that "employers can do whatever they want" is a flawed argument and heading in the direction of a dictatorship to be quite honest.

wrote:

Smokers run out for a "quick" smoke all day. This down time costs the employer money.

What a massive generalisation. As I mentioned above, I smoke on my designated breaks, no more than that and pretty much everyone else I work with does also. I smoke away from the entrance and never throw butts on the ground. I'm as considerate as I can be for a smoker, surely my employer could treat me like a grown adult and respect my decision. They don't have to make it easy for me, but a respectful compromise surely could be reached.

eyescreamcone

anniehoo wrote: »

Comparing UCD (372 acres) to Trinity (47 acres) for a start is ridiculous. This "buddying up" of the Health Squad from 2 main Universities is completely unfair on both staff and students in UCD. If a ban came in in Trinity, they only have to stroll outside the gates, UCD is a massive sprawling campus,where for many it would literally be impossible to go off campus and back in 15minutes. The idea that "employers can do whatever they want" is a flawed argument and heading in the direction of a dictatorship to be quite honest.


What a massive generalisation. As I mentioned above, I smoke on my designated breaks, no more than that and pretty much everyone else I work with does also. I smoke away from the entrance and never throw butts on the ground. I'm as considerate as I can be for a smoker, surely my employer could treat me like a grown adult and respect my decision. They don't have to make it easy for me, but a respectful compromise surely could be reached.

Why don't you respect your employers decision?
You can continue to smoke, just not in the workplace (which includes all areas inside the front gate).

If it takes 10 mins to walk to the gate and 10 mins back then that's 20mins out of your lunch break.

anniehoo

eyescreamcone wrote: »

Why don't you respect your employers decision?

Because it's not reasonable or even a compromise. That's why.

wrote:

If it takes 10 mins to walk to the gate and 10 mins back then that's 20mins out of your lunch break.

My break from the office is 15minutes in the afternoon as I've already mentioned a few times, so 20 is not feasible.

eyescreamcone

anniehoo wrote: »

Because it's not reasonable or even a compromise. That's why.

BooHoo - In your opinion that is!

My break from the office is 15minutes in the afternoon as I've already mentioned a few times, so 20 is not feasible.

What's the problem?
Smoke after work so, when you leave the workplace.

Amirani

Janiyah Rapid Rodent wrote: »

I'm a non smoker but this nanny state kind of proposal worries me. Maybe ban it within 30 feet of all building entrances or something.

Can't really call it a nanny State sort of proposal when it's not the State that's proposing it...

OneOfThem Stumbled

eyescreamcone wrote: »

What's the problem?
Smoke after work so, when you leave the workplace.

They could have the same policy with caffeinated drinks! :pac:

NiallSparky wrote: »

Can't really call it a nanny State sort of proposal when it's not the State that's proposing it...

Well the Health Committee is in all likelihood paid by the state...

Raphael wrote: »

What I would definitely like, though, is for people to stop smoking right under the no smoking signs outside the Arts building. Can we have a referendum on that?

As a non-smoker I can empathise. Really there should be some shelter close to the block that would suit smokers without forcing people entering the building to go through smog.

eyescreamcone

I think it's good idea to promote smoking free areas.
I'd like to see public parks included also.

I also think that it's a good idea to let the students vote on the issue.

Ilyana 2.0

I don't see the point. The main entrances to the college will be chocka-block with people smoking and people will constantly be coming to lectures late because they've had to leg it outside for a smoke. Not all of them will just forego the cigarette.

I'm not a smoker but I have no problem with other people smoking, once they're not blowing smoke in my face. Designated smoking areas are a good idea in theory but someone will have to monitor the whole campus to make sure the rules are being observed.

It's just not practical on such a large campus.

eyescreamcone

Ilyana 2.0 wrote: »

I don't see the point. The main entrances to the college will be chocka-block with people smoking and people will constantly be coming to lectures late because they've had to leg it outside for a smoke. Not all of them will just forego the cigarette.

I'm not a smoker but I have no problem with other people smoking, once they're not blowing smoke in my face. Designated smoking areas are a good idea in theory but someone will have to monitor the whole campus to make sure the rules are being observed.

It's just not practical on such a large campus.

No problems implementing it on huge pharmaceutical sites at present

Ilyana 2.0

eyescreamcone wrote: »

No problems implementing it on huge pharmaceutical sites at present

But does UCD have the resources to do so? How would they even go about it?

OneOfThem Stumbled

eyescreamcone wrote: »

No problems implementing it on huge pharmaceutical sites at present

I know 'certain' IT companies who fire employees if they install Linux, or own their own laptops, and have no problems implementing this rule. That's hardly strong grounds for advocating the adoption of such policy.

Kiltennel

eyescreamcone wrote: »

No problems implementing it on huge pharmaceutical sites at present

Huge difference between telling an employee they can't smoke on their work premises and telling a student not to smoke on campus. I think the best solution here is to create set areas where students can smoke (plastic shelters like they have on hospital grounds). If it's completely banned it will just turn into a similar situation to what happened in secondary schools, people will find some place that is out of sight and run there for a smoke. UCD doesn't have sufficient resources to keep all students from smoking on a campus of that size.

errlloyd

Its very nanny state, if we accept that smoking outside does almost no wider social harms

(A little bit of litter, an absolutely miniscule amount of "passive smoke" and a general aesthetic unpleasantness is the best I could come up with)

then the only reason they are bringing this in is because they know better than us?

UnawareCaesar

Can't see why they can't just have smoking shelters built a reasonable distance from buildings, wooden structures so they wouldn't even be an eyesore. The lack of cigarette bins is stupid at present, over in Newstead the front of the building is covered in cigarette butts because they haven't put something on the wall for butts. I know its inconsiderate of smoker's to throw them there but it wouldn't cost UCD a lot to install one and leave the place looking a lot cleaner.

Raphael

So the referendum was passed, UCDSU is now in favour of the smoke free campus proposal. I am genuinely shocked, this could have fairly huge ramifications for the ability to make this happen.

OneOfThem Stumbled

Raphael wrote: »

I am genuinely shocked

Perhaps the 9% turnout had something to do with it... :pac:

haro124

If this does happen how can they enforce it ? There's not really a large security presence on campus and I doubt they can afford to take on more staff

eyescreamcone

haro124 wrote: »

If this does happen how can they enforce it ? There's not really a large security presence on campus and I doubt they can afford to take on more staff

How is the smoking ban enforced indoors in UCD and nationally??

Generally it's self-policed if you ask me.

Ilyana 2.0

eyescreamcone wrote: »

How is the smoking ban enforced indoors in UCD and nationally??

Generally it's self-policed if you ask me.

To be honest, there doesn't seem to be much self-policing outside the Arts building.

You wouldn't smoke in the library or at the pub, someone will spot it soon enough and tell you to stop. But there probably can't be staff monitoring all nooks and crannies of UCD's campus 24/7.

zl1whqvjs75cdy

The staff still have to ratify the UCD vote don't they?

y0ssar1an22

they should have designated smoking areas....having a campus wide ban is a bit ridiculous. kind of related...they got rid of the smoking gazebo in portlaoise hospital, with no smoking inside the gates. Now you have patients in their dressing gowns out on the side of the road smoking. Its not the most pleasant sight, plus inconvenient for patients and staff (whether patients should be smoking at all is another debate).

eyescreamcone

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

they should have designated smoking areas....having a campus wide ban is a bit ridiculous. kind of related...they got rid of the smoking gazebo in portlaoise hospital, with no smoking inside the gates. Now you have patients in their dressing gowns out on the side of the road smoking. Its not the most pleasant sight, plus inconvenient for patients and staff (whether patients should be smoking at all is another debate).

You gotta luv that pic of patients in their dressing gowns and slippers smoking outside the hospitals. One hand holding the cigarette, the other wheeling the drip.

Smoking is bad for individuals and society in general and should be pushed as far to the fringes of society as is possible.

I would be all for Minister O'Reilly's proposal to eliminate smoking by 2025. Good policy - whether it's achievable is another matter.

y0ssar1an22

eyescreamcone wrote: »

You gotta luv that pic of patients in their dressing gowns and slippers smoking outside the hospitals. One hand holding the cigarette, the other wheeling the drip.

Smoking is bad for individuals and society in general and should be pushed as far to the fringes of society as is possible.

I would be all for Minister O'Reilly's proposal to eliminate smoking by 2025. Good policy - whether it's achievable is another matter.

I dont think they'll ban cigarettes any time soon....the government must be making a fortune on them.
I wonder what % goes to treating smoking related illnesses?

eyescreamcone

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

I dont think they'll ban cigarettes any time soon....the government must be making a fortune on them.
I wonder what % goes to treating smoking related illnesses?

200%?

Maldesu

Raphael wrote: »

So the referendum was passed, UCDSU is now in favour of the smoke free campus proposal. I am genuinely shocked, this could have fairly huge ramifications for the ability to make this happen.

When did the voting happen? I didn't even notice it taking place, any advertisement or even an email about it. Was I just oblivious?

Raphael

Maldesu wrote: »

When did the voting happen? I didn't even notice it taking place, any advertisement or even an email about it. Was I just oblivious?

Tuesday and Wednesday, in the usual spots. Email went out last Thursday.

mathepac

Kiltennel wrote: »

... I think the best solution here is to create set areas where students can smoke (plastic shelters like they have on hospital grounds). ...

Have you visited OLCH Crumlin or The Coombe Hospital recently?

At OLCH the main entrance is flanked by lines of visitors smoking. This is where ambulances arrive with sick children. Visitors sit on the granite steps drinking coffee etc and smoking leaving empty coffee cups and cigarette butts strewn all over the shop.

At the Coombe visitors and patients gather at the main entrance forcing non-smoking visitors and new admissions alike to run the smoke, stench, cigarette-butt gauntlet.

Unfortunately time and again smokers have proven themselves to be amongst the most inconsiderate and selfish groups of citizens we have. Let them smoke at home and ban all smoking in public, please, Jamsie, please and I won't mention what happened in Shannon.

Maldesu

Raphael wrote: »

Tuesday and Wednesday, in the usual spots. Email went out last Thursday.

Seems I'm oblivious then. Ah well, I don't smoke so not an issue for me, but I've a few friends who'll be seriously f'ed off.

OneOfThem Stumbled

eyescreamcone wrote: »

How is the smoking ban enforced indoors in UCD and nationally??

Generally it's self-policed if you ask me.

Well it's national law, as opposed to some local rule.

Smokers outside arts block: we can be dicks in relation to the no smoking in front of the Arts Block
UCD Health Committee: We can be even bigger dicks and ban you from the campus altogether!

eyescreamcone wrote: »

200%?

Possibly the single best piece of evidence ever produced that smokers have an impact on our health budget. :pac:

Smokng is bad for you, sure. I've had relatives die from smoking related diseases. If they hadn't smoked they may well have lived longer, and consequently cost the state; but as fatal diseases caused in part by smoking tend to be... fatal... it makes your strawman appear awfully flimsy.

Not that I see really what that has to do with UCD being less liberal.

Raphael wrote: »

Tuesday and Wednesday, in the usual spots. Email went out last Thursday.

Were the SU actually serious about having turnout be in double figures they would have votes online and tied to SIS and the admin database.

reno123

Think we should clarify, The referendum was to state that UCDSU will support UCD Helath Committee's proposal and the campus is not smoke free just because of this!

cuckoo

OneOfThem Stumbled wrote: »

Smokng is bad for you, sure. I've had relatives die from smoking related diseases. If they hadn't smoked they may well have lived longer, and consequently cost the state; but as fatal diseases caused in part by smoking tend to be... fatal... it makes your strawman appear awfully flimsy.

Not that I see really what that has to do with UCD being less liberal.


Were the SU actually serious about having turnout be in double figures they would have votes online and tied to SIS and the admin database.

The chronic diseases that smokers get are very expensive to treat though, costs that would exceed those of supporting someone in a (relatively) healthy old age.

Online voting would be a good way to improve turnout for SU referendums and the like.

Maybe the proposed outright ban is the only way to get the smokers away from immediately outside the buildings? If they're tucked away like naughty school kids they'll be out of sight and it'll be a 'win' for the health promotion committee. And, there'll be no second hand smoke or smoking litter at building entrances so it'll be a win for everyone.

cloudatlas

Non-smoker, I don't see the problem in good weather I'd go and sit on the grass with my sandwich I wouldn't sit around the entrances to the blocks. The campus is such a wide open space smoking is like homeopathy in that environment. If I walked past smokers into the buildings I would be pretty quick about it so it didn't bother me, I would usually tell my smoking pals that I'd see them inside. I can just see a secret society of smokers down by the secret lake with smoke clouds puffing above the trees What we should be concerned with, which every generation of UCD student should be concerned with is the continued theft of bicycles from the campus. Get your priorities straight.

omicron

cloudatlas wrote: »

Non-smoker, I don't see the problem in good weather I'd go and sit on the grass with my sandwich I wouldn't sit around the entrances to the blocks. The campus is such a wide open space smoking is like homeopathy in that environment. If I walked past smokers into the buildings I would be pretty quick about it so it didn't bother me, I would usually tell my smoking pals that I'd see them inside. I can just see a secret society of smokers down by the secret lake with smoke clouds puffing above the trees What we should be concerned with, which every generation of UCD student should be concerned with is the continued theft of bicycles from the campus. Get your priorities straight.

Bikes are stolen because people think locks that cost about €2 in the pound shop and could be cut with a nail scissors are good enough for a €200 bike.

Although the difficulty in finding a place to lock your bike is a pain in the hole sometimes.

cloudatlas

omicron wrote: »

Bikes are stolen because people think locks that cost about €2 in the pound shop and could be cut with a nail scissors are good enough for a €200 bike.

Although the difficulty in finding a place to lock your bike is a pain in the hole sometimes.

Okay that's one point. Don't want to derail the current topic but the people who take the bikes from campus are very well organised they have transport and good cutting tools, to steal a bike from UCD you would have to come prepared, the campus is so vast. Some of the places bikes are racked provide ample cover for such nefarious individuals.