When can Regional Support Units be armed?

Voodoomelon

Hope this doesn't sound like i'm stirring things up, this is a genuine question.

A friend recently stood beside an RSU Garda in line at a garage ATM in Dundalk recently, who had his MP7 slung over his shoulder. The friend, being in the army, asked if he was on a call and he said no.

My understanding was all weapons carried by the RSU vehicles were to be locked away unless required, is this not the case?

bravestar

Voodoomelon wrote: »

Hope this doesn't sound like i'm stirring things up, this is a genuine question.

A friend recently stood beside an RSU Garda in line at a garage ATM in Dundalk recently, who had his MP7 slung over his shoulder. The friend, being in the army, asked if he was on a call and he said no.

My understanding was all weapons carried by the RSU vehicles were to be locked away unless required, is this not the case?

Why would your friend even ask if he was on a call while waiting in line at an ATM???

And as for your main question, your not going to get an answer to that. Opsec.

Markcheese

I'm not qualified to answer, but reasonably sure weapons are supposed to be in a locker in vehicle and officers are supposed to be in a different uniform when armed (so as not to be mistaken for regular unarmed Gardai) ...
But who knows the exact circumstances except the officer involved ..

Markcheese

Markcheese wrote: »

I'm not qualified to answer,

that's where your post should have stopped.

Markcheese

[Deleted User] wrote: »

that's where your post should have stopped.

Thanks ,and you're qualified to say that because.... ??

carzony

Markcheese wrote: »

Thanks ,and you're qualified to say that because.... ??

He's a member

goldie fish

There is a large increase lately in people on this site asking questions about things that are not of their concern. The OP is one of those things.

The answer, or lack thereof will have no impact on your life whatsoever.

In short, it's none of your business. Move on.

The Soldier who asked the RSU member the initial question should ask him/herself. What would be their reaction if, when on CIT, a member of the public asked him whether his weapon was loaded or not....

Leo Demidov

Seems to me that the majority of topics in the emergency services forum are nobodys business but are of interest to people. The motive behind their particular interest might be questionable in certain circumstances but if something is out of bounds, tell them so and if necessary report the post and leave the high horses at home.

WIZE

So is he allowed carry a gun when not he is not on call?

shakin

RSU’s will patrol as regular uniform Gardaí performing the normal policing functions on a daily basis throughout the Region. When an RSU is deployed to a critical incident they will change to tactical uniform and will have access to firearms. Both the tactical gear and modifications to their vehicle (including signage and lighting) when in response mode are such as to ensure that they are clearly identifiable and distinguishable from regular officers.


From the garda website, so not compromising operational security.

http://www.garda.ie/Controller.aspx?Page=9253

donvito99

Is it not in the public domain already that RSU - in some areas - patrol armed?

lighterman

Excellent post

wexfjord wrote: »

Seems to me that the majority of topics in the emergency services forum are nobodys business but are of interest to people. The motive behind their particular interest might be questionable in certain circumstances but if something is out of bounds, tell them so and if necessary report the post and leave the high horses at home.

Its the emergency services.People are going to have interest regardless of what is going on.If there is a squad parked up on the side of the road people slow down and have a look.its human nature

I thought i read somewhere that they were full time armed now or there was plans for this to happen

Zambia

Voodoomelon wrote: »

Hope this doesn't sound like i'm stirring things up, this is a genuine question.

A friend recently stood beside an RSU Garda in line at a garage ATM in Dundalk recently, who had his MP7 slung over his shoulder. The friend, being in the army, asked if he was on a call and he said no.

My understanding was all weapons carried by the RSU vehicles were to be locked away unless required, is this not the case?

Maybe just give the member the benefit of the doubt. They knew why they had the weapon out of the box.

kub

shakin wrote: »

RSU’s will patrol as regular uniform Gardaí performing the normal policing functions on a daily basis throughout the Region. When an RSU is deployed to a critical incident they will change to tactical uniform and will have access to firearms. Both the tactical gear and modifications to their vehicle (including signage and lighting) when in response mode are such as to ensure that they are clearly identifiable and distinguishable from regular officers.


From the garda website, so not compromising operational security.

http://www.garda.ie/Controller.aspx?Page=9253

There is not a day that goes by that i do not see an RSU vehicle, I have yet to see the members in those vehicles wearing the same uniform as the lads in my local regular patrol car.

carzony

kub wrote: »

There is not a day that goes by that i do not see an RSU vehicle, I have yet to see the members in those vehicles wearing the same uniform as the lads in my local regular patrol car.

I have seen them in regular uniforms plenty of times.. I always wondered what thye would be doing when theres no trouble about.. Now I know

POGAN

kub wrote: »

There is not a day that goes by that i do not see an RSU vehicle, I have yet to see the members in those vehicles wearing the same uniform as the lads in my local regular patrol car.

Commissioner said he wants to armed all the time with increase in armed crime but must units are armed all the time, there none of this changing business at the side of the road.

Voodoomelon

Interesting replies, didn't realise it had to be me business for me to be able to ask a question. I can understand some things are left unanswered in regards some emergency services, but i had no "motives" as to why I asked, I simply wanted to know.

bravestar

Voodoomelon wrote: »

Interesting replies, didn't realise it had to be me business for me to be able to ask a question. I can understand some things are left unanswered in regards some emergency services, but i had no "motives" as to why I asked, I simply wanted to know.

You are entitled to ask anything you want, just don't always expect an answer.

Turner

I think the whole idea of them being locked away until "needed" was a softy softly approach to keep the public happy about our uniform police force being armed.

Even though one third of the force is armed the firearms have always been kept out of sight by detectives using blazers, shirts, jackets and hoodys etc to cover them.

The idea of locking any firearm away and putting it out of immediate access is absolutely ridiculous and defeats the whole purpose in my opinion.

Terrontress

Turner wrote: »

I think the whole idea of them being locked away until "needed" was a softy softly approach to keep the public happy about our uniform police force being armed.

Even though one third of the force is armed the firearms have always been kept out of sight by detectives using blazers, shirts, jackets and hoodys etc to cover them.

The idea of locking any firearm away and putting it out of immediate access is absolutely ridiculous and defeats the whole purpose in my opinion.

As long as authorisation to arm can be requested and given in <10 seconds then I don't see much problem.

Obviously if a Garda thinks it's life and death, they'll use whatever is at hand, same as any individual.

Voodoomelon

Turner wrote: »

The idea of locking any firearm away and putting it out of immediate access is absolutely ridiculous and defeats the whole purpose in my opinion.

I couldn't agree more, part of the reason i asked. Every weapon should be immediately to hand with a round chambered. Good and constant training should overcome all safety concerns.

rovoagho

goldie fish wrote: »

There is a large increase lately in people on this site asking questions about things that are not of their concern.

It's not the Secret Service he's asking about, it's our public-facing police force. Our police force, that we pay for; including the guns.


"Opsec", honest to god. Buzzword masturbation.

bravestar

rovoagho wrote: »

It's not the Secret Service he's asking about, it's our public-facing police force. Our police force, that we pay for; including the guns

And..?

Zambia

rovoagho wrote: »

It's not the Secret Service he's asking about, it's our public-facing police force. Our police force, that we pay for; including the guns.


"Opsec", honest to god. Buzzword masturbation.

It's a bit like a complete stranger asking you what time you turn your alarm on a night.

Rawhead

bravestar wrote: »

Why would your friend even ask if he was on a call while waiting in line at an ATM???

And as for your main question, your not going to get an answer to that. Opsec.

Muhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah, too much Call of Duty.

bravestar

Rawhead wrote: »

Muhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah, too much Call of Duty.

Actually it's just shorter than writing that something can't be given out for operational security reasons. Welcome to the real world, where art sometimes imitates life.

Leo Demidov

I always wanted to know what OPSEC stood for but nobody would tell me.

Rawhead

bravestar wrote: »

Actually it's just shorter than writing that something can't be given out for operational security reasons. Welcome to the real world, where art sometimes imitates life.

Actually it sounds like a lad answering a question about something as simple as a policeman carrying a gun trying to make out that the poster asked for the identity of the person who shot Bin Laden.

jimmycrackcorm

goldie fish wrote: »

There is a large increase lately in people on this site asking questions about things that are not of their concern. The OP is one of those things.

The answer, or lack thereof will have no impact on your life whatsoever.

In short, it's none of your business. Move on.

The Soldier who asked the RSU member the initial question should ask him/herself. What would be their reaction if, when on CIT, a member of the public asked him whether his weapon was loaded or not....

I think it is very valid to ask why a garda is standing in line for an ATM with an mp7 over his shoulder.

It does have an impact on peoples lives - do we have to question how safe we are that guards have to arm themselves to go to an ATM?

Zambia

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

I think it is very valid to ask why a garda is standing in line for an ATM with an mp7 over his shoulder.

It does have an impact on peoples lives - do we have to question how safe we are that guards have to arm themselves to go to an ATM?

They wanted to withdraw money simple as that.

It has no impact on people's lives question it all you want.

Every day coppers here walk around buying coffee, lunch etc all armed and no one cares. Melbourne is pretty safe city.

rovoagho

That would be very relevant if we weren't talking about a completely different country and police force, and whether or not they were armed. But our police force is, ostensibly, unarmed, and the discussion isn't about that. And they're not in Melbourne. All good things IMHO. Be tricky if they were in Melbourne. Call out times'd mad.

Zambia

rovoagho wrote: »

That would be very relevant if we weren't talking about a completely different country and police force, and whether or not they were armed. But our police force is, ostensibly, unarmed, and the discussion isn't about that. And they're not in Melbourne. All good things IMHO. Be tricky if they were in Melbourne. Call out times'd mad.

There are thousands of Irish here all not caring the coppers are armed.

The discussion is about an armed response officer carrying a gun. Who realised he was out of cash. Seems silly to me it even rates a mention

WIZE

Zambia wrote: »

There are thousands of Irish here all not caring the coppers are armed.

The discussion is about an armed response officer carrying a gun. Who realised he was out of cash. Seems silly to me it even rates a mention

Do All Cops in OZ carry guns?

Edit I answered my own Question

Equipment and weaponry[edit]All officers are armed when on duty. The standard firearm is the Glock 22 pistol. Officers also carry the X-26 Taser Electronic Control Device (ECD), often described in the media as a "less-than-lethal-force" option.

Because of the weight of equipment carried on officers' belts, Western Australian uniformed officers are being progressively issued with equipment vests fitted with pockets to safely contain equipment including ammunition magazines for the service pistol, pepper spray, baton, handcuffs, radio and mobile phone. The vests are navy blue in colour, although a fluorescent yellow version is worn for some operations.

Further specialised equipment is utilised by the TRG, as detailed in that section below

In Ireland Cops are not armed unless there is a reason for them to be. So it would be very strange as in so rare to see cops in Ireland with a gun unless they are on some type of mission. Im very surprized to hear of cops in ireland carrying guns to ATM machines

source

WIZE wrote: »

Do All Cops in OZ carry guns?

Edit I answered my own Question


In Ireland Cops are not armed unless there is a reason for them to be. So it would be very strange as in so rare to see cops in Ireland with a gun unless they are on some type of mission. Im very surprized to hear of cops in ireland carrying guns to ATM machines

Not true wize, pretty much all plain clothes members are routinely armed, it's just the regular uniformed members that are routinely unarmed.

Zambia

WIZE wrote: »

Do All Cops in OZ carry guns?

Edit I answered my own Question


In Ireland Cops are not armed unless there is a reason for them to be. So it would be very strange as in so rare to see cops in Ireland with a gun unless they are on some type of mission. Im very surprized to hear of cops in ireland carrying guns to ATM machines

Here the guys who service ATM's have a private security guard minding them who is armed. Once again no one cares.

In the op case the member was just getting cash out for himself.

rovoagho

Zambia wrote: »

The discussion is about an armed response officer carrying a gun.

In Ireland. Very specifically in Ireland. This isn't a thread about arming the Irish police force. If you want to talk about that, do it elsewhere please. As to the rest of the posts, as someone has already pointed out, we don't have open carry in Ireland except in particular circumstances. Detectives with concealed pistols are again irrelevant.

I'm pretty sure queueing for dosh isn't one of those particular circumstances. Unless he was getting cash for doughnuts on the company card, he should've put it away before going on his personal business. IMHO.

WIZE

source wrote: »

Not true wize, pretty much all plain clothes members are routinely armed, it's just the regular uniformed members that are routinely unarmed.

Maybe with Guns hidden among the clothes but slung over there shoulder?

Also Zambia none of this thread can be compared to any other country.

Markcheese

Zambia wrote: »

Here the guys who service ATM's have a private security guard minding them who is armed. Once again no one cares.

In the op case the member was just getting cash out for himself.

Would you be slightly alarmed if an army officer drove his tank up on to the pavement just to use the ATM ... It's just not the done thing...
No one here in Ireland blinks to see 6 or 8 armed soldiers fan out around a bank during bank cash deliveries... Because it's expected and part of normal practice...
Uniformed Gardai with firearms isn't...

bravestar

Markcheese wrote: »

Would you be slightly alarmed if an army officer drove his tank up on to the pavement just to use the ATM ... It's just not the done thing...
No one here in Ireland blinks to see 6 or 8 armed soldiers fan out around a bank during bank cash deliveries... Because it's expected and part of normal practice...
Uniformed Gardai with firearms isn't...

Maybe you should get with the times so. The RSU have been around long enough now, armed, with a uniform on. Get over it.

Markcheese

bravestar wrote: »

Maybe you should get with the times so. The RSU have been around long enough now, armed, with a uniform on. Get over it.

Thanks for the update but don't worry I'm aware of the RSU,they've been calling into where I work to get coffee for years... Have yet to see any of them in "tactical " gear and carrying a firearm (to be fair never checked for holsters ect ) ... Anyway think they do a great job, so I think I'm over it ....

source

WIZE wrote: »

Maybe with Guns hidden among the clothes but slung over there shoulder?

Also Zambia none of this thread can be compared to any other country.

That's not what you said though, you said:

"In Ireland Cops are not armed unless there is a reason for them to be."

I was pointing out that this is incorrect, it doesn't matter whether they're carried overtly or covertly, the fact remains that there are over 3000 firearms card holders in AGS. The vast majority of whom are armed every time they are on duty.

I know that in Limerick the RSU were directed by the local Chief super to be armed at all times, something which filtered to cork and it would appear the other divisions where they're based.

goldie fish

WIZE wrote: »

Maybe with Guns hidden among the clothes but slung over there shoulder?

Also Zambia none of this thread can be compared to any other country.

If by "hidden amongst their clothes" you mean "worn in a holster which is looped through the belt on their trousers visible to anyone with sight".

And because nobody else has said it yet...

"won't somebody think of the children".

You need to ask yourself, why are you so concerned that a Garda is armed, when what you should really be concerned with is why does garda management feel the need to arm our police force?

Could it be perhaps, because they need to be armed???

TheNog

Voodoomelon wrote: »

Hope this doesn't sound like i'm stirring things up, this is a genuine question.

A friend recently stood beside an RSU Garda in line at a garage ATM in Dundalk recently, who had his MP7 slung over his shoulder. The friend, being in the army, asked if he was on a call and he said no.

My understanding was all weapons carried by the RSU vehicles were to be locked away unless required, is this not the case?

Not all the time especially with the MP7. Pistols are routinely worn full time and has been the case for a while now.

Your friend in the army should have known that question was a question that should not have been asked. If i asked him the same question when he was on a job he would have brushed it off. Whether he knew I'm a Garda or not. I wouldn't have asked it anyway.

It is unfortunate that more and more armed Gardai are visible these days but that's how it's going.

Voodoomelon

TheNog wrote: »

Your friend in the army should have known that question was a question that should not have been asked.

I'd agree, it was a d**khead know-it all question and I take what he says with a pinch of salt, but I believe he saw what he saw.

To be honest if there was two officers in the car and one needed to hop out to to an ATM, i see no reason why he thought it would make more sense to do so with his primary, whatever about a sidearm. Personally I would have left it in the car if it was my choice.

Scouser

Voodoomelon wrote: »

Personally I would have left it in the car if it was my choice.

leaving your official sidearm down, unattended, out of your sight and reach..................not a good idea

where you go, it goes. end of

Leo Demidov

Meh, off topic. ^^^

Nice to see the po po can have a civil discussion with the civilians. To be fair to OP, its not every day you see a cop fully tooled up in the Topaz, probably better advised in future to display ones awe silently though.

Voodoomelon

I'm sure many on here know more than I do in terms of operation, but I would have thought leaving it in the car with another armed officer, instead of standing facing an ATM wall with no peripheral vision whilst your weapon is hanging by your side would be a better option.

Voodoomelon

Just to add, I think it's great to see an armed presence and have no qualms about their necessity. I got an answer to my original question and thanks to all that replied.

sdanseo

Just arm them all and be done with it at this stage. Well overdue and certainly not a big deal given that only ourselves, the UK and NZ are still routinely unarmed. In fact the UK approach to firearms is appallingly bad, guns are treated like nuclear weapons in terms of their overbearing and purely moronic political correctness.

That and remove the routine wearing of high-visibility jackets on regular foot patrol - it makes Gardaí look unprofessional when not required (mainly because the standard High-Vis is so ridiculously badly designed).