IM building an extention. how do i tie into .....,

yoloc

Im building an extention for a family member and will be doing all the work myself. Have laid the foundations last year and only getting around to starting the blockwork now but hoping to get it all finished in the coming months.

While laying the block today i have run into a problem. What i was thinking of doing to tie the new blockwork into the cottage was to hammer in metal L-ties into the exciting cottage with steel nails. The steel nails are just bouncing of the wall! I was half expecting this anyway knowing that the cottage was built in stone/cement (or lime) Next i got my heavy duty jack hammer/drill out and tried to drill a hole for some raw plugs so i could screw them on. Still no luck. I managed to get a half inch in with the drill and that took me about an hour.

What im wanting to know is, can i just build up flush to the cottages and put a plastering bead thats used for an expansion joint in terraced houses. I have worked on tieing extentions onto houses before but have never came across this problem. I was even thinking of hiring a hilti gun out and trying to shoot hilti nails into it but i think they will just bend seeing as its hard rock ill be firing into.


All suggestions welcome

wirehairmax

yoloc wrote: »

Im building an extention for a family member and will be doing all the work myself. Have laid the foundations last year and only getting around to starting the blockwork now but hoping to get it all finished in the coming months.

While laying the block today i have run into a problem. What i was thinking of doing to tie the new blockwork into the cottage was to hammer in metal L-ties into the exciting cottage with steel nails. The steel nails are just bouncing of the wall! I was half expecting this anyway knowing that the cottage was built in stone/cement (or lime) Next i got my heavy duty jack hammer/drill out and tried to drill a hole for some raw plugs so i could screw them on. Still no luck. I managed to get a half inch in with the drill and that took me about an hour.

What im wanting to know is, can i just build up flush to the cottages and put a plastering bead thats used for an expansion joint in terraced houses. I have worked on tieing extentions onto houses before but have never came across this problem. I was even thinking of hiring a hilti gun out and trying to shoot hilti nails into it but i think they will just bend seeing as its hard rock ill be firing into.


All suggestions welcome

Are you taking the piss? You're building an extension for someone else and you don't know how to tie in blockwork?
I'm not going to say too much more but this kind of crap is what I'm coming up against and pricing against every week. You shouldnt be allowed near a site. Hopefully the amended building regs will go some way towards doing away with chancers like you. Can't wait to hear how you plan to do the roof etc

yoloc

wirehairmax wrote: »

Are you taking the piss? You're building an extension for someone else and you don't know how to tie in blockwork?
I'm not going to say too much more but this kind of crap is what I'm coming up against and pricing against every week. You shouldnt be allowed near a site. Hopefully the amended building regs will go some way towards doing away with chancers like you. Can't wait to hear how you plan to do the roof etc

I have worked in this game for 25 years, its just ive never tied an extention into an old cottage. Do you honestly think im going to turn down all this work over a minor stumbling block when i know im skilled for this kind of work.I will go and find out how its done before i continue working on. This extention will still be standing long without any problems long after you and i leave this place. As for you, dont be telling me that youve never came across a stumbling block on jobs and went and asked someone for information so you can finish it. If this building was a modern building, id have took some block out and tied it in accordingly. I could go ahead and get the con saw out and start cutting the shape of blocks out, and tie the new blocks in, however i was hoping there was another easy option around this.

For your information, i was working on jobs in the uk in the early 90s for the local housing associaton and the engineer had us tie extentions in with metal strips screwed into the existing house then some sort of L tie slotted into it. I was hoping i could have done this with this job.

So mr know it all, seeing as you know what your doing, id love to hear how you'd do it.

Gumbo

Toothing it in is usually the best option, but have you asked an engineer for advice? Maybe he could advise on a newer easier method, and maybe he could also thrown an eye on the foundations which you laid a year ago, just to make sure.

yoloc

kceire wrote: »

Too thing it in is usually the best option, but have you asked an engineer for advice? Maybe he could advise on a newer easier method, and maybe he could also thrown an eye on the foundations which you laid a year ago, just to make sure.

Just to be sure lol Fcuk me, even the founds are in question now lol. Ive probably laid over 100 foundations in my years and never once had a problem.


This forum is great wee forum, come asking for advice then get ripped to pieces lol

Gumbo

yoloc wrote: »

Just to be sure lol Fcuk me, even the founds are in question now lol. Ive probably laid over 100 foundations in my years and never once had a problem.


This forum is great wee forum, come asking for advice then get ripped to pieces lol

You laid foundations a year ago. Now you want to build on them. You mentioned in your first post "all suggestions welcome"

Well obviously you only want to hear what you want to hear, so I'm out. Best advice is to talk to a professional, not some stranger on the inter web thing...

yoloc

kceire wrote: »

You laid foundations a year ago. Now you want to build on them. You mentioned in your first post "all suggestions welcome"

Well obviously you only want to hear what you want to hear, so I'm out. Best advice is to talk to a professional, not some stranger on the inter web thing...

The foundations are ok, no frost damage seeing as they where left to the elements all year. Sure if they cracked, sure i could have superglued them back together lol. ( Thats a joke incase you uptight boys think im serious lol)

4Sticks

yoloc wrote: »

Just to be sure lol Fcuk me, even the founds are in question now lol. Ive probably laid over 100 foundations in my years and never once had a problem.


This forum is great wee forum, come asking for advice then get ripped to pieces lol

Oh no you are great builder

Your family member does not deserve you.

wirehairmax

Another London legend! Mcalpines fusillers!!!! In the "game" for 25 years! I've met a lot of these guys over the past number of years and alarm bells always go off when I hear this sort of talk. "Know it alls" that can't read a tape and couldn't be trusted with Lego. They can never be told how to do anything and seem to think that pushing a wheelbarrow across a site in London qualified them as some sort of master builder. The only thing a lot of them were qualified to be was an extra on "only fools and horses"

martinn123

yoloc wrote: »

Just to be sure lol Fcuk me, even the founds are in question now lol. Ive probably laid over 100 foundations in my years and never once had a problem.


This forum is great wee forum, come asking for advice then get ripped to pieces lol

We'll I wonder what you were thinking in posting in this Forum
Maybe that you had a Construction issue, and as it's a Construction Forum, that you might get some pointers.
Sure we have had Self Build threads that lasted a year or more, and all sorts of issues were raised, and sorted.
But no, your previous posts were examined, to get your pedigree, you see, and then, as you say, you get ripped to pieces.
This Forum is in need of some Moderation, which is sadly missing for the past few weeks.


OK back to these new regs,

4Sticks

martinn123 wrote: »

OK back to these new regs,

Which the OP wants to find loopholes in .

And compete then against you.

martinn123

4Sticks wrote: »

Which the OP wants to find loopholes in .

And compete then against you.

We'll so far, from his posts, he is building an extension for a relative, and perhaps a new house for himself.
"Loopholes" have not been mentioned ( but I have not trawled through his back catalogue of Posts)
Sure we have all got competition, part of life

4Sticks

Just click on the link at post no 8 of this thread. The great thing about the interweb is - help / don't help who you like.

4Sticks

martinn123 wrote: »

But no, your previous posts were examined

This can be done anytime by anyone here to anyone here and so I have to say it amuses me to see you now post

martinn123 wrote: »

This Forum is in need of some Moderation, which is sadly missing for the past few weeks.

martinn123

4Sticks wrote: »

This can be done anytime by anyone here to anyone here and so I have to say it amuses me to see you now post

Guess you don't miss em, till there gone

martinn123

4Sticks wrote: »

Just click on the link at post no 8 of this thread. The great thing about the interweb is - help / don't help who you like.

Yes you have learned a lot, since you joined Boards in Sept.
If you don't want to post a helpful reply, move on, maybe to AH

4Sticks

Thanks. Mine's a g+t

Micky Dolenz

Mod

Enough of the bickering please. Lets get back on topic.

yoloc

Even after all the bickering, no one has suggested anything lol. I think some just needed to let of a bit of steam and picked this thead for it. Would be interested to hear how other builders would tie in this extention to the cottage.

Gumbo

yoloc wrote: »

Even after all the bickering, no one has suggested anything lol. I think some just needed to let of a bit of steam and picked this thead for it. Would be interested to hear how other builders would tie in this extention to the cottage.

Not many builders will give advice to a stranger on the internet about an issue they have never seen.

Have you contacted masonry fixings for technical advice.

PaulieBoy

You could look at attaching the starter bars with epoxy resin.

4Sticks

You could hire a structural engineer to design inspect and certify the works for your relative.

Safehands

PaulieBoy wrote: »

You could look at attaching the starter bars with epoxy resin.

Good suggestion. Try coring a couple of holes, min 75mm deep, and insert some bars using an epoxy rather than the more popular polyester resin, which doesn't stick very well to cored holes.

BryanF

Safehands wrote: »

Good suggestion. Try coring a couple of holes, min 75mm deep, and insert some bars using an epoxy rather than the more popular polyester resin, which doesn't stick very well to cored holes.

ive used this method when fixing a new extension foundations to existing concrete foundations but isn't the issue here that the OP is having difficulty drilling into an old stone wall ?

Safehands

BryanF wrote: »

ive used this method when fixing a new extension foundations to existing concrete foundations but isn't the issue here that the OP is having difficulty drilling into an old stone wall ?

Yes but a core drill will tackle it a lot better than a percussive drill.

yoloc

Will i tie it in every 2nd course or every course and will i just bed in into the motar. Will i get away with using 12.5 mm stater bars, same thickness as the motar bed.

Safehands

yoloc wrote: »

Will i tie it in every 2nd course or every course and will i just bed in into the motar. Will i get away with using 12.5 mm stater bars, same thickness as the motar bed.

I don't think you need to tie every course, but I would recommend Stainless or galvanised bars, probably about 10mm dia.

BryanF

yoloc wrote: »

Will i tie it in every 2nd course or every course and will i just bed in into the motar. Will i get away with using 12.5 mm stater bars, same thickness as the motar bed.

Safehands wrote: »

I don't think you need to tie every course, but I would recommend Stainless or galvanised bars, probably about 10mm dia.

i would recommend you get a structural engineer

Safehands

BryanF wrote: »

i would recommend you get a structural engineer

Always a good idea.

scwazrh

Even if you manage to tie into the stone work , are you not concerned about settlement / movement control between the two different masonry substrates?

And to be fair , Ive never come across anything that I couldn't drill with the right drill bit

yoloc

scwazrh wrote: »

Even if you manage to tie into the stone work , are you not concerned about settlement / movement control between the two different masonry substrates?

And to be fair , Ive never come across anything that I couldn't drill with the right drill bit

What would you suggest doing for movement control. This cottage is sitting on good solid groundso cant see much problems with movement. I know every building moves but the better the ground, isnt it less movement.

archtech

yoloc wrote: »

What would you suggest doing for movement control. This cottage is sitting on good solid groundso cant see much problems with movement. I know every building moves but the better the ground, isnt it less movement.

Talk to a structural engineer he'll be able to advise you all you want to know.

Safehands

yoloc wrote: »

What would you suggest doing for movement control. This cottage is sitting on good solid groundso cant see much problems with movement. I know every building moves but the better the ground, isnt it less movement.

Once you have sound foundations and the building is well tied I would not worry too much. You could use a lime based render rather than sand / cement across the joint. That allows for small movement

yoloc

archtech wrote: »

Talk to a structural engineer he'll be able to advise you all you want to know.

Are ya nuts! sure them people just spout to much technical ****e for my liking, that and the fact they charge to much.

Mod: Banned

yoloc

Safehands wrote: »

Once you have sound foundations and the building is well tied I would not worry too much. You could use a lime based render rather than sand / cement across the joint. That allows for small movement

Thanks

martinn123

yoloc wrote: »

What would you suggest doing for movement control. This cottage is sitting on good solid groundso cant see much problems with movement. I know every building moves but the better the ground, isnt it less movement.

archtech wrote:

Talk to a structural engineer he'll be able to advise you all you want to know.

yoloc wrote:

Are ya nuts! sure them people just spout to much technical ****e for my liking, that and the fact they charge to much.

And here was I thinking you were looking for. Some technical ****e information.

yoloc

martinn123 wrote: »

And here was I thinking you were looking for. Some technical ****e information.

Let me put things into perspective for you here. Were talking about a 3 roomed 1950s cottage with a hipped roof. Theres an extention going on the back of it with another 3 rooms. Do you think im going to tell these people to go and waste money on someone to tell them what to do when i can get the answer on the internet. We are talking about a 3 roomed extention, not a new house or even a 2 story extention. Worst case senario, a few cracks appear where the extention meets the old cottage but in saying that, there wont be any cracks because now i know what needs done

martinn123

yoloc wrote:

Do you think im going to tell these people to go and waste money on someone to tell them what to do when i can get the answer on the internet.

'Nuff said, best of luck.

yoloc

martinn123 wrote: »

'Nuff said, best of luck.

Would you agree with me that i asked a question on the internet, ok, you will

Right, would you agree with me that i got a valid answer to that question on the internet. Yes again you will agree.


Nuff said

martinn123

yoloc wrote: »

Would you agree with me that i asked a question on the internet, ok, you will

Right, would you agree with me that i got a valid answer to that question on the internet. Yes again you will agree.


Nuff said

Yep, the Internet is the place to go OK, for anonymous advice, on situations, the adviser has not seen.
And when you post some clarifications late in the thread, that really helps.
So as I said, best of luck, especially to your customer


No offence @safehands.

Gumbo

yoloc wrote: »

Would you agree with me that i asked a question on the internet, ok, you will

Right, would you agree with me that i got a valid answer to that question on the internet. Yes again you will agree.


Nuff said

Excellent, when the wall collapse's, the owners came come on here and claim through the Boards.ie structural Insurance bond :pac:

blockie

just make sure you run the consaw up inside the inner face of the outer leaf on existing wall in the full 4 inches and bed in a 6 inch damp 10 mm bars drilled in every second course will be fine as once they are built in the only issue is side to side movement and this cant occur when built in also put in youre expansion joint first and build tight against it ,it will be fine we have hundereths of these done its not an issue ,best of luck

wirehairmax

We shouldnt entertain this chancer any more. Whoevers modding this thread is asleep at the wheel. This joker is looking for free structural advice and has the manners of a pig. God help whoever owns the property he's working on. The guys an idiot know-it-all who cant take the advice being given except what he wants to hear to suit himself.
Can a stop be put to this nonsense please?

Penn

wirehairmax wrote: »

Whoevers modding this thread is asleep at the wheel.

yoloc wrote: »

Are ya nuts! sure them people just spout to much technical ****e for my liking, that and the fact they charge to much.

Mod: Banned

I banned him last night.

Please report posts in future rather than complaining about them not being actioned on-thread.

Fracking Cylon

wirehairmax wrote: »

We shouldnt entertain this chancer any more. Whoevers modding this thread is asleep at the wheel. This joker is looking for free structural advice and has the manners of a pig. God help whoever owns the property he's working on. The guys an idiot know-it-all who cant take the advice being given except what he wants to hear to suit himself.
Can a stop be put to this nonsense please?

Agreed, if I told him I was a qualified engineer and swore that putting old newspaper under all the walls, would he try that too. I pity the client who hired him with that attitude. This forum is great for getting ideas and advice on what to look out for etc, but as for using this as a substitute for an actual engineer is crazy.

wirehairmax

Penn wrote: »

I banned him last night.

Please report posts in future rather than complaining about them not being actioned on-thread.

Fair enough

Safehands

yoloc wrote: »

Are ya nuts! sure them people just spout to much technical ****e for my liking, that and the fact they charge to much.

This is a technical issue. It is ALWAYS a good idea to consult a structural engineer when building an extension, even if it is only a brief meeting to make sure you are not missing some small item, or to verify what you learned on the net. It does not have to cost a lot, but mistakes can be very costly, so be careful.

blockie

i agree,totally correct

gman2k

I've used ancon products before for tie in works
http://www.ancon.co.uk/products/wall-ties-and-restraint-fixings/wall-starter-systems
With the junction between new and old as a longitudinal expansion joint.
Structural engineers advice always needed however....

cerastes

Safehands wrote: »

This is a technical issue. It is ALWAYS a good idea to consult a structural engineer when building an extension, even if it is only a brief meeting to make sure you are not missing some small item, or to verify what you learned on the net. It does not have to cost a lot, but mistakes can be very costly, so be careful.

I keep hearing this description being used, is structural engineer, an actual qualification, I thought a draughtsman would be able to do up the drawings and would specify the kind of strengthening if it was needed, architect seems a bit too much for just an attic conversion.
Someone I know has told me they are considering getting an attic conversion done, I've recommended they get it done right or it might cost more to put right than it cost to do, insurance might not be valid etc, but I'm not sure who to direct them to about getting that kind of professional advice.
They got a few builders for quotes, not sure where, but they never returned. I've heard there are specialist companies that do attic conversions, but again, not sure what makes them specialist? some could be good, others might not.

DOCARCH

cerastes wrote: »

I keep hearing this description being used, is structural engineer, an actual qualification....

Yes.