UCC study on emigration finds evidence of 'brain drain'

gaius c

A year-long study of Irish emigration has found clear evidence that a disproportionate number of highly-educated young people are leaving the country, with rural Ireland affected most.

62% of recent emigrants have a tertiary qualification of three years or more.

The study was conducted by researchers from UCC's Institute for Social Science in the 21st Century and the college's Department of Geography.

There is more...

And the study itself...

Scortho

gaius c wrote: »

There is more...

And the study itself...

Have students not always gone abroad for a few years after studying.
Even at the height of the boom I'd have known a good few who'd have left to travel the world.
I know out of my pharmacy class most of us plan to go abroad for a while, even though we've high chances of employment.

srsly78

Yeah it's meaningless because it only measures the outflow. People no longer emigrate for life, it's no big deal to hop on a Ryanair flight and work in London. Personally I have "emigrated" several times, but for some reason came back. Yes I am dumb.

edit: I worked for over a year in Germany but ragequit because the tax was so high

gaius c

Scortho wrote: »

Have students not always gone abroad for a few years after studying.
Even at the height of the boom I'd have known a good few who'd have left to travel the world.
I know out of my pharmacy class most of us plan to go abroad for a while, even though we've high chances of employment.

Guy involved with the study was on the radio this morning (Today FM) and emphasised that this study should not be used to support the Michael Noonan "they are on holidays" theory. They are leaving paid employment here because it's low pay, with low career prospects and a very high cost of living. Germany in particular is taking loads of qualified people that we've trained at great expense but have no inclination to use productively.

Sleepy

He was on Newstalk too. Made the point that many of those emigrating are leaving relatively good jobs and that the high levels of Personal Taxation and lack of opportunity for career progression beyond a certain point would seem to be a factor.

It's far from surprising. TBH, if my family situation didn't prevent it, I'd have moved to London, Sydney, New Hampshire or British Columbia back in 2008 and would be earning well over twice my current salary.

tayto lover

They could be leaving because they have no faith in our politicians ability to fix things. After all it was politicians who caused it along with their elite friends in Banks etc.

keeponhurling

Not really surprising.
It's people who are of a working age, and interested in better opportunities for themselves whio emmigrate. These people are quite likely to be well educated.

People who are on pensions or long-term unemployed will naturally stay in Ireland, as our social welfare system is "world-class"

I know it varies by country, but many countries can currently offer better job prospects than Ireland, whereas I can't think of a single country who can match us for social welfare benefits.

sarumite

I think one of the issues won't be so much that people are leaving. I know several friends who went abroad for a year after college, however most (if not all) came back, got a job and settled down. It is very difficult to get the come back to Ireland at the moment.

Radiosonde

sarumite wrote: »

I think one of the issues won't be so much that people are leaving. I know several friends who went abroad for a year after college, however most (if not all) came back, got a job and settled down. It is very difficult to get the come back to Ireland at the moment.

You're missing a couple of key points: emigration levels are 4 times higher than seven years ago, and half leaving had full-time employment here. On the basis of this study, the "it's normal for young people to go abroad" and "they'll come back when they can get full time jobs here" lines don't apply.

Rightwing

It's pretty easy to see why people would go.

We are hit with massive taxes to keep the welfare/ps/the bertie ahern multiple pensions roadshow on the road.

It's bad news for government, but they'll bring in cheaper workers from less well off countries.

Rented Mule

tayto lover wrote: »

They could be leaving because they have no faith in our politicians ability to fix things. After all it was politicians who caused it along with their elite friends in Banks etc.

No personal responsibility for the masses who ran to take out these loans in the first place ?

Idbatterim

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/highly-qualified-graduates-now-make-up-majority-of-emigrants-29614325.html

a lot of good comments here too...

sarumite

Radiosonde wrote: »

You're missing a couple of key points: emigration levels are 4 times higher than seven years ago, and half leaving had full-time employment here. On the basis of this study, the "it's normal for young people to go abroad" and "they'll come back when they can get full time jobs here" lines don't apply.

I am kind of supporting that theory as well. The point I was making was even if its normal for some people to leave, the situation now is that they can't come back.

Rightwing

Dreadful article from the rag. We don't have the same problems as Greece/Spain, there are no job opportunities there. They may not speak English so they are unfortunately very limited to where they can go, i.e. Argentina doesn't strike me as a prosperous destination.

cosbloodymick

Rented Mule wrote: »

No personal responsibility for the masses who ran to take out these loans in the first place ?

Masses have to pay their loans back, banks get bailed out.

Cody Pomeray

I think John Drennan put it well on newstalk earlier, Ireland is not an environment where many young people can build a life.

And by that, "a life" means where there is a career and a lifestyle payoff for working hard. It's that simple.

And I'm sick of hearing people saying "ah shur Berlin is only a few hours away" or "Canada is closer to home that Kerry on the bus". These people are deliberately ignoring that it IS difficult to maintain relationships to your community when you live abroad, and it IS a serious drain on communities when young people live abroad.

Just look at the recent improvements in London GAA relative to home, that will give you an impression of what is happening to rural communities because this Government cannot help young people build their own lives here.

But at least we have AIB. We can keep our banks, but we can't keep our most educated young people. Idiots.

Rightwing

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

I think John Drennan put it well on newstalk earlier, Ireland is not an environment where many young people can build a life.

And by that, "a life" means where there is a career and a lifestyle payoff for working hard. It's that simple.

And I'm sick of hearing people saying "ah shur Berlin is only a few hours away" or "Canada is closer to home that Kerry on the bus". These people are deliberately ignoring that it IS difficult to maintain relationships to your community when you live abroad, and it IS a serious drain on communities when young people live abroad.

Just look at the recent improvements in London GAA relative to home, that will give you an impression of what is happening to rural communities because this Government cannot help young people build their own lives here.

But at least we have AIB. We can keep our banks, but we can't keep our most educated young people. Idiots.[/QUOTE]

Regardless of banks, people would go. There's better elsewhere, and they know it.

Radiosonde

Rightwing wrote: »

Regardless of banks, people would go. There's better elsewhere, and they know it.

Then why are they going in increasing numbers? Coincidence?

Rightwing

Radiosonde wrote: »

Then why are they going in increasing numbers? Coincidence?

Absolutely.

Cody Pomeray

Rightwing wrote: »

Regardless of banks, people would go. There's better elsewhere, and they know it.

You're contradicting yourself. Why is there such a disproportionately better future elsewhere? Anything to do with our financial crisis?

Rightwing

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

You're contradicting yourself. Why is there such a disproportionately better future elsewhere? Anything to do with our financial crisis?

Of course it has to do with the financial crisis, but too many spout the banks line. 'I lost my job because of the banks' type of insanity.

We are borrowing massive amounts of money just to run the country, our former financial regulator Neary got a golden handshake of €630,000 - - he received a special €202,000 pay-off and a €428,000 retirement lump sum. That's the waste and mentality that is causing the youth to go.
http://www.finfacts.ie/irishfinancenews/article_1016759.shtml
The banks are a part of it, but the smaller part. Greece is in meltdown, and it's banks didn't go bananas. We need to ask why.

Frank Lee Midere

Sleepy wrote: »

He was on Newstalk too. Made the point that many of those emigrating are leaving relatively good jobs and that the high levels of Personal Taxation and lack of opportunity for career progression beyond a certain point would seem to be a factor.

It's far from surprising. TBH, if my family situation didn't prevent it, I'd have moved to London, Sydney, New Hampshire or British Columbia back in 2008 and would be earning well over twice my current salary.

Really. In London?

Frank Lee Midere

We are having a brain drain - although plenty of (often underused) brains are emigrating here too. But we had that in the 80's and early nineties and people came back.

spank_inferno

Anecdotaly I know a lot of job-holders emigrate.

However I was very surprised by the disproportionate amount of 3rd level graduates emigrating.

Rightwing

spank_inferno wrote: »

Anecdotaly I know a lot of job-holders emigrate.

However I was very surprised by the disproportionate amount of 3rd level graduates emigrating.

Many on the welfare won't emigrate, they won't beat the benefits and overall package anywhere else

spank_inferno

Rightwing wrote: »

Many on the welfare won't emigrate, they won't beat the benefits and overall package anywhere else

Well... They wouldnt be entitled to
anything elsewhere!

Mabey more graduates were smart enough not to be anchored by a mortgage!

starlit

Its interesting I never expected as many who have jobs emigrate as much as grads or young adults emigrate. The number is growing day by day.

Not surprised that certain number stay if unemployed or on benefits but they can only last so long. The travel pass will only last so long or be limited to certain people or age groups. Its means tested but be further means tested. There is a reason to have passed your test such as older people or other certain people on social welfare have licence as back up you not dependent on public transport and lifts from others all the time can be a nuisance.

Though certain number come back again some settle others return or settle elsewhere. I know so many who have degrees, postgrads and masters that have had to leave their home county and or leave Ireland to go abroad or to UK.

robp

Rightwing wrote: »

Dreadful article from the rag. We don't have the same problems as Greece/Spain, there are no job opportunities there. They may not speak English so they are unfortunately very limited to where they can go, i.e. Argentina doesn't strike me as a prosperous destination.

Hence emigration should be higher from these areas. Plenty of Spanish, Portuguese and Greek speak English and indeed many Spanish and Portuguese speaking areas in South America are seeing huge growth. Brazil has lower unemployment then Australia. In the media you hear about people migrating in Spain but internal migration to rural areas.

hfallada

Why do is rural emigration so shocking? Who wants to live in the middle of no where with low paid jobs and **** services. When you can have an amazing life in London and probably be their with half your college class.

I know a lot of people who have "emigrated". In other words left a decent job here to work in Austrilia for a year to return. Even in the 1980s when a lot of Irish emigrated. Most of them returned home to Ireland

maninasia

Radiosonde wrote: »

You're missing a couple of key points: emigration levels are 4 times higher than seven years ago, and half leaving had full-time employment here. On the basis of this study, the "it's normal for young people to go abroad" and "they'll come back when they can get full time jobs here" lines don't apply.

What's also happening is in couples, one might lose their job and find it hard to find employment again, so then the two of them may then emigrate together.

maninasia

hfallada wrote: »

Why do is rural emigration so shocking? Who wants to live in the middle of no where with low paid jobs and **** services. When you can have an amazing life in London and probably be their with half your college class.

I know a lot of people who have "emigrated". In other words left a decent job here to work in Austrilia for a year to return. Even in the 1980s when a lot of Irish emigrated. Most of them returned home to Ireland

I wonder if 'most' is correct.
How are people going to come back anytime soon after emigrating? (speaking as an emigrant myself..there's piddling all opportunities for me back in Ireland). The longer I stay away, the harder it is to get back.

maninasia

srsly78 wrote: »

Yeah it's meaningless because it only measures the outflow. People no longer emigrate for life, it's no big deal to hop on a Ryanair flight and work in London. Personally I have "emigrated" several times, but for some reason came back. Yes I am dumb.

edit: I worked for over a year in Germany but ragequit because the tax was so high

Rubbish, people do still emigrate for life, I know many of them. They might have some connection with Ireland, but they don't settle back in Ireland.

Rightwing

maninasia wrote: »

Rubbish, people do still emigrate for life, I know many of them. They might have some connection with Ireland, but they don't settle back in Ireland.

Some do, some don't. It's not exactly rocket science we're dealing with here.

maninasia

What's rocket science got to do with it?

There were claims that people don't emigrate permanently. That's wrong.

Also, there are people going abroad on short-term visas, but that doesn't mean they will return to work in Ireland. Instead, many probably head off to another country to look for work again.

SupaNova2

maninasia wrote: »

Also, there are people going abroad on short-term visas, but that doesn't mean they will return to work in Ireland. Instead, many probably head off to another country to look for work again.

A few years in Oz, then NZ, then Canada is becoming a trail well traveled.

Radiosonde

robp wrote: »

Hence emigration should be higher from these areas. Plenty of Spanish, Portuguese and Greek speak English and indeed many Spanish and Portuguese speaking areas in South America are seeing huge growth. Brazil has lower unemployment then Australia. In the media you hear about people migrating in Spain but internal migration to rural areas.

Tons of Spanish have headed to Brazil. Learning Portuguese when you've got Spanish isn't anywhere near as challenging as e.g. English to German.

Frank Lee Midere

maninasia wrote: »

Rubbish, people do still emigrate for life, I know many of them. They might have some connection with Ireland, but they don't settle back in Ireland.

These people might have emigrated in boom times anyway.

maninasia

No they wouldn't if you actually check the statistics, emigration is up something like 400%.

Frank Lee Midere

maninasia wrote: »

No they wouldn't if you actually check the statistics, emigration is up something like 400%.

I'm talking about the "for life" people. Nobody would argue against somebody who wanted to leave Ireland for good leaving, boom-time or recession.

Emigration can only be a bad thing if the people who have to leave would prefer to stay but that's the very demographic likely to come back.

maninasia

You don't really have a clue. People don't set out to emigrate 'for life'. It's something just happens to them, they settle down overseas and that's it.

Cookie_Monster

Of course the study found evidence of brain drain, anyone on the street can see it going on.
I don't see why anyone would be surprised by that.

gaius c

maninasia wrote: »

What's also happening is in couples, one might lose their job and find it hard to find employment again, so then the two of them may then emigrate together.

The only reason for them to stay would be if one of the couple had a safe permanent job (my position until very recently). If the partner who still has a job is merely contract with no real job security, there's no reason whatsoever for them to stick it out.

The Corinthian

First of all, there's a lot of BS being quoted here on how the majority of emigrants returning after a year or so. Where this figure is arrived at, I've no idea and I have a sneaky suspicion that student Summer jobs and 1-year working trips are being included in this calculation. This is not emigration; it's a long, working, holiday.

However it's hardly rocket science that better qualified people are far more likely to emigrate. To begin with they can more easily get visas in other countries, and unless the country in question is in desperate need of unskilled labour, jobs are much easier for them to find.

Plus those better qualified people are the one's who carry the burden of taxes in Ireland (it was the same story back in the 1980's), there's no shortage of countries, even in Europe, where they will get a much better deal.

As for returning, I get the impression that some of the people here responding are quite young. To begin with, it's easy enough to pick up and move when you're young and single. If in a stable relationship, it already starts getting a bit more complicated, because it's not just your job and career that's a factor, but your partner's. Add marriage and kids, especially once they reached school age, and the barriers to moving become almost prohibitive.

Of course, you'll get the retirees who eventually come back, but even then not always. I've known a good few who ended up raising their kids in the new country and those kids integrated, married and started families themselves. As a result, many a plan to return to the old sod for one's old age has been scuppered by the greater desire to remain close to one's grandchildren.

And this is all before you ask why would you come back? After all, the Celtic Tiger is the only time in our history where emigrants did come back - was it all down to Ryanair making it cheaper to do? No, it's because it made economic sense to do so; things were good in Ireland - good enough to tempt people back.

If you're sitting in a country where you're financially far better off, career-wise have far more opportunities and your standard of living makes Ireland look like Weiß Afrika, why on Earth would you want to return? For the Guinness? Seriously.

I'm an expat myself and while I would admit 'never say never', I doubt if I will ever return. Holidays, sure. Maybe even retirement. But to live and work? Nah.

Perhaps some of the posters who are so convinced that emigrants will return might explain why we would?

johnr1

+1 to what Corinthian posted and id add the following:

In the rural area I come from, I noticed a few dufferent stages of emigration.

In the 1980s, they left for unskilled or semi skilled jobs in London, or as illegals in New York.
Of these, about half returned mostly with small children, during the 1990s or later.

In 1991 when I did the LC, - ALL my Lc class went to college. Few emigrated, most settled in ireland as our economy was growing when we emerged from college. I might add, that very few settled in the home area as jobs commensurate with education level were not available there. I did, but in a different career.

The generation who came after me, say did Lc in 2000 or so, had the luxury of going to college and being able to find jobs near where they came from, or anywhere else in Irl, as internet availibility, spread of technology, and the general bubble economy allowed for high skillset jobs everywhere.

Many of this generation chose not to go to third level at all, and instead just went into the burgeoning cons/property sector, and all its spin off boomtime unsustainable employment opportunities.

The generation who are leaving college today, have the type of skills for which there will NEVER be jobs again in rural Irl whatever about Dublin. They are gone and will not return.

This is sad for rural Irl, but it is simply what would have happened 15 years ago without the artifical bubble we had.
On a side note, their older brothers and sisters who are now 'trapped' and underemployed in rural ireland will parent the next generation, who will probably also leave.

I think we are seeing the delayed start of a huge gulf opening up between rural and urban incomes and opportunities in ireland. Most developed
countries already have this, ireland didn't up till now, partly due to CAP, and partly due to the bubble.

Rightwing

The Corinthian wrote: »

First of all, there's a lot of BS being quoted here on how the majority of emigrants returning after a year or so. Where this figure is arrived at, I've no idea and I have a sneaky suspicion that student Summer jobs and 1-year working trips are being included in this calculation. This is not emigration; it's a long, working, holiday.

However it's hardly rocket science that better qualified people are far more likely to emigrate. To begin with they can more easily get visas in other countries, and unless the country in question is in desperate need of unskilled labour, jobs are much easier for them to find.

Plus those better qualified people are the one's who carry the burden of taxes in Ireland (it was the same story back in the 1980's), there's no shortage of countries, even in Europe, where they will get a much better deal.

As for returning, I get the impression that some of the people here responding are quite young. To begin with, it's easy enough to pick up and move when you're young and single. If in a stable relationship, it already starts getting a bit more complicated, because it's not just your job and career that's a factor, but your partner's. Add marriage and kids, especially once they reached school age, and the barriers to moving become almost prohibitive.

Of course, you'll get the retirees who eventually come back, but even then not always. I've known a good few who ended up raising their kids in the new country and those kids integrated, married and started families themselves. As a result, many a plan to return to the old sod for one's old age has been scuppered by the greater desire to remain close to one's grandchildren.

And this is all before you ask why would you come back? After all, the Celtic Tiger is the only time in our history where emigrants did come back - was it all down to Ryanair making it cheaper to do? No, it's because it made economic sense to do so; things were good in Ireland - good enough to tempt people back.

If you're sitting in a country where you're financially far better off, career-wise have far more opportunities and your standard of living makes Ireland look like Weiß Afrika, why on Earth would you want to return? For the Guinness? Seriously.

I'm an expat myself and while I would admit 'never say never', I doubt if I will ever return. Holidays, sure. Maybe even retirement. But to live and work? Nah.

Perhaps some of the posters who are so convinced that emigrants will return might explain why we would?

Some people come back, miss family etc.

Bottom line is: we are a small country with few natural resources. Canada/Aus are rich. Comparing Ireland to Canada is like comparing R Madrid to Ipswich town.

We had 1 chance and Ahern and his govt blew it through greed, corruption, incompetence etc.

SpaceTime

One thing that is causing it is economic instability and lack of certainty about the future in terms of both economic growth and stability of basics like health services and education as well as constant threats that the Euro will be wound up. Pension funds have also been wiped out in many cases.

Even on a practical level basic access to credit lines is still totally abnormal. Banks are being exceptionally tight about overdrafts, small loans etc etc

That kind of thing doesn't make you want to stick around.

There is still a sense that there's no future. The 'crisis' has become a depression and the EU in particular seems to fail to grasp how much damage attempting internal deflation can do.

Then couple that with the economically suicidal policies of the previous government that have left us locked into this mess by doing irrevocable deals that were mind boggling bad for the country.

Also if you're in Dublin and Cork in particular you don't really see this to the same extent but if you are in some of the smaller regional towns it's just endless closed shops and things disappearing.

That becomes quite depressing. I mean I had a wander around Sligo town and it had completely lost the buzz it had a few years ago. Loads of boarded up shops and tacky cheap places being the only things opening new.

That would make you think about moving.

These places are just declining and quite rapidly in some cases.

I would also add that in many cases where you do find job opportunities here you're being put through the ringer by employers.

Short contracts are becoming more common which means you can't even get a loan from a back. Recruitment agents are often arrogant to the point of being totally off putting and would really make you feel like emigrating immediately.
Pay rates are lower and it can be very hard to get your foot in the door at all in some industries as they only want people with exact levels of experience.

The result is that other than in IT, early career opportunities are often much better abroad than here.

Then in the workplace there is a constant threat of pay cuts, unreasonable overtime demands and redundancy. Companies here are often under pressure and can be increasingly unpleasant to work for.

So if you have better options elsewhere would you stay?

The Corinthian

Rightwing wrote: »

Some people come back, miss family etc.

Absolutely some people go back to Ireland; the culture gap is too big, separation from family and friends back home gets to them - or their spouses, who then demand that they return - and so on.

But some is not most, as has been claimed here. Anecdotally, I've seen few leave, and of those none have returned to Ireland; instead they moved onto another work contract in a third country.

Bottom line is: we are a small country with few natural resources. Canada/Aus are rich. Comparing Ireland to Canada is like comparing R Madrid to Ipswich town.

The World is comprised of more than Ireland, Canada and Australia, and there's no shortage of countries that are small, have few natural resources and doing better than Ireland. It has absolutely nothing to do with natural resources.

We had 1 chance and Ahern and his govt blew it through greed, corruption, incompetence etc.

And this is one of the reasons that people choose not to come back. In other countries, when they find themselves in the same situation, they don't resign themselves to having blown their one chance and instead roll up their sleeves and build another 'chance' for themselves.

Rightwing

The Corinthian wrote: »

Absolutely some people go back to Ireland; the culture gap is too big, separation from family and friends back home gets to them - or their spouses, who then demand that they return - and so on.

But some is not most, as has been claimed here. Anecdotally, I've seen few leave, and of those none have returned to Ireland; instead they moved onto another work contract in a third country.

The World is comprised of more than Ireland, Canada and Australia, and there's no shortage of countries that are small, have few natural resources and doing better than Ireland. It has absolutely nothing to do with natural resources.

And this is one of the reasons that people choose not to come back. In other countries, when they find themselves in the same situation, they don't resign themselves to having blown their one chance and instead roll up their sleeves and build another 'chance' for themselves.

I'd be most interested in hearing some examples, of where politicians have racked up over €200bln of debt in a decade, blown the country's competitiveness, how they came back.
If you don't have natural resources, you simply don't do what we did. and expect to 'roll up the sleeves' and come back.

SpaceTime

I agree. Australia in particular reminds me a lot of Celtic tiger Ireland to the point that I would be nervous of buying property there at the moment.

Any slowdown in their minerals boom such as China finding other cheaper sources in Africa and Australia could hit a wall too.

I just see massive property price hikes and public expenditure hikes.

The mineral wealth will cushion it but I'm not convinced about the rest of the Aussi economy.

Canada has had property bubbles in the past and has more hope of avoiding one. Although Vancouver is getting rather bubbly.

Frank Lee Midere

The Corinthian wrote: »

First of all, there's a lot of BS being quoted here on how the majority of emigrants returning after a year or so. Where this figure is arrived at, I've no idea and I have a sneaky suspicion that student Summer jobs and 1-year working trips are being included in this calculation. This is not emigration; it's a long, working, holiday.

However it's hardly rocket science that better qualified people are far more likely to emigrate. To begin with they can more easily get visas in other countries, and unless the country in question is in desperate need of unskilled labour, jobs are much easier for them to find.

Plus those better qualified people are the one's who carry the burden of taxes in Ireland (it was the same story back in the 1980's), there's no shortage of countries, even in Europe, where they will get a much better deal.

As for returning, I get the impression that some of the people here responding are quite young. To begin with, it's easy enough to pick up and move when you're young and single. If in a stable relationship, it already starts getting a bit more complicated, because it's not just your job and career that's a factor, but your partner's. Add marriage and kids, especially once they reached school age, and the barriers to moving become almost prohibitive.

Of course, you'll get the retirees who eventually come back, but even then not always. I've known a good few who ended up raising their kids in the new country and those kids integrated, married and started families themselves. As a result, many a plan to return to the old sod for one's old age has been scuppered by the greater desire to remain close to one's grandchildren.

And this is all before you ask why would you come back? After all, the Celtic Tiger is the only time in our history where emigrants did come back - was it all down to Ryanair making it cheaper to do? No, it's because it made economic sense to do so; things were good in Ireland - good enough to tempt people back.

If you're sitting in a country where you're financially far better off, career-wise have far more opportunities and your standard of living makes Ireland look like Weiß Afrika, why on Earth would you want to return? For the Guinness? Seriously.

I'm an expat myself and while I would admit 'never say never', I doubt if I will ever return. Holidays, sure. Maybe even retirement. But to live and work? Nah.

Perhaps some of the posters who are so convinced that emigrants will return might explain why we would?

I am 38 and a previous emigrant (10 years) as were a good percentage of my college class, and most are back. My standard of living here is easily as high as when I was in London. I wouldn't have come back in the boom however when prices were crazy.

gaius c

johnr1 wrote: »

+1 to what Corinthian posted and id add the following:

In the rural area I come from, I noticed a few dufferent stages of emigration.

In the 1980s, they left for unskilled or semi skilled jobs in London, or as illegals in New York.
Of these, about half returned mostly with small children, during the 1990s or later.

In 1991 when I did the LC, - ALL my Lc class went to college. Few emigrated, most settled in ireland as our economy was growing when we emerged from college. I might add, that very few settled in the home area as jobs commensurate with education level were not available there. I did, but in a different career.

The generation who came after me, say did Lc in 2000 or so, had the luxury of going to college and being able to find jobs near where they came from, or anywhere else in Irl, as internet availibility, spread of technology, and the general bubble economy allowed for high skillset jobs everywhere.

Many of this generation chose not to go to third level at all, and instead just went into the burgeoning cons/property sector, and all its spin off boomtime unsustainable employment opportunities.

The generation who are leaving college today, have the type of skills for which there will NEVER be jobs again in rural Irl whatever about Dublin. They are gone and will not return.

This is sad for rural Irl, but it is simply what would have happened 15 years ago without the artifical bubble we had.
On a side note, their older brothers and sisters who are now 'trapped' and underemployed in rural ireland will parent the next generation, who will probably also leave.

I think we are seeing the delayed start of a huge gulf opening up between rural and urban incomes and opportunities in ireland. Most developed
countries already have this, ireland didn't up till now, partly due to CAP, and partly due to the bubble.

You could make a fairly persuasive argument that emigration has always been the norm in this country with the 90's-00's a deviation from the norm and now we're reverting to that norm.

Makes me angry to think of how we've pissed away this chance. Finland was even poorer than us in the early 20th century with huge emigration but they turned things around. Us...