Pedestrian Crossing Lower Mallow Street-Shannon Bridge Roundabout

Scar001

Sweet Divine Jesus, could they have put the pedestrian crossing any closer to the roundabout. Only a matter of time before someone gets run over.:mad::mad:
Would the crossing at Lower Mallow Street/Henry Street not suffice??

bgrizzley

i commented the same to the Mrs a few weeks ago. its nuts.

grenache

Said the same thing for years. Absolute genius stuff from the city council. Right at a spot where cars are coming off the roundabout and speeding up again.

They did the very same thing out by the University roundabout on Dublin Road.

Scar001

The crossing on the bridge is bad enough but the new crossing below Jury's Inn is crazy. I was the second in line to stop at the crossing this evening and ended up blocking the roundabout. It must be no more than 10 feet from exiting the roundabout to the crossing.
Surely they do some sort of risk assessment or there is a standard distance that a crossing should be from a roundabout??

(Not sure when the crossing was put in place as I haven't driven up Lower Mallow Street in a few weeks)

Berty

I've already seen a crash. Car got rear ended by another because a pedestrian was using it. Going be worse when the quay reopens because people will need to accelerate hard at rush hour to join the roundabout and like the Dublin road may not notice a car braking for a pedestrian as you can't see brake lights from the side of a car.

untouchable

if drivers in this city didnt drive like their car was going to blow up any second there wouldnt be an issue. surely pedestrains using the city streets should take priority over cars since that is one of the reasons people dont shop in the city. i say put a 30km speed limit on the whole city centre. if you dont wanna put up with it then avoid the city centre

thesimpsons

some yrs ago the council went to France on jolly fact finding mission and came back with this "fabulous" idea of crossings on roundabouts. what they probably didn't do was realise that the cross were supposed to be set back further from the roundabout.

the drifter

untouchable wrote: »

if drivers in this city didnt drive like their car was going to blow up any second there wouldnt be an issue. surely pedestrains using the city streets should take priority over cars since that is one of the reasons people dont shop in the city. i say put a 30km speed limit on the whole city centre. if you dont wanna put up with it then avoid the city centre

yip....avoiding the city centre is just what limerick needs.

fryup

its the same at the parkway roundabout

h3000

untouchable wrote: »

if drivers in this city didnt drive like their car was going to blow up any second there wouldnt be an issue. surely pedestrains using the city streets should take priority over cars since that is one of the reasons people dont shop in the city. i say put a 30km speed limit on the whole city centre. if you dont wanna put up with it then avoid the city centre

Pedestrians should and do in most cases have priority over cars but that does not take away from the fact the pedestrian crossing on the exits of roundabouts are just plain dangerous. Stopping on a roundabout is dangerous full stop. If they were positioned 50>100 feet further away from the exits than many are positioned now it would be much safer. There is a lot going on on a roundabout for a driver as it is, adding another obstacle that can put peoples lives in danger is idiotic.

Pandiani

I've recently travelled around Spain and the pedestrian crossings at the roundabouts at the towns I drove at were set on top of a speed bump on the road. This could be a good idea for these roundabouts as you would have to slow down anyway

untouchable

the drifter wrote: »

yip....avoiding the city centre is just what limerick needs.

motorists using the city centre as a means to get to another destination is NOT what limerick needs. limerick needs pedestrians walking through its streets. that is my point.

the city centre should lean more towards pedestrian friendly rather than vehicle friendly


the appeal to places like the crescent is
- free parking
- no traffic so no dangerous driving going through the center

at the moment if you have young kids or even elderly/disabled people with you it is alot more pedestrian friendly to go to the crescent

untouchable

h3000 wrote: »

Pedestrians should and do in most cases have priority over cars but that does not take away from the fact the pedestrian crossing on the exits of roundabouts are just plain dangerous. Stopping on a roundabout is dangerous full stop. If they were positioned 50>100 feet further away from the exits than many are positioned now it would be much safer. There is a lot going on on a roundabout for a driver as it is, adding another obstacle that can put peoples lives in danger is idiotic.

if cars travelled through a roundabout at a reduced speed there would be no issue here. a reduced speed limit would force drivers to drive slower on roundabouts such as the ones we are talking about. it means that cars stopping on the roundabout wouldnt cause much of a fuss. this whole idea of needing to speed up coming off a roundabout is ridiculous. no need to have speed in a city centre

untouchable

Pandiani wrote: »

I've recently travelled around Spain and the pedestrian crossings at the roundabouts at the towns I drove at were set on top of a speed bump on the road. This could be a good idea for these roundabouts as you would have to slow down anyway

i wonder if you had speed bumps on the actual roundabout. just have all speed bumps meaning cars would be forced to slow down anyway

h3000

untouchable wrote: »

if cars travelled through a roundabout at a reduced speed there would be no issue here. a reduced speed limit would force drivers to drive slower on roundabouts such as the ones we are talking about. it means that cars stopping on the roundabout wouldnt cause much of a fuss. this whole idea of needing to speed up coming off a roundabout is ridiculous. no need to have speed in a city centre

Speed is only one factor in this though and I really believe quite a small one. Sharing the roundabout with many other vehicles particularly with larger vehicles can take the drivers full attention or even view away from the exit. Now this is not good but it's the way things are. Putting the crossings so close to the exit is dangerous.

h3000

untouchable wrote: »

i wonder if you had speed bumps on the actual roundabout. just have all speed bumps meaning cars would be forced to slow down anyway

The whole idea of roundabouts is to improve the flow of traffic as opposed to other junction types.

MarkR

Speed on the roundabout isn't the issue. I doubt anyone is going over 30 km/h around a roundabout. It's the visibility of where the crossing is. If they put it back another 20 metres, then you'd have more visibility of pedestrians about to cross.

If you want the city centre to be open to pedestrians, you have to remember that most people drive to the city before they can walk around.

untouchable

maybe an alternative to a roundabout is whats needed. surely they could just change the route plan for that area of the city and stop it from being a 4 way roundabout. that would cut back on the danger.

where exactly is this pedestrian crossing?? if its the one im thinking of its been there since time began. is it the one on teh dock road or the one on the roundabout at the opposite road to the bridge?

i just think that if we make more "hassle" for pedestrians then they will leave the city completely. surely there must be another way

h3000

untouchable wrote: »

maybe an alternative to a roundabout is whats needed. surely they could just change the route plan for that area of the city and stop it from being a 4 way roundabout. that would cut back on the danger.

where exactly is this pedestrian crossing?? if its the one im thinking of its been there since time began. is it the one on teh dock road or the one on the roundabout at the opposite road to the bridge?

i just think that if we make more "hassle" for pedestrians then they will leave the city completely. surely there must be another way

Roundabouts work well and pedestrian crossings work well but the don't work so well when combined. All that really needs to be done is to move the crossings back from the roundabouts.

untouchable wrote: »

where exactly is this pedestrian crossing?? if its the one im thinking of its been there since time began. is it the one on teh dock road or the one on the roundabout at the opposite road to the bridge?

The one on the bridge and the one heading towards Howley's quay are the main issue. Nearly all the roundabouts out the Dublin road have crossings on all exits or the roundabouts too which are just as bad.

untouchable

h3000 wrote: »

Roundabouts work well and pedestrian crossings work well but the don't work so well when combined. All that really needs to be done is to move the crossings back from the roundabouts.



The one on the bridge and the one heading towards Howley's quay are the main issue. Nearly all the roundabouts out the Dublin road have crossings on all exits or the roundabouts too which are just as bad.

it seems to be the way all over the country though. see it makes sense to have a crossing when its traffic coming onto the roundabout. its just difficult when traffic is coming off it. but you cant have one without the other. all over this seems to be the way. im sure there is some reason for it. in my opinion it isnt a big deal stopping in a roundabout if the traffic is going slow enough

h3000

untouchable wrote: »

it seems to be the way all over the country though. see it makes sense to have a crossing when its traffic coming onto the roundabout. its just difficult when traffic is coming off it. but you cant have one without the other. all over this seems to be the way. im sure there is some reason for it. in my opinion it isnt a big deal stopping in a roundabout if the traffic is going slow enough

Stopping on a roundabout defeats the whole purpose of a roundabout and in my opinion it is dangerous.

untouchable

so i was reading a little about pedestrian crossing just there. there is a report done in Australia that mentions why pedestrain crossing are used on roundabouts and it turns out the reason for it is to slow down traffic using the roundabouts. i suppose if there are zebra crossings on the roundabout traffic has to slow done.

i think the issue is that road users get annoyed with the thought of anyone else using the road

http://www.thinkingtransport.org.au/content/pedestrians

untouchable

h3000 wrote: »

Stopping on a roundabout defeats the whole purpose of a roundabout and in my opinion it is dangerous.

not if you drive slowly like your supposed to

moving the crossing 10 yards up the road makes no difference at peak times. there is still a chance that cars will be stopping on the roundabout

bazz26

This is a real catch 22 scenario. That junction is just too busy and dangerous imo to have a roundabout and pedestrian crossing on it. Normally on a busy junction a controlled system using traffic lights is more suitable to a roundabout. However traffic lights didn't work there either as traffic just got more and more congested with little or no movement.

Berty

The students out by UL painted their own roundabout in where they thought was a safe location, the council removed it and said that a crossing nearly on the roundabout is safer.

IMO the students where correct and the council is incorrect by putting any crossing so close to a roundabout.

h3000

untouchable wrote: »

not if you drive slowly like your supposed to

moving the crossing 10 yards up the road makes no difference at peak times. there is still a chance that cars will be stopping on the roundabout

I do drive slowly in built up areas, I know that there are idiots that do not but I still believe that pedestrian crossings on an exit of a roundabout is dangerous.


Anyhow I don't think we will ever agree here :p:)

untouchable

yea i agree totally that its dangerous as is. its something that the powers that be really should look into. there is definitely a solution

untouchable

h3000 wrote: »

I do drive slowly in built up areas, I know that there are idiots that do not but I still believe that pedestrian crossings on an exit of a roundabout is dangerous.


Anyhow I don't think we will ever agree here :p:)

thats ok:) we all have differing views. thats the whole point. i agree that its not safe right now though

krudler

fryup wrote: »

its the same at the parkway roundabout

The amount of times I've seen people just walk straight across that crossing without even looking, I know cars are meant to stop but how idiotic would you have to be to just assume they will without checking first. It's usually busy there but at quiet times you see cars flying through it, only matter of time before someone gets ploughed into

untouchable

krudler wrote: »

The amount of times I've seen people just walk straight across that crossing without even looking, I know cars are meant to stop but how idiotic would you have to be to just assume they will without checking first. It's usually busy there but at quiet times you see cars flying through it, only matter of time before someone gets ploughed into

maybe a couple of speed cams will sort it out. the amount of times i go to cross at any pedestrian crossing only for cars to fly through it is a joke. some people think they own teh road and some professions at that

Stellaluna

I'm not keen on the crossings on this roundabout. It took me a while to get into the habit of being more vigilant of traffic exiting, and potentially stopping at the exit of, the roundabout as I'm normally more focussed on looking for traffic coming from the right. Anyway I suppose the crossings are here to stay. I'm not keen using them as a pedestrian either because I always feel that the cars stop suddenly or not at all - you don't get much of a chance to make early eye contact and the driver doesn't have a lot of time to see you and make the decision to stop - even if they're travelling at a reasonable speed it's a short stopping distance (IMHO)

fryup

is this design (for want of a better word) the standard throughout europe??

Scar001

The UK government recommendations are available online.
States that the crossing should be within 5 metres and 20 metres back from the yield line for cars. I think the idea is that there should be a central kerbed island between the incoming and outgoing lanes, which offers protection for the pedestrian when they are halfway across. Not sure if this is the case at the Shannonbridge roundabout??
I suspect the pedestrian crossing on the Jury's Inn side is no more than 5 metres back.

thesimpsons

on topic of this roundabout (but not the ped crossings) its becoming habit for some drivers to take the left lane over the bridge and right round the roundabout to 3rd exit. see it mostly in mornings when I guess some drivers just don't believe in following rules of road. I know it used to happen yrs ago but it seemed to disappear until just recently. bloody annoying - can be hard enough sometimes to get onto roundabout from Mallow st side without idiots doing this.

krudler

untouchable wrote: »

maybe a couple of speed cams will sort it out. the amount of times i go to cross at any pedestrian crossing only for cars to fly through it is a joke. some people think they own teh road and some professions at that

Oh yeah I know cars are meant to stop, but I'd never just blindly walk straight out across a crossing without checking people have slowed down first, its madness to assume.

phog

thesimpsons wrote: »

on topic of this roundabout (but not the ped crossings) its becoming habit for some drivers to take the left lane over the bridge and right round the roundabout to 3rd exit. see it mostly in mornings when I guess some drivers just don't believe in following rules of road. I know it used to happen yrs ago but it seemed to disappear until just recently. bloody annoying - can be hard enough sometimes to get onto roundabout from Mallow st side without idiots doing this.

The gardai controlled this for a while and stamped out the practice, by the sounds of things it needs to be checked again.

phill106

untouchable wrote: »

maybe a couple of speed cams will sort it out. the amount of times i go to cross at any pedestrian crossing only for cars to fly through it is a joke. some people think they own teh road and some professions at that

Speed isnt the issue. If a car is doing 30kph and a pedestrian walks quickly out onto the crossing it would not end well. Either a injured pedestrian or a driver needing to change their trousers!

black & white

phog wrote: »

The gardai controlled this for a while and stamped out the practice, by the sounds of things it needs to be checked again.

Correct, they had someone outside Snap print who spent an hour or so writing tickets.

Cookiemunster

untouchable wrote: »

maybe a couple of speed cams will sort it out. the amount of times i go to cross at any pedestrian crossing only for cars to fly through it is a joke. some people think they own teh road and some professions at that

Speed isn't the problem. At a roundabout you're not going to be travelling fast, especially at this roundabout. The problem is that to navigate a roundabout you're attention can't be solely on whats in front of you. You have to constantly watch for other traffic entering / leaving the roundabout. It's only on leaving the roundabout that you can again fully concentrate on whats in front of you. When the crossing however is on top of the junction, you have no reaction time if someone steps off the path in front of you, even if you're only travelling at 30kph.

Scar001 wrote: »

The UK government recommendations are available online.
States that the crossing should be within 5 metres and 20 metres back from the yield line for cars. I think the idea is that there should be a central kerbed island between the incoming and outgoing lanes, which offers protection for the pedestrian when they are halfway across. Not sure if this is the case at the Shannonbridge roundabout??
I suspect the pedestrian crossing on the Jury's Inn side is no more than 5 metres back.

It's only about 2m back. If a car leaving the roundabout has to stop the back of the car will still be on the roundabout. It's way to close, but it's the same all over the city.

untouchable

again this is not just in limerick. it is all over ireland and all over the world

it is a feature to slow down motorists using the roundabout. both going onto and coming off.

i dont see how it is dangerous to stop on a roundabout if everyone is going slow enough

DarkJager

untouchable wrote: »

again this is not just in limerick. it is all over ireland and all over the world

it is a feature to slow down motorists using the roundabout. both going onto and coming off.

i dont see how it is dangerous to stop on a roundabout if everyone is going slow enough

How is it a feature to slow down motorists when they can't even see it until they're almost on top of it? It's a hazard to both motorists and pedestrians. And if you can't see why it's dangerous to stop on a roundabout you obviously don't drive.

untouchable

DarkJager wrote: »

How is it a feature to slow down motorists when they can't even see it until they're almost on top of it? It's a hazard to both motorists and pedestrians. And if you can't see why it's dangerous to stop on a roundabout you obviously don't drive.

thats such a cop out

you dont need to see it until your coming off the roundabout. if you are driving at 20km your not going to have trouble stopping.

this is something that is used all over the world be it australia to even the states where we think they dont use roundabouts. it is used to slow down cars

DarkJager

untouchable wrote: »

thats such a cop out

you dont need to see it until your coming off the roundabout if you are driving at 20km your not going to have trouble stopping.

this is something that is used all over the world be it australia to even the states where we think they dont use roundabouts. it is used to slow down cars

What?? I'm controlling a moving ton of weight and I don't need to see a crossing which is being used by pedestrians until they're almost under the wheels? It's an absolute danger to everyone. If I come off the roundabout and someone is crossing it one of two things could happen.

A) I jam on the brakes and end up with another car parked straight in to the back of me.
Depending on road conditions (wet or icy), the brakes don't stop the car and the pedestrian goes under the wheels.

It will probably take a death there to make yourself and the council see its a completely illogical placing for a crossing.

Cookiemunster

untouchable wrote: »

thats such a cop out

you dont need to see it until your coming off the roundabout. if you are driving at 20km your not going to have trouble stopping.

this is something that is used all over the world be it australia to even the states where we think they dont use roundabouts. it is used to slow down cars

I have to agree with DarkJager. Do you drive? Because you sound like someone who doesn't.
Even at 20kmph if someone steps out on the road in front of you that you couldn't see while navigating the roundabout you will still have to slam the brakes. The issue is that the crossings are too close to the junction, not the speed of the cars.

untouchable

DarkJager wrote: »

What?? I'm controlling a moving ton of weight and I don't need to see a crossing which is being used by pedestrians until they're almost under the wheels? It's an absolute danger to everyone. If I come off the roundabout and someone is crossing it one of two things could happen.

A) I jam on the brakes and end up with another car parked straight in to the back of me.
Depending on road conditions (wet or icy), the brakes don't stop the car and the pedestrian goes under the wheels.

It will probably take a death there to make yourself and the council see its a completely illogical placing for a crossing.

you mean me the council and the rest of the world................. yea everyone else is wrong

let me ask you how long it takes you to get from 20kim to 0km??

fact is speed is THE sole issue

DarkJager

untouchable wrote: »

you mean me the council and the rest of the world................. yea everyone else is wrong

let me ask you how long it takes you to get from 20kim to 0km??

fact is speed is THE sole issue

As the above poster said it's nothing to do with speed, it's the immediate braking required due to the stupid proximity to the roundabout that is the issue. That crossing a further 5-10 metres up the road would be no issue.

As for the speed, it's a road which is used by vehicles. Roads have a speed limit. You cannot honestly expect vehicles to crawl around at 20kph because there might some idiotic pedestrian crossing around a blind corner. Motorists have enough hazards to watch for while driving without one being placed deliberately in their path and out of view.

untouchable

http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/need-use-subways-cross-Bear-Pit/story-16450164-detail/story.html

http://www.google.ie/imgres?imgurl=http://international.fhwa.dot.gov/pubs/pl03020/images/fig5_6.jpg&imgrefurl=http://international.fhwa.dot.gov/pubs/pl03020/chp05.cfm&h=345&w=500&sz=189&tbnid=W3wQCXkSw2nwDM:&tbnh=92&tbnw=133&zoom=1&usg=__v-_RjJgHD8wAXRO23xuWtUfixWw=&docid=t2j01WjWBEkuIM&sa=X&ei=H6ZKUuPvBa6O7QaawIGIBg&ved=0CD4Q9QEwAg

http://www.renthomas.ca/transportation/a-roundabout-way-of-decreasing-pedestrian-safety

fact is there are loads of debates in relation to roundabouts.

alot of people in the states for instance think roundabouts are dangerous and should be done away with regardless of pedestrains.

it is unsafe and ive said it loads on here.

but if there where speed restrictions it would not be unsafe.

fact is that its not me and the city council. its all over the country and if you dont see that then you obviously dont do much driving either;)

untouchable

DarkJager wrote: »

As the above poster said it's nothing to do with speed, it's the immediate braking required due to the stupid proximity to the roundabout that is the issue. That crossing a further 5-10 metres up the road would be no issue.

As for the speed, it's a road which is used by vehicles. Roads have a speed limit. You cannot honestly expect vehicles to crawl around at 20kph because there might some idiotic pedestrian crossing around a blind corner. Motorists have enough hazards to watch for while driving without one being placed deliberately in their path and out of view.

yea that idiot pedestrain crossing at a PEDESTRIAN CROSSING. pretty much sums up the attitude of drivers in this city

DarkJager

untouchable wrote: »

yea that idiot pedestrain crossing at a PEDESTRIAN CROSSING. pretty much sums up the attitude of drivers in this city

Idiotic pedestrian crossing, not idiotic pedestrian crossing it. Can you read? As for your remark about me not driving much, I travel 3 hours a day and have been driving over 8 years. I've been in numerous cities around Ireland and have yet to see such a dangerous hazard on a roundabout exit as this crossing is.

untouchable

DarkJager wrote: »

Idiotic pedestrian crossing, not idiotic pedestrian crossing it. Can you read? As for your remark about me not driving much, I travel 3 hours a day and have been driving over 8 years. I've been in numerous cities around Ireland and have yet to see such a dangerous hazard on a roundabout exit as this crossing is.

well i travel from limerick to waterford twice a week apart from any other travelling i do. i know that road like the back of my hand

in waterford as your leaving the city. there are pedestrain crossings on all sides of the roundabout bar the bridge side. also in waterford on the outer link road there are a few examples of pedestrian crossings on roundabouts.


in carrick there are 3 examples of this on the route from waterford to limerick

clonmel is FULL of roundabouts with crossings

bansha has one i think

tipp has 3 or 4

limerick junction has a reallllly dangerous one

and finally limerick has very very very few roundabouts that dont have pedestrian crossings

thats just a trip from waterford to limerick

https://maps.google.ie/maps?newwindow=1&hl=en&q=waterford%20to%20limerick%20distance&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wl

aside from that i know that shannon and galway both have loads

Cookiemunster

untouchable wrote: »

http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/need-use-subways-cross-Bear-Pit/story-16450164-detail/story.html

http://www.google.ie/imgres?imgurl=http://international.fhwa.dot.gov/pubs/pl03020/images/fig5_6.jpg&imgrefurl=http://international.fhwa.dot.gov/pubs/pl03020/chp05.cfm&h=345&w=500&sz=189&tbnid=W3wQCXkSw2nwDM:&tbnh=92&tbnw=133&zoom=1&usg=__v-_RjJgHD8wAXRO23xuWtUfixWw=&docid=t2j01WjWBEkuIM&sa=X&ei=H6ZKUuPvBa6O7QaawIGIBg&ved=0CD4Q9QEwAg

http://www.renthomas.ca/transportation/a-roundabout-way-of-decreasing-pedestrian-safety

fact is there are loads of debates in relation to roundabouts.

alot of people in the states for instance think roundabouts are dangerous and should be done away with regardless of pedestrains.

it is unsafe and ive said it loads on here.

but if there where speed restrictions it would not be unsafe.

fact is that its not me and the city council. its all over the country and if you dont see that then you obviously dont do much driving either;)

It's already been stated in this thread that in the UK the crossings have to be between 5-20m from the junction. Here they are 2m from the junction.
That is not safe.

untouchable wrote: »

yea that idiot pedestrain crossing at a PEDESTRIAN CROSSING. pretty much sums up the attitude of drivers in this city

It is idiotic of anyone to blindly step onto a road before looking first. Whether there's a pedestrian crossing or not.
As has been previously stated, if you come around a blind corner at even 20kmph and someone steps in front of you suddenly, you will still have to slam on the brakes and if the road conditions are poor you may not be able to stop.
2m is too close to the junction and is dangerous.