you'd know

MB Lacey

Cycling towards Dublin on the N11 last night I got beeped out of it by a Dublin bus driver because I was cycling in the bus lane.

I used the bus lane, as I feel I'm entitled to, and I feel safer on the road rather than the bike path on the pavement.

When he stopped at lights I pulled up next to him, he started shouting through the doors 'You should be using the bike lane when there's a continuous white line' I shouted back 'It's not the law', he shouts back 'Yes it is', I shout back 'It's not the law'... you get the picture.

Is it?
That section of the N11 is newly surfaced and painted and the cycle path is very definite - did I miss a rule somewhere about Having to use certain bike paths?

I passed a garda car and was going to ask them, but figured someone here might know better.

Thanks

I've looked on googlemaps to offer a street view, but the photos don't show the swanky new surface, so I'm relying on someone actually knowing the stretch (N11 from Mount Merrion Ave towards Fosters Ave/ UCD)

kenmc

there's no longer an obligation to use a cycle lane*, and this has been the law for almost 1 year.

*unless it is a contraflow, or in a pedestrian area

Chips Lovell

No, it's not the law. It was changed recently. Previously you were obliged to cycle in one where one is provided.

MB Lacey

As I thought.
Thanks.

I imagine when he got back to the bus depot last night he told his friends about the cyclist who had the cheek to say she was allowed to cycle in the bus lane, only for all of the other dublin bus drivers to jeer and heckle him on the error of his ways.
I'd imagine they all sat down with him and patiently explained all the legal rights of the roads cyclists have, and tested him until he fully understood.

derealbadger

MB Lacey wrote: »

As I thought.
Thanks.

I imagine when he got back to the bus depot last night he told his friends about the cyclist who had the cheek to say she was allowed to cycle in the bus lane, only for all of the other dublin bus drivers to jeer and heckle him on the error of his ways.
I'd imagine they all sat down with him and patiently explained all the legal rights of the roads cyclists have, and tested him until he fully understood.

That's quite an imagination you have there

gordongekko

MB Lacey wrote: »

As I thought.
Thanks.

I imagine when he got back to the bus depot last night he told his friends about the cyclist who had the cheek to say she was allowed to cycle in the bus lane, only for all of the other dublin bus drivers to jeer and heckle him on the error of his ways.
I'd imagine they all sat down with him and patiently explained all the legal rights of the roads cyclists have, and tested him until he fully understood.

Are we allowed to bring up the whole road tax debate again

Robertd_07

MB Lacey wrote: »

Cycling towards Dublin on the N11 last night I got beeped out of it by a Dublin bus driver because I was cycling in the bus lane.

I used the bus lane, as I feel I'm entitled to, and I feel safer on the road rather than the bike path on the pavement.

When he stopped at lights I pulled up next to him, he started shouting through the doors 'You should be using the bike lane when there's a continuous white line' I shouted back 'It's not the law', he shouts back 'Yes it is', I shout back 'It's not the law'... you get the picture.

Is it?
That section of the N11 is newly surfaced and painted and the cycle path is very definite - did I miss a rule somewhere about Having to use certain bike paths?

I passed a garda car and was going to ask them, but figured someone here might know better.

Thanks

I've looked on googlemaps to offer a street view, but the photos don't show the swanky new surface, so I'm relying on someone actually knowing the stretch (N11 from Mount Merrion Ave towards Fosters Ave/ UCD)

I travel on this route every day and I'm familiar with the section you're talking about.
I have found it a reasonably common occurrence for bus drivers to take it upon themselves to "educate" me as to the current rules governing using cycle lanes.
I've even gone so far as to compose letters to the Guards about Dublin Bus and Bus Eireann (by far the worse in my experience), however to my shame I must admit I've yet to send any of them.
From now on I will.

T-Maxx

I'm not too familiar with the area BUT - and whatever the law - it's very selfish to hold back a bus.

Chips Lovell

By that logic, anyone who cycles on a road is "holding back" other vehicles.

kenmc

T-Maxx wrote: »

I'm not too familiar with the area BUT - and whatever the law - it's very selfish to hold back a bus.

Bloody busses hold up everyone else though. Stopping every 20 metres to let someone else on or off.

T-Maxx

Yeah but there might be 100 people on the bus, with the next stop miles down the road, or either turning of.

T-Maxx

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

By that logic, anyone who cycles on a road is "holding back" other vehicles.

No. Buses are bigger, less agile, and "confined" to bus lanes, they also operate on a timetable, and don't forget take a lot of cars off the roads.

RobertFoster

If only there was some way to overtake on a three lane road like the N11. Such a shame.

Chips Lovell

T-Maxx wrote: »

Yeah but there might be 100 people on the bus, with the next stop miles down the road, or either turning of.

Bit of a strawman there, no? How often do you see a full bus travelling for miles behind a cyclist? In all my years cycling in Dublin, I've yet to see that happen.

What you usually see is buses and cyclists leapfrogging eachother. Bus moving faster but stopping more often.

Harrybelafonte

Can you hold it in til Friday, then we can all have fun?

redzerredzer

T-Maxx wrote: »

I'm not too familiar with the area BUT - and whatever the law - it's very selfish to hold back a bus.

Exactly. The rule of common sense should take priority.
It works both ways. ( for and against cyclists)
Just stay on the cycle path if its there.

Whether you are technically correct about the law. How can you be proud of yourself that you had a bus full of people stuck behind you while you cycled (probably) about 14 km an hour.

07Lapierre

T-Maxx wrote: »

No. Buses are bigger, less agile, and "confined" to bus lanes, they also operate on a timetable, and don't forget take a lot of cars off the roads.

LOL tell that to people waiting in the rain for the 17A !

Daithi101

That stretch of cycle lane is the best there is between Dublin and Bray, the rest of them are what cycling the Paris - Roubaix must feel like.

Jawgap

T-Maxx wrote: »

I'm not too familiar with the area BUT - and whatever the law - it's very selfish to hold back a bus.

Bloody pedestrians using pedestrian crossings - they hold everyone up just at the push of a button! To$$ers!

kenmc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1V_qz9I1Nk

kenmc

T-Maxx wrote: »

No. Buses are .. "confined" to bus lanes

Oh good, please show me the legislation that says buses must use a bus lane where it's provided.

Tenzor07

Similar expierience... cycling in a group yesterday evening on the N11 towards Dublin, clear road, very little traffic if any, an "out of service" bus heading back to Donnybrook garade decided to do a "Punishment pass" and swerves into the bus lane at speed just in front..

"Big brave man" behind the wheel of his empty double decker...

Dermot Illogical

T-Maxx wrote: »

I'm not too familiar with the area BUT - and whatever the law - it's very selfish to hold back a bus.

They're on rails or something?

Zyzz

And here we go again..

check_six

T-Maxx wrote: »

I'm not too familiar with the area BUT - and whatever the law - it's very selfish to hold back a bus.

Yep, that's the kind of 'holding back a bus' that involves the bus beeping at a cyclist as they make a close pass at full speed and the bus gets *so* far ahead that the bus driver and the cyclist are able to conduct a debate at the next set of red lights. If thats kind of holding back we're talking about, I, for one, find it unconscionable...

This road is a main traffic artery for a chunk of south Dublin. There are many many traffic lights on the road. Even when it is not busy it is not possible to go beyond about 30kph average speed along it's length (in a motor vehicle). A reasonable cyclist will not be far off that (including stops) at *all* times of the day including rush hour, so it would be fair to say that the bus is not going to be held up to any degree whatsoever by MB Lacey.

T-Maxx

Zyzz wrote: »

And here we go again..

Exactly. And there are no winners here, because pissing the bus driver off will just increase the antagonism. Let's not forget about the passengers on the bus who will also experience "this selfish idiot on his bicycle holding us up".

Since this is the cycling forum the opinions will obviously be very biased. The way I see it is that you can either be a real prick and prevent the bus from passing you (because you can) (no reflection on the OP as I don't know his exact circumstances), or you can be more considerate and let the bus go by. Yeah you might have to leap frog each other, but so be it.

Surely we should all be aiming for a win-win situation?

derealbadger

Lumen

T-Maxx wrote: »

The way I see it is that you can either be a real prick and prevent the bus from passing you (because you can) (no reflection on the OP as I don't know his exact circumstances), or you can be more considerate and let the bus go by. Yeah you might have to leap frog each other, but so be it.

Go and read the OP again, since you're "not too familiar with the area". The cycle path is up a kerb on the footpath. So in order to "let the bus go by" you have to bunnyhop sideways at speed, or stop and lift the bike over the kerb.

Off-road cycle paths are provided for people who don't want to use the road. They're in no way mandatory for cyclists, morally, legally or practically.

chanchanman

I had a similar experience going southbound along the N11 recently. The section of the cycle lane near the Stillorgan Park hotel is poorly maintained, has multiple entrances/exits and multiple dips and raises so it makes for a pretty bumpy/uncomfortable ride. Typically I do use the cycle lane to avoid hassle but in this instance I decided to stay on the road and rejoin the cycle lane further down. An aircoach driver beeped me (presumably because he felt that I should be in the cycle lane) while passing by dangerously close. It's really quite unnerving to have a vehicle that close to you, especially one that size.

I don't mind the (wrongful) beep but I do take issue with the dangerous driving. I don't understand why the aircoach couldn't have overtaken me safely while expressing his anger by beeping or whatever. What's to be gained by putting me at risk? Also, the change in law regarding cycle lanes happened some time ago now. I think that it is excusable, to a degree, for some people not to be aware of it, but would professional drivers not have been informed of this change by their employer? It would seem like relevant information for coach/bus drivers to be made aware of considering that many cyclists end up sharing the bus lane with them.

MB Lacey

T-Maxx wrote: »

Exactly. And there are no winners here, because pissing the bus driver off will just increase the antagonism. Let's not forget about the passengers on the bus who will also experience "this selfish idiot on his bicycle holding us up".

Since this is the cycling forum the opinions will obviously be very biased. The way I see it is that you can either be a real prick and prevent the bus from passing you (because you can) (no reflection on the OP as I don't know his exact circumstances), or you can be more considerate and let the bus go by. Yeah you might have to leap frog each other, but so be it.

Surely we should all be aiming for a win-win situation?

Selfish cyclist op here.
I was easily tipping along at 35 kph, its a great stretch of downhill smooth road. I was in front and there was plenty of space so the beep from behind gave me a startle.
Turning round to see why he was beeping could have caused me to lose balance, like I said I wasn't pootling along.

It wasnt far to the lights, he was being a dick.

It was past 7pm so cars were allowed to use the bus lane, so here's some cud for TMaxx to chew on: if I was driving my car, and there was just me in the car, driving in front of the bus, in the bus lane, at the same speed I was cycling, would you consider me a bloody selfish driver for holding the bus up?
Would you expect every car after 7pm to pull aside to let a bus continue in its bus lane?

As a cyclist I had every right to be cycling along that stretch of road, I wasn't cycling in the bus lane to piss anyone off, I was just cycling home - on the road.

MB Lacey

derealbadger wrote: »

That's quite an imagination you have there

It's easy if you try...

Jawgap

Only poor people use peasant wagons and they don't pay as much tax as me so they don't deserve consideration.

Isn't there a hierarchy to these things? I thought there was.

Cookie_Monster

redzerredzer wrote: »

Whether you are technically correct about the law. How can you be proud of yourself that you had a bus full of people stuck behind you while you cycled (probably) about 14 km an hour.

thats twice the average speed of a DB (and far too low for a cyclist also)

redzerredzer

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

thats twice the average speed of a DB (and far too low for a cyclist also)

Is ''DB'' Dublin Bus?
Do they average 7kph? Along the N11 Im pretty sure they can hit 60 but the average will be brought down if stuck behind a cyclist.

As for 14kph being to slow for a female commute cyclist, again I must disagree. Im not saying the OP was going that speed as shes claimed to have been going 30. However I am on that road twice a day and see cyclists with bags etc going about 10kph.

Anyway, OP at that speed you must be some cyclist. What expensive bike were you on? Who do you race for?

Dermot Illogical

redzerredzer wrote: »

Anyway, OP at that speed you must be some cyclist. What expensive bike were you on? Who do you race for?

That's a normal enough speed for a cyclist on a road like that. You need to get out more.

07Lapierre

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

Can you hold it in til Friday, then we can all have fun?

Keep it goin..nearly there!

Zyzz

redzerredzer wrote: »

Is ''DB'' Dublin Bus?
Do they average 7kph? Along the N11 Im pretty sure they can hit 60 but the average will be brought down if stuck behind a cyclist.

As for 14kph being to slow for a female commute cyclist, again I must disagree. Im not saying the OP was going that speed as shes claimed to have been going 30. However I am on that road twice a day and see cyclists with bags etc going about 10kph.

Anyway, OP at that speed you must be some cyclist. What expensive bike were you on? Who do you race for?

I can hit 50km/h+ on the N11..60km/h+ if I get behind a bus..am I a good cyclist even though my bike isn't expensive?

mirrormatrix

Zyzz wrote: »

I can hit 50km/h+ on the N11..60km/h+ if I get behind a bus..am I a good cyclist even though my bike isn't expensive?

If you can get anywhere near 60 km on the N11 I would say that yes, you are a pretty phenomenal cyclist. Most (including me) would only get that on a big hill with a tailwind.

check_six

redzerredzer wrote: »

Is ''DB'' Dublin Bus?
Do they average 7kph? Along the N11 Im pretty sure they can hit 60 but the average will be brought down if stuck behind a cyclist.

The average speed a bus can go on that road is going to be reduced by the amount of traffic lights and the amount of stops to pick up and drop off passengers. The stretch from RTE (Montrose) to the Shankill roundabout has a 60kph limit for buses. The limit goes up to 80kph for cars around Foxrock (just over half way). I'd still reckon it would take around 20 minutes for a car in light daytime traffic to do that stretch, I suppose a bus would be closer to 25-30 minutes (say 10 stops at 30 seconds each) which would be about the time a cyclist would expect to do it in (at any time of the day). Bear in mind that this would be the fastest bus route in the city, so everywhere else would be a lot slower than this.

You'd be surprised just how low your average speed is in a car in the city no matter what the posted speed limit is. Anyone with a trip computer in their car like to comment? My own jalopy does not have such futuristic fripperies. A slot for the coal, and a pressure gauge for the steam is all it features in basic spec!

redzerredzer

Zyzz wrote: »

I can hit 50km/h+ on the N11..60km/h+ if I get behind a bus..am I a good cyclist even though my bike isn't expensive?

Yes, yes you are.

My point is, and I know you all understand this, it is not likely that a female on a commute cycle was keeping up a big speed for any amount of time.
On a heavy commute bike, possibly weighed down with bag etc, wearing non cycling gear, throw some Irish weather and wind in, and suddenly your 30kph is looking pretty fast over a few kms.

Maybe she is a very fast cyclist, on a really good bike, with no bag and wearing lycra, with the wind behind her. Even still, do the world a favour and get out of the way of the 100 people on the bus trying to get home.

To use an anology, I am with in my legal rights to stand beside my bike pointing sideways in the middle of grafton st on a busy saturday. Im doing nothing wrong except annoying people who are trying to get around. Its within the law but grafton st gets so busy it would be very rude.

Chips Lovell

Have you read MB Lacey's posts at all? Or are you just ignoring them because the facts don't suit your argument?

Cookie_Monster

why be sexist about it? why can't a woman on a commuter do it?

incidentally if all those people in their cars weren't blocking up the road the bus could easily pass

wirelessdude01

Round and round we go likes the wheels on a bus AND on a bike

Dermot Illogical

redzerredzer wrote: »

Maybe she is a very fast cyclist, on a really good bike, with no bag and wearing lycra, with the wind behind her. Even still, do the world a favour and get out of the way of the 100 people on the bus trying to get home.

To use an anology, I am with in my legal rights to stand beside my bike pointing sideways in the middle of grafton st on a busy saturday. Im doing nothing wrong except annoying people who are trying to get around. Its within the law but grafton st gets so busy it would be very rude.

You know a bus is capable of doing an overtake, right? If the cyclist is going as slow as your thinking for example, the driver can go around the cyclist by using the accelerator.

And of course you're completely wrong in thinking that you have the right to obstruct a road or footpath too. There are laws against that sort of nonsense.

Harrybelafonte

redzerredzer wrote: »

Yes, yes you are.

My point is, and I know you all understand this, it is not likely that a female on a commute cycle was keeping up a big speed for any amount of time.
On a heavy commute bike, possibly weighed down with bag etc, wearing non cycling gear, throw some Irish weather and wind in, and suddenly your 30kph is looking pretty fast over a few kms.

Maybe she is a very fast cyclist, on a really good bike, with no bag and wearing lycra, with the wind behind her. Even still, do the world a favour and get out of the way of the 100 people on the bus trying to get home.

To use an anology, I am with in my legal rights to stand beside my bike pointing sideways in the middle of grafton st on a busy saturday. Im doing nothing wrong except annoying people who are trying to get around. Its within the law but grafton st gets so busy it would be very rude.

I take your point. To use another analogy, it's like trying to read a thread about a valid argument a cyclist had with a misinformed bus driver and you constantly come across posts that are ill-informed, misongynistic, ignorant and myopic. Same person psting them and they just won't stop, so you keep having to go around their posts to find something worthwhile to read. And they just won't stop posting.

trad

What about all the buses holding up buses in the bus lane?

Zyzz

mirrormatrix wrote: »

If you can get anywhere near 60 km on the N11 I would say that yes, you are a pretty phenomenal cyclist. Most (including me) would only get that on a big hill with a tailwind.

A phenomenal cyclist ey? Sweet :pac:

Jawgap

redzerredzer wrote: »

....
To use an anology, I am with in my legal rights to stand beside my bike pointing sideways in the middle of grafton st on a busy saturday. Im doing nothing wrong except annoying people who are trying to get around. Its within the law but grafton st gets so busy it would be very rude.

Bad analogy. You're committing an offence.....

Regulation 46(1) of the Road Traffic (Traffic and Parking) Regulations, 1997......

A pedestrian shall exercise care and take all reasonable precautions in order to avoid causing danger or inconvenience to traffic and other pedestrians.

redzerredzer

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

I take your point. To use another analogy, it's like trying to read a thread about a valid argument a cyclist had with a misinformed bus driver and you constantly come across posts that are ill-informed, misongynistic, ignorant and myopic. Same person psting them and they just won't stop, so you keep having to go around their posts to find something worthwhile to read. And they just won't stop posting.

What does myopic mean?
Although maybe not the best person to ask as you don't know what misongynistic means.

kenmc

Zyzz wrote: »

A phenomenal cyclist ey? Sweet :pac:

You should defo head out to florence quick smart so, in case one of the lads is under the weather on sunday. A shoe in. We read it here.

Zyzz

kenmc wrote: »

You should defo head out to florence quick smart so, in case one of the lads is under the weather on sunday. A shoe in. We read it here.

One step ahead my friend, flights booked n everything! :pac: