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you'd know

  • 25-09-2013 02:21PM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,278 ✭✭✭


    Cycling towards Dublin on the N11 last night I got beeped out of it by a Dublin bus driver because I was cycling in the bus lane.

    I used the bus lane, as I feel I'm entitled to, and I feel safer on the road rather than the bike path on the pavement.

    When he stopped at lights I pulled up next to him, he started shouting through the doors 'You should be using the bike lane when there's a continuous white line' I shouted back 'It's not the law', he shouts back 'Yes it is', I shout back 'It's not the law'... you get the picture.

    Is it?
    That section of the N11 is newly surfaced and painted and the cycle path is very definite - did I miss a rule somewhere about Having to use certain bike paths?

    I passed a garda car and was going to ask them, but figured someone here might know better.

    Thanks

    I've looked on googlemaps to offer a street view, but the photos don't show the swanky new surface, so I'm relying on someone actually knowing the stretch (N11 from Mount Merrion Ave towards Fosters Ave/ UCD)


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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,283 ✭✭✭kenmc


    there's no longer an obligation to use a cycle lane*, and this has been the law for almost 1 year.

    *unless it is a contraflow, or in a pedestrian area


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,277 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    No, it's not the law. It was changed recently. Previously you were obliged to cycle in one where one is provided.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,278 ✭✭✭MB Lacey


    As I thought.
    Thanks.

    I imagine when he got back to the bus depot last night he told his friends about the cyclist who had the cheek to say she was allowed to cycle in the bus lane, only for all of the other dublin bus drivers to jeer and heckle him on the error of his ways.
    I'd imagine they all sat down with him and patiently explained all the legal rights of the roads cyclists have, and tested him until he fully understood.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,101 ✭✭✭derealbadger


    MB Lacey wrote: »
    As I thought.
    Thanks.

    I imagine when he got back to the bus depot last night he told his friends about the cyclist who had the cheek to say she was allowed to cycle in the bus lane, only for all of the other dublin bus drivers to jeer and heckle him on the error of his ways.
    I'd imagine they all sat down with him and patiently explained all the legal rights of the roads cyclists have, and tested him until he fully understood.

    That's quite an imagination you have there


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,299 ✭✭✭gordongekko


    MB Lacey wrote: »
    As I thought.
    Thanks.

    I imagine when he got back to the bus depot last night he told his friends about the cyclist who had the cheek to say she was allowed to cycle in the bus lane, only for all of the other dublin bus drivers to jeer and heckle him on the error of his ways.
    I'd imagine they all sat down with him and patiently explained all the legal rights of the roads cyclists have, and tested him until he fully understood.

    Are we allowed to bring up the whole road tax debate again :)


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 179 ✭✭Robertd_07


    MB Lacey wrote: »
    Cycling towards Dublin on the N11 last night I got beeped out of it by a Dublin bus driver because I was cycling in the bus lane.

    I used the bus lane, as I feel I'm entitled to, and I feel safer on the road rather than the bike path on the pavement.

    When he stopped at lights I pulled up next to him, he started shouting through the doors 'You should be using the bike lane when there's a continuous white line' I shouted back 'It's not the law', he shouts back 'Yes it is', I shout back 'It's not the law'... you get the picture.

    Is it?
    That section of the N11 is newly surfaced and painted and the cycle path is very definite - did I miss a rule somewhere about Having to use certain bike paths?

    I passed a garda car and was going to ask them, but figured someone here might know better.

    Thanks

    I've looked on googlemaps to offer a street view, but the photos don't show the swanky new surface, so I'm relying on someone actually knowing the stretch (N11 from Mount Merrion Ave towards Fosters Ave/ UCD)
    I travel on this route every day and I'm familiar with the section you're talking about.
    I have found it a reasonably common occurrence for bus drivers to take it upon themselves to "educate" me as to the current rules governing using cycle lanes.
    I've even gone so far as to compose letters to the Guards about Dublin Bus and Bus Eireann (by far the worse in my experience), however to my shame I must admit I've yet to send any of them.
    From now on I will.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,349 ✭✭✭T-Maxx


    I'm not too familiar with the area BUT - and whatever the law - it's very selfish to hold back a bus.


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,277 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    By that logic, anyone who cycles on a road is "holding back" other vehicles.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,283 ✭✭✭kenmc


    T-Maxx wrote: »
    I'm not too familiar with the area BUT - and whatever the law - it's very selfish to hold back a bus.

    Bloody busses hold up everyone else though. Stopping every 20 metres to let someone else on or off.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,349 ✭✭✭T-Maxx


    Yeah but there might be 100 people on the bus, with the next stop miles down the road, or either turning of.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,349 ✭✭✭T-Maxx


    By that logic, anyone who cycles on a road is "holding back" other vehicles.

    No. Buses are bigger, less agile, and "confined" to bus lanes, they also operate on a timetable, and don't forget take a lot of cars off the roads.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,431 ✭✭✭RobertFoster


    If only there was some way to overtake on a three lane road like the N11. Such a shame.


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,277 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    T-Maxx wrote: »
    Yeah but there might be 100 people on the bus, with the next stop miles down the road, or either turning of.

    Bit of a strawman there, no? How often do you see a full bus travelling for miles behind a cyclist? In all my years cycling in Dublin, I've yet to see that happen.

    What you usually see is buses and cyclists leapfrogging eachother. Bus moving faster but stopping more often.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,450 ✭✭✭Harrybelafonte


    Can you hold it in til Friday, then we can all have fun?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 270 ✭✭redzerredzer


    T-Maxx wrote: »
    I'm not too familiar with the area BUT - and whatever the law - it's very selfish to hold back a bus.

    Exactly. The rule of common sense should take priority.
    It works both ways. ( for and against cyclists)
    Just stay on the cycle path if its there.

    Whether you are technically correct about the law. How can you be proud of yourself that you had a bus full of people stuck behind you while you cycled (probably) about 14 km an hour.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,427 ✭✭✭07Lapierre


    T-Maxx wrote: »
    No. Buses are bigger, less agile, and "confined" to bus lanes, they also operate on a timetable, and don't forget take a lot of cars off the roads.

    LOL tell that to people waiting in the rain for the 17A ! :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 101 ✭✭Daithi101


    That stretch of cycle lane is the best there is between Dublin and Bray, the rest of them are what cycling the Paris - Roubaix must feel like.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,296 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    T-Maxx wrote: »
    I'm not too familiar with the area BUT - and whatever the law - it's very selfish to hold back a bus.

    Bloody pedestrians using pedestrian crossings - they hold everyone up just at the push of a button! To$$ers!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,283 ✭✭✭kenmc




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,283 ✭✭✭kenmc


    T-Maxx wrote: »
    No. Buses are .. "confined" to bus lanes
    Oh good, please show me the legislation that says buses must use a bus lane where it's provided.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,491 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    Similar expierience... cycling in a group yesterday evening on the N11 towards Dublin, clear road, very little traffic if any, an "out of service" bus heading back to Donnybrook garade decided to do a "Punishment pass" and swerves into the bus lane at speed just in front..

    "Big brave man" behind the wheel of his empty double decker...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,131 ✭✭✭Dermot Illogical


    T-Maxx wrote: »
    I'm not too familiar with the area BUT - and whatever the law - it's very selfish to hold back a bus.

    They're on rails or something?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,874 ✭✭✭Zyzz


    And here we go again..


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,245 ✭✭✭check_six


    T-Maxx wrote: »
    I'm not too familiar with the area BUT - and whatever the law - it's very selfish to hold back a bus.

    Yep, that's the kind of 'holding back a bus' that involves the bus beeping at a cyclist as they make a close pass at full speed and the bus gets *so* far ahead that the bus driver and the cyclist are able to conduct a debate at the next set of red lights. If thats kind of holding back we're talking about, I, for one, find it unconscionable...

    This road is a main traffic artery for a chunk of south Dublin. There are many many traffic lights on the road. Even when it is not busy it is not possible to go beyond about 30kph average speed along it's length (in a motor vehicle). A reasonable cyclist will not be far off that (including stops) at *all* times of the day including rush hour, so it would be fair to say that the bus is not going to be held up to any degree whatsoever by MB Lacey.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,349 ✭✭✭T-Maxx


    Zyzz wrote: »
    And here we go again..

    Exactly. And there are no winners here, because pissing the bus driver off will just increase the antagonism. Let's not forget about the passengers on the bus who will also experience "this selfish idiot on his bicycle holding us up".

    Since this is the cycling forum the opinions will obviously be very biased. The way I see it is that you can either be a real prick and prevent the bus from passing you (because you can) (no reflection on the OP as I don't know his exact circumstances), or you can be more considerate and let the bus go by. Yeah you might have to leap frog each other, but so be it.

    Surely we should all be aiming for a win-win situation?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,101 ✭✭✭derealbadger


    Gets+popcorn+This+is+going+to+be+gooooood+_291a61e32f340e02ff4851036ed82be6.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,489 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    T-Maxx wrote: »
    The way I see it is that you can either be a real prick and prevent the bus from passing you (because you can) (no reflection on the OP as I don't know his exact circumstances), or you can be more considerate and let the bus go by. Yeah you might have to leap frog each other, but so be it.

    Go and read the OP again, since you're "not too familiar with the area". The cycle path is up a kerb on the footpath. So in order to "let the bus go by" you have to bunnyhop sideways at speed, or stop and lift the bike over the kerb.

    Off-road cycle paths are provided for people who don't want to use the road. They're in no way mandatory for cyclists, morally, legally or practically.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7 chanchanman


    I had a similar experience going southbound along the N11 recently. The section of the cycle lane near the Stillorgan Park hotel is poorly maintained, has multiple entrances/exits and multiple dips and raises so it makes for a pretty bumpy/uncomfortable ride. Typically I do use the cycle lane to avoid hassle but in this instance I decided to stay on the road and rejoin the cycle lane further down. An aircoach driver beeped me (presumably because he felt that I should be in the cycle lane) while passing by dangerously close. It's really quite unnerving to have a vehicle that close to you, especially one that size.

    I don't mind the (wrongful) beep but I do take issue with the dangerous driving. I don't understand why the aircoach couldn't have overtaken me safely while expressing his anger by beeping or whatever. What's to be gained by putting me at risk? Also, the change in law regarding cycle lanes happened some time ago now. I think that it is excusable, to a degree, for some people not to be aware of it, but would professional drivers not have been informed of this change by their employer? It would seem like relevant information for coach/bus drivers to be made aware of considering that many cyclists end up sharing the bus lane with them.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,278 ✭✭✭MB Lacey


    T-Maxx wrote: »
    Exactly. And there are no winners here, because pissing the bus driver off will just increase the antagonism. Let's not forget about the passengers on the bus who will also experience "this selfish idiot on his bicycle holding us up".

    Since this is the cycling forum the opinions will obviously be very biased. The way I see it is that you can either be a real prick and prevent the bus from passing you (because you can) (no reflection on the OP as I don't know his exact circumstances), or you can be more considerate and let the bus go by. Yeah you might have to leap frog each other, but so be it.

    Surely we should all be aiming for a win-win situation?

    Selfish cyclist op here.
    I was easily tipping along at 35 kph, its a great stretch of downhill smooth road. I was in front and there was plenty of space so the beep from behind gave me a startle.
    Turning round to see why he was beeping could have caused me to lose balance, like I said I wasn't pootling along.

    It wasnt far to the lights, he was being a dick.

    It was past 7pm so cars were allowed to use the bus lane, so here's some cud for TMaxx to chew on: if I was driving my car, and there was just me in the car, driving in front of the bus, in the bus lane, at the same speed I was cycling, would you consider me a bloody selfish driver for holding the bus up?
    Would you expect every car after 7pm to pull aside to let a bus continue in its bus lane?

    As a cyclist I had every right to be cycling along that stretch of road, I wasn't cycling in the bus lane to piss anyone off, I was just cycling home - on the road.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,278 ✭✭✭MB Lacey


    That's quite an imagination you have there

    It's easy if you try...


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