Winter Training

Kurt Godel

Season's over in Ireland, no more tri's until April or May... so what's the best way to train over the winter? Six months seems a long time without any goal races, what do people do? Hit the pool, hit the turbo, try and bring down times in preparation for next year... or is there a better was to use the long dark winter months?

pgibbo

Personally I'll be doing all of the above. If I can I'll do a few duathlons over the winter. These don't always work out though. Thinking I might do some XC for the craic too.

Masters galas are also good craic and a nice distraction over the winter

I'll be starting back training in October. The first couple of weeks will be unstructured and train once a day. Just easing back in to it. After that it will probably be 3 swims, 3 bikes and 3 or 4 runs a week. I need to add in some core work though as I neglected that last year. When reviewing my training for last season I found that I rarely, if ever, did all my bike sessions. They were either missed or cut short due to time constraints. Time management will be important too.

I'd also add, how do people structure their weeks to your questions.

Here's what I typically try to do
M Swim & Run
T Turbo
W Swim & Run
T Turbo
F Swim & Run
S Run
S Bike

SlowMe

Periodisation, baby!

BTH

pgibbo wrote: »

Here's what I typically try to do
M Swim & Run
T Turbo
W Swim & Run
T Turbo
F Swim & Run
S Run
S Bike

Something like
M R&S
T B
W S&R
T S&B
F R&S
S B&R
S B

If I can get that much done and stay healthy (already failing on that front, throat in bits :rolleyes: ) then it'll be a cracking winter.

tunney

SlowMe wrote: »

Periodisation, baby!

Reverse or classical?
Polarised or not?
Intermixed or not?

Where do you stand on recent suggestions (anecdotal from pros and evidence based) that periodisation is not the way to go?

(being a slight pr1ck I know but just seeding the conversation a bit more)

mossym

no-one seems to be planning any rest days? is the thinking behind rest days flawed?

tunney

mossym wrote: »

no-one seems to be planning any rest days? is the thinking behind rest days flawed?

Alot of people going in for active recovery. It depends on the person. Some need a rest day, some find rest days counter productive.

BTH and pgibbo are experienced athletes (think its safe to use that word here) so often best not to replicate directly what experienced people do (I know nothing about you so no offence intended).

BTH

mossym wrote: »

no-one seems to be planning any rest days? is the thinking behind rest days flawed?

I'll take rest days if and when I need them. And its not just training load that will influence that. As Tunney says, active recovery will be a big factor. At least two runs and one bike from my plan will be relatively easy sessions, and some weeks they'll be scrapped completely when I feel the need.

SlowMe

tunney wrote: »

Reverse or classical?
Polarised or not?
Intermixed or not?

Where do you stand on recent suggestions (anecdotal from pros and evidence based) that periodisation is not the way to go?

(being a slight pr1ck I know but just seeding the conversation a bit more)

Yeah I know my one liner was a bit smart arsed but I think it's all about a PLAN. For 95% classical periodisation and some discipline (about rest as well as training intensity) would serve very well. I count myself in this too by the way.

I think you'd have to be at the pointy end and training in excess of 20 hours pw to consider any of the periodisation variances currently in style. For most of us operating in the 10 ish hour pw space a good plan that matches time available is the best thing to focus on building at this stage of the season.

Without meaning to criticise others contributions on what S/B/R sessions they are planning I think it is far more important to have a good grasp at types of session intensities that you are planning. That plus technique work and as @pgibbo mentioned core work and also rest are the keys to winter training IMHO

BTH

I'll also add that my "plan" hasn't yet been run past my new coach so its subject to change

Whats that? New coach? Do tell......

mossym

tunney wrote: »

(I know nothing about you so no offence intended).

none taken, only asking to learn. no point in asking if you're going to be offended by answers....

tunney

BTH wrote: »

I'll also add that my "plan" hasn't yet been run past my new coach so its subject to change

Whats that? New coach? Do tell......

Heard that you were part of the Big Orange Cloud team next year. Rumour has it that its a team designed to promote racing in darkness and away from sunlight.

Enduro

tunney wrote: »

Where do you stand on recent suggestions (anecdotal from pros and evidence based) that periodisation is not the way to go?

That sounds interesting. Have you any links for discussions on that?

tunney

Will have to dig out, having kept my bibliography up to date since my I graduated from postgrad

When/if I find I will PM on. I think would be a bit much for this thread.

mossym

Meah, threads like this always go a long way to convincing me that despite enjoying training to my own beat I'd do so much better on a coached plan

BennyMul

tunney wrote: »

Will have to dig out, having kept my bibliography up to date since my I graduated from postgrad

When/if I find I will PM on. I think would be a bit much for this thread.

Is it possible to also get a copy (if you dont mind me asking), Im slightly lost at the moment. trying to get back to training after 5 months off and looking to see if the correct way back (if any) is to follow traditional methods or not.

sconhome

mossym wrote: »

Meah, threads like this always go a long way to convincing me that despite enjoying training to my own beat I'd do so much better on a coached plan

Having a plan is so much better. For years I've tipped away doing the 'right things' reading and practising everything I can get my hands on.

A coach, a good one, will see your potential from results and lay out a plan that will test you to your boundaries bringing you further than you ever thought you could go.

I'm learning to suffer properly and realise that the half assed efforts I've made in previous years training, while I felt good about them, they weren't anyway near what I'm capable of.

Yeah, watch out CW, I'm gunning for you!!

(Again)

tunney

mossym wrote: »

Meah, threads like this always go a long way to convincing me that despite enjoying training to my own beat I'd do so much better on a coached plan

If you enjoy training that is the main thing!! If you enjoy it you will do it, get some basic structure in and you will fly!

mossym

Cheers Sean now you'll have me looking at coaches

sconhome

mossym wrote: »

Cheers Sean now you'll have me looking at coaches

There's a couple of lads I know who would be well worth running coaching ideals by. If you need help finding a coach that suits you I'm sure they would be happy to advise. Give me a shout PM / Twitter / Facebook / Pinterest / Google+ or just plain old ring me!!

BTH

tunney wrote: »

Heard that you were part of the Big Orange Cloud team next year. Rumour has it that its a team designed to promote racing in darkness and away from sunlight.

Awesome new sponsor

bryangiggsy

Plan was to take 4 full weeks after lough key but getting itchy feet and feeling well rested so may do a few unstructured sessions next week.

Mon Mod Swim/ long easy Run
Tue Easy turbo
Wed Hard swim
Thurs Mod Run/ Extremely hard turbo
Fri Easy Swim
Sat/Sun Outdoor long bike & Hard run/race (interchangeable days)

Recovery days will be days off after drinking

Sleep min 7.5hrs a night (10.30-6am)

roseybear

bryangiggsy wrote: »

Plan was to take 4 full weeks after lough key but getting itchy feet and feeling well rested so may do a few unstructured sessions next week.

Mon Mod Swim/ long easy Run
Tue Easy turbo
Wed Hard swim
Thurs Mod Run/ Extremely hard turbo
Fri Easy Swim
Sat/Sun Outdoor long bike & Hard run/race (interchangeable days)

Recovery days will be days off after drinking

Sleep min 7.5hrs a night (10.30-6am)

LOVE that recovery days plan

Bambaata

Oh bring on Winter! Ive not yet done my 2013 A race!!

Ill be taking 2 weeks off of little or nothing after Saturday week, then 2 to 3 weeks unstructured where ill do something everyday, put in some intensity whenever i feel like it (none if i feel like it) and get back to structured sessions by start of November. One key thing is i am going to maintain swimming at the level im at now as i finally have my times/100 where i want them to stay and get better for next year, i find it takes me an age to get that back if i neglect it!

Ive no set plans for 2014 yet though so that can change things. Toying with a top 10 NS type goal as i dont see myself racing abroad next year.

littlemsfickle

tunney wrote: »

Heard that you were part of the Big Orange Cloud team next year. Rumour has it that its a team designed to promote racing in darkness and away from sunlight.

Are you actually joining B2R?

BTH

littlemsfickle wrote: »

Are you actually joining B2R?

Who, Tunney or me? Either way the answer is no. I'm moving to Galway (well, my wife is, I hope to be following her soon), so the B2R setup of compulsory attendance at training sessions would be a little time consuming.

tunney

BTH wrote: »

Who, Tunney or me? Either way the answer is no. I'm moving to Galway (well, my wife is, I hope to be following her soon), so the B2R setup of compulsory attendance at training sessions would be a little time consuming.

And I don't fit in the endless pool.

king size mars bar

I started back this week , dont do tri i do duathlons and so my season starts in jan and normally i do my last race in june/july, mainly short distances my longest this year was 5/20/5. This year was my second year doing them and i did twice as many races as in my first year, really enjoy it and love the buzz i get during and after the races. Anyway i hope to train 4/5 times a week over the winter and work a bit more on my core.
Plan is
M Bootcamp circuits and core
T Chill
W Bootcamp
T Run
F Long run
Sat or Sun or both Cycle
During the course of say late nov early dec i will prob drop a core class and get in some running or cycling, I also hope to add in a lot more streching over the winter, maybe a bit of the yoga!
As you can see i'm not a pro or anything of the sort but thats my 2pence worth. Anyway best of luck to all with thier winter training and good luck for 2014!

shotgunmcos

15 minute challenge anyone?

bryangiggsy

BTH wrote: »

Who, Tunney or me? Either way the answer is no. I'm moving to Galway (well, my wife is, I hope to be following her soon), so the B2R setup of compulsory attendance at training sessions would be a little time consuming.

So Euge will you be joining a club out West or sticking with ur crowd ?

If_Only

mossym wrote: »

Cheers Sean now you'll have me looking at coaches

Mossym your location shows Killaloe so this might be of interest to you.

http://www.gotri.ie/

The basic weekly sessions will look something like this …
Mon- am swim: pm turbo – Snc <
Tuesday pm run group – Shannon- limerick – possibly killaloe
Wednesday am swim pm turbo/run group -
Thursday am swim pm ?
Friday am swim pm turbo core
Saturday am swim am run (every second weekend sat run to cratloe)
Sunday am bike session


* I am a member of GoTri .

BTH

bryangiggsy wrote: »

So Euge will you be joining a club out West or sticking with ur crowd ?

That's still to be confirmed, so I'm holding off on saying anything for now. :pac: :cool:

pgibbo

BTH wrote: »

That's still to be confirmed, so I'm holding off on saying anything for now. :pac: :cool:

Contract negotiations are at a critical stage just now :pac:

bryangiggsy

pgibbo wrote: »

Contract negotiations are at a critical stage just now :pac:

Men in black suits spotted outside the club training ground last night

catweazle

BTH wrote: »

That's still to be confirmed, so I'm holding off on saying anything for now. :pac: :cool:

pgibbo wrote: »

Contract negotiations are at a critical stage just now :pac:

Predator already have a top class ginger (shadowman winner) so they will have no need of him. Ronanmac is the king of gingers in Trisport so its just Tri Lakes or Galway Tri for you my friend

BTH

bryangiggsy wrote: »

Men in black suits spotted outside the club training ground last night

Sky Sports news will be first to break the big news :cool:

sconhome

catweazle wrote: »

Predator already have a top class ginger (shadowman winner) so they will have no need of him. Ronanmac is the king of gingers in Trisport so its just Tri Lakes or Galway Tri for you my friend

Unless the Phoenix arises in the West.

ray o

amphkingwest wrote: »

Unless the Phoenix arises in the West.

Or will 3D expand out west??? I think Pulse did that a while ago? Mayo?

BTH

amphkingwest wrote: »

Unless the Phoenix arises in the West.

HA, yeah, and what, get coached by Tunney? And follow him nutrition plan as well?

ray o wrote: »

Or will 3D expand out west??? I think Pulse did that a while ago? Mayo?

All will be revealed (as if anyone actually gives a toss)

tunney

BTH wrote: »

HA, yeah, and what, get coached by Tunney? And follow him nutrition plan as well?

I am not one of the club coaches. We have qualified swim coaches, TI and BTF coaches.

My goal for next year will be to put a certain ginger back in his box.

littlemsfickle

tunney wrote: »

I am not one of the club coaches. We have qualified swim coaches, TI and BTF coaches.

My goal for next year will be to put a certain ginger back in his box.

Where are ye based?

mossym

If_Only wrote: »

Mossym your location shows Killaloe so this might be of interest to you.

http://www.gotri.ie/

The basic weekly sessions will look something like this …
Mon- am swim: pm turbo – Snc <
Tuesday pm run group – Shannon- limerick – possibly killaloe
Wednesday am swim pm turbo/run group -
Thursday am swim pm ?
Friday am swim pm turbo core
Saturday am swim am run (every second weekend sat run to cratloe)
Sunday am bike session


* I am a member of GoTri .

cheers for that. have looked at go tri a good few times as they are so close. My only issue is family commitments means i train at certain times(lunchtimes, after the little one goes to bed), and i couldn't commit to all those sessions, i;d need the option of converting at least half those to personal sessions.

sconhome

ray o wrote: »

Or will 3D expand out west??? I think Pulse did that a while ago? Mayo?

Yep changed to Westport Tri Club last year or was it 2011? One or the other. Was Pulse West in 2010 anyway.

Kurt Godel

Bambaata wrote: »

One key thing is i am going to maintain swimming at the level im at now as i finally have my times/100 where i want them to stay and get better for next year, i find it takes me an age to get that back if i neglect it!

What do you reckon it takes to maintain swim form over winter, 3 sessions a week? I find any less and I start going backwards. 4 sessions and I see improvements (but that 4th is usually time taken from somewhere else that suffers)

Daz1214

Starting back on the 7th of next month but have no idea whats in store for me

I believe its a lot of swimming, gym and core

griffin100

Kurt Godel wrote: »

What do you reckon it takes to maintain swim form over winter, 3 sessions a week? I find any less and I start going backwards. 4 sessions and I see improvements (but that 4th is usually time taken from somewhere else that suffers)

For me 3 sessions per week are needed to keep good form; I'd take 3 well structured short sessions over two longer ones. If i can manage 3 seasions I try for 1 x technique work; 1 x speed work; and 1 x endurance swim. A 4th session really gives benefits IMO but like you say potentially at the expense of other training.

mirrormatrix

griffin100 wrote: »

For me 3 sessions per week are needed to keep good form

Yikes. Where do you find the time? I think I did 3 sessions one week in June this year... maybe. What do you ramp it up to in summer??

Seriously though, would one session a week be enough to keep your technique together over the winter months? I'm really hoping someone will say yes here so that I can justify my decision to can the training and hit the booze. :rolleyes:

shotgunmcos

Kurt Godel wrote: »

What do you reckon it takes to maintain swim form over winter, 3 sessions a week? I find any less and I start going backwards. 4 sessions and I see improvements (but that 4th is usually time taken from somewhere else that suffers)

1 just to stem the loss of form. Basic maintenance 1*2k tech and 1*2k intervals. 3*3k a week is loads to develop enough for tri. Did me no harm. 4th session a week will improve your swim less than the improvement an extra hour of pain on the turbo will do for your bike split and overall tri position.

Trig1

A bit like Mossym I'm a little lost at the moment..have been training for the last 2 years for tri on my own and have competed in completed many races...I have no structured training plan due to the pattern of my working shift...5 cycle shift...12hr days and 12hr nights across weekends and days and having 4 young kids at home...Just wondering would anyone know of a good (cheap) coach around the Newport/Limerick area that could design a program for me around my needs...Likewise I am thinking of joining a club for next season...my 3 options are ....Limerick tri club (i use U.L. for swims), Boru tri club or GoTri... suggestions?? I live in Newport!

Ceepo

Trig1 wrote: »

A bit like Mossym I'm a little lost at the moment..have been training for the last 2 years for tri on my own and have competed in completed many races...I have no structured training plan due to the pattern of my working shift...5 cycle shift...12hr days and 12hr nights across weekends and days and having 4 young kids at home...Just wondering would anyone know of a good (cheap) coach around the Newport/Limerick area that could design a program for me around my needs...Likewise I am thinking of joining a club for next season...my 3 options are ....Limerick tri club (i use U.L. for swims), Boru tri club or GoTri... suggestions?? I live in Newport!

TI have updated there site to include qualified coaches and the area they are in.
These are level 1 coaches but I know at least 4/5 are level 2 qualified.

BTH

Ceepo wrote: »

TI have updated there site to include qualified coaches and the area they are in.
These are level 1 coaches but I know at least 4/5 are level 2 qualified.

Its also far from a complete list. Most clubs will have a number of qualified coaches. I believe there's about 10in my club alone.